power on the run as well we're all doing this together fantastic and that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser and stacy herbert or that my guest alex jones is going to send me an e-mail please do so at kaiser reported r t t v are you until next time this is max kaiser saying by all.

cover again this is on three every check of the headlines that conference they are . new creating new stations dominate talks as russian president dmitry medvedev sits down with is it during encounter. on the sidelines of a key regional summit in azerbaijan and about it said russia will continue helping terror and develop a peaceful atomic program. president obama urges lawmakers on capitol hill not to sidetrack the ratification all they need to all the scots treaty between moscow

and washington. is no higher national security priority for the lame duck session of congress. states or american national security or clearly. there are. also big you ask that ledge guns run of the debate claims american officials try to seduce him into admitting to arms smuggling charges while being extradited from bangkok to washington and insist his not guilty moscow says it will offer diplomatic support to the russian businessman who if convicted could face life behind bars. up next i'll see al gore nerves gaston spotlight is. a prosecutor i think. criminal tribunals and he's in the studio to talk about whether the president said by the nuremberg trials remains a valid one prosecuting today's war criminals. for the

full we've got it for. the biggest issues get a human voice face to face with the news makers. hello again welcome to spotlight they enter the show on r.t. an hour north and today my guest is sirius grommets and mr ruins a world war two legal precedent emerged with the aim of prosecuting those responsible for genocide a special international court consisting of judges from the victorious countries was created to put those defeated on trial the formula was deemed successful and still exists but what has changed in investigating the dreadful crimes today let's ask grammars the prosecutor of the international court for former

yugoslavia. the trial it was the world's response to nazi atrocities created sixty five years ago the first international tribunal set standards and precedents still adhere to today despite calls to execute without trying them on and insisted on a legal process since them crimes and genocide are subjects dealt with by specially convened international tribunal. examples of the international criminal tribunal for rwanda and the international criminal tribunal for the former yugoslavia. grammars welcome to the show thank you thank you very much for being with us where we're really glad to have you on the spot light well. first of all i want you to comment speaking about the the day the sixty fifth. nuremberg what so

important to remember about the nuremberg tribunal today when thirty years why is it important you know the the nuremberg tribunal was the first of its kind it was the first international tribunal on route electoral tribunal dealing with important crimes international crimes like. crimes against peace war crimes crimes against humanity so it is with the first one and has played a very important role in the creation in preparation of other tribunals like the international tribunal for the four of us love your four hundred or even the the i.c.c. international criminal court. their idea of trying nazi leaders has been discussed by the allies even before the second world war was over churchill who is well installing spoke about it in tehran in one nine hundred forty three as first the british prime minister insisted on the exit queue didn't lead in nazis without a trial it all but a german is defeat this remains your world powers agree doing the fool much of the

trial through those responsible for war crimes france was made part of the tribunals nuremberg was chosen as the location for the trial which was symbolic as the city was considered the ceremonial birthplace of the nazi party there was actually a series of trials the first one and the best known was the trial of the twenty four major war criminals deputy fewer and he was appointed successor herman gehring been the major defendant the nazi leaders were indicted with crimes against peace war crimes and crimes against humanity most of them needed to the crimes but claimed they were fully orders as a result of the trial twelve defendants whose direct involvement in the killing was proven was sentenced to death by hanging. it is remembered and studied. by lawyers by politicians but for all. people

do you think it's important to know about it to remember that should we should we teach it's cool i mean generally at least for sure i mean the nuremberg tribunal is about extreme crimes committed during the second world war and it was the first time that in fact the individual criminal responsibility worse in an international text it was for the first time that in fact being a state representative was not preventing you from being prosecuted so the state of the number tribunal certified that being a head of state would not prevent them from prosecution i think it was a very important signal that the international community cares about its world citizens especially also in relation to the crimes against humanity which are committed against civilians well some historians claim that the nuremberg trials. really were the victory of justice as they call it yeah and some people doubt its

legality one of the reasons to believe that nuremberg tribunal really was in fact a triumph of justice. you know the opinions of course different on the context in which tribunal has been created and the way it has worked. personally i think that it was. a very interesting implementation of international justice. i think international observers agree to say that perhaps not everything was perfect but it was justice it was an important trial it was a trial where the rights of defense were also respected i would say what would have been the alternative what would have seen the situation if there was no tribunal would it have been vengeance would it have been execution so it is clear and it's also easy today to say it's far from perfect but i think it played. in a very very important role after the word war world war in india with those crimes

well of course the guys behind the bombers in nuremberg were the bad guys everybody knows about that but it was well before you as personally do you feel that it was today when we do remember it today was it about the good and the bad the good guys and the bad guys or was it about justice what was more important for you. i think it was about part justice it was about individual criminal responsibility showing that in fact a war is not conducted by counties but but by individuals to give really a face to the crimes which have been committed so i think it was about justice and you know the entire legal world knows all the evidence which has been presented in court we all know that it was very largely documented the crimes which have been

