to discuss washington's new immigration legislation i'm joined by martine petaca in washington he is the director of communications of the national immigration forum also in washington we have bob dane he is director of communications at the federation for american immigration reform and in new york we cross to deborah note came she is a lawyer for bars kamaal and kleiner and a member of the american immigration lawyers association and another member of our crosstalk team yell on the hunger all right folks cross talk rules are in effect deborah feyerick can go to you if i could do some up in a nutshell what the dream act is all about would allow undocumented young people a chance at citizenship provided that they attend college for at least two years or enlisting the army that seems fair way why is so many people against it and i guess if i can answer the question your poll of gallup poll on the third in six of this month had a poll on do you support or are you against the dream act for is fifty four percent

against this forty two percent for have no opinion so is that a good deal. it is a good deal it's also it should really be a no brainer it is giving a payoff to legalization to the most innocent victims of our broken immigration system children who were brought here as infants as young children through no fault of their own by their parents they're really our children we educated them they identify with being american many of them didn't even know they were undocumented and some of them don't even speak the language of the countries they were born in statistics show that these children if given an opportunity and a say it's going to take a long time for them to become citizens but at least they'll be regular allies that these children were contribute exponentially to our economy if given a path to legalization and it's not only a question of humanity it's

a question of how we can use immigration to help our ailing economy we're talking about failed to torrens class presidents the best of those who have had good records who graduate from high school and who ultimately go to college or enlist in the military it's going to take ten years for these young people to achieve permanent residence as long as they can establish good moral character all the way through most of them already speak english but they have to establish that they can speak english and understand us civics and then after they had it takes three years for them to become citizens so it's a long haul but it gives them an opportunity and for us to turn our backs on these really innocent victims in my opinion will serve us very negatively in history ok bob i mean debra just went through it is a checklist of things that these young people have to do it's not automatic nothing is automatic in this act here what's wrong with it it seems like it puts

a lot of demands on people who want to go through the process. well it's certainly a sympathetic group and the open borders amnesty lobby has always tried to use these children of illegal aliens who were brought here through no fault of their own in order to assure sort of sugarcoated amnesty but the devil is in the detail on this thing notice with great fascination that you can be up to the age of thirty and qualify for certain provisions under this law that's important because according to the pew hispanic center you've got about forty two percent of the illegal alien population in the united states under the age of thirty so clearly the dream act the so-called dream act is a massive amnesty plan disguised as an educational initiative and in the process of enacting this a act which by the way is aba billy not going to has the senate has we would be giving that we would be giving. we would be giving away

financial aid grants loans scholarships and very limited college admissions slots at the expense of u.s. residents and all to mentally the dream act is and there's no way to get around this fact it's an amnesty and like all amnesties it's fundamentally unfair to those who have come here to the united states illegally it rewards lawbreaking and most importantly it simply encourages yet another round of illegal immigration into the united states ok martin you would you want to jump in already go right ahead i'll be with you as i always say i disagree with bob go ahead he's got his facts wrong go ahead well first of all the congressional budget office did a score of this legislation and indicated that it would save u.s. taxpayers one point four billion over ten years not only that only one point one million citizens are now i'm sorry undocumented youth would be eligible under this plan you have to be younger than sixteen you get here you can't be over the age of thirty you had you would have had to have lived in the united states for five continuous years at no point after your you you would you would you would obtain

a. probationary legal status would you be a. eligible for any sort of means means tested federal benefits like medicare the new health care exchanges under the new health care law you would not be eligible for food stamps you would not be able to offer federal work study bob is going to use a lot of buzz words like amnesty in order to scare people but the fact of the matter is that this is not an amnesty these these kids work harder the best of the brightest of the immigrant community they want to serve the united states this is going to enrich our united states military this is going to enrich our education our institutions of higher education these kids want to be part of the fabric of america and i think that we should let them it's not a massive amnesty in fact deborah had it exactly right that they're going to have to be here for at least ten years on a probationary status even before they can become citizens and could potentially sponsor another immigrant whether it was a spouse or. a child they would not be eligible to bring extended family so bob's you know scaremongering about amnesty is just ludicrous and he knows it ok i mean

