hello again welcome to spotlight the show ati. today my guest in the studio is philip out. russia has been trying to improve the image of its higher education system in the world in particular it has started to question the efficiency of the most used university rankings since finding some of them rather subjective are these claims justified and why don't we have a rating that would suit all who are asking philip out about who is the director of the center for international higher education at boston college. many world universities have an elite reputation but many more smaller and less known establishment therefore less prestigious nevertheless with higher education being pretty expensive in russia which many justifiable the growing number of students are going to regional establishments the russian government has become more

concerned about reforming its higher education system to make it fit into a pan-european structure it will allow students and teachers to become mobile and make the transfer of knowledge less problematic but as applied sciences get more investment some feel that the traditional theoretical side of fundamental science may shrink and the picture is true. welcome to the show thank you thank you very much for being with us well first of all how come that the moscow state university is the only uni in russia that's rated in the show high rating and it's in the seventy six position well the shanghai rankings which are pretty objective but they only measure certain kinds of research and they only measure citations and the major western recognized international journals. they also measure how many nobel prize winners have been

educated at the university or especially the faculty and they add these all up and that's where moscow state university came out so it's nobody's fault since there's so you think good this is fair this is fair it's transparent it's objective . but it measures only one small aspect of what a university does russian universities i find with the place they occupy in world rankings and question the criteria used by western rating agencies spotlights to me that i will have more. novice sullivan game this year's nobel prize winners both graduated from the moscow institute of physics and technology but you want to find it on the list the world's top universities russia's higher education officials going the country is under represented in international university

rankings it's usually only the moscow state university which makes it through to the top one hundred and then it's down at the bottom up illest the major russian university has begun question and the criteria used for the ratings it says the data used in the surveys is not always reliable numbers that it will mean we point out a mistake one of the region agencies and after they have been corrected we were up fifty points because of just one mistake which means there must be always you're right it's good for a university to lodge an appeal. to moscow state universities doing a number of unique things in one choose satellites into outer space and possesses a supercomputer able to make five hundred trillion operations a second but it's quite different things which are taken into account when compiling during games like the number of nobel laureates on the university board

or the number of publications unscientific jools with the moscow state university school in food is a more flexible and objective system of brain gain if russian graduates are welcome to do post-graduate research in major european and american universities the system of higher education in russia cannot be that bad. well as far as i understand these so-called citation index and you mean you mentioned it before is the main instrument to measure the chief scientist does it make english i mean the english language a key to two to success in the world recognition yes it does without any question english is the world language of science today most scientific research is published in journals which are published in english and largely in the united states and the u.k. australia. canada to some extent and so it definitely does privilege and maybe

a little bit unjustifiably so those journal those countries would use english as their first language however the fact is in the world english is the language of science and international scientific communities i suppose including russian one. need to take that into account many world universities strongly emphasized that there are faculty members should publish articles in these journals and even reward them for that in china they do writing in english writing in english and publishing in these recognised international journals korea china some american countries of emphasise. the importance of these international journals because they are objectively. edited and are sort of recognised as the gold standard for scientific research well but if we take into account that there are

dozens of young scientists that write in russian study and russian and maybe maybe they don't know english maybe they just don't care maybe for them it's more important to carry out their research than to do the translation so do you think that there are russian universities and high schools institutes that deserve higher rankings that they have today. how i would answer that question is i think there are russian universities were to do excellent scientific work for the russian language community and in that respect to have a national scientific community is very important maybe even the most important thing but if you want to play in the big leagues you have to abide by the rules of the big leagues and russia does not control those those rules neither does china knight of those any country. and it's widely recognized globally almost everywhere that these international journals largely in english not exclusively are the gold

standard and are the ones that get the most of the same problems. and in france is yes true and the french authorities including the present how do they cope with it that they are unhappy. but how they cope with that is they try to get more of their their professors and their scientists to publish in the international journals and so on now i should point out that the times higher education ranking which in my view is the other one which is reasonably objective among the three or four international rankings does measure other things that then the only citations where they measure out whether this should be my next question what are the main criteria you know the times higher education which i think has done a pretty good job of trying to bring in other aspects and maybe the russian higher education system can learn something from what they measure budget they measure.