committed so and you know there has been. different kind of sentences to have been acquittals too so i think this shows that that it was justice and that the principle of law played an important role speaking about the principles of law i've read that the principle of the main principle the presumption of innocence was has been a very in europe where can you confirm that. do you believe that of all. the accused. defense lawyers who are making their points to have been witnesses heard for the prosecution but also witnesses for the for the defense of the defense had large access to the documentations of course it's far from being perfect you know and i also know that publications on the number of trials you know having no possibility to appeal a decision only having partial access to the file by the defense lawyers would have been a number of shortcomings some for sure not saying that it was perfect but we have

to put ourselves in this situation in the context after the second world war and somebody had to deal with the crimes committed and i think that with all of the justified criticism which is which is regularly put forward it was justice and it was for sure a better option than vengeance by the victims or or the leaders of the war absolutely this is another in a question connected with the world war. the holocaust the holocaust deniers do you support the prosecution putting on trial people who deny the holocaust do you think this this is the right thing to do sixty five years off to to to prosecute somebody who has his own opinion our history. you know it's a tricky question and it's really up to. their parliaments to decide. how they

want to deal with the issue for me the most important question is to really inform generations of citizens about what happened i also found it. of course awful if people today are denying but you know it's happening even today with our tribunals tool you know the genocide in cheer when it's there are. officials in a biblical serbska were saying we will never recognize that genocide has been committed despite decisions coming out of the i.c.u. and i c j so i think it's mainly or much more a question of education education informing your people about what happened then about new legislation and there i think the nuremberg tribunal as our tribunals has benefited they established a very important database of documentation which clearly established what happened during those wars. you mentioned. you know yourself today

what the legacy of the nuremberg trials in general for today's existing. law. as i said the number tribunal was the first one and between forty five and the ninety's nothing happened really in terms of development of international justice and in ninety three and ninety four with the creation of the talk tribunals for the former guest love you and rhonda we really entered a new a new step into into this regard and when the alter of the city why establish the state of course they were inspired by the numeric state to it in relation to crimes against humanity in relation to war crimes of course and of course some additional. crimes were added like

a genocide but also in the jurisprudence during the seventeen years of life time of the tribunal in a number of cases the judges have referred to the to the nuremberg jurisprudence in relation to individual criminal responsibility in relation to perpetration so it has played very important role of course the citywide coming fifty years later and being established by the unite. nation's tried to address some of those those criticisms as for example the possibility to appeal in certain circumstances as a possibility of having a larger access for the defense to the case and obliging the prosecutor to disclose all old exculpatory material so the defense remembering nuremberg today many people keep asking questions like what should we do not to let. things for which nurse leaders were tried happened again say for example should

extremists be punished for their ideas for their intentions which are proved in a court. rather than waiting until they commit something awful genocide like acts against humanity can can we do that can we at least discuss this or not never. i think that every every everything must be discussed to the best be no no limits to the discussion of course we have to be be careful i'm not in favor of having. an off of anything i think discussion must be possible different opinions must be possible. but. of course you can only start prosecuting somebody if he's crossing the line if he's entering the field of criminal law and there is up to come to determine what kind of hate speech is prohibited if the denial of genocide is a crime on

a national law but it's really up to two individual countries and societies to do site so he bremmer starting to us on spotlight we will continue this interview in less than a minute we'll take a short break now stay with us don't go away. culture is that so much i can tell you that you'll already wonderful music world tell a different set i mean we have to be end of the second world war major nazi leaders were put on trial for war there is no doubt such crimes were committed.

in russia. which brighton if you move about song from feinstein. princetown totty dot com. welcome back to spotlight i'm al green of and just a reminder that my guest today here is serious brunner's the prosecutor at the international criminal tribunal for former yugoslavia. welcome once again to the show well speaking about your tribunals for me the slightly i've got statistics here saying that among the accused by the i c t why there are thirty three croats nine bosnian muslims six counts of obeying the ins and hundred two

thirds. do these figures mean that the i c t y is boris against serbs which you're accused by many journalists. certainly not the tribunal has objective to prosecute those who mean responsibility for crimes committed during the different warm wars in the former yugoslavia as you know there has been a war in. in bosnia kosovo and the tribunal over a number of years had collected facts in relation to ration those crimes and the trials which are in place before the judges are reflecting the information which has been collected by by my predecessors investigators and which has been resulted in in total hundred sixty one indictments where still seven trials on going with fourteen if you so the work is not not yet over i really want to stress in this regard that this tribunal is not served it's not going to court it's not it's about

individuals it's about individual criminal sponsibility is about persons who are charged with the worst crimes one can imagine genocide crimes against humanity and war crimes so it's really not at all about populations or countries it's really about individuals you mentioned your predecessors your predecessor carla del ponte a real star of the national prosecution she wrote a book and in her book she accused the albanian rebels and cost of the. grave crimes crimes against the ethnic serbs including illegal trading of human organs well i would ask you have you heard of any any investigations based on the facts mentioned by a car with her book i mean i've not read the book and i'm also not in a position to comment on the book but of course i'm aware of the defects.

