cross talk host peter lavelle and his guests debate this subject in the latest edition of the show just moments away. and you can. stick. to. a low hanging welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle playing the blame game and where to go from here the u.s. led drive to find a final peace settlement among the palestinians and israelis has faltered badly even after the perceived bribe offered to israel by the obama administration is the ball and israel's corner now. you can. discuss the middle east peace process i'm joined by gideon levy in tel aviv he is a herat columnist and author of the recent book the punishment of gaza and in

boston we have alan dershowitz professor at harvard law school and bestselling author and another member of our cross talk team you know in the hunger again if i can go to you first in tel aviv. the word bribery is being used a lot right now almost across the board and the deal is that israel to commit to another ninety day one off moratorium on settlement building in occupied the occupied west bank in jerusalem they've been given a three billion dollar military deal lots of jets there and if there were any kind of resolution coming from the world at large wanting to recognize the palestinian state. beyond these negotiations and netanyahu and his government who are still thinking about it maybe maybe looking for more of a deal i mean how weak is the united states in and pushing its strong ally in the middle east to commit to the peace process because there is a lot of depression about the process right now go ahead. i'm not

sure that the united states is so weak i think the united states or the administration is footing itself in a weak position we're really facing now follows nothing else but the fos i read the column written by you done kids who use the word bribery. it is really so ridiculous when you watch what's going on the content peter but i see you said who is here the superpower and who is the other one is today is as isolated in the world as never before is the pending on the united states as never before not only only korean military but the above all politically is what has me crazier tweets about this unfortunately is not enough and needs also the united states and this could have been used really to prove mold a set of events to push to get out of the okupe by tories this would have been done

by a devoted administration american administration unfortunately barrack obama is falling to any trip to putting in front of him two years will waste to go read the full nothing and i don't see any perspective for the future fortunately so alan dershowitz we discern a very interesting point here from getting in is that a lot of people blame ho bomb in his administration the palestinians don't aren't feel happy because they haven't been given any kind of special deal the palestinians had they've gone further enough to to meet these demands the israelis are not satisfied with mr obama and i think we can read between the lines they don't think they that israelis don't trust him and so the you know obama's kind of left here are nobel prize winner winner and he just can't seem to move the process forward what has he done wrong if anything in your mind. well let's put it in its broadest perspective the united states and israel or for the palestinians virtually

everything they wanted almost all of the west bank the entire gaza divided jerusalem capital in jerusalem the thirty five billion dollar reparation package ten years ago the palestinians instead started an intifada many israelis just don't trust the palestinians to bring about peace the palestinians have marginalized themselves ten years ago. they could have offered israel peace on the north peace in the west based on the south east today what can they offer israel only peace in the west bank they can't offer them peace in the north that's hezbollah they can't offer them peace in gaza that's hamas so the palestinians are offering less and demanding more they're not in a particularly strong bargaining position israel is a democracy it just passed a law now requiring a plebiscite before it can return land that in the next day after the sixty seven war the united states is simply following a course that has happened for many many years and that is israel has been willing to come forward and make peace on

a reasonable basis the palestinians have said no the palestinians won't even pronounce the words that israel is the nation state of the of the jewish people and so you know i'd like to see peace i'd like to see those two state solution i'd like to see the end of the occupation but the palestinians have to come forward with some. compromise as well it can't all be on israel's side you talk about bribing israel the palette the united states bribes the palestinians all the time constantly pays them enormous sums of money gives them support give support to their joining neighbors jordan in egypt so there's a lot of money offered on all sides the difference is israel is a democracy you have to persuade the people of israel that the palestinians are really interested in peace and that they can deliver the eight hundred pound gorilla in the room is not the palestinian authority it is iran the israelis are worried about so they make peace with the palestinians big deal iran then tells

hezbollah to send rockets into downtown tel a bit of hamas begins to send rockets into stay wrote what they have bought is nothing in exchange for having virtually a civil war to try to dismantle the settlements what does israel get return very very little right so that's why i want us as she says it's time if men. a lot of points here and i think generally if i go back to getting here professor dershowitz is talking about the oss flow agreement so what did and he's saying that they were given a deal what was what if they'd gotten the palestinians out of oslo because a lot of people would say well no wasn't no i'm going i'm just kind of putting it all into one m one basket and over the last twenty twenty years that's all ok and if i can put it under that rubric ok so i'm not a ten i was talking about ten years right all right well we can't even go we can know that we're ok by clinton all right fine and i don't know who broke right there at all mary ok gary and so what if what is the palestinians got out of that how much they control of the west bank how much closer are they to their own your midst

