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tv   [untitled]    December 29, 2010 3:30pm-4:00pm EST

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it can hear dr swan's policeman's wives ministers why saturday i just prayed that if you didn't find me if i could slip through the night that i would get my kids out of here because i knew that what was going to happen was that he was going to kill me many victims don't understand that domestic violence includes verbal abuse psychological abuse physical abuse and sexual abuse at least four million women are affected by abuse every year those are my only two options that i saw at
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question. here in the russian capital you. a question. to find out how many more years behind bars the already jailed former russian tycoon was found guilty. for what he called unacceptable behavior thousands of stranded passengers and they were left to fend for themselves this comes after bad weather conditions temporarily shut down.
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the u.s. military budget grown money flows. some americans are wondering whether they are paying too much to the nation's was the federal debt hit its highest level sixteen years. and about thirty minutes time a few moments piddle of. israel's domestic and foreign policy is fueling it. welcome to the what needs to big splash in the world of high tech business what turns events science into i can't change products they don't understand oh he's
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this guy he followed russian innovators to easy bidders abroad and their big breakthrough back home spotlight on stories on technology update here on. the future coverage. alone and welcome to cross talk on people about anti-semitism is nothing new to the world and it's undeniable that it exists today however how should anti-semitism be defined and by whom. to discuss the uses and abuses of anti-semitism i'm joined by norman finkelstein in new york he's a political scientist and author in washington we go to jeff her he is
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a professor of modern european history at the university of maryland and in san francisco we cross to charles small he is the director of the yale initiative for the interdisciplinary study of anti-semitism and another member of our cross talk team yell on the hunger all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i don't want to be filibustering first i'd like to go to you charles in san francisco we hear a lot about the new anti-semitism today what is the new anti-semitism and how pervasive is it so i would say in a nutshell the new anti-semitism is an amalgamation of the different forms or strands of anti-semitism historically there is an element that is religious based that comes from the past there's also anti semitism to in some places that are still sort of biologically determined the racist type of anti-semitism and i think that the new anti-semitism really has as its focus the demonization and the deal is that i'm as asian of israel and there's a correlation between the two i did an article with
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a colleague edward kaplan and we showed we interviewed five thousand europeans in ten countries and there's a very powerful correlation between classical anti semitism i.e. how jews do in business and whether they integrate or stick to themselves questions along those lines the old. possible anti semitism and then we did a criteria that we called israel bashing extreme views of israel israel's an apartheid state and the like and we found that the people who have very strong views on israel that we called israel bashers in our study in the in our criteria if they answered five questions out of seven we would be considered israel busters of the population there fifty six but more likely or thirteen times more likely than the average population to be anti semitic in the classical sense as well so there's a strong correlation between the two though differences people who criticize israel are not necessarily anti semitic but there is a correlation that's off the charts if you will ok norman if i can go to you and you're an expert on this you wrote a book called beyond just on the misuses of anti-semitism in the abusive history
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would you agree with what charles had to say about what anti-semitism is today and how pervasive a pervasive babies. will be important facts about the new anti semitism as it's called is that it's neither new nor this i have anything to do with anti semitism every time israel faces a public relations debacle or comes under international pressure to settle the conflict with the palestinians diplomatically they allege that there is a new anti semitism so in the nineteen seventies the head of the anti-defamation league arnold forster he wrote the book the title was the new anti semitism. in the one nine hundred eighty s. that then head of the anti defamation the nathan perlmutter he wrote a book called the real anti semitism in which he said there was
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a new anti semitism in the early two thousand so when israel came under international pressure because of the repression of the palestinians during the second intifada there was again a whole slew of books and titled the new anti semitism the head of the a.d.l. now the anti-defamation league abraham foxman he wrote a book called never again the new anti semitism and after israel's nasser occur in gaza and the bloodbath in the mavi marmara the freedom flotilla once again we're hearing these claims about a new anti semitism and we're seeing this vast production of books many of them running to about a thousand pages alleging a new anti semitism the purpose of this is pretty straightforward first of all to turn the perpetrator namely israel into the victim the victim of anti semitism and secondly to discredit all of israel's critics as being anti semitic so as
