she's told stories in the week to the pension bell the french senate passes a bitterly contested law to raise the retirement age from sixty to sixty two after days of nationwide strikes including locate the boy recliner reason which led to fuel shortages across the country the pano but by the way it is and president sarkozy's radical plan is next week but you don't say it's not time consistence right. rushing to do us agree afghanistan is the world's greatest now paul sixty minutes but there's no sense that when the to announce a call but it also is demanding more action from nato in kolkata trafficking as russia is the number one victim of the are going to trial this deluge. the end of the russian republic of governor dean about three of these have captured two militants among at least ten have been surrounded and then just used by at least one policeman and one gunmen have already died in the operation targeting the car

down while the truck with explosives was recovered nearby. right now while they western powers is seeking iran's isolation of peaceful about learn his guests discuss the country's role in the middle east and whether it's underestimated the role of the sleeves up for some cutting throats debate. and you can. follow and welcome the cross because i'm peter lavelle as the western powers do their best to isolate the islamic republic iran itself has demonstrated it remains

a key player in the greater middle east and can determine political outcomes in the region is iran's soft power underestimated. can. you discuss iran's foreign policy i'm joined by mohammad marandi in town he's a professor at the university of tehran in beirut we have robert fisk he's the middle east correspondent for the independent and in jerusalem we have harold wrote he's an expert on islam and the middle east and a former analyst in the office of the secretary of defense and another member of our cross-talk team here on the hunger gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want there's a little bit of a sound to let delay so let's be a bit patient here professor marandi i'd like to go to you first in western media you hear all the time that iran is isolated isolated and has no friends in the world it is a regime that's under pressure within and without but then again we have the president of the of iran who visits beirut was welcomed by tens of thousands of

people very warm welcome we have the sitting prime minister of iraq visiting iran which is you know if you in the scope of history recent history that's very remarkable we have in iran has a lot of other friends in the region their genuine friends so i mean how and when i phrase this all in soft power how do you see iran's soft power in the region and in making things happen and not happen. iran is definitely. using soft power in the region to enhance its position i think mr ahmadinejad's trip to lebanon was partially a reflection of that. here is and. public is according to polls carried out by americans in the region much more popular than the american president and he is apparently one of the most popular individuals among.

among arab people so i think that that is true and i do think that western countries are underestimate iran's strength in the region iran has very close relations with turkey with iraq as you mentioned. with the tatar pakistan and afghan it government which is closely aligned to the united states so in that sense i think that western countries are miscalculating and misreading the map robert fisk in beautifying go to you do you think you know a great powerful western leader could go to beirut and get the same kind of reception that the iranian president got. well no i mean obviously as we all know the sheer muslims of lebanon are the largest single community in the country they're not the majority of the largest single community and just as when president mohammad hatami came to

a less enjoyable welcome from the hezbollah guard it's inevitable that when an iranian president comes to lebanon he will receive a very considerable amount of applause it's a fact of life i think what was happening i mean i watched. it as he moved through the streets of beirut and indeed went down to qana before he went to bench a burial what was very significant was although it was very carefully a choreographed visit it had been planned out long advance by the iranian diplomats in beirut it was a very clever one for example at one point when he came in from the airport and kept breaking his security rules and shaking hands with people he waives specifically to the palestinians of the boys for barrage in a palestinian refugee camp in beirut now no president not even the president of lebanon had ever done that before and the palestinians responded accordingly here

was someone who cared about their injustice and their plight albeit the fact that many palestinians realize as i believe in is the case that i'm a dinner jacket is a crackpot the fact of the matter was that he seemed to care and he reached out to people in a way that western leaders could not and will not do and you see if a western leader came here if obama for example arrived in beirut and waved to the palestinians of bull's eye but i know how we all serve russia tiller he would be loved for it but he doesn't come to beirut and he would not wave if he came and that is the difference even if you are a crackpot like i am a dinner shared your when on the ground. and i saying i sympathize with people who have suffered injustice and that is the point it's interesting you know and that's probably if i can extrapolate from what robert's point i mean you look at hezbollah and you look at hamas and the political parties the shia parties in iraq that's one

