much higher we're going to reveal who stuck in the shadows during these tough economic times and why these people are too often overlooked then what if this is the prime time for people to start their own businesses it seems backwards considering the tough economy but one person out there says that this is the best time to take a risk and create your own job or to speak with scott gerber about his idea and we'll continue our coverage of the prison strikes taking place in georgia it's day six of the peaceful protest where prisoners are refusing to leave their cells all in hopes of getting better treatment from the department of corrections but what are the odds that these prisoners will actually get their demands criminologist jeffrey ian ross will join us to discuss that at the end of the show but now let's move on to our top story. in court in london today a british judge granted a wiki leaks founder julian assange bail set at two hundred and forty thousand british pounds in the case of sexual allegations brought against him and the bail came with strict monitoring conditions however including wearing an electronic

monitoring device staying at a registered address checking in with london police daily and observing curfews however that doesn't mean that assad is leaving prison any time soon he's going to remain in custody pending an appeal of the ruling by swedish prosecutors bring up questions as to yesterday's news that a secret grand jury has been assembled in virginia to consider what charges could be brought against him here in the u.s. and whether sweden my hand him over so legally could happen does the u.s. really have a case against a songe or here to discuss it with me is attorney michael barnes policy advisor i d c b a law and policy michael thanks so much for being here thanks for having me let's get down to the basics as far as i understand it what the u.s. is really trying to use against us and here is the espionage act but do they really have a case there's a strong case for criminal behavior on the part of julian assange and wiki leaks because the elements that the prosecutors in the u.s. will look to is whether. disseminated information related to the national defense

of the united states with the knowledge that dissemination would harm the national defense correct me if i'm wrong there but it does not sound like what our media does all the time what the new york times be doing what the guardian's been doing by also disseminating these leaks that we keep leaks gave them well that's a good question and that's all to me what i think down the road after probably years of litigation and legal processes we will get to the major question as to what is journalism in the age of the internet and how far do the u.s. freedoms of speech and the freedom of press really go well and enjoy it assigns not to mention also is not an american citizen so how is he necessarily you know a lot of people have been calling this treason what he's done to america but really go after a guy who is australian who happens to run a website that also is located internationally that happens to give documents to our media you are pointing out all the questions that for lawyers are very exciting right now because all of this is related to jurisdiction in an information age

where we've got acts that likely occurred in the u.s. or networks that could be deemed to be have been located in the united states and then also the involvement of u.s. military personnel and the fact that we make our laws and we determine when jurisdiction exists under our laws we will of course need to look to the laws of the nation from which we're seeking extradition of julian assigned to make sure that there's also a comparable law that would have been broken in order for them to be willing to hand him over to the u.s. i understand this might be exciting for people like you write for a lawyer is all over the country but for me for someone like myself who is a journalist i find this scary i think of this could set a very dangerous president as far as i'm concerned the espionage act has never been used successfully against a media organization yes and that's why you really should be concerned because as a journalist you abide by ethics and you're not an agitator that is intent on harming the u.s. government and there's a very strong case that wiki leaks and julian assange is are not journalists and in fact now they're attempting to sell themselves as journalists but. it's more of an

effort now to created a defense for legal purposes but there have been admissions on the part of julian sons and wiki leaks that indeed they saw as collateral damage the harm that could occur to informants for the u.s. for example so this is willingness to disseminate information related to our national defense that will cause harm all according to our government anything might cause harm to our national defense the slightest little secret that gets out there that's why i think a lot of people have to start questioning this but tell me i've also heard that there's another thing rumors that they might go for a conspiracy charge under the computer fraud and abuse act if they find evidence that he actually incited someone to give over this information would i have any of that evidence i don't know specifically whether they have any that evidence as you know the prosecutors in the u.s. have been very secretive and that's why we hear that there might be a secret grand jury in alexandria virginia but i do think that it would make sense to avoid the first amendment questions if we want to deal swiftly with the threats

