the movie joins the who runs the movie that's the gateway to the grand imperial truly torturously. you can a list which will. say don't need to go and. read this in the kernel was her job as a retreat. cross-talk is coming up here in our team but first our top stories as a chinese political prisoner gets a nobel prize an absentee many western countries are calling for his release but some critics say the u.s. is in no position to talk about both speaking out against the government beijing says the award is an insult to which traditional system a third of the countries invited to the events have not showed up in support of china. american companies channeling funds to the whistleblower web site wiki leaks

have stopped all payments but are still allowing money to flow to violent and embrace of groups like the ku klux klan and supporters of the site and its founder are now turning against these firms which include pay pal visa and master card. british authorities are picking up the pieces after what's been called the worst student on rest in a decade after lawmakers approved a hike intuition fees even the royal couple got caught up in the violence as prince charles' car was attacked by demonstrators. kevin no one will have more on all those stories in about thirty minutes time up next it's our debate program cross talk this week peter the veil asked his guests whether the euro has a future that's coming up after a short break. well . bringing you the latest in science and technology from around russia.

we've got the future covered. and you can. follow in welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle a currency in crisis and under siege what does the future hold for the euro is it destined to be a weak currency or is it time to seriously consider ending this monumental monetary experiment. can. you discuss the future of the euro i'm joined by john ganton birmingham he's the u.k. spokesperson for the e.u. referendum campaign and in london we cross to rodney shakespeare he is one of the founders of the global justice movement and another member of our cross talk team you know on the hunger are a gentleman crosstalk rules in effect he can jump in anytime you want if i go to

you rodney first we had is the e.u. the e.u. zero is that facing a fork in the road meaning either reassess the entire project or and this will inflate may get john even more wound up is if they have to go to the the fiscal side it's a monetary union but the fiscal side is empty so it really to make it make sense fiscal sidelight means somebody in brussels determines all of the budgets of member countries it's an either or proposition right now because over the last few weeks this crisis is going on no one's come up with any solid ideas outside of a lunatic idea called a euro bond or a new you e bond what do you think right name we had to fork in the road. well the situation is much bigger than the year of sixteen or seventeen countries if you go wider and look at the european union which is twenty seven countries twenty five of those countries have breached the rules on debt and deficit and then if you go even

further to the usa where virtually all the individual states are in difficulties or in bankruptcy i mean california is actually printing what effectively ious or post-dated checks and so you have to say how is it there's a situation not just within the euro not just within europe but much more widely you're looking at a crisis of the at least the west them or virtually the global financial system and just one point on this if you take say greece which was in the headlines the greece national debt as a percentage of g.n.p. was one hundred and fifteen percent when it has implemented the austerity measures the debt will think crease to one hundred and fifty percent in short the situation is out of control and the proposed measures are making it worse and as a result there's going to be

a crack crash of the euro john what do you think about that i mean there's thing is that everything they've tried to do in rodney is absolutely right get out of dad should go into dad to define prosperity you go into further in further dad which it seems to me the only people that benefit out of all of this so far are the banks ok they're doing quite well through the whole thing i mean even when there is a run on a country the banks really come out very very well i mean they have not proposed any solid solutions to get out of this mess and there's a lot of criticism for the for the euro you for the euro zone itself you know you can't do a country by country you've got two weeks the whole thing is not going to work. what are the bottom line let's talk about the e.u. for to start with and the euro is that this union was doomed to failure from the beginning thank goodness we never joined the single currency but we now have a situation of course where you know they've tied the economy of of greece say for example to germany well how can you possibly do that if you have the same to end if you don't have the same tax and the same benefit regime as well that's what's going

wrong this is a political union really where they put the monetary union first whereas in the states of course when you had your union you didn't start using the greenback for many many years after the political union now the fact is we don't really want political union certain on a yearly referendum campaign we the british people have never been asked whether we want to be in the united states of europe we were asked did we want to be in a common market a trading regime yes we did back in seventy five but do we want to be in it now i said the british people must be given the choice and seventy five percent of british people the latest poll agree with the e.u. referendum come by and we should be asked do we want to be in or out now we've got a position we've got students rioting on the streets yesterday protesting on the streets of london and they've been doing it for several weeks now this will continue because what's actually happening is we're increasing all the government the coalition government trying to increase education fees to go into higher