no i don't know what i'm going to get into right now i mean we need to have their time here missing we need to have this air your ways arafat's are in my point no i this is my point so do you get into the room worrying about us well i'm just putting it under that i have doing that with my point ok talking about what the israelis offered in two thousand and two thousand and one final would that point and we go all the way back to australia to wasting time here gideon from oslo to two thousand to what have the palestinians got in due respect to professor dershowitz his comment there what have they gotten out of this peace process. i think we should get back to the basics and the basics use that is it is ok to pry into territories for over forty two years a new patient which is not only brutal but easily good not recognized by one single state in the world the social patient must come to its in even in an unconditional

way by the way and any seeing beyond this will be benefiting peace will be benefiting a settlement but we forget the basi we forget the basic that israel ahead air sends to the territories over four hundred souls and settlers again against the international law this is way ahead that in a one sided way and then we are coming to the palestinians and we tell them you should do a b. c. and d. i'm sorry professor dershowitz israel is not in a position to put a condition before it's bringing it is bringing the occupation in and this occupation yes it is that it was dietitians in gaza and look what happened look what happened in gaza. in cause of the end of the occupation you can get what he wanted he had to return rockets death murder terrorism attack as as as

a barack obama said if rockets were being sent at my children's home he said i would do everything possible to stop it and israel tried to stop it what did they get they got condemned by our it's condemned by the goldstone report so what message is that you send for the west bank israel will leave the west bank there will be more rockets israel will try to defend its citizens what will happen they'll get nothing in return except more goldstone report professor dershowitz a lot of people point out to the current government and the palestinian authority is the most responsible one to deal with the most likely been one to deal with and they'd say it's the israeli government right now it's the least cooperate even if we can look at the foreign minister lieberman a lot of people just say it plain he's a bigot he doesn't want to have a peace process i mean he says makes comments within the government that netanyahu runs and he's but he's a big barrier to any kind of peace process i mean what should the international community think it is what should what he what should the palestinians let me leave the question i had. let me answer the question first of all the israelis right now

their position is sit down and talk come to the bargaining table not with lieberman but with not to yahoo with the government the palestinians are the ones who refused to sit down and talk they're the ones who want to end the occupation they have to come to the table and talk lieberman is a red herring he is not an influential person within the government he has one vote in the small cabinet the cabinet will vote soon to end to to start the freeze again the palestinians have the obligation to come to the bargaining table and bargain over the settlements and bargain over what the borders will look like it's the palestinians who have refused to come to the bargaining table not to know who was the prime minister not lieberman has invited the palestinians unconditionally to come and sit down and negotiate everything the palestinians have been used to surface and there's always a but you know it's. the only country in the world that has ever lost a war and insists on conditions for negotiation to end the occupation even if he's

not it's but even the united states this isn't recognize the illegal settlements in the west bank so why would the palestinians sit down if more settlements are being built i mean i think a lot of people the world understand the palestinian position i had this then that i said it was going to but to let them sit down and negotiated a way that's what negotiations of for refusing to negotiate is not a bargaining position it's going to get in before we go to the break and go ahead. yeah yeah professor dershowitz will of recently to become israel's say ambassador to do you weigh in and i think it's a great loss for the israeli propaganda professor dershowitz refuse this offer because i really think that could have used such. propaganda but let's get back to the fake faith that mr netanyahu is not even ready to do the minimal minimal minimal necessary step of

reasoning the settlements a man who speaks about a two state solution this is only empty words when the first indication this is really gentlemen i have to jump in here we're going to do a short break and we'll come back to you after a short break and we'll continue our discussion on u.s. policy in the middle east stay with r.t. . if you. want. seventy six hours of intense fighting. six thousand dead at a beach front battlefields several kilometers long. and now there is only one person who cares. to see we are surrounded by garbage everywhere but also there are