of the reasons why they like the iranian president as well he cares and he cares about what they believe are their legitimate interests and grievances well i guess i have a rather different view here iran has been on a charm offensive for about thirty one years since the islamic republic was founded because it's shiite and it knows they're the only way they can win the battle and make sure that their type of islam becomes the right type of islam for the whole muslim world is through a charm offensive to the people of the arab world she is an is never cared for example about jerusalem where i'm sitting right in there but since it is the narrative of the palestinians of the arab world that's why i'm in the job for many before and calming the now adopted they don't care this is simply

a charm offensive unfortunately. to win hearts and minds it really is to take advantage of them so as what happens would be what khomeini said when he got off the tarmac in one thousand nine hundred ninety nine and furthermore he said one of the things he came to correct was the problem which took place fourteen hundred years ago in islam and that is when the shiites lost and what became the sunnis one that's the charm offensive ok for professor marandi. so the iranians really just don't care about your asylum they don't care about palestine is i don't think you'll agree but that's not what i said is i'm doesn't care what i'm saying i'm on repeat. go ahead professor marandi go ahead. i think the fact that ayatollah khomeini is never said any such thing when he entered tehran itself shows that your gas really doesn't know what he was all about if you go and look at the speeches of

ayatollah khomeini that go back well before the revolution you'll see that he indeed that was one of the key reasons why he and many of the religious figures were opposed to the shah the speeches are well documented and you can get them on a d.v.d. i disagree with your guest in beirut obviously ahmadinejad is not a crackpot he's highly intelligent i am not a fan of the president but i think that he is highly misrepresented in the west but i think that his. the fact that he is so popular in the urban on is not merely due to to the shias if you look at the polls carried out just recently a few months ago in the united states by the by university in the united states you'll see that he is the third most popular politician in the world among arabs in this poll was carried out in six our countries which are among the countries which governments are least sympathetic towards iran so. again i think that there is

a problem here in the struggle is that well it's a very lazy and unfortunately most of the arab world this totalitarian pose don't mean anything because people. say and i will use a dream because they don't know what i don't know if you look at the polls that were carried out by the americans before the elections in tehran there were three polls carried out by terror free tomorrow the university of maryland and i think it was globe scan the third they were carried out during the campaign and it was clear that mr ahmadinejad was well ahead in any case that as i said i'm not a fan of the president or his or or his opponents but one has to accept reality in that in iran you have elections mr ahmadinejad for various reasons is because very pop. just a couple of days ago when he went to this city he stole the election and you know he stole the election that's why they were out of all our eyes and i understand why you would say that. there are in the corner robert robert

go right ahead i'm from the arbor day you go right ahead yeah. ok you let the tides wash over for a second look it's true that most of the arab world is trying to tell the cerium saudi arabia jordan egypt because we the west support them we want them to be totalitarian we want them to conclude their quote unquote their own people to be on our side. and that's true we hope i was enraged and we wanted to you know if i may finally just continuing my maze if i may just continues a bit you are a change my ways down the line robert finally in just a moment please roger you lisa made you get in you speaking go ahead thank you i was in iran for the elections and i tell you something i rather fear that i'm a dynegy and won the elections but i don't think he won them by the percentage poll that we were told i think the iranian government lied about his popularity and loyd

about the supposed unpopularity of the opposition i think he probably won but they wanted to get on a bit and make the humiliation of the losers greater and thus of course the poll became in effect and in reality a fraud but i think he might have won you know if you were in north to ron i don't know if you agree to people over and i. live in iraq and i just finished whatever in one seconds please can i just have thirty seconds you know you've been here all the time what you say when you know what he cuz you look they were you asked to lead one to be i mean maybe try again all reach out there. everybody really being on this program or you know finish your point i'm robert leisure because i please cite please finish your point please. ok look if you went outside iran during the elections last year your son many poor people who clearly did support. whom i do not like personally i think he's

a crackpot but i think he probably won the elections but by nothing like the poll figures that we were given by the ministry of islamic guidance quote unquote in iran and that's a fact you know we have to do with the facts on the ground in the middle east not the facts of fantasy whether they be on my dinner time fantasies or netanyahu fantasy is over any body else ok i finished i can close down if you want anybody else come on say what they were all right we're going to go to a short break here i really want to a short break and professor marandi you can reply when we come back after a short break we'll continue our discussion about iran's ties to the region stay with our. hungry for the full story we've got it from. the biggest issues get

