mention a few words about jewish culture labyrinth and people get so upset this is i'm sorry to say it's a form of emotional blackmail. the official. touch from the top story. on the good. video. and r.s.s. feeds now in the palm of your. home in the united kingdom is available in the house bill and. the old way even if. it gets in the millstone hutto some country house today is the bull

tells the remembering the crimean choose to feel. the world the ruben's hotel. six thirty am in moscow good to have you with us here on our t.v. easier headlines russian diplomats finally gain access to businessman victor boot who's just faced a report in the u.s. on arms smuggling charges he claims american officials tried to force him to confess to crimes he didn't commit who was extradited to the u.s. from thailand on tuesday please u.s. secretary of state hillary clinton joins a growing chorus of officials are urging the senate to ratify the start nuclear cuts treaty before republicans gain the upper hand in the legislature relief and

european finance ministers start work on a possible aid package for debt stricken ireland in an effort to restore confidence to the euro zone. next hour on r t algor an avs guest on spotlight is sergei bremmer it's prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal he's in the studio to talk about whether the precedent set by the nuremberg nazi trials remains valid one per one prosecuting today's war criminals stay with us. news today bought a limb says once again flared up. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. china operation through the day.

hello again welcome to spotlight they enter the show on r.t. i'm going off and today my guest is sirius grommets amidst the ruins a world war two legal precedent emerged with the aim of prosecuting those responsible for genocide a special international court consisting of judges from the victorious countries was created to put those defeated on trial the formula was deemed successful

and still exists but what has changed and vesta gating the dreadful crimes today let's ask roberts the prosecutor of the international court for former yugoslavia. trial who was the world's response to nazi atrocities created sixty five years ago the first international tribunal set standards and precedence still adhere to today despite mr churchill's calls to execute leaders without trying them on and insisted on a legal process since then crimes and genocide are subjects dealt with by specially convened international tribunals the latest examples of the international criminal tribunal for rwanda and the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia. who was the brothers welcome to the show thank you thank you very much for being with us where were really glad to have you on spotlight well. first of all. i want you

to comment speaking about the the day sixty fifth anniversary of nuremberg what so important to remember about the nuremberg tribunal today when thirty years why is it important you know the nuremberg tribunal was the first of its kind it was the first international tribunal on route electoral tribunal dealing with important crimes international crimes like crimes against peace war crimes crimes against humanity so it is worth the first one and has played a very important role in the creation in preparation of other tribunals like the international tribunals for the father's love your off or under or even the the i.c.c. international criminal court. their idea of trying nazi leaders had been discussed by the allies even before the second world war was over churchill risible installing spoke about it in tehran in one nine hundred forty three at first the

british prime minister insisted on exit q didn't lead in nazis without a trial it all but a german is defeat this remains your war powers agree don't do foo much of a trial to those responsible for war crimes france was made part of the tribunals nuremberg was chosen as the location for the trial which was symbolic as the city was considered the ceremonial birthplace of the nazi party there was actually a series of trials the first one and the best known was the trial of the twenty four major war criminals deputy fuehrer and he was appointed successor herman gehring been the major defendant the nazi leaders were indicted with crimes against peace war crimes and crimes against humanity most of them needed to the crimes but claimed they were full orders as a result of the trial twelve defendants whose direct involvement in the killing was proven he was sentenced to death by hanging. on the

word it is really. member studied. by lawyers by politicians but for ordinary people do you think it's important to know about it to remember that should we should we teach at school i mean generally at least for sure i mean the nuremberg tribunal is about extreme crimes committed during the second world war and it was the first time that in fact the individual criminal responsibility worse in an international text it was for the first time that in fact being a state representative was not preventing you from being prosecuted so the state of the number tribunal certified that being a head of state would not prevent them from prosecution i think it was a very important signal that the international community cares about its world citizens especially also in relation to the crimes against humanity which are

committed against civilians well some historians claim that the nuremberg trials. really were the victory of justice as they call it yeah and some people doubt its legality one of the reasons to believe that the nuremberg tribunal really was in fact a triumph of justice. you know the opinions of course different on the context in which tribunal has been created and the way it has worked. personally i think that it was. very interesting implementation of international justice. i think international observers agree to say that perhaps not everything was perfect but it was justice it was an important trial it was a trial where the rights of defense were also respected i would say what would have been the alternative what would have been the situation if there was no tribunal

would it have been vengeance would it have been execution so it. clear and it's also easy today to say it's far from perfect but i think it played a very very important role after the word war world war in india with those crimes well of course the guys behind the bombers in nuremberg were the bad guys everybody knows about that but it was well before you as personally do you feel that it was today when we do remember it today was it about the good and the bad the good guys and the bad guys or was it about justice what was more important for you. i think it was about the part justice it was about individual criminal responsibility showing that in fact a war is not conducted by countries but but by individuals to give really a face to the crimes which have been committed so i think it was about justice and you know the entire legal world knows all the evidence which has been presented in

