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the top story. the french senate approves an increase in the retirement age while the country's paralyzed by the strikes of workers they say they don't want to pay for mistakes. also from. iraq become the new health the fuel they steal spills into rivers poisoning the populations water supply. the common goal but no common vision while recognizing afghanistan as the world's greatest drug spread russia and the us concentrate on how to deal with. twenty four seventh's dot com next people have always guessed discuss iran's influence in the middle east and whether its popularity is underestimated by some members of the international community the latest edition of crosstalk just moments

away. every month we give you the future we help you understand how we'll get there and what tomorrow brings the best in science and technology from across russia and around the world join us acknowledging update on our jeep. came. along and welcome the cross because i'm peter lavelle as the western powers do their best to isolate the islamic republic of iran itself has demonstrated it remains a key player in the greater middle east and can determine political outcomes in the region is iran's soft power underestimated. can.

still. discuss iran's foreign policy i'm joined by mohammad marandi in town he's a professor at the university of tehran in beirut we have robert fisk he's the middle east correspondent for the independent and in jerusalem we have harold wrote he's an expert on islam and the middle east and a former analyst in the office of the secretary of defense and another member of our crosstalk team here on the hunger gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want there's a little bit of a sound to let delay so let's be a bit patient here professor marandi i'd like to go to you first in western media you hear all the time that iran is isolated isolated and has no friends in the world it is a regime that's under pressure within and without but then again we have the president of the of iran who visits beirut was welcomed by tens of thousands of people very warm welcome we have the sitting prime minister of iraq visiting iran which is you know if you in the scope of history recent history that's very

remarkable we have in iran has a lot of other friends in the region and they're genuine friends so i mean how and i and i phrased this all in soft power how do you see iran's soft power in the region and in making things happen and not happen. iran is definitely. using soft power in the region to enhance its position i think mr a. trip to lebanon was partially a reflection of that. here is and. public is according to polls carried out by americans in the region much more popular than the american president and he is apparently one of the most popular individuals among or our among our people so i think that that is true and i do think that western countries

are underestimate iran's strength in the region iran has very close relations with turkey with iraq as you mentioned. with the tatar pakistan and afghan it government which is closely aligned to the united states so in that sense i think that western countries are miscalculating and misreading the map robert fisk and we would find good do you do you think. a great powerful western leader could go to beirut to get the same kind of reception that the iranian president got. well no i mean obviously as we all know the shear muslims of lebanon are the largest single community in the country they're not the majority of the largest single community and just as when president mohammad hatami came to a less enjoyable welcome from the hezbollah militia guard it's inevitable that when an iranian president comes to lebanon he will receive a very considerable amount of applause it's

a fact of life i think what was happening i mean i watched armored division as he moved through the streets of beirut and indeed went down to qana before he went to bench a burial what was very significant was although it was very carefully a choreographed visit it had been planned out long advance by the iranian diplomats in beirut it was a very clever one for example at one point when he came in from the airport and kept breaking his security rules and shaking hands with people he waved specifically to the palestinians of the boys for barrage in a palestinian refugee camp in beirut now no president not even the president of lebanon had ever done that before and the palestinians responded accordingly here was someone who cared about their injustice and their plight albeit the fact that many palestinians realize as i believe in is the case that i'm a dinner jacket is a crackpot the fact of the matter was that he seemed to care and he reached out

to people in a way that western leaders could not and will not do and you see if a western leader came here if obama for example arrived in beirut and waved to the palestinians of bullshit. i know hell we all sub russia tiller he would be loved for it but he doesn't come to beirut and he would not wave if he came and that is the difference even if you are a crackpot like i am a dinner shared your when on the ground. and i saying i sympathize with people who have suffered injustice and that is the point it's interesting how it is and that's probably if i can extrapolate from what robert's point i mean you look at hasbro law and you look at hamas and the political parties the shia parties in iraq that's one of the reasons why they like the iranian president as well he cares and he cares about what they believe are their legitimate interests and grievances