caused by wiki leaks and all the states in the u.s. many of the states i won't say all don't know for certain have computer crimes act and so does the u.s. federal government so that would be an opportunity for prosecutors to pursue now this secret grand jury that may or may not have been held yesterday over that i'm just not going to have this soon that it was held yesterday is that normal though they'll get together and they'll just try to rack their brains come up with any little thing if they can do to get someone in the country the prosecutors would actually be presenting information in the grand jury would be determine what it whether there is enough evidence to bring him into the country and request extradition but we have to remember that that information came out from the attorneys the defense attorneys for wiki leaks and julian assange and then heavy fund raising mode. do you think there's any chance that sweet in might actually now allow the u.s. or him to extradite julian assange as to the u.s. might for all of their charges against him certainly there are a lot of conspiracy theories of the. charges are indeed intended to allow the u.s.

to get their hands on julian songe i do think that it is possible after years of legal wrangling that sweden could turn him over it probably would be easier for the us to pursue extradition of julian assange is from great britain because we've got that special legal longstanding legal relationship and political relationship with britain but also we have a new law that permits a more expedited extradition post nine eleven yeah something that the brits so often complained about the do you think that what you think the chances are that the brits would actually allow the extradition to happen when it comes to freedom of the press you could say that these people have they give a lot more leeway than we do here in america i wouldn't go that far to say that myself but i can say that it's going to be a long and drawn out process and it's going to be just as politicized there as it is here and probably more so and so we want to make sure that the sovereignty of those nations is not called into question no one wants to be deemed a pad or a puppet of the u.s. government and that's going to be a really really important element from the perspective of whichever country is

considering an extradition request from the united states do you find it at all surprising that the obama administration the administration that promised the most open and transparent administration of all time is actually more actively pursuing a whistle blower's than even george bush well actually i don't think that the obama administration is moving as swiftly as some democrats have actually been calling for the administration to move so for example we saw a u.s. senator dianne feinstein who's the chairwoman of the senate committee on intelligence she's been calling for these charges to be brought by the u.s. justice department and we saw hillary clinton with a really strong response related to the state department information that was leaked but we haven't heard anything from president obama that's probably a smart political move defense secretary robert gates has actually been somewhat counterproductive in terms of saying well there wasn't damage caused the united states now backpedaling and saying yes there probably will be or was damage to united states and that's likely because the justice department called him up and said hey you could be ruining our case opes i thank you so much for joining us here

i just have to wait and see obviously what happens and it's going to be fascinating thanks. well there is more to this wiki leaks story as a sign she has made a statement from jail according to the new york times songes mother took down a statement from her son while he was being incarcerated in london's wandsworth prison not only did he say that he stays true to his ideals but this process has merely increased his determination that he's ideals are true and correct but he also commented on companies like visa and mastercard suspending services to the wiki leaks page saunders said we now know the visa master card pay pal and others are instruments of u.s. foreign policy it's not something we knew before and i'm calling for the world to protect my work and my people from these illegal and immoral attacks you know that might be a strong statement but i think the signs might be right here why would it be in the interest of visa or mastercard or pay pal to cut off wiki leaks isn't this the

government's battle in this case where many of these companies actually received requests to cut ties and protect the u.s. government they comply this is a rare instance but one that not should not be overlooked we're all it takes is a little bit of pressure from the government to keep in mind it really doesn't have that much influence over your business normally to cut ties with the whistleblowing site there's one country it's still standing behind asuncion wiki leaks iceland yes but country that serves as a safe haven for assad and his organization is threatening these corporations members of the icelandic parliamentary general committee have come forward saying that credit card companies that prevented cardholders from donating money to website could have their operating licenses taken away so it's interesting to see iceland become the protector of free speech and america the enemy of it is becoming more of an international battle by the day and won't go anywhere there's still much more to come on tonight's show you heard the dismal jobs numbers recently but those numbers don't account for the people who have stopped looking for work or are under

employed so we're going to talk in depth about the shocking number of people who are living in the shadows of employment. today. these are the images. of canada.

