joseph stalin was responsible for the cats in a massacre in which nearly twenty thousand polish people were killed in the tragedy sour the relations between moscow and warsaw for decades. my colleague bill dog will be here in half an hour's time but for now it's time for cross talk and today the focus is on haiti and its upcoming presidential elections it's a country with much more on its mind there than politics following january's devastating earthquake and now a cholera epidemic sweeping the island that's coming up next thanks for watching. you can.

follow me and welcome rostock on peter lavelle the search for stability and legitimacy will haitians find either after sunday's elections many question the usefulness of these polls as the country slowly attempts to recover from the january earthquake the spread of cholera the daily violence and voter apathy. came. to discuss haiti's elections i'm joined by nicholas ross here in new york he's an award winning independent filmmaker in washington we go to ernest pregnancy is chairman of the democracy haiti project and a former u.s. ambassador to haiti also in washington we have to pull it pierre he is the executive director and founder of the institute for research in socio economic and public policy and another member of our cross talk team yell on the hunger gentlemen this program is cross talk out means you can jump in anytime you want to react to what the another member on the panel has to say if i go to you mr

ambassador first i start out by saying the search for stability and legitimacy well the elections on sunday. hit haiti one inch forward in terms of stability and legitimacy. well there are dark clouds over having the elections you mentioned a few of them a minute ago starting with the earthquake and the cholera i should say right up front though that four years ago two thousand and six haiti surprised almost everyone with free fair and open elections when president preval was elected this year will be a lot more difficult lot more political intrigue going on and we have to watch closely what happens this sunday i know pull out if i can go to you what do you think about the elections here i mean there's a lot of people saying that haiti is in no condition whatsoever to whole hold a free and fair election and there's a lot of people are complaining that a lot of important parties a party that used to back mr era stede that is an exile is not being able to run

how legitimate can it be if so many political parties and these are not you know marginal parties that are being excluded how legitimate can any election be i think of the very first thing that we have to watch for on sunday is the. number of people who are going to go and who percentage of the population that it's going to what is the process there is of course. that son hanging on top of the. get it to a council itself because it excluded the religious bodi of the us body and. a lot of anger about that but i do same time you also have many people will also from the previously from that evidence body like former prime minister you want to tune and others will participate in does elections but do seem to be two candidates who really one is a one that is favored by the current president who is his name is your insidious

thing and the other one is the mrs many guy was the wife of a former president he. is the many gun and. depending on who many people go to the polls. how strong the electoral feels. then we're going to be able to say we're doing the elections. surprise people because haitians in general tend to surprise people. you may expect something to happen when we and then the electoral. voters themselves decide to go to go to way so you really never can tell because pollings can say one thing and at a certain point you suppose that something else happens ok nick i'd like to add i didn't understand the concerns ok but i did make a new york here to try in it before i ask you i'd like to show a clip of an interview you did with. the former president and i take you to kind of

comment on it because i think that the era stede personified legacy is still very much part of haitian politics let's listen to what. we'll listen to from the former president of haiti haiti mr verity. once we have the condition of haiti now we have a kind of miracle and. so they don't want me to be back for my point of view because they still want to buy haiti. very interesting interview and i suggest viewers see the rest of it nic i mean how much in your knowledge of haiti how much is that the former president reflect public opinion in haiti today his words that he just said. well i think many people in mainstream media keep keep keep basically you know mentioning his name there's no doubt that he's still a popular figure in haiti's politics. there is he as you know

it's in the interview has said that. you know he has been forced to to leave haiti in two thousand and four he's main party from the level us which is still very popular in haiti has not been allowed to present candidates so there's no dubbed right now than going into an election. in these next days is not going to be seen as legitimate but that's just one political reality of the reality in haiti as people know there's one point three million people displaced thousands of people hundreds of thousand people have lost things in ideas they ideas actually there are a lot of questions where as you know this election will be a fair free election or you ever see the full participation of haitian people so there's a lot of questions about you know how is the this election it will be seen a lot of people don't get on top of those points ok mr ambassador you said you