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the very centrist israeli columnist you know mark is he put a few weeks ago in harvard's newspaper he said of patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels that anti semitism is the last refuge of occupiers israel's an occupier and uses anti semitism in order to discredit critics of the occupation ok jeff jeffrey do you agree with that little israel uses anti-semitism to discredit its enemies or what he defines as its enemies go ahead i can't think of a single thing that norman finkelstein just said that i think that i either agree with or that is true but we are. rather than respond to what he just said i'd like to make a point about. recent historical scholarship. there
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has been a shift in the center of gravity of anti-semitism globally from its historic roots in europe to the middle east. the old anti semitism was was a link to a radicalization of christianity and was inseparable from european fascism and naziism beginning in the middle of the twentieth century before the state of israel was founded during the rise of naziism and fascism in europe of cultural fusion began to take place between conspiracy theories in europe. and. an emerging new tradition called islamism not islam but islamism. which which interpreted the religion of islam as an inherently anti semitic religion and this is the new quality of anti-semitism in the world today found in the beliefs and actions of organizations such as hamas hezbollah are al-qaeda and most importantly
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the government of iran. the are the essence of the new anti semitism is that the state of israel exists in order to destroy islam. and that the solution to the middle east problem is the destruction of the state of israel four members of hamas the government of iran there is no distinction between anti zionism and hatred of the jews which they parade publicly again and again for all who are willing to read and see so charles i mean i have to go back to something we would normally have to say so israel's foreign policy or our prayer is proscar jump in norman go ahead. no no it was i was doing minister john vinson crosstalk rose go ahead bormann go ahead. i would be happy to answer where geoff has to say and i will in the moment but i would like to put
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a question to him just said that everything i said was not true so i would be curious to know if you can cite exactly which statements of mine were not true jeff would you like to reply to the description can give you these even you that's just me directly go ahead. now reply yes or go ahead norman finkelstein referring to israel's massacre in gaza this is a blatant falsehood. the there is no country in the history of the world. that attempted to defeat terrorists by sending several hundred thousand telephone calls to residents of apartment buildings in an occupied area or an area under attack warning them of attacks to come to describe this as a massacre is false the notion that israel is the perpetrator here is also something that norman finkelstein and others have repeated year after year
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there is a solution to the israeli palestinian problem it is simply a palestinian state in which jews can be allowed to live just as arabs live in palace in israel. the. references to various. directors of the anti-defamation league who referred to the new anti-semitism doesn't address the material in which which they were examining and so i would ask viewers of russia today to simply google the hamas covenant it's very easy for viewers to do google ambassador and read it yourself right charles wants to jump in and say that's his you know what it's going to say there is going to be very charles go ahead of john. thank you thank you very much i think i would like to go back to jeffrey's very important point earlier when you before you address the mormons or comments and he was just about to engage in no i think i would agree with jeffrey we should read the hamas charter it's amazing that there's a political social movement coming out of the iranian regime that the iranian
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people but this corrupt regime that supports hamas and hezbollah and others around the world with the alarmist perspective and lot more islam is not islam but radical political islam which in many using only in the name of trying to rid the region of all others all jews all chris. gins all gay people subjugating women and the like they use the protocols of the elders of zion if it wasn't so serious the hamas covenant and some of the statements coming out of the regime would almost be like a monte python skit but it's deadly and it's serious and the regimes of iran the hamas and hezbollah are using classical forms of european genocidal anti semitism to get credibility on the street and what's amazing to me is people like norman finkelstein and other so-called intellectuals are blaming the victim of this reactionary social movement that i would believe that nobody in their right mind in the west would have anything in common with if you believe in romans were already today's date so they don't listen to the ways of the jews and here to show these