for the. first. face to face with. as you've probably heard by now last night richard holbrooke the obama administration's special representative to afghanistan and pakistan. he suffered a torn aorta and despite going through a surgery that lasted more than twenty hours he could not recover now according to members of his family some of holbrooke's last words were to his pakistani surjit reportedly he said you've got to stop this war in afghanistan and the washington post is claiming that was said in jest which perhaps makes it all the more point that a dying man knew that no matter what he said this war will go on this morning obama held a meeting with his war cabinet finalizing the review of the war strategy in afghanistan which will be released on thursday and he lott and holbrooke as a giant of u.s.

diplomacy we have to wonder if in praising holbrooke obama or anybody else in his war cabinet will remember those final words to stop the war when general david petraeus now in charge doesn't seem so realistic not only has he made statements in the past it he sees an american presence in afghanistan for generations but under his command airstrikes have more than tripled night rates have increased tanks even rolled into the helmand province so much for winning hearts and minds and on top of all this we can't forget as we mentioned yesterday that this has been the most lethal year for coalition troops fighting in the country and we're going to return to this topic on thursday and see if this review of the war takes reality into account. the news outlets across the country jumped on the news that unemployment rose to nine point eight percent in november just as benefits for the unemployed got tangled up with the obama tax deal but what if the numbers that we're hearing only tell us the story and the real numbers are much much worse artie's christine

introduces us to a few people cast in the shadows of unemployment. the numbers by any stretch are staggering we just got in the government's monthly jobs report it really was. supply meant on all counts and hope for some holiday cheer at the end of this long tough year but instead the unemployment rate last month rose to nine point eight percent nine point eight percent is the unemployment rate our various hourly earnings no changing by some estimates that rate which translates to fifteen million people is actually closer to twenty percent or thirty million people without a job the bureau of labor statistics conducts a survey of households to calculate the rate and considers people unemployed if they don't have a job have actively look for work in the prior four weeks and are currently available for work people like zack smith who we met at the unemployment services office he was using the computers there to try to find

a job to sell my house get rid of my car so it's just been a really very the most difficult experience i've ever had in my life he now stays with friends i'm a college degree good it's good skills good experience but no income since his unemployment benefits have run out i don't know how many others there are like me but that there may be quite a few so it's probably a lot worse than the figures that show. among those not counted college graduates who can't find their first job those who haven't sent out a resume in more than four weeks and those who simply would never be surveyed because they don't have a landline or a permanent residence that includes washington d.c. resident monica who did not want to give her last name out of work for several months she so far been in eligible for unemployment benefits and has not yet looked for a new job she and her young daughter aliya live in a friend's basement when asked

a car it is really hard to take care margaret she says some days she can't even afford to buy food i want to work i want to go to college get a good story to be able to. take care of her myself. in the city where the laws of the land are made a closer look at those left behind just one of many heads that have not and most likely will not be counted the unemployment line it is an image that came to embody the great depression the time when franklin delano roosevelt took office as president of the united states so here at his memorial it is a permanent reminder of that time in history but it is a history that for many americans is starting to repeat itself reporting in washington christine for. our team. well christine joins me now in the studio with more on this story christine when you were there at this unemployment services

center how many people did you actually see because they let you in with the cameras so you could fully grasp the amount of people that are there looking for work they would not let us in with the camera and it wasn't just the people for once that worked in this center it was the people that were there people filing for benefits trying to fight the fact that they did not qualify for benefits a lot of people in the waiting room there wasn't a line down the block at this one certain days they say are busier busier than others certain times of the month certain times of the year are busier than others . but nobody in their seemed to want to talk to us it was very very difficult to try to convince people to tell us their story to tell us their situation people have been unemployed a little bit longer usually are a little more willing to talk about it because they're more comfortable it's come their way of life but a lot of people who are unemployed for the first time in awhile you know it's not just hard on your pocketbook but it can be hard on your pride as well when i was wondering about that because you would think that a time like this when so many americans when forty five million americans are out