court we all know that it was very largely documented the crimes which have been committed so and you know there has been. different kind of sentences there have been acquittals too so i think this shows that that it was justice and that the principle of law played an important role speaking about the principles of law i read that the principle the main principle the presumption of innocence was has been a very. can you confirm that. do you believe that all of. the accused. defense lawyers who are making their points to have been witnesses heard for the prosecution but also witnesses for the for the defense the defense had large access to to the documentations of course it's far from being perfect you know and i also know the publications on the number of trials you know having no possibility to

appeal a decision only having partial access to the file by the defense lawyers would have been a number of shortcomings some for sure not saying that it was perfect but we have to put ourselves in this situation in the context after the second world war and somebody had to deal with the crimes committed and i think that with all of the justified criticism which is regularly put forward it was justice and it was for sure a better option than vengeance by the victims or or the leaders of the war well absolutely this is another another question connected with with this kind of world war. the holocaust the holocaust deniers do you support the prosecution and putting on trial people who deny the holocaust do you think this this is the right thing to do sixty five years off to to prosecute somebody who has

his own opinion on history. you know it's a tricky question and it's really up to town treats and their parliaments to decide . how they want to deal with the issue for me the most important question is to really inform generations of citizens about what happened i also found it. of course awful if people today are denying but you know it's happening even today with our tribunals tool you know the genocide ensure we need there are. officials in the public were saying we will never recognize that genocide has been committed despite decisions coming out of the i.c.u. and i c j so i think it's mainly or much more a question of education education informing your people about what happened then about new legislation and there i think the nuremberg tribunal as our tribunals has

benefit that they establish a very important database of documentation which clearly establish what happened during those wars. you mentioned. you yourself today what the legacy of the tribe in general for today's existing. law. as i said the number tribunal was the first one between forty five and the ninety's nothing happened really in terms of development of international justice and in ninety three and ninety four with the creation of the talk tribunals for the former guest love you and run that we really entered a new a new step into into this regard and when the whole torso of the city why establish the state of course they were inspired by the. state to it in relation to crimes against humanity in relation to war crimes of course and of

course some additional. crimes were at it like a genocide but also in the jurisprudence during the seventeen years of life time of the tribunal in a number of cases the judges have referred. to the nuremberg jurisprudence in relation to individual criminal responsibility in relation to perpetration so it has played a very important role of course the citywide coming fifty years later and being established by the unite. nations tried to address some of those those criticisms for example the possibility to appeal in certain circumstances as a possibility of having a larger access for the defense to the case and obliging the prosecutor to disclose all old exculpatory material so the defense remembering your day many people keep

asking questions like what should we do not to let. things for which leaders were tried happened again say for example should extremists be punished for their ideas for their intention which are proved in a court. rather than waiting until they commit something awful like genocide like acts against humanity can can we do that can we at least discuss this matter. i think that every every everything must be discussed no limits to discussion of course we have to be careful i'm not in favor of having. of anything i think discussion must be possible different opinions must be possible . but. of course you can only start prosecuting somebody if he's crossing the line if he's entering the field of criminal law and there is up to

come to determine what kind of if hate speech is prohibited if the denial of genocide is a crime under national law but it's really up to two individual countries and societies to decide so if bramber starting to us in the spotlight we will continue this in less than a minute we'll take a short break now stay with us don't go away. so you can feel. comfortable to eat. just.

sitting. and scary these. are. the photos. welcome back to spotlight i'm al gore and often just a reminder that my guest today here is serious brawlers the prosecutor at the

international criminal tribunal for former yugoslavia. welcome once again to the show well speaking about your tribunals for me the slightly i guess the to sticks here saying that among the accused by the i c t y there are thirty three nine bosnian muslims six costs of a obeying the ins and one hundred two thirds. do these figures mean that the i c t y is boris against serbs which you're accused by many journalists. certainly not the tribunal has objective to prosecute those who mean responsibility for crimes committed during the different warm wars in the former yugoslavia as you know there has been a war in which. in bosnia kosovo and the tribunal over a number of years had collected facts in relation to ration those crimes and the

trials which are in place before the judges are reflecting the information which has been collected by by my predecessors investigators and which has been resulted in in total hundred sixty one indictments where still seven trials on going with fourteen if you so the work is not not yet over i really want to stress in this regard that this tribunal is not served it's not going to court it's not it's about individuals about individual criminals principalities about persons who are charged with the worst crimes one can imagine genocide crimes against humanity and war crimes so it's really not at all about populations or countries it's really about individuals you mentioned your predecessors your predecessor ponty a real star of the national prosecution she wrote a book and in her book she accused the albanian rebels and cost of the. grave crime