well i guess i have a rather different view here iran has been on a charm offensive for about thirty one years since the islamic republic was founded because it's shiite and it knows they're the only way they can win the battle and make sure that their type of islam becomes the right type of dislike for the whole muslim world is through a charm offensive to the people of the arab world schizm is never cared for example about jerusalem where i'm sitting right in there but since it is the narrative of the palestinians of the arab world that's why i'm in the job for many before and harming the now adopted they don't care this is simply a charm offensive unfortunately. to win the hearts and minds it really is to take advantage of them so as what happens would be what khomeini said when he

got off the tarmac in one thousand seventy nine in february and he said one of the things he came to correct was the problem which took place fourteen hundred years ago in islam and that is when the shiites lost and what became the sunni's one that's the charm offensive ok for professor marandi. so the iranians really just don't care about your asylum they don't care about palestine. i don't think you'll agree but that's not what i said is i'm doesn't care what i'm saying i'm on repeat . go ahead professor marandi go ahead. i think the fact that ayatollah khomeini has never said any such thing when he entered tehran itself shows that your gas really doesn't know what he was all about if you go and look at the speeches of ayatollah khomeini that go back well before the revolution you'll see that he indeed that was one of the key reasons why he and many of the religious figures were opposed to the shah the speeches are well documented and you can get them on a d.v.d.

i disagree with your guest in beirut obviously ahmadinejad is not a crackpot he's highly intelligent i am not a fan of the president but i think that he is highly misrepresented in the west but i think that his. the fact that he is so popular in the urban on is not merely due to to the shias if you look at the polls carried out just recently a few months ago in the united states by the by a university in the united states you see that he is the third most popular politician in the world among arabs in this poll was carried out in six our countries which are among the countries which governments are least sympathetic towards iran so. again i think that there is a problem here in the staying calm is there let's a military and unfortunately most of the arab world this totalitarian pose don't mean anything because people. say and i will use

a dream because they don't know what i don't know if you look at the polls that were carried out by the americans before the elections in tehran there were three polls carried out by terror free tomorrow the university of maryland and i think it was globe scan the third they were carried out during the campaign and it was clear that mr ahmadinejad was well ahead in any case that as i said i'm not a fan of the president or his or or his opponents but one has to accept reality in that in iran you have elections mr ahmadinejad for various reasons is very pop. just a couple of days ago when he went to this city he stole the election and you know he stole the election that's why there were a lot of oh is that your stereo or you would say that. there are in the corner robert rotberg go right ahead i'm from the arbor day you go right ahead yeah . ok you let the tides wash over for a second look it's true that most of the arab world is totalitarian saudi arabia

jordan egypt because we the west support them we want them to be totalitarian we want them to clear their quote unquote their own people to be on our side. and that's why we hope i was enraged and we wanted to be in a time of day if i lose you will continue in my haze if i major continues a bit more army training smiley's down on my land robert finally in just a moment please rather you lisa made you go to new speaking go ahead thank you i was in iran for the elections and i tell you something i rather fear that i'm a dynegy and won the elections but i don't think he won them by the percentage poll that we were told i think the iranian government lied about his popularity and lied about the supposed unpopularity of the opposition i think he probably won but they wanted to get on a bit and make the humiliation of the losers greater and thus of course the poll became in effect and in reality

a fraud but i think he might have won you know if you were in north to ron i always you agree to people over and i. live in iraq and i just finished whatever in all seconds please can i just have thirty seconds you know you've been here all the time watching and not saying well you know what he cuz you look they were you are struggling when we are. all very much out there. everybody really being on this program are you finish your point i'm robert is your because i please. please finish your point please. ok look if you went outside iran during the elections last year you fund many poor people who clearly did support. whom i do not like personally i think he's a crackpot but i think he probably won the elections but by nothing like the poll figures that we were given by the ministry of islamic guidance quote unquote in iran and that's

a fact you know we have to do with the facts on the ground in the middle east not the facts are found to see whether they be are my dinner jones fantasies or netanyahu fantasies over any body else ok i finished i can close down if you want anybody else could say what they were already going to go to a short break here i really want to a short break and professor marandi you can reply when we come back after a short break we'll continue our discussion on iran's ties to the region stay with our. it's the secret incursion into the country. it's the invasion by means of. tradition language. this thursday complete the beat.