there you know essentially looking for work that maybe it's easier to talk about because you feel like you're not the only one in this bill that it's not your fault you don't have to be ashamed or embarrassed about it but i mean what are these people say well once you finally got the words out of that you know was there some kind of shame there a little bit and you know there was even sort of a little a little bit of a camaraderie that i noticed inside the center because even though the camera couldn't go in you know i went in and i was trying to look around and talk to people and there were did seem to be something in having these people know that hey you're not the only one there's a lot of other people like you. but you know it was difficult people are ashamed and they're embarrassed and they do say you know i know that i'm not the only one that most people have friends and family members in the same boat but that makes it difficult to ask for help i mean the woman that you saw in my report she's living in the basement of a friend. and she said you know i can always buy food for my daughter but i feel horrible asking the people who are already giving me a roof over my head to help give me food and you know she's even one of the lucky

ones because she still has a husband she still married and he's able to contribute a little bit. but they're having really really rough times and i think it's probably very rough for some of those people out there that are well educated that are well qualified the know that any economic any different economic climate they probably would be a top competitor out there to get a really great job rather than just searching for any opportunity the man you saw in my stories accident is a perfect example of this he went to college he worked for the government for years he even opened his own business he owned an art gallery on h. street which is so ironic because it's the same street that the unemployment office is in his he's been unemployed for several years he says when you hasn't been unemployed he's been underemployed meaning maybe working part time and therefore he's not counted as unemployed his benefits ran out and he was doing everything right he was using the computer at the center to try to look for a job and this is a person who's been told time and time again that he's overqualified for the jobs

that are available these are jobs think about it in fast food restaurants or things like that somebody with a college degree who's well spoken who's own his own business you know to not have anything it's so difficult and that's the thing is you hear people with ph d.'s and i mention this in my report also but people who went to college who have a degree but they weren't working before they don't have a job to collect unemployment benefits from so these are people in a lot of times you see them you know twenty five year olds degrees from harvard living with their parents with no prospects for a job and no prospects for income it's definitely depressing and you know we're going to go into this further in a minute but a big part of your story is the fact that a lot of these people don't even count as unemployed i can't imagine how discouraging that must feel when you don't even qualify to be part of the statistics there and to think that. the pics are not just a little bit off but they could be as much as double off not nine point eight percent closer to twenty percent not fifteen million people thirty million people

that's a lot of people out of work that's a lot of you know kind of bruises on the economy and it just sort of paints a picture of some of the struggles that lie ahead for all the things that need to happen thanks christine we're actually going to look into that right now so what do we call those people who don't even make the official lists are they completely forgotten are they living in the shadows it's a sobering reality to think that the figures are government releases every month the number is repeated analyzed on the media day in and day out but they only scratch the surface when it comes to the real depths of this recession or earlier i caught up with michael for an unemployment workplace issues writer at the examiner dot com then huffington post and the creator of the blog layoff list and i first asked him what the difference is in those reports that are out there the you three that's the official report of the government releases every month but there's also one called the six. you three is the standard b.l.s. billion labor force unemployment rate. nine point eight percent that was released

in december. but that doesn't include millions of both marginally attached workers which there's two point five million of them as well as nine million underemployed when you include the underemployed and the marginally attached then you end up with the you six number which is currently at seventeen percent but i was there something else out there too because you know in reading your piece you also mention a website called shadowstats dot com and they have an even higher never you know if we look at november the unemployment rate of the government gave us was nine point eight percent the you six said it was seventeen percent this website says that it's twenty two point six percent so where is he getting those figures. john williams of shadowstats came up with a an unemployment rate that included the long term marginally attached the b.l.s.