wanted to reply to what nick just said go ahead. well a couple of a couple of points i would not overstate the influence of ira steed in the current election situation his presidency not just according to me but by many haitians was was a failure there was corruption there was political violence there was gross mismanagement the economy and he's in exile in south africa and will remain there his party should be inscribed but not more directly my second point is has a lot more to do with the preval government and how the how the election will be managed and the critical the biggest political shortcoming this time compared with two thousand and six is that the electoral commission which manages the elections and according to constitution should be independent and balanced as it was in two thousand and six is not today all the members

a hand-picked supporters of prey volved and that's causing a great deal of concern that's why several other. respected opposition leaders are boycotting the presidential election or both some of their members are still running for the parliament so there is this political big political question of how the elections will be managed and whether they'll be biased in favor of prevost candidate. and i stand tension there are a number of examples i could give a kind of jump in and i was i had all this of course made much more going to need going on in germany who are we to do side who is haitian leaders have to be in exile or not it's clear that is a significant party in haiti that the national leader is to aristide that a lot of the haitian people if not a very significant portion of the haitian population doesn't like what happened in two thousand and four and want him back you know i have i have no stake in it i don't care about aristide personally i'm sure he made mistakes everybody's aware of

it maybe but the fact he was elected and he was forced into exile now who are you to say that he should stay in exile in south africa. mr ambassador was really really i don't see that every soul interested in his end of the tour question was interested in a whole lot in your mind then you are interested in recalls who haitian in haiti no reconstituting when you don't integrate old there already is in haiti you know i'm going to me. let me respond to the question which i assume was not just rhetorical i have a concern because an american taxpayer and in two thousand and four there was a civil war in haiti which was judged to be caused by aras widespread violence and we were not going to send in any marines or any economic aid unless the civil war ended and that was where the discussions got underway whereby with the u.n. more or less in the middle state agreed to go into exile in south africa ok if i go

to you in their lives i'd like to look at the ramifications of what happened in two thousand and four did that promote democracy in haiti exile and a democratically elected leader was dot promoting democracy in haiti and what is what is that impact what i would like to see you both know this whole issue is that easy. throughout haiti's history if you look at it very carefully if you just read the history books of haiti we've always had a problem of. political leadership be dealerships being over through and either by haitians or aided by others from you know like foreign nations or whatever and when you have and all due respect to mr ambassador but when you have a political leader who was elected and was forced out of exile whether or not you're like especially in the year two thousand and four which is the year of

that he was supposed to celebrate his two hundred and a verse or e or independence and following that overthrew we've had which means which means first of all that we've missed the opportunity as haitians to enjoy to celebrate our independence from france and having the french of having friendships come to haiti on that very same year that was. like a slap on haiti's face and that's i mean whether or not you like i received. that's a problem here of respect of the of process of addict will process. on the order and a decision time believing that. we are going to be able to resolve these issues without thinking also of the stress of the structural problems that we have as haitians when it comes to our political system when it comes to our institutions we're not

really doing any good are the for instance we're talking about elections and possibility for stability in the long term every time we have elections in haiti there's always a very same question the very same issue of where do an ideal actions are going to be fair and you always have some policies that are trying to make sure to undermine the elections and it's also limited to ask for a jury right here. and i jump in right here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on haiti stay with art. and. we'll come to the wisconsin t.v.

experiments with nobel prizes so people who. voted for tonight's town prentiss. massive structures to get a microscopic make over and a tiny chip can take us a long way defeat of nano comes into focus. on technology update here on on we've got the future covered. the close up team to speak to the thompson creek where rich academic life gives birth to innovative ideas. now largely goes to the area which together with boosting industrial development. offers to make a journey into russia's history. and to enjoy burgers and vivid cultural life. welcome to the param region in russia close up on our cheap.