again there's the other they are ok i'm going to let the i had deborah go ahead. well also the grants and scholarships the pell they are not allowed to have pell grants the probations and in-state tuition until someone is legal is going to remain on the books and it's just it's just a myth that the that are the numbers that he shares i also i think i will reserve later this idea of demonizing amnesty because i i think that if we look at what happened under the old amnesty program it indeed legalized people who benefited our economy but it was a kid taking care of a symptom and not the care or we don't have means for these people to come here in a safe legal or early fashion and there are a whole sector of people who are needed to different times to failed shabbes and to

unify with their families and we haven't provided them the opportunity to do that center earlier and i really do have a means go ahead bob go jump in go ahead what we certainly do have a path to citizenship and it starts with getting in line and waiting your turn and in terms of labeling the dream act as an amnesty how can you do anything but i mean the opposition has always said that as long as you have to do something no matter how minimal then it's then it's not considered amnesty remember with the dream you know that your other guest had mentioned that the congressional budget office had shown that this would be a net deficit reduction the congressional budget office said it would be for the short term but over the long run it would be exhaustively expensive and the one gross under estimate of the congressional budget office on the dream act is how do you put a price tag on the fact that this will incentivize yet a now the round of illegal aliens who will figure that americans immigration policy

is a defacto amnesty every ten or twenty years the united states of america will enact an amnesty so we might well as. i mean those who are seeking entry into the united states illegally will act rationally they'll assume hate you know we did this in one thousand nine hundred six they did it in two thousand and ten might as well come in now and wait it out until my next dam the city and in the process the american taxpayer will be shelling out those cost and by the way the cost of illegal immigration in the united states right now annually is one hundred thirteen billion dollars for health care education and incarceration cost we can no longer afford martin you want to jump in and reply all of that when i was in first place yeah what bob is advocating what bob is advocating is the broken status quo i think all of the guests here would agree that the immigration system is broken but what bob's advocating is saying hey get back to an immigration at the back of an

immigration line that never moves what this bill does and it's part and parcel of comprehensive immigration reform it's going to give these kids a path to legalization it doesn't grant them automatic citizenship they have to earn it they have to prove that they want to go to an institution of higher education they have to prove that they want to serve in the united states military they have to pass the most stringent immigration criminal background checks and then they can't mess up for the entire ten years that they're here that's not an amnesty that's earned citizenship and that's what i think folks are reasonable folks support and you cited a poll that said that you know most americans don't well there are two other polls one from the summer of two thousand and ten and one from the november of two thousand and ten that say that sixty percent of americans want to get this done eighty percent of democrats i believe sixty percent of independents and fifty seven percent of republicans they see this is we do that it's common sense these kids are american in every way except on paper it is not an amnesty despite what bob is going to say repeatedly the congressional budget office did say this was

a net deficit reducer and it is and these you know what it's not just that you know these kids want to come here and become american citizens they want to contribute they want to bright future they want to be able to earn a live. provide for their children contribute to our economy and serve in the united states military and i think that's the kind of immigrant that the united states values the kind of immigration that we should be encouraging and that's what this bill does it's part of comprehensive immigration reform and the senate should act immediately to make it law ok deborah you want to the last word before we go to the break. yes yes i do i think we have to remember the advantages of immigrants first of all number one if you look at state by state in our states studies on this in almost all cases the contributions immigrants make including illit undocumented immigrants present a net gain in terms of taxes and entrepreneurial shift as opposed to the services through education that they take you right now were to fail or illegal we know

exactly what are you that's exactly right down properly deborah is exactly right i understand that they contribute in general and what we also know is when they're legalized they add more to our economy number two the fact of the matter is they at immigrant man according to the pew hispanic organization immigrant men between the ages of eighteen and thirty one are about a third less likely to commit crimes and be incarcerated than ever i mean to jump in right now and i'll let you finish your paul but you finish your point when we return after a short break we'll continue our discussion on u.s. immigration policy statements are.

chosen from among many. he was given a clear cut mission. a mission he successfully accomplished. became the first in her space. in the soviet union one of the best known persons in the. his thoughts were focused on flight. could he ever think that his life's work would cost him his line. one. second. and what she could feel the barrel is still. current. on r.g.p. . the official anti allocation. from the.