ph d. numbers on their faculties they measure the output of doctoral doctoral research students they measure internationalization that is how many international students are coming to europe to the particular university. they they measure the amount spent per student and a number of other things and i must say from my brief observations here in russia most of the russian universities that i know anything about are making progress in these areas but when compared to the major western institutions and i think when compared even to the top institutions in china and korea and japan. that they are not spending as much as those others are not investing as much in internationalization of the institutions they have fewer international students on

their campuses and by a number of the measures which are recognized as important they're not doing as well frankly when using this citation index ok i agree that it's very well maybe it's the most important thing but any english magazine scientific magazine published in english is translated into other languages and i think and i think i would guess that at least fifty percent of its readers read it in their own language not in english i mean the entrance ration where at least for them english is a foreign language so do they do they use do they do they really cite the the non english magazines when eason quotation and it's. first of all the top scientific journals we're not talking about popular magazines look at the sun knowledge of science. to. bickley they are not translated i mean they are only in

english and scientific community around the world is expected to read them in english some of them do get translated into some of the bigger languages russian chinese spanish a few others but largely global science in the beginning of the twenty first century is maybe unfortunately an english media. development and it's changed from fifty years ago when there was there when there were more national scientific communities and when for example french and german german was being or very important in scientific research but nowadays english is just recognised as the language of science now but doesn't mean it's the language of intellectual discourse around the world it isn't and it doesn't mean that journals of opinion and of intellectual life and so on. are not in other languages

and many of them as you pointed out are in fact translated around the world in different languages but does that mean that the developing countries and do they really have a capacity to to to be equals the global the global educational marketplace it's a big problem for them and it creates barriers to. increases in the rankings. because they are forced to publish in english not only that but the the the western science english dominated scientific community uses our methodologies as westerners they focus on the kind of science that's relevant to us and which may not be relevant to developing countries or for that matter a developed and important country like russia which has its own scientific traditions says director of the center for international higher education philip

algebra spotlight will be back shortly right after the break will continue its interviews so stay where you are right and. the moments when the world has changed forever. thousands passed to nothing. thousands wounded. and doomed to suffer. it was the first but probably not the last image this weapon. will become. common in the future wealthy british style sun.

spot on the. market why not. why. you know what's really happening to the global economy with mike's concert a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to gaza report on our. welcome back to spotlight time how good of and just a reminder that my guest in the studio today is philip algebra director of the center for international higher education mr about well you mentioned france and

germany who used to be very competitive in higher education what about today our countries are other than english speaking our universities other than english speaking countries still competitive absolutely like in france and germany still some more rounds one of those outside the western ones yes several of the important chinese universities have recently risen up in the rankings by the way i think we emphasize too much the rankings. i do realize that there's a lot of people who are quite critical of them in russia and for fairly good reasons but i think russians and for that matter french and germans who are also upset about the fact that some of their universe their very good universities are not ranking very well worry too much about it my own view is that universities in particular countries should do what they do best and worry about their national

communities function globally but in a way act locally. and what's and what's most important is the people they're training and educating in their own countries so. nonetheless we do function in a global world and universities around the world do compete with one and with with one another for in. national students for grants for foundation support for image for prestige. and in that respect russia is not doing as well as it might and for that matter france and germany and some other countries with very distinguished academic traditions like this country are also not doing as well however in most of those countries in japan in hong kong in mainland china in singapore for as examples their universities are coming up and russia

needs to worry about not only the americans and the canadians and the australians but the universities in those emerging countries to which are investing very heavily i think one of the problems in russia is that there isn't enough sustained investment in the higher education sector particularly the the top class universities in the well known the new national research universe investment as you mentioned is one of the factors that's also. well we now have a chance to see if moscow think that there are enough skilled professionals in the country spotlight's ill anyone that has the details on that. there today i'll try to find out if muscovites think that there are more than enough people in this country what had occasioned on the contrary there is this sort of this was that i think there's a shortage of people with higher education in our country now it's very difficult today to get

a higher education in russia because people have to pay for it it's very expensive and not everybody can afford to do this every month but i think there are plenty of people with higher education in our country however there aren't enough skilled specialists education is corrupt in our country. because. i think there are more than enough people in higher education our country i think our education system should be focused on a workforce that. i think there are many people in russia with higher education at the moment however for the most part this issue cation is humanitarian and i think there is an excess of these people today they are not included in our real sector and that's why our country needs to focus more on an education which can provide for this real sector. out i've got to go if you're going to question our guest. do you think the russian higher education corresponds to the world standards . does it yes or no well if we don't take the ratings which you said we shouldn't

overestimate does it correspond in the last in the know years ago yes or no is it here so now yes and i know it's not enough because russia does some things very well russia actually provides access to its young people kids coming out of high school at one of the highest rates in the world so there are lots of russians despite what some of those people who are actually getting entry to post-secondary institutions so i think russia does pretty well at that russia does less well at the top of the system that has its universities and the rankings are of. some indication of that. doesn't do as well at the very top so all higher education mass higher education systems big ones are kind of like a pyramid with a small elite sector like moscow state university the higher school of economics