welcome back peter tree mind you we're talking about haiti's election. but first let's see what russians think about this issue haitians do go to the polls as the country struggles to recover from january they have a stating earthquake the electorate will vote for president and members of parliament while the country continues to grapple with serious social woes and disease soon after the january twelfth earthquake that killed over two hundred thousand people there love the sun i ask russians if they would donate to help patients forty five percent of the respondents said they would and the other forty three percent would not public opinion is split since many are concerned the aid

would not reach the recipients. ok nick i'd like to go back to you in new york what is the role that the united nations is playing there right now i mean from what i understand it's about six hundred million dollars a year there. believe a bully unpopular with so many haitians right now expression need to top it off of this cholera outbreak which a lot of people claim that the united nations brought there inadvertently but you know at six hundred million dollars a year why can't they just be training a police force give infrastructure i mean that's a lot of money for haiti i mean wouldn't it be better service left and the money went to something some other purpose a positive purpose because there's long as the u.n. is there really there is no sovereignty in haiti. i mean the u.n. has done great things all over the world that i'm not here to criticize the u.n. but there is there is this belief among many haitians and i'm sure you know people

from. the un has not had a very positive role i mean they've basically put a legal face to an overthrow you can call it force their part to overthrow coup that you can use many different definitions but what happened in two thousand and four was not there to promote stability in the long term and you know that's one reason why i wanted to hear what he had to say because he's still a political player in haiti and exile you know all the political leaders that we don't agree with. to other countries it's not going to solve the political situation on the long running haiti and the u.n. has spent about three billion dollars just the peacekeeping operations these are also u.s. taxpayers money there is millions and millions billions we've poured since than one thousand nine hundred one in haiti the u.s. has poured into haiti and the result now is just not very clear for many people you

know all that money could have been spent in planting bamboo trees in cleaning water from health care isn't building roads that's what haiti needs to know they don't need the one thousand peacekeeping force haiti is not that such a dangerous dangerous country i'm sure the ambassador can can tell you that it's very very cynical what's going on there and it's very cynical that they want to move forward with elections when they know it's not going to be seen as a legitimate election ok mr ambassador i mean nic nic says and a lot and a lot of people agree with him around the world that the u.n. is just a fig leaf trying to legitimize the illegal overthrow of a democratically elected leader first let me say i really disagree that aras is not a significant factor in these upcoming elections since he left in zero four there's been a third for the first time. there's been a democratic process at least for six years under the interim government promised a lot to it to the very good elections in zero six the very questionable and bad

not so good elections let me say you know nine and we have a big election coming up this sunday and there opposition candidates and there's the two principal candidates that were mentioned earlier but they are big questions about whether it's going to be free and open or whether the day the preval party activists are out there subverting the elections so this is where the u.n. comes in the u.s. has been doing a lot of things including together with the organization american states giving the technical support and and other support for the electoral process there's a lot to be criticized about the u.n. it's not an easy body to to manage and put forward what particularly with respect to the elections this sunday my own assessment is that the u.n. and the oas have been bending very much in the direction of saying all these are basically fair and open elections in support of prey of all in his party whereas we

and i'm chairman of a democracy project we have about eighty. observers electoral observers in country now they'll be out on sunday we're finding it we're getting a lot of reports saying these are not going to be good elections sunday but that it's the u.n. the oas seem to be bending toward giving it a whitewash ok if i go you in washington i mean is the u.n. playing is the u.n. playing a positive role in haiti right now because her if it reports coming out of. people being killed people that sort of don't support the right political priority quote unquote numerous rapes have been required reported i mean this doesn't sound like the blue caps that we blue helmets that we all hear about i mean or maybe we do in africa and things like that but what is the role. i am i am not sure exactly how positive or negative in matters of its totality do all of the un is in haiti