world cup. and. now with the palm of your. pick. welcome back to crossfire i'm going to remind you we're talking about the dream act . but before let's see what russians forget about immigration and dream to come true the development relief and education for and then minors act or the dream act is a bipartisan legislation is a goal is to solve

a great injustice in american society the app will the law children of undocumented immigrants to seek citizenship under certain conditions but critics say this reward illegal behavior and will never fix u.s. immigration laws according to the opinion poll conducted by the levada santa fifty one percent of russians support measures limiting immigration flows to the country and another thirty one percent believe the authorities should not establish mall berra's for immigrants the debate over immigration today is an integral part. globalized world. ok deborah i got to go back to you before going to the end of the break you talked about how immigrants actually contribute to society and i'd also like that maybe talk about a number of people say this rewards illegal behavior but if the dream act comes into into effect it would be rewarding people for acting within the law when it go ahead. yes it would these children did nothing to break the law in coming here and

this does not mean that we are legalizing the entire undocumented population and that may be a discussion for another time also let's get clear here if you look at what's happening our borders the illegal crossings are down to a spare because there are no jobs here and because it is difficult but the fact is that we know that immigrants as a whole contribute to this country studies from the old amnesty program have shown a man's gains once people are legalized by two thousand and six for example about sixty eight percent of them became homeowners and what we're doing here is legalizing the best in the brightest those that are. contributing that have finished high school that want to go on i want to quote another statistic for you so we understand the immigrant dynamic and how it it contributes to america the

american association of entrepreneurs reported that forty nine percent of all. successful entrepreneurs are indeed immigrants and in new york we can see this in how the asian community has renovated whole areas of queens and how now the central american mexican and proven population are restoring areas of brooklyn areas of of westchester county starting small businesses and so i think we have to get real here about what is happening they sed people are also consumers creating a tremendous amount of income exactly are legalized their ability to consume more is only going to help our economy and lastly if you look at a number of studies including one made by the state of texas in two thousand and six by this. trawlers office the amount of services it costs them for undocumented

immigrants as opposed to the amount of taxes they paid into the state indicated a net gain in revenues there are a number of other studies state by state put out by the immigration policy institute immigration policy center i'm sorry that also indicates that where there are large concentrations of immigrants it has been a net gain for these states ok when i do he even gives you going to what he has to say but as a bob bob how do you argue against that how do you. know you're well first of them bob how to react to that it sounds pretty convincing well you know if any of that is valid and maybe some of it is and i could certainly give you a laundry list as long as my arm about the net loss to our economy with illegal immigration then maybe we ought to have a public forum i mean you know the venue that this massive illegal alien amnesty

so-called dream act is occurring is a constitutional limbo it is the lame duck session of congress you know we didn't vote for amnesty in the last election several weeks ago we basically issued pink slips to dozens of members of congress and said no because it is not are these additional power for the last congress is just and so you know it is any. so why is why is amnesty on the table now except the fact that this is harry reid nancy pelosi is attempt to ram through something that the american public time and time again has rejected this bill has been around for ten years you know any other piece of social domestic policy of this is actually the right and so on can't really say i'm just trying to write a variant of occasions. my feet. are so you. can

see our teams about some degree of trouble so you. go ahead so. you know where belts doing a lot of just shoes on this although you are. the constitutionalists john is that he was there as it was has a jury trial this is in jail. they're not trying to please calm down all right martine finish your point i can't hear anyone ok go ahead my team. so my point was was that i don't know where bob is getting this constitutional limbo malarkey a bill passed in july is just as legitimate as one who that's passed in december whether it's a lame duck session of congress or not this idea that they're trying to ram through legislation that has been around for ten years that has been considered and passage initially committee with bipartisan support in two thousand and six is ridiculous in fact a number of folks on the republican side of the aisle are regional co-sponsors including senator orrin hatch i believe and not only did nancy pelosi get this through the house she got it through with eight republicans so this is