education to nine thousand pounds a year with out of welfare benefit cuts of seven billion pounds but that's the same amount of money seven billion pounds sterling that we're going to give to ireland to help them out of their present situation and we're not even members of the your side i think people in britain get very angry it's a completely already curious situation this was politics issues coal and dad issues mitterrand who wanted this massive union army is corrupt it's a waste of money and we want to vote on whether we stay in or not ok rob you want to jump in there had a quick point there which is that. john referred to the seven billion going from the u.k. to help the ari situation now the behind that is the fact that our land owes the pretty spanx one hundred forty four billion and you see. i and i agree with you completely john hiatt on we see into law and i mean you romney by leaking

seriatim which is yes you know clearly out of go rolling out the no money scotland . keep going mainly on the royal bank of scotland and we've just recently about a year or two years ago the british people never asked about it we bailed them out we're now effectively buying their out again one of our biggest banks because you're right they're completely in debt is actually our economy that's what's behind this this is what the british people haven't been told should crushes in the banking industry but it is also down to politicians and lakshya lation you know agree with you rodney in your analysis that it's world wide isn't just europe i would agree gentlemen gentlemen i think it's very very interesting is we brought in the comparison of the united states because it seems to me over the last two years or so it's countries are can fail ok they can fail in a sense it's banks they can't fail the banking system isn't allowed to fail and that's one of the things that's very very interesting here is because it's saving the banks and then it doesn't really care where what's happening on the ground because they're so far away from the people anyway and it sure in there if you like

they went in to save the banks of greece they've wanted to save the banks of ireland because it's all internet makes it that way so it really cuts away from the real economy go ahead rodney. yes that there is an elite and unfortunately that view of things is reinforced by mainstream neo classical economics which basically says the banks may create money administration costs and interest and then can lend it for any reason and the more lending that they do the efficiency purposes of the free market are being served and the justice purposes of being served that is complete utter lies the whole thing is being it's. exposed now as the debt is built too much the in america they got rid of all their jobs they've never addressed the real economy should the whole thing is now coming down and i'm afraid it's going to be very nasty we're looking at fifteen twenty years and even then there may not be

a solution ok you know we had a position then we were you know limb and brothers was allowed to go pop in the united states and one of our backs. northern rock a very small bank which the first one was on the government didn't allow that to go bust maybe they should have allowed that go bust because that was the beginning of the problem but bank was biota out other banks have been bailed out i run across western europe in particular here in the u.k. those bankers now are paying those bonuses again and at no point has the political elites of any party here in the united kingdom actually spoken to the british people about this and i think there's a massive disconnect similar to what's happened in to in the state speech or with the tea party there's definitely a disconnect between mainstream politicians of the major parties and the public which is why i think the tea party actually got a lot of traction in your recent elections and indeed we need something like that here in the united kingdom and in a way the e.u. referendum campaign will try to fill that void by saying listen we must have

a vote on the most important political question we've got at the moment to the u.k. which is do we want to be part of the e.u. we're paying forty eight million pounds sterling per day to the e.u. forty eight million pounds twenty four thousand civil servants working in brussels allowed in to back up these people in the european commission and in the european parliament and i say the british people haven't been asked and that's where the disconnect is if the political elite are looking after the banking system and i think that's well right john i think it's very interesting you mention this because if you look at you know the the the moneyed people the banks in all through europe and in the united states during this financial crisis it's been estimated that there's enough private capital out there private individuals and corporations have an enormous amount of money why can't they bail out their own why can't they bail out their own banks ok because the money is out there because why should the taxpayer have to bail out the bad decisions were made by the very rich and they

continued to be very rich the recession's over for those folks it's over completely for them they're going to just like it was restored go ahead rodney. peter that they will not the that rich have to actually exists privately in the usa but they will not put it into the american economy because they rightly perceive that it will not get the reward they want they will therefore put it into the chinese economy and that's the same reason why they in fact have exported what are probably six or seven million jobs to countries like china or india needs or it's set up and there's a fundamental problem the arrogance which says only consider the interests of a small group of elite corporations only consider the interests of the of the big banks it's sold out mainstream america it's ok johnny when you have. an idea you don't need here in the united kingdom i've got friends who are developers and friends who are in business you know and they tell me stories where they go for a scheme a few years ago and then asked for a million pounds on loan and they'd be offered two million pounds out of banks i