. on this beach which of course is where most appropriate signification is a symbol of everything that's wrong with our goddamn government allowing not only garbage but to accumulate where so many guys died. a new battle is going on. will the history be protected. return to terra what jewel. cooper story on our team. sweet and clean. salty and very useful. radioactive and dangerous. and even the dead end desolate.

they all keep their unique secrets their bottoms unique lakes on our team. and a salute. to. welcome back to roscoe prime people about tree mind you we're talking about the peace process in the middle east. and in a city. but first let's see what russians think about this issue. the middle east policies of president obama will prove the most detrimental in history the us government is now seen to be openly and publicly complicit in all the israeli violations of international law and possibly resolutions meanwhile the for child made this peace process is mainly contingent on

settlement building washington has offered israel twenty brain will strike fighter planes three million dollar worth demanding is willed to impose a one time only ninety day partial settlement moratorium in the west bank the public opinion pollination conducted a survey and ask russians if they it could be a loss in peace between israel and the palestinians thirty four percent of those polled said it is possible while another third to talk to some believe it is not thus the hope for peace in the middle east looks quite for. ok before we went to the break gideon was alluding to the position of the israeli government and if i can go to alan dershowitz right now i know you want to respond to what gideon had to say but if i could pose a question at the same time at the same time a lot of people say and this is world opinion which is not a particular political ideology or approach to this conflict is that the israeli

government in the u.s. government's backing just running out the clock another ninety days is creating facts on the ground so when we get to the point where you talk about negotiations the facts on the ground already dictate what's going to happen there's going to be a two state solution it's going to be a state that is hardly viable and that's what a lot of people think the israelis want go ahead professor dershowitz absolutely the israelis have a great interest in there being a viable economically secure democratic palestinian state on the west bank the contours of that state or quite obvious they were laid out at camp david in taba ten years ago yasser arafat's turned that down. the palestinians were given all of gaza with farm tools they could have turned it into the singapore of the middle east and instead they impoverished their population used the material that was left behind to fashion rockets and send them into israel in terms of the illegality of the occupation i helped to draft resolution two forty two with the un i know a little bit about it resolution two for the un does not require israel to give

back all the territories and it doesn't require them to give back one inch of territory in till there is peace that is until the other side recognizes their right to exist and the palestinians and when jordan did that they got everything when the egyptians did that they get everything if the palestinians will come to the bargaining table recognize israel as the nation state of the jewish people stop the incitement against the jewish people that occurs every friday in their mosques sit down and negotiate they will get a beautiful state i was recently in ramallah visiting the prime minister of the palestinian authority ramallah is a phenomenal city it looks like downtown jerusalem it is the facts on the ground in fact are building a palestinian state in ramallah into a car and in many many other places and everybody would benefit if the palestinians came to the bargaining table struck a deal and we finally had a two state solution that the israelis will ratify by a referendum that's the road to peace you know getting and i mean we've we've we've

heard this demand that the palestinians recognize israel as a jewish state but if you logic would dictate and that's what the palestinians are accepting being zionists and how in the world should why in the world should israel expect the palestinians to embrace the zionist a point of view of history i mean that's an intent this is of what they are that's is that a reasonable demand and by the way negotiations point have a level of recognition of both sides anyway they've been doing it for years go ahead gideon. it's a long history of israeli demands i'm sure that professor dershowitz to remember the times in which israel claimed that if only the palestinian will change that amendment then immediately israel will go for peace was there and even an american president made all his way to go to witness the change in the palestinian amendment and then he's very said no no this is not enough we need something more it will respond those condition when there is terror we say no as long as they're shooting

we will never negotiate was there then they stopped the terror we say no no now there's no reason to any how is the mother looks like downtown jerusalem why would we bother everything is fine recently mind there is no good she is a haitian i say that today's that continually condition they use or perish they are prepared to negotiate today ok go ahead gideon how do you have zero zero united's why isn't there better mansouri go ahead gideon's. i really admired her eggs for his belief that i think you are much better than ateneo. and but getting back to who the idea it is. we never asked egypt to recognize israel as a jewish state even though we made peace with egypt same for jordan well well we all go see a sort of a sudden this new demanded a why this is a need this recalled nation who are the palestinians to decide about the nature of