and culture. to think. that the have the danes are still unaware of what's going on in their land still asking what it's like. i don't know if. they're great. on our team. i'm sorry that i had to do this i've been in so much pain. in the past year that i can't take it anymore the stomach and chest pains have been getting worse and no doctor has been able to help me please know that i'll finally be at peace and with no more pain i wish i could have had a life with it was a bit always pictured her being my wife and mother to my kids i love you all see you all in heaven when your time comes i'm going to meet jesus christ.

thousands of u.s. troops in iraq received one of these drugs a drug called lariam and it may have prevented many soldiers from getting sick the question tonight is whether or not soldiers were adequately warned about its rare side effects serious life change and side effects. still. remind you we're talking about iran's recent charm offense. but for let's see what russians think about two rounds nucular program. despite foreign pressure iran seems to be in a strong position during president mahmoud ahmadinejad's visit to beirut he should

rent is ready to assist lebanon whenever it is in need and while iran is expanding ties within the region its nuclear program is still high on their agenda and recently about a son of paul asks citizens what position russia should take if there was a us iranian military conflict thirty eight percent said they countries should take the part of the mid term twenty four percent believe it is better to stand aside and twenty three percent think russia should money were between the two soon its national interests and there are a few who support backing either side in the case of a military conflict peter all right gentlemen let's pick up where we left off. professor marandi you said you want to reply to robert's commentary about the. presidential election recent presidential election in iran and then i would like to talk about iraq go ahead. i think it's important that

robert does acknowledge that the initial did win the elections but i think that his knowledge of the country is limited in fact when he said the ministry of islamic guidance declared the results it had absolutely nothing to do with the ministry it was the ministry of interior which announce the results and most of mr mousavi has fans since and clearly many of my own colleagues and friends have this has have since deserted him because he found absolutely no evidence of fraud anywhere in the country it was a very complex election process six hundred to seven hundred thousand people were involved in mass fraud is not something that can be easily head in and there were offers to have a partial recount ten percent of the votes recounted in any case whether and i also think it's a bit oriental this is say he's a crackpot when most people voted for him because that effectively means that iranians are pretty foolish people i think that he has misrepresented though at times he may say things that people in the west dislike but go but if it's ok i'd

like to point out that again re state what i said earlier and that is that as robert pointed out arab regimes are by and large all despotic and they're pro-american and american support these regimes but if there were elections in these countries you would see many governments in the region that have similar views to that of the government of iran ok heralded on whether your friend the new jerusalem except that or not if you want any comment on this please go right ahead here on news wire here go ahead may have may i please comment on this. ok i lived through i was going to university in northeastern iran during the previous revolution and i watched public opinion change in iran they have a very fine sense of knowing where power is and you can and first of all for the election results which were known very clearly very quickly after the election is close much better than the united states and iran

clearly has a much more sophisticated electoral counting system than the united states and i commend iran on that excuse me that's the second of all what i watched. and i was there to study she is an excuse me may i finish finish harold please what i what i watched very simply was that they knew how to go over power was. and that is why people in the end voted or didn't voted for judge we have no way of knowing hundreds of thousands if we are going to answer to this. pollution. excuse me and your people there are no salt on your people that you are supporting you were the ones who were putting down and then there is in your lazio's they were like it was no use a poor country is totalitarian excuse me that's all right it's only fair to say the

same all right gentlemen gentlemen let's. examine three robert think that robert i'd like to go to robert now robert if there's not going to ask you because in this whole observer ok let me start a new troops of ado here between israel and iran i don't think anyone would ever call you let me know robert let's change the subject as we're not going to go anywhere with this issue here ok let's talk about iraq ok we have actually you i've got one thing to say excuse me well professor marandi we have plenty of crackpots in the west for example bellus kone and instead of being would be war criminals like perhaps the president of iran we have a real war criminal in the british isles called the former prime minister tony blair we've all got our war criminals and and crackpots but we have to deal with realities but you want to talk about iraq i would just if you would you say straightaway i think it is you're spot on about going to iraq because iran has won