i take the next words as face value because he's done some work on that specifically what i know is that there is a very serious concerns for instance regarding the color a p to make right now in haiti and people have demonstrated against the u.n. because many people believe there is a rule him itself from the nepalese. contention that as help spread the the quote i put in the can aid in you know water but if i may return to the sea shoe of could it douse civil was mr prager likes to call it one thing that i like to point out which is to me extremely important if we're talking about stability in haiti we also have to learn to respect the police will process whether or not we like the person who's running the country if somebody whether he's from the right do they have to centro or whatever if that person was elected and that

person has the has to have the opportunity to to finish terms and when that term ends should derby any serious issues with the way the person who governed or anything of the like you have to be able to go through some legal process in order to resolve these issues if the person has to go to prison or whatever else you cannot decide on your own that these theories are a good leader or that leader is a good leader would because you will because you can judge for him to be better and then you come and then you have overthrew a government that's a very in that's a very serious issue with haiti which is cause of the instability which has always been a cause for him to be in it in fact what i like to say when it comes to haiti is that it's a country where any political leader any president always leaves in an interstate once you become praise of the country you are in a permanent campaign state in other words rather than governing the country you are . always have to be strategizing or acting as

a tactician in order to see how you can survive and you always groups will always will trying to overthrow you and deal very powerful we themed a country and also and they have very good friends and didn't international community can they can rely on to do to help overthrow especially if the government is cruel so to do to the populace ok this is that there's a river in full there's a very good point and i think it's very reasonable as well mr ambassador well how would you reply to that i mean respect the process ok i think that's of the key thing right here i mean if even if even if a leader has even if a leader has shortcomings or or relatively failure in office etc etc shouldn't it be the process of the people to decide that i'm not outside forces because i know that that taints democracy to this day. absolutely it's the process and the people that's why we have to be much more specific about how important this sunday is for example president preval has lost popularity for

a number of reasons the opinion polls show that the principal opposition. candidate mr smiley guy is ahead of stan in the opinion polls and moving up and if there's a runoff in january that probably will be since neither one will probably get fifty percent it could move further if in fact though come sunday say last stand comes out way ahead in number first position there's going to be a lot of really negative response from the haitian people about the elections not being fair and let me if i might just to be specific just quote two or three sentences from one of our observers that we have great respect for in the southern small city of shock mail and this person says. that the prey. party unit a party activist are now pressuring the poor people to give them their election

cards for a small amount of rice or tent moreover they walk around heavily armed under their under their shirts with guns and they and they have fired the poll station employees and replaced them with members of the uni tape party and this observer and by saying how is it possible for the un the oas to accept this and i think this is a very legitimate question. based on my comment before that there are questions being raised about how these elections are being managed by not an independent and balanced electoral commission and with the un and the oas so i'd have wanted to see it come out favorably because of the admission there you know make a lot of a lot of senate cynics would say and are saying that the the reason why the un is pushing through saying at least this these elections i have absolutely have to happen because once a quote unquote a stable government is there more aid money will come in because

a lot of aid money is contingent on having some kind of government in place here is do you think there's that say in the works here is that you know it's this is what i call the aid industry they're just waiting to for the trough to be filled up again because they have to have a stable government in haiti. well is this whole i mean it seems very important they have elections i just think that for practical reasons most observers of observers on the ground say that it's going to be very difficult is there are two hundred thousand soon who are said to have going to get called a color there is a lot of people have lost the idea is there's a lot of people displaced one point three. i mean talking about a fair election also you know knowing that it's an important party i know that from the level i see it's not consider an important party for by mr ambassador but it is a significant party and mainstream news sources are going to be going to calm after the election and they're going to say the same thing that the election was not seen

and will not be seen as legitimate i'm going to read i'm going to have to journey in here i'm afraid i'm going to jump in we've run out of time many thanks to my guests today in new york and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember prost topples. and .

between russia and. the last. international space station. in which twenty thousand people. around.