a human voice ceased to face with the news makers. like millions of americans have lost thousands of dollars in retirement funds and i haven't had as bad as many that's not just about there it's about me to. say i. need you. now. since this is my film i get the last word. this financial crisis will not be turned off like a light sleep. dear mom i'm sorry that i had to do this i've been in so much pain in the past year that i

can't take it anymore the stomach and chest pains have been getting worse and no doctor has been able to help me please know that i'll finally be at peace and with no more pain i wish i could have had a life with it was a bit always pictured her being my wife and mother to my kids i love you all see you all in heaven when your time comes i'm going to meet jesus christ. thousands of u.s. troops in iraq received one of these drugs a drug called lariam and it may have prevented many soldiers from getting sick the question tonight is whether or not soldiers were adequately warned about its rare side effects serious life change and side effects.

remind you we're talking about iran's recent charm offense. but for let's see what russians think about two rounds nucular program. despite foreign pressure iran seems to be in a strong position during president mahmoud ahmadinejad's visit to beirut he should rent is ready to assist lebanon whenever it is in need and while iran is expanding ties within the region its nuclear program is still high on their agenda and recently about a son of paul asks citizens what position russia should take if there was a us iranian military conflict thirty eight percent said they countries should take the part of the middy term twenty four percent believe it is better to stand aside and twenty three percent think russia should learn who are between the two soon its

national interests and there are a few who support banking either side in the case of a military conflict peter all right gentlemen let's pick up where we left off. professor marandi you said you want to reply to robert's commentary about the presidential election recent presidential election in iran and then i would like to talk about iraq go ahead. i think it's important that robert does acknowledge that the initial did win the elections but i think that his knowledge of the country is limited in fact when he said the ministry of islamic guidance declared the results it had absolutely nothing to do with the ministry it was the ministry of interior which announce the results and most of mr mousavi as fans have since and clued in many of my own colleagues and friends have this have since deserted him because he found absolutely no evidence of fraud anywhere in the country it was a very complex election process six hundred to seven hundred thousand people were

involved in mass fraud is not something that can be easily head in and there were offers to have a partial recount ten percent of the votes recounted in any case whether well and i also think it's a bit oriental this is say he's a crackpot when most people voted for him because that effectively means that iranians are pretty foolish people i think that he is misrepresented though at times he may say things that people in the west dislike but go but if it's ok i'd like to point out that again re state what i said earlier and that is that as robert pointed out arab regimes are by and large all despotic and they're pro-american and the americans support these regimes but if there were elections in these countries you would see many governments in the region that have similar views to that of the government of iran ok heralded i was that your friend the new jerusalem except i don't know if you mean a comment on this please go right ahead carol that's why i'm here go ahead may have may i please comment on this. ok i lived through i was going to university in

northeastern iran during the previous revolution and i watched public opinion change in iran they have a very fine sense of knowing where power is and you can and first of all for the election results which were known very clearly very quickly after the election is close much better than the united states and iran clearly has a much more sophisticated electoral counting system than the united states and i commend iran on that excuse me that second of all what i watched in meditation. and i was there to study she is an excuse me may i finish finish harold please what i what i watched very simply was that they knew how to go over power was. and that is why people in the end voted or didn't voted for we have no way of know what

hundreds of thousands are really going to have to answer to this holiday releases aleutian iran may still make of this. excuse me and your people are never sold on your people that you are supporting you were the ones who were putting down and then tears in your lazio's they were like it was no use a poor country is totalitarian you are excuse me i live that's all right it's only fair to say this all right gentlemen gentlemen let's move. robert think that robert i'd like to go to robert now robert if there's i'm going to ask you just this whole observer ok let me start a new troops of ado here between israel and iran all right i don't think anyone would ever call you let me know robert let's change the subject as we're not going to go anywhere with this issue here ok let's talk about iraq ok we had actually you i've got one thing to say we promise not to excuse me well professor marandi we

have plenty of crackpots in the west for example. and instead of being would be war criminals like perhaps the president of iran we have a real war criminal in the british isles called the former prime minister tony blair we've all got our war criminals on and crackpots but we have to deal with realities but you want to talk about iraq if you will you say straight away i think it is you're spot on about going to iraq because iran has won the iraq war and i don't think there's anyone on this program who would honestly is in aruba ok all right let's gentlemen let's go i change it there's no way i would likely i know where we have to move on ok i want to talk about iraq here we have a sitting prime minister in iraq yes i can remember laundry to. remember that from another program iran robert. but if i go to professor marandi and kerry mark did. did in iran win the election in iraq seven months after the last vote was cast