want a friend in dublin of the moment he went and asked for one hundred thousand pounds for a very very small development he had an amazing thirty year business travel record and the banks said no it has completely reversed it's in the capital isn't there for small businesses to medium businesses create jobs and that's the worry at the moment meanwhile we're funding and bailing out ireland we've now got a position here in western europe of course where even the german people who and the population of germany are saying we don't want to anybody else portugal is going to go next it looks like spain margot's well on there are beer and potential there just isn't enough money in the porch in the you to keep bailing out these countries which is why i say let's have a referendum and let's get out of it and i think the i think the your oh will collapse as a currency or go into a two to currency perhaps with one sort of euro for countries like germany maybe even france where they're reading the papers this morning they've got their own problems as well and then another euro for the mediterranean countries was whole

idea right i want to know which was great i want to organize a little bit later but we're going to go to a break right now after a short. we'll continue our discussion on the euro stage. and it. is easy to. see. hungry for the full slug we've got it for us the biggest issues get

a human voice face to face with the news makers. welcome back to rostock time peter remind you we're talking about the prospects for the e.u. and the euro. but before let's see what currency russians prefer to save their money and. two decades ago when the euro was conceived nobody expected it to go through anything like the current financial crisis now many wonder what the prospects are for the currency and the entire european experiment even they deal breaking up the currency zone has been mentioned with the euro viability question the currency is weakening there are

a lot of senate has asked russians which currency they prefer four to six percent of those polled say the russian ruble nineteen percent opt for several currencies eleven percent cited the euro and only a six percent us dollar that's the trusted ruble is growing while the euro's role is diminishing peter. john i'd like to go to you you know there is there's over really last few days people have been talking about this a new kind of bond euro bond and it's really quite amazing to me me and you in the countries that like the idea you know you really expect greece who brought out of portugal spain you know i mean it seems really interesting to me is that they don't want to fix this problem they want to institutionalize moral hazard yet because it is really all this means is that the germans pay for everything ok and no wonder the germans are saying enough because they i mean they they made

a political decision and i think you know everyone wants to feel happy about being in the in europe you know or past conflicts and all of this sort of juristic a story in the past ok we all agree on that that's good but why should the germans have to continue to pay because it's a political decision it's not an economic one. p.h.a. simple as an ace a sticking plaster on a seven juggler these euro bonds they will not stop love problem the problem is you cannot tie these economies together of course paper economies like a greece and spain and portugal maybe even italy they would love this i would love it i watched the islands irish budget a two days ago and they were talking about you know the that the austerity cuts are going to put in place but their child benefit is greater than the united kingdom's their corporation tax is that twelve and a half percent that's why loads of european companies have relocated to dublin and to ireland so basically they want to have better benefits than those they want to

take all the business that they want to spend as if money to go do your road going out of fashion and then they want countries like the united kingdom and particularly germany to bail them out so now of course the german people who actually can control of their banks and of kept control of their property boom i'll just say enough is enough of us saying nine that i'm not going to pay and i can save a lot of germany were largely the architects of the european union i can see the german people turning against this and of course it's a good idea of course we don't want to have we don't have more world wars or a wars in europe that is good but the but the bottom line here is they wanted to enforce currency equality across europe and unity and union before political union but the bottom line is are and think people in the u.k. want political union we just want a trading or a relationship and this is why age doomed to fail and i think within five months certainly within five years the euro will be no more and i tell you something else

i think the european union has got major major problems that needs to be well reform they want to even increase their budget there one hundred thousand people protesting on the streets of brussels four weeks ago. whilst in sunlight the commission they were voting to put the hospitality budget to two point one million they want to drink more champagne and shorter more all the while we lose jobs how's that fair on ordinary middle income taxpayers in europe and so it's not this you is this your own is a dead currency it is deceased it is no more it's like the dead parrot of the famous mountain pirate i was just thinking i right you are going to rob me i mean i mean one of the things is that. right before we went on we were talking about the lack of real strong political leadership today we were talking about it in europe i would say also in the united states because there's such deadlock right now but i

mean the there seems to be no vision out there in doing research on this program i don't see anybody seriously trying to fix the problem of the euro and the problem of the european union itself they just want to get by they just want to get to the next election or you know no one wants to make any hard decisions because hard decisions people have to be made responsible for and i think all because of this whole experiment austerity is going to be necessary in some ways but it has to be more equitable not so that what we're getting well they or just want to get by because of the underlying doctrine is the free market always comes into balance it's not a free market they always say it comes into balance therefore cling on carry on as we are and everything will be ok but they just do not see what is the situation is built up it's been built up since probably about the last forty or fifty years it's been accentuated by getting regulators legislates restraints like the glass steagall act and on top of that you've got computerization and then you've taken