facts which have also be partially documented in very fight by my by my office and those informations have been shared with the with the servant authorities where the seven workouts prosecutor today is in charge of this investigation. now a quote from yourself on september twentieth day you said i quote i am not satisfied with serbia's corp in finding and arresting that complied each and hodge and that the government and belgrade must do more and that's that these were your words quote it has something changed since then what are the chances that these guys will be will be arrested in india. would have said in fact and that would have been in the last report to security council is that cooperation is mainly to scope. with serbia is in relation to ongoing cases is in relation to witness protection its relation to access to documents where i've said over the

last two years that it's very much business as usual where we have a really good interaction with our counterparts where i have been indeed more critical in the last weeks and last month in relation to the fugitives where we have said that. if after several years now of activities of operations there are no results yet but it's very important to to review the investigative strategy that is important to put more resources on the search yes i've said that serbia can do more needs to do more and i also got insurances after our last security council reports by our seven counterparts that our code imitations were taken very seriously so i know that several authorities are currently working on these recommendations i've seen in the last days a number of operations have been conducted in serbia in this regard and i very much looking forward to my meetings with the intelligence and police services of the war

crimes. prosecutor but also the political responsible next week in belgrade. tribunals. it's supposed to complete all the hearings in mid two thousand and eleven like next year by two thousand and thirteen all the appeals should be stopped here well this will be it does that mean that the hunt for the fugitive that we're talking about for laddish and harder is the former serb leader in croatia will be stopped next year and that if needed five then that's it . no i'm your talk to mystic about the final days for the tribunal we will have twice on going until two thousand and twelve and the trial of perhaps even until two thousand and thirteen with appeals going to two thousand and fourteen. it is indeed a problem for us the hunt for the for the fugitives and we have said and repeated many times that the only good and acceptable solution is to have the two remaining

fugitives arrested during the current lifetime of the tribunal this is today our number one priority and this is what is expected from victims in vienna. of course there is to interview the possibility that they are not arrested before the closure of the tribunal for this case the security council is currently working on the so-called residual mechanism to take over the remaining functions from a city wide and this was it will make an ism we'll have one of its component a tribunal component but only to be activated if in the future one of the fifty is arrested and we strongly believe that the signal which is given also by the security council is very very important it means that whenever and wherever the fugitives are arrested there will be an international trial they cannot sit out justice and finally justice will be done. whenever. they are rested they will they

will never feel safe. until they are learned is that true wherever they are whenever it happens where whenever some officer sees them they will be arrested is that true that's a decision to be taken with security council but it is going in this direction and you know. speaking about the the two fugitives we are looking for and to share with authorities are looking for but you know the non arrest of those would be will be also the works of the worst signal for the other tribunals you know that there are other tribunals looking for a number of fugitives and not arresting today really give the wrong signal and would have a negative impact on international justice for the victims of. course for the victims you know i have been in srebrenica for the first time in my life as i'm concerned earlier this year. and you know i spent one day with we

survivors and they told me about their stories about the last of their loved ones and when i ask him what is your priority or what are you expecting the response from everybody was to say we want to see these arrested we want him to face justice we have always said that the best solution would have been to being together before before the judges to if the judges judging about the responsibility together unfortunately for the reasons you know this is not happening but we still. are very hardly pushing the people in the region i want to look at this in the region but also the international community also send it on many occasions the support by the european union to support the russia for the us is very very important so the international community all those who can have an impact of this in the regions also we have to support our work what can you say as a lawyer about the quality of the judiciary and the former yugoslav countries

are they capable of bringing justice themselves without going to the hague. there has been a very positive development in the last years you know in the early days when the tribunal was established there were almost no interaction with the judiciary between the trouble and the judiciary the cooperation between the hague and countries in the region was very vertical the u.n. tribunal was almost kind of imposing cooperation since two thousand and four this changed one of the reasons being that the security council has asked the tribunal to send all middle and lower ranking cases to the region but also those countries having new governments more modern governments with with new legislations and also with the creation in the three counties of specialized war crimes prosecution

or or specialized chambers and one development in this regard to be considered as a positive since last year we have integrated in our office in the hague prosecutor one from belgrade one from. and one from sarajevo they are working together with my colleagues in the hague because we want to give a message it's not about the international community against some countries in the in the region it's for sure not being. it's about individual claimed responsibility and we prosecutors from the region and prosecutors in my office we are all exactly the same objective making sure that those who have committed crimes are punished thank you thank you very much for being with us just a reminder that my guest today was. the prosecutor. performer in this land and that's it for now from all of us here if you have.

someone in mind do you want me to interview tomorrow drop me a line at algorithm at. let's give a shout interactive we'll be back with more until then. take care. download the official on t.m.p. cation tool on the phone oh i pod touch from the saps to. watch on t.v. life on the go. video on demand on t.v.'s mine fold costs and r.s.s. feeds now in the palm of your. question on the dot com.