here in moscow st petersburg university and others but most of the universities are low or lower in the rankings and i don't know enough to say how russia is doing in terms of quality in the mass system but it is doing pretty well in terms of access in the masses to one of the interviewees was talking about cost generally speaking russian higher education by most global standards is pretty reasonably priced so they shouldn't complain. but the salaries in russia a different to those in the united states of roaring glints out there so so you should comparative to the average south course ok now listen we heard those two nobel prize winners this year who both the firsts all the first interviews that they gave they praised their out in the matter at the university they graduated

from but they're both live and work in england so many russian university graduates go to work abroad now do you think that russia should try to hold them keep them at home or let them go well you have to let them go you have clothes were in a global academic environment and in the old days of trying to keep people know i mean i knew to force them but were trying to create conditions so they stayed where i mean it makes no sense yes. yes russian higher education should create the conditions to keep their best scientists and brains in the country no question about that. when it doesn't compare in terms of the working conditions for the top scientists in terms of the salary structures for the top scientists in terms of the laboratory facilities for the top scientists they will leave. the same thing is true by the way for china china

has the same and japan even japan many of the nobel prize winners who were educated graduated from japanese universities are working in the united states or the united kingdom or canada why salaries are better conditions are better they have more independence of for their scientific work it's very simple we live as part of a global scientific work force today i wish russia. and i hope russia will have the conditions to keep its best scientists in the country only a few something more and my sister in law lives in canada and her little daughter only she's fifteen years old she goes to school and she says that the only kids in canada who really study at school and in the universities are russians indians and chinese are there is just i'm lazy it's not true that i don't think there is some truth to that but i mean everywhere this would be true in the united states as

well immigrants who have a strong educational tradition like the three of their post immigrants but anyway at the three that you mention do well in school no question if you look at who wins the the american spelling bees how little. the limits of spelling their indian kid best of them so yes but it's also true there are a lot of. native canadians are no longer canadians or local americans who go to very good high schools and do very well in university as well. well you mentioned the highest sector of the pyramid we in russia call of the elite education the elite schools colleges the elite universities should be such a thing as elite education and lead students and lead tutoring or no there should be no longer geisha as well it's it's rewarding talent and money

well daddy's money. it is there should be conditions so that bright kids no matter what their economic background or for that matter in some societies racial or ethnic backgrounds have the chance to excel it so happens if you look at any sociology text the rich do better because their parents care about education because they have more money to spend on schools are told reserved so on so they do better than other sections of the society nonetheless. in an inner knowledge society you have to have top institutions you have to have an elite sector and of course the best thing is to have as democratic an elite sector as possible so that the opportunity for advancement is there for everybody not just the ritual we should have the lead but we should call

a democratic like you democratically no doubt. democratic ok getting back to the very beginning about the bad the the rankings the english system should russian universities schools and high schools try to stave elop education in english to rise the international attractiveness of the russians educational system or not that's a very good question only russians can answer that question mark my own view and if you look at a number of non english speaking countries japan korea china. some in latin america there germany even france which has such a strong interest in its own language there are now programs in their universities in english should russia. emulate some of those programs and have some programs in english i think yes but mainly to attract international students

to russia thank you thank you very much the reason i asked is that the russians tried to call their car which used to be called they called it loud it didn't help thank you thank you very much for the weather just a reminder that my guest was director of the center for international higher education philip out of iraq and that's it for now from all of us here will be back until then stay on r.t. and take care thank you for that you've written.

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resort and spa all tied to a hotel while she didn't post a photo of her tone toward the evergreen closer in time to tell you learn desoto tell him i'm positive hard p four points pleasures and i would print certainly the splined in touch with her tell me touch your girl the photo a good girl how would international flood to achieve every green little her toe into. the side effects of the vietnam war are raging on destroying thousands of lives many vietnamese saying no amount of us compensation can give them back their health . and china gets some competition as a bogeyman was washington using the start treaty to make moscow the new scapegoat in town. plus palestinians are marking international day against a wall demanding israel breaks its barrier with a palestinian west bank some locals are making money out of the separate.

question aren't you going to live from moscow those were our top stories now let's take a look at them in more detail the viet nam war may be long over but its deadly legacy still lingers on millions of people were exposed to agent orange a poisonous herbicide used by the u.s. military it killed hundreds of thousands and is still causing birth defects decades after the end of the fighting you may find some of the images from katrina's arms report disturbing. vietnam may be one of the only five socialist states in the world but its economic progress is notable business is booming hirees offices sprout up everywhere and the people have opportunities to improve their lives but that wasn't a vietnamese struggle and not for a natural reasons. but saying all is fair in love and war has been used to justify many military decisions but when during the vietnam war the united states began.