all these massive trillions of derivative contracts which are actually outside the banking system put that all together and you're going into one all for a large scale crash and that there are there are pygmy politicians in europe there's no one who is act. prepare to see the behind this is an earth of control banking system and an arrogant elite unless you're prepared to stand up say that and for a start stop the banks creating money and open up an interest free loan supply for the real economy and that will stand under roosevelt it was done in australia and canada and use even with great success but then they gradually in committees late at night the banking lobby trade associations started to change a thing so that today every government has the bar interest if i can just take one simple example in the u.k. we can generate ten percent of our electricity supply by

a huge scheme on the river seven now this technology no problem at all creates a massive amount of work and the government has just decided to stop that project because they would borrow the money at interest in the banking system by the time the project was built the cost of it would have gone to three or four times the original amount which is borrowed in other words they never ever repay it and the compound interest has made the whole situation out of control there must be a challenge on this practice of the private banks creating the money and endlessly putting on compound interest it's a small your solution be then rodney earnest and your criticism but what would your solution be write me what you would if. you want to ask me yup ok number one ask me aren't i am interested in your theory i want to know how you see that happening in practical terms. ok here we go by a gradual rise to one hundred percent reserves you stop the banks creating money

you say banks you may lend your own money carry on do what it likes chuck it away if you want you may lend the deposits of your deposits of your customers with permission then at the same time you open up interest free loan supply administered by the banks who may charge and administration costs but not interest and this alone supply tico for the development and spreading of the real economy exactly the same as the present except interest free and the be one further condition that in fact you must spread the economy to take one example i mean the students are on the streets of london and i need to get to this broadcast because they are blocking the streets and it should be interest free loans and only in administration costs but they're being screwed they are going to be debt service they are allowed their lives and their children will be debt serfs as well you know it's very interesting gentlemen i'm going to john it's interesting the writing

brings it up because this is what's happened to millions and millions of americans they pay enormous amounts of money for their undergraduate education there are no jobs out there to be a waitress or a waiter and you have a dad one hundred twenty thousand one hundred fifty thousand dollars and they in the end there is a lot of interest there accumulating there and it creates this dead end and this is really what's happened in in europe because what it is if it wasn't there before it's actually happened we have an apartheid system we used to pigs but it's very appropriate ok because greeks and sort of spaniards and portuguese said you can live like germans but you don't have to work for it ok and this is really why do i have it if i am i never have to pay them back but now the cows are coming home i mean go ahead john i mean what we've seen is a lot is our c.n.n. heroes are is actually impoverished its members it will continue to impoverished some of its members yet. well armed suggesting to students they should take out the

maximum loan that they possibly can and just outlaw the banks and never pay it back i just spoke of the louds because that seems to me what bank is a very good said here when it comes to your of the just simply isn't enough money in the pot i mean there is some currency what rugby is proposing and certainly when it comes to students i mean i actually do believe the students are paying three thousand three hundred pounds a year at the moment i think that's a reasonable amount to contribute towards your further education because you should get a better job what's absolutely in no inexcusable is this u. turn by one of our political parties nick clegg and the lib dems but now they're going to try and triple it to nine thousand pound no one a year no wonder children young people out on the streets today coming back to europe because what we have is we have a situation which many people older than me i must say part of the euro skeptic movement or right from the beginning said this will never work this political union car work and this fiscal union is doomed to failure we have a position here in the united kingdom for goodness sake where polish people because

of freedom of movement can come to england so men come and work in the united kingdom and the country with their tax and everything else however then they can claim benefits for their children child benefit well you might say that's perfectly fair apart from of course our child benefit is a long greater than in poland now wait for the big killer born on their speech or not only that they don't have to bring their children with them or even prove their core children back in warsaw in poland how way pay the child benefit for that child how can that work it can't you have to have the same taxation the same benefit system if a political or monetary union is going to work amongst countries and we haven't got it it doesn't work it was doomed to failure from the beginning and it is going to crash and burn and soon people are going to wake up their way the world you are caught up in places like barcelona madrid and in france and paris. in brussels ordinary people are going to say why should we be bailing out the bankers again the

bankers and the politicians with them not tracheal ation seem to have got away with this scot free not sure where i mean we're not even there i mean we've run out of time here but i want to thank my good both my guests today one birmingham and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk.

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