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are these two against one on this panel so norman i'd like you to reply to what we've heard so far before we go to the break go ahead ok well and charles claim that this is a new phenomenon and in fact israel has always alleged that you know there are a number of design nazis and marching in the footsteps and jeff you really have to let me say never said that try to be courteous it's not so difficult trying to be a courteous and really did norman speak lisa or not easy or just you already please continue. ok i think peter said it will be no filibustering so in nineteen forty eight judge david ben-gurion the first prime minister of israel he claimed that the arabs were marching in the footsteps of hitler during the eichmann trial in the early one nine hundred sixty s. israel kept linking the nazis and hitler to the arabs and to the
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palestinians in fact at the time it was being said that is a most the of jerusalem was really out there might. the mind of the final solution solution and then we were told right gentlemen i'm going to have to jump in here ready to go to a short break and we when we continue to continue our discussion on anti-semitism state starting. to. wealthy british style it's time to explain the. markets why not scandals. find out what's really happening to the global
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economy in these kinds of reports on r t in india she's available in the movie going to join the hotels on the villains the gateway her to the grand imperial trying to tell us to polish coromandel you can to let her tell socialism to say don't need to go and. read this and the colonel was hotel as used to retreat. and. welcome back to crossfire. well to remind you we're talking about what some are calling the new anti-semitism. but before let's see what russians think about this issue hatred of jews the term and to semitism in fact denotes all forms of hostility and while ns against jews
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throughout history to date to encompass is social economic and political discrimination as well the russian public opinion research center all citizens what is their attitude towards and to semitism sixty four percent of the respondents comedown that phenomena and only six percent support it but despite the negative attitude towards displays of end to semitism and a host of polis to root it out many today speak about the emergence of new and to semitism back to. ok nominal like you finish up your point that we made an effort you made in the first part of this program but also what i would like to also ask is tailender that where does modern this new anti-semitism come from in your opinion go ahead norman. ok so then we were told nasser was hitler then we were told that saddam hussein was hitler and now we're being told
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that. this is where hamas is hitler has. this is curious coincidence that whenever israel and the united states want to launch a war of destruction the war of death and destruction the war of aggression they claim that their adversary in the arab world is a hitler or a nazis mr. small they keep pointing to the hamas charter and there are many things no hamas charter there or this vehicle just on the statements made by israelis there are despicable so rabbi ovadia. the spiritual leader of the shanty already which is in the north and then finishes point in their coalition finishes. the head of the spiritual leader of us he calls for the extermination of the palestinians he's called for the enslavement of the goyim in slave mint of non jews we had prime minister begin who
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called powers than the ns two legged b. we had pride in the caveats on any measurable he was going to do thank you cockroaches you made your point thank you charles go ahead and i want to go to jeff after that i think that. i think that what's in amazing there's a sort of a relativism and i'd even say a kind of a paternalistic colonial type of remnants of racism here we have to study as professor her photos and others the ideology of hamas of hezbollah of the regime and respect it and take it very seriously and understand that it's not just about blaming the victim i think there's been a tendency in the in western philosophy and historically to blame victims we used to blame the victim the women who were raped we used to as a society blame them the more they were there they were doing if african-americans or other people were marginalized and unemployed we used to call them lazy we used to blame them and now for mr finkelstein to actually blame israel the jewish people
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for anti-semitism is unbelievable he's almost like the chief buthelezi of the anti-apartheid movement who used to say everything was ok and so that africa when we knew it wasn't there is a radical movement that is afoot and i'm choosing my words extraordinarily carefully that is no less than genocidal and it's anti-semitism and we know from history that anti semitism begins with jews but it never ends with jews once this hatred is unleashed they attack other the disease of hatred attacks other segments of society so if you care about women's rights if you care about the rights of gay people if you care about the rights of bahais and religious pluralism if you care about the basic notion of citizenship you need to take this explosion of the summit to islam in the middle east seriously and the human rights community in the west needs to address that jeffrey you want to make a point been responding i think to what norman was saying or go ahead yes yes i'd like to make the following point russia is a country with a great tradition of scholarly and intellectual work and i want to address my