crimes against the ethnic serbs including illegal trading of human organs well i would ask you have you heard of any any investigations based on the facts and mentioned by carla del ponte her book i mean i have not read the book and i'm also not in a position to comment on the book but of course i'm aware of the facts. facts which have also be partially documented in very fight by my by my office and those informations have been shared with the with the servant authorities where the serbian workings prosecutor today is in charge of this investigation. now a quote from yourself on september twentieth day you said i quote i am not satisfied with serbia's corp in finding and arresting that cold blooded each and hodge and that the government in belgrade must do more and that's that these

were your words quote it has something changed since then what are the chances that these guys will be will be arrested in india. what i have said in fact and that would have been in the last report to security council is that cooperation is mainly to scope. with serbia is in relation to the ongoing cases is in relation to witness protection its relation to access to documents where i've said over the last two years that it's very much business as usual where we have a really good interaction with our counterparts where have been indeed more critical in the last weeks and last month in relation to the fugitive's where we have said that. if after several years now of activities of operations there are no results yet but it's very important to to review the investigative strategy that is important to put more resources on the search yes i've said that serbia can do more needs to do more and i also got the insurance after our last security council

report by our seven counterparts that our code imitations were taken very seriously so i know that several authorities are county working on these recommendations i've seen in the last days a number of operations have been conducted in serbia in this regard and i very much looking forward to my meetings with the intelligence and police services the war crimes. prosecutor but also the political responsible next week in belgrade. tribunals for is. supposed to complete all the hearings in mid two thousand and eleven like next year and by two thousand and thirteen all the appeals should be stopped here well this will be it does that mean that the hunt for the fugitive that we're talking about for laddish and harder is the former serb leader in croatia will be stopped next year and that if needed five then that's it

. no i'm your talk to mystic about the the final dates for the tribunal we will have twice on going until two thousand and twelve and. perhaps even until two thousand and thirteen with appeals going to two thousand and fourteen. it is indeed a problem for us the hunt for the for the fugitives and we have said and repeated many times that the only good and acceptable solution is to have the two remaining fugitives arrested during the current lifetime of the tribunal this is today our number one priority and this is what is expected from victims in vienna. of course there is to interview the possibility that they are not arrested before the closure of the tribunal for this case the security council is currently working on the so-called residual mechanism to take over the remaining functions from a city wide and this was it will make an ism we'll have one of its component

a tribunal component but only to be activated if in the future one of the fifty is arrested and we strongly believe that the signal which is given also by the security council is very very important it means that whenever and wherever the fugitives are rested there will be an international trial they cannot sit out justice and finally justice will be done. whenever. they are rested they will they will never feel safe. until they are learned is that true wherever they are whenever it happens where whenever some officer sees them they will be arrested is that true that's a decision to be taken with security council but it is going in this direction and you know. speaking about the the two fugitives we are looking for and assure authorities are looking for but you know the none arrest of those fugitives would be we also the works of the worst signal for other tribunals you know that there

are other tribunals looking for a number of fugitives and not arresting today really gives the wrong signal and which has a negative impact on international justice for the victims of. course for the victims you know has been. for the first time in my life as i'm concerned earlier this year. and you know i spend one day with we survivors and they told me about their stories about the last of their loved ones and when i ask him what is your priority or what are you expecting the response from everybody was to say we want to see these arrests we want him to face justice we have always said that the best solution would have been to being together before before the judges to have the judges judging about their responsibility together unfortunately for the reasons you know this is not happening but we still. are very hardly pushing

the people in the region our interlocutors in the region but also the international community also send it on many occasions the support by the european union to support the russia for the u.s. is very very important so the international community all those who can have an impact of this in the regions also we have to support our work what can you say as a lawyer about the quality of the judiciary and the former yugoslav countries are they capable of bringing justice themselves without going. there has been a very positive development in the last years you know in the early days when the tribunal was established there were almost no interaction with the judiciary between the traveling judiciary the cooperation between the hague and countries in the region was very vertical the u.n. tribunal was almost a kind of imposing corporation since two thousand and four this changed one of the

reasons being that the security council has asked the tribunal to send all middle and lower ranking cases to the region but also those countries having new governments more modern governments with with new legislations and also with the creation in the three counties of specialized war crimes prosecution offices or or specialized chambers and one development in this regard we consider as a positive since last year we have integrated in our office in the hague prosecutor one from belgrade one from. and one from there working together with my colleagues in the hague because we want to give this clear message it's not about international community against some countries in the in the region it's for sure not being caught it's about individual can responsibility and we prosecutors from

the region and prosecutors in my office we are all exactly the same objective making sure that those who have committed these crimes are punished thank you thank you very much for being with us then just to remind you that my guest in the spotlight today was serious grammars the prosecutor. performer in the stand and that's it for now from all of us here if you have a cell spotlight with you have someone in mind do you want me to interview tomorrow drop me a line at al gore a lot of ad. let's give a shout interactive we'll be back with more until then stay and take care.