a bill that has bipartisan support in both the house and in the senate we're going to get republicans in the senate remains to be seen how many i'm confident that this bill is going to pass but the republican party has an interesting choice to make in the next. bit of the dream act either they left folks like lamar smith and bob who's who's now talking for them and dana rohrbacher who represent a very nativist and restrictionist and xenophobic frankly wing of the republican party they can either allow that faction to speak for the party as a whole or they can allow the adults in the room to do it and take this issue off the table for two thousand and twelve whoever they're pretty prospect of pretty presidential nominee is going to be because they already lost frankly three senate seats in the last election because their candidates were wrong on this issue in colorado in nevada and california so this is not an issue that has you know people are just trying to ram through it's not a surprise to the republicans because some of them are co-sponsors and it's bipartisan legislation and it's not something that folks should be scared about this has been around for

a long time and it's legitimate it's common sense it makes economic military. palosi and reid would not be trying to get it through the lame duck because they know that with the g.o.p. control where the republicans will with more of this for the foreseeable future in this massive amnesty the delicious side larry away from the four years well i'm going to carry just john. deborah jump in let's let's let's get away from the organizational procedural things because the only arguments the republicans really had that opposed this during the house debate was on the procedural issue with the exception maybe of congressman rohrbacher who who talked about basic who basically presented a very xenophobic idea that white kids he didn't say it that way but that's what he meant would be disadvantaged i think the. one thing that you have to remember and

the other thing i about that that congressman about what has been said by is this concept of get in the back of the line let's be real there is no line that's what created the problem in the beginning we have no legal visa for nonprofessional skilled and lesser skilled workers when employers need them and they are it's what we needed during an economic boom so we had jobs that went begging we had a porous border down which we don't have now we had people that crossed and brought these innocent children and contributed immensely to the american economy without a way to get legal there is no way for them to go to the back of the line because our congressman lamar smith passed a bell in nineteen ninety six saying that if you're here for one year illegally you have to go home for ten years before you get your green card there is no line for

these people and it is dishonest to say these people should go to the back of the line there is no line ok bob it's dishonest to ask people to go to the go ahead go ahead bob go ahead bob barr we we've been allowing in more legal immigrants than we have ever before for a longer period of time when you say there's there's no line you mean the line simply isn't large. enough i mean how many millions and millions more you seem to you seem to prescribe that there's a seemingly endless amount of free access into the united states once this dream act is defeated in the in the u.s. senate and you remove the politics which is what the dream act is really all about it's taking on documents on documented students putting them through nominal requirements to get through school or the military making them democratic voters then we're left with the hard and necessary work of restoring some credibility

having a serious discussion about what our immigration system is how many are we allowing in who why how is it serving our broad national interests our economy our social our cultural infrastructure and alternately job one once we get beyond this political fiasco is securing the border and reinstating meaningful interior enforcement of the state at the federal and the local level and holding employers accountable for hiring illegal aliens in a rickety economy when those jobs are needed desperately to buy and i'll let me jump in here tomorrow gene i want to give you the last word what happens if the dream act is passed what's going to happen. i just want to address something quickly and then i'll answer your question directly bob. this tired argument about how we have to do border security for first in an interior enforcement we spend seventeen billion dollars a year on this there's six hundred forty nine of that six hundred fifty three mile

fence what that wall fence at the border has been built it's never going to be enough it doesn't matter whether we're trying to dream or whether we're trying to conference immigration reform the excuse that nativism zina folks like bob are going to put up is that we need to do border security first and it's all right it's going to. be here we. can integrate it run out of time maybe some aid and we show you how did you guys to vote in the senate many thanks to my guest today in washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember problem.

all. in india. the movie joins the hotel room. the gateway hotel the grand imperial truly.

don't need to go. run to the kennel was hotel retreat. points the finger of blame at the internet. or a tsunami. joining me in just a few moments from the city. paralyzed by a national strike. pay cuts. money is being used to pay for the mistakes of corrupt politicians also. the final preparations are being made the head of the latest edition to the international space station will be having a look at the personal stories behind the. trading head of the exchange about the implications to business news in twenty minutes.

worldwide news live from moscow this is r.t. the prime minister is accused of having been the boss of a math involved in the trafficking of drugs human organs in a draft report from the council of europe. who just recently cemented power in the self-proclaimed independent nation it's also accused of being behind brutal assassinations the western community comes under fire as well for allegedly turning a blind eye to the war crimes. kosovo is reeling from allegations that its prime minister mr she is the head of a major feel like crime network connected to all aspects of all.