uses for there are marginally attached workers there's a shorter term marginally attached which are people who haven't looked for work. within a year or have looked looked for work within a year john williams of shadowstats has them include people who have not looked for work in over a year which were removed during the clinton administration so his. unemployment rate in clude those longer term marginally attached workers so that including those those ninety nine er's whom we know so much about these days why do you think it is though that when we hear the specifics every month when they give us the report for what the employment unemployment rate is in the country that they give us this this u three is b.l.s. rather than you know the bigger picture of what's really going on. i think it's easier for most people to digest a number that's close to ten or under ten minutes you know one in ten people are

affected by joblessness as opposed to looking at the overall problem is being not only joblessness but also under employment which is people that want to work full time but can't find full time work so they're forced to work part time and those jobs usually have less benefits they pay less they have less security less perks less retirement plan so it's a much larger problem when you include the underemployed and discouraged workers and into the equation you know the discouraged workers perhaps the most disturbing part of it all because then i guess hopelessness also comes into play here but what do you think would happen if the media really did give us these full reports of they admitted that the unemployment rate is far above ten percent would panic break out. it's hard to tell in some people wouldn't

care if it was thirty percent i think if you're affected by it it's a huge problem if you're not then it's not a big problem you know what the problem seems to be that it would raise the level of concern in people and that may be something the government and news organizations are not willing to share people well because maybe then they would hold their government more accountable to right maybe then finally and really set in that the government needs to do something about job growth in this country but here's the part that i never get is because every single month when we hear about these statistics the experts the economists so i say that the numbers are worse than what they had expected if they really know these other figures that are out there if they know the u. six rates and you know the even worse rates then why are they always surprised by these numbers. i think part of it is they're really detached from the real world

and how we how it's currently working number of these accountants that they work and. their standard recessionary business cycles so they look at this and say well you know if this and this happens then we're bound to get a this kind of improvement and unfortunately when you're going through a recession especially a jobless recession that we are going through now it's not the type of recession that is textbook so i think they're looking for textbook answers and not in a recession it isn't. written for textbook well defined as it seem like it's written for a textbook and you know what if we take other demographics into account what if we talk about college students that are that are just graduating their unemployment rates are much higher if we talk about black adult males i've heard that their unemployment rate could be over forty percent. that's absolutely correct the blank

teenage unemployment rate was over fifty percent in january now it's around forty percent hispanics is thirteen percent the unemployment rate for those over fifty five it's historically high levels so with it effects of a large demographic and it shows you that i guess that there is there's a lot of different levels here there's not only the people in washington in the range that aren't feeling the recession but there are other demographics out there that are feeling it far worse than perhaps the other americans michael thank you so much for joining us. thank you for having me. also to come on tonight's show the president of the organization in charge of the world cup has made some outrageous comments on him tonight's tools for to have more on that after the break and are you having trouble landing a job maybe it's time to consider working for yourself with author scott gerber about this concept and his new return.

to. wealthy british style it's time to rise on. the. markets why not. find out what's really happening to the global economy in cars a report on. india oh geez availability in the movie joins the photos a movie that's a great way to go to the ground in period truly told west coast coromandel you can a letter to the ocean as you say don't need to go and. read this in the kennel was

her job as a treat. i dropped a report from the council of europe claims that for the last decade kosovo's prime minister has been behind a mafia like structure responsible for organ trafficking weapons and drug smuggling kosovo government says the allegations are an attempt to discredit the liberation army. no christmas cheer for u.s. lawmakers to a new strategic arms reduction treaty with russia gets ratified democrats are pushing for the republicans to agree to the nuclear pact before they would. the majority needed to pass it in the senate if approved the treaty would reduce the nuclear stockpiles of both nations by a third. and the wiki leaks founder failed by a british court but his supporters fear the u.s. may still be trying to get him in there to be sweden wants to extradite chile on a connection with the allegations of sexual assault charges which are some.

time now for part two of the low to show up next they take a look at whether it's a conflict of interest for the supreme court to teach certain members of congress about the u.s. constitution it's coming your way next. well it's time for tonight's tool time award and it's fifo president sepp blatter he made a comment is drawing sharp criticism around the world blatter was discussing the two thousand and twenty two world cup of events that will be played in qatar along with being in the middle of a sandy desert middle eastern country also has a very strict rules for instance you can't drink alcohol there and homosexuality is banned so when blatter was as to what he would say to gay fans who want to go to qatar for the twenty twenty two competition given that homosexuality is big and he responded with the following he said i was.