israel it's all about putting one obstacle after the other one excuse after the other just to postpone just to put them to the corner and just to do everything possible to prevent any kind of settlement ok professor there should not a precondition it is not a precondition the the israelis say don't recognize israel as a state of the jewish people come in negotiate no preconditions why don't the palestinian simply come to the table sit down and negotiate they will get a very good deal if they come to the table when he or she will were coming to what deal can the palestinians get now when they're half a million under a half a million a settler just as i said i had gideon go ahead i thought you asked me that question oh and i'm asking you can't it's it's very you have a letter. what kind of can they get if the israeli prime minister is not even ready

to freeze the settlements will see months you think. you're seeing that they can be fooled again and again a private is those speaking about a two state solution and is looked ready to freeze the settlements will this reminds is a prime minister who speaks to me so you will kind of a da like a. professor dershowitz go ahead let me tell you what kind of a deal they can get first of all the prime minister wants to freeze it for ninety days he needs to get a vote of the cabinet right now he's one or two votes short he's working his head off to try to get those votes so it's a lie to say the prime minister doesn't want it second of all here's the deal that they'll get in the first ninety days they'll work out the external borders but once they have the borders and they know which of the settlements will be traded for the land in the north then the settlements can continue in those areas that will become part of israel and there will be a total permanent forever freeze of any building outside of the area of what will

become part of israel that's the golden negotiations that's the american foreign policy that's what hillary clinton has said let's in the first ninety days get the outline of the borders then the settlement issue will disappear but the first prerequisite is the palestinians must come to the bargaining table you can't get a deal and mr levy says it will be a bad deal he doesn't know he has no idea let the palestinians come to the table let there be talks let there be negotiations if they don't get a good deal they can walk away if they do we have a good deal they have to come to the table first let's talk an area let's there's no preconditions let's talk about the idea let's go back to getting what about jerusalem ok is that another one of those stumbling blocks they're always put up there ok to establish the borders but then there's always going to be jerusalem isn't there. professor those words didn't mention

jews they live in the deed that we put to the palestinians because private is the mode that it once the jew was or will be united for ever and this is not the break this is not that the station this is nature is it has the right to send to the settlements as much as it once israel has the right to declare the jews it would be jewish for ever and united forever and then those that left over would come to the palestinians and they did then you know it was a privilege to come and talk with us about what exactly proposal does with what is left to be discussed. professor dershowitz go ahead let's talk about jerusalem let me let's in jerusalem in two thousand two thousand and one the israelis with president clinton and a hood barak who was in the cabinet offered the palestinians a capital in jerusalem a divided jerusalem that is still on the table that has to be negotiated now you

get people posturing on both sides but once the palestinians come and sit down and talk i guarantee them they will get control over the arab sections of jerusalem they will be able to have their capital in jerusalem but they'll never find that out unless they come to the bargaining table come to the bargaining table when i met with the prime minister of the palestinian authority recently i said to him sit down come to the bargaining table i then went back and spoke to prime minister not to know about this and i am positive that if the prime minister the palestinian authority the president the prime minister of israel sit down at the bargaining table without preconditions on either side the palestinians will get a very good deal they will have a viable state i think the prime minister of the palestinian authority knows that i think abbas knows that all they have to do is come to the bargaining table without coming to the bargaining table they cannot get anything there are no preconditions sit down and talk then see if the deal's

a good one and make your decision then arafa turned down a very good deal i hope these leaders will see the sense in accepting a generous offer ok getting you to get the last word on the program go ahead. yeah i think that they're palestinians and i'm not the spokesman for the palestinians by all means note i'm an israeli but three ok i care about israel by the palestinian my age and have the right to be sick and tired of negotiating was israel of having another go for top of communities with smiles which lead to nothing it's now about it's the longest peace process in the story if israel really means peace these are any prime minister should live immediately and now it's freezing all of this settlement and seen the end go for any negotiations because this is the first sign of good intentions he's an even capable doesn't the wish to do even these and then

he should come because it was shaking table was clean hands when you crown was all those that courageous as a result of your spare time for the gentlemen i'm afraid i'm going to have to jump in here move run completely out of time i wish you would have had a chance because he is right all right many thanks to my guest today in tel aviv and in boston and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk. if you. still. want to. wealthy british scientists not. just in time to explain the free.

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