because after all what the americans did in the legal war in iraq and we have to run and we have politicians going to run looking for blessings i mean the americans really must be well i mean the whole region must be just and arjen trying to think about what the americans really want to achieve there because now we have basically a pro reigning regime in iran well i i would also i would disagree somewhat like. him or anybody else to go ahead well he can interrupt me if he likes i'll interrupt him too but i think that iranians would think that. it's the new iraqi government that the current iraqi government is right is a good thing for iran in the sense that they do have close relations with the country but at the same time the iranians were very much opposed to the american invasion of the country in the first place and the iranians believe that invasion and occupation were illegitimate but also it's natural for iran to want

a neighbor one which has a good relationship with it but the same is true with afghanistan the government in afghanistan is led by a passion president who is very close to the united states but iran's relationship with the with i with afghan with the afghani president and the afghani government is quite good so i think that it's or it's normal and i don't think that the iranians or the current iraqi government would see the elections as a victory for iran i think it would be seen as an election victory for the majority of iraqis despite the shortcomings and the the despite the fact that there's huge sectarian problems in iraq which the united states caused by the way when it played after one cent against another one race against another a few years ago when we invaded the country for its own short term gains ok harold you want to jump in there go ahead. sure i am i was part of the american operation in liberating iraq i can tell you that there is no doubt that

a lot of iraqi shiites felt enormously oppressed by saddam's government as did even some so nice but i can also tell you that from my own experiences and this is talking with both religious leaders political leaders whatever their fear is that shiites have in iraq of iran because iran is an empire and they are constantly trying to take over other places and that's what the shiites of iraq by and large were afraid of they want to be free they don't want their lives to be dictated by iran or anybody else and that is the basic problem here ok robert i mean most of surprise we hear the word empire i mean the only empire that i can think of in the region is the american empire right now i mean in over the well i was i was going to say i was going to say the same thing look you know

if iran is an empire what other countries does he control i'm sure the americans would play may be lebanon but i don't control those alledged there's a simple answer iran isn't even fifty percent persian. oh my run is all these services thing and there's a scene here where we're doing is we're doing the sorry it was the americans do we're going into ethnicity again you know we call these maps don't we draw the map of iraq the shiites are at the bottom the sun is in the middle and the kurds have the top bit we draw the same maps of lebanon the shiites are at the bottom again of course and then they're in the east and then the maronites are in beirut they're more maronites in fact true and sunni is an alawite scene and what we never draw maps of washington black and white religion not religion of races we never draw maps of birmingham in england you know muslim and non muslim but we draw all these maps of the middle east because we want to remind these people of how different they are from each other and the fact of the matter is iran is not an image like to

be excuse me as an american and then hundreds of years ago excuse me years ago when really you know now one of the oriental years for the american government to be a sectarian problem what we need this is hopeless what we need to do is to see the middle east as a historical interest and frankly to stop interfering in it you know when it comes to the end of the day we always arrive we westerners we're going to liberate the people we're going to free them from injustice from dictators blah blah blah and we always arrive with our apache helicopters and our you know our a one and one abrams tanks and our swords and our horses and so on and what we do not do in the middle east is bring the people to justice which is why i believe we should send all our doctors all our bridge builders all our mathematicians all raw teachers to the middle east if they invite us but not our soldiers and that is the core element of the whole thing. yes in terms of iraq you mean there's a once

a year i'd like to give here we're going to be running out of time here and i could give harold the last word go ahead harold we are indeed you know. excuse me the fact the matter is that americans are if you want to at the very best there we are . reluctant imperialist we go and then people get mad when we want to leave we don't want to leave our people don't says we don't want to stay there are people don't want to stay there i was just. one of the think iraq is the only arab country today where people can have this questions and they don't end up killed when they don't agree with the government there is in fear there are hundreds and hundreds of newspapers in iraq today not official government is an official government that their news stations their team is there and this is a freedom that people bestow which will face a very nice time we could easily do this hour is easily by this is going to have to end it here many thanks to my guest today and to rand barrow ten jerusalem.