the iraq war and i don't think there's anyone on this program who would honestly this is an area ok all right let's gentlemen let's go i change it there's no here i would immediately i know where we have to move on ok i want to talk about iraq here we have a sitting prime minister of iraq like american laundry to me. yes ok i remember that from another program iran robert. but if i go to professor marandi and kerry mark did. did in rann win the election in iraq seven months after the last vote was cast because after all what the americans did in the legal war in iraq and we have to run and we have politicians going to run looking for blessings i mean the americans really must be well i mean the whole region must be just and arjen trying to think about what the americans really want to achieve there because now we have basically a pro reigning regime in iran well i i would disagree somewhat

like. him or anybody else go ahead or he can interrupt me if he likes i'll interrupt him too but i think that iranians would think that. it's the new iraqi government that the current iraqi government is right is a good thing for iran in the sense that they do have close relations with a country but at the same time the iranians were very much opposed to the american invasion of the country in the first place and the iranians believe that invasion and occupation were illegitimate but also it's natural for iran to want a neighbor which has a good relationship with it but the same is true with afghanistan the government in afghanistan is led by a president who is very close to the united states but iran's relationship with the with i with afghan with the afghani president and the afghani government is quite good so i think that it's or it's normal and i don't think that the iranians or the

current iraqi government will see the elections as a victory for iran i think it would be seen as an election victory for the majority of iraqis despite the shortcomings in the the despite the fact that there's huge sectarian problems in iraq which the united states caused by the way when it played off the one saying they gets another one race against another a few years ago when they invaded the country for its own short term gains ok harold you want to jump in there go ahead. sure i am i was part of the american operation in liberating iraq i can tell you that there is no doubt that a lot of iraqis show it's felt enormously oppressed by saddam's government as did even some sunnies but i can also tell you that from my own experiences and this is talking with both religious leaders political leaders whatever their fear is that shiites have in iraq of iran because iran is an empire and they are constantly

trying to take over other places and that's what the shiites of iraq by and large were afraid of they want to be free they don't want their lives to be dictated by iran or anybody else and that is the basic problem here ok robert i mean most of surprise we hear the word empire mean the only empire that i can think of in the region is the american empire right now i mean in over the i was going to say i was going to say same thing look you know if iran is an empire what other countries does he control i'm sure the americans would play may be lebanon but i don't control those alledged there's a simple answer iran isn't even fifty percent persian. oh my run is all the sort of thing and there's a scene here where we're doing is we're doing this are angels the americans do we're going into ethnicity again you know we call these maps don't we draw the map

of iraq the shiites are at the bottom the sun is in the middle and the kurds at the top it we draw the same maps of lebanon the shiites are at the bottom again of course and then they're in the east and then the maronites are in beirut they're more maronites in that crude and sun is an alawite scene and what we never draw maps of washington black and white religion not religion of races we never draw maps of birmingham in england you know muslim and non muslim but we draw all these maps of the middle east because we want to remind these people of how different they are from each other and the fact of the matter is iran is not an image like to be excuse me as an american and then hundreds of years ago excuse me as i'm really i don't know what the oriental year is for the american government to be a sectarian problem what we need this is hopeless what we need to do is to see the middle east as a historical interest and frankly to stop interfering in it you know when it comes to the end of the day we always arrive we westerners we're going to liberate the

people we're going to free them from injustice from dictators blah blah blah and we always arrive with our apache helicopters and our you know our a one and one abrams tanks and our swords and our horses and so on and what we do not do in the middle east is bring the people to justice which is why i believe we should send all our doctors all our bridge builders all our mathematicians or rather teachers to the middle east if they invite us but not our soldiers and that is the core element of the whole thing it was going to marry robert yes in terms of iraq you mean there's a was going on here i'd like to give here we're going to be running out of time here like to give harold the last word go ahead harold we are indeed. excuse me the fact the matter is that americans are if you want to at the very best there we are . reluctant imperialist we go and then people get mad when we want to leave we don't want to leave our people don't says we don't want to stay there are people don't want to stay there i was just. one of the think iraq is the only arab country

today where people can have this questions and they don't end up killed when they don't agree with the government there is inferior there are hundreds and hundreds of newspapers in iraq today not official government is an official government that their news stations their team is very and this is a freedom that people bestowed on the first day we could easily. say easily by this look at how to end it here many thanks to my guest today into ranbir and jerusalem and thanks to our viewers for watching here's an arche see you next time and remember i'll start with. you.