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remarks to the viewers who consider themselves part of that tradition the journalist the scholars the public citizens and i want to draw your attention that in recent years there's been a burst of scholarship by historians in germany in the united states and. israel that documents the realities of anti-semitism in the arab and palestinian world before nine hundred forty eight the links between some members some members of the arab nationalist movement and the nazi regime and the post-war prominence of husseini in the palestinian movement a man who participated and supported the nazi regime during world war two now neither charles small nor i have said ahmadinejad is hitler or a mosque is hitler we have not made such simple compared to jeff you big but what do you think when you write in reaction i think you're a patient i've been you pay what you write in mr small right creates anti-semitism
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i don't think that does but some of the things that the israeli regime is what norman is saying can generate that i think that's what norman said i want to put that i want to by the way to make another point to viewers head to the russian visitors to international viewers jeff to the whole world it's ok internationally and i could make it but i'd like to make a point indicated khrushchev made about stalin in his nine hundred fifty six secret speech in moscow khrushchev said that stalin ignored all the warnings that were coming about the impending invasion of the soviet union by nazi germany and the lesson that khrushchev drew and the lesson that germany that historians of the nazi regime have drawn is that one must never underestimate the power of ideological fanaticism and that's the reality that we're facing today when people such as the leaders of the last year or in some very for this kind. started to run you are familiar with this term because are her i don't really even to the extent of our mr finkelstein you were very well and you were interrupted his armor is just we were
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told that saddam hussein. never letting anyone spring you remember in two thousand and three it was for all that saddam hussein was where we were told we were told that anybody who opposed the american attire. iraq was in a lot of these sort of you said other than the disease or the ongoing would you a very radical islam so so now so now it's a certain so now it's the same tune all over again so you are a little bit off my dina jihad as hitler whenever we're being told it has no right or we're being told that everyone is you know me i see where the united states who wants the n.r.a. in the injured only see the army major point jeff jump in and then i want to go to charles go ahead jeff again i want to address myself to the viewers of this program who like to read books. take a look at not only my work the work of robert we stretch of martin cooper's of but . of esther web of my or link that of boston t.v.
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there is paul berman there was a burst of scholarship and intellectual engagement in recent years that is important you can agree with it or you can disagree with it but please do not dismiss it look at the evidence look at the evidence. can we talk about that scholarship now peter about that yes i well and norman i'm sorry charles go ahead because the scholarship was mentioned here although there's a lot of competing scholarship out there norman go ahead ok so jeff her mentions robert wish to choose a book i don't fracture of her role there were raving blurb for the book the book is called lethal obsession now happens i purchased a copy of the book it's about twelve hundred pages and i looked in the end and i know this. probably the exhibit number one of the new anti semitism there are more entries for me in the book than there are for david duke there are more
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entries for me than there are for. them and there are more entries for me than are are for david irving so let's see look at. me the book we're dealing with the same it is the only. her book the book that mr her indorsed because since the book that you just named you said robert we're stretching this book so let's look at it. he says are american self hating jew and i'm a holocaust and i'm a holocaust denier well this is the book they're cefn i mentioned so let's talk about it or he said i'm a self-hate if you do and a holocaust denier peter please tell them to let me speak continue norman you are in the snow filibustering. finish your point norman ok thank you so he calls me a self hating jew and
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a holocaust denier so i want to put this question to mr her who gave a raving review for the book a blurb for the book i want to put this question to you mr hurd i wrote two books pertaining to the nazi holocaust one of them a nation on trial coauthored with ruth but tina byrne was named the notable book of the year the new york times sunday book review the second book the holocaust industry was showered with praise by the dean of holocaust istari in zero will hilberg who called the book a breakthrough and he also was very generous news praise about me as a historian he said talking about lace is a misery as a historian is so sure and so yes we are we're talking about you there's a sure thing if you don't listen to this there are a lot of things i want to ask you so i want to i want to ask you do you think the new year do you think their role hilberg is a holocaust denier ok that's
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a question jenny the answer is now the norm is the norm and all that just answer the question please go ahead jeff a month ago a month ago i delivered the raul hilberg memorial lecture at the university of vermont. it was an honor to do it and i'm very proud of is the. thank you. of course he's not a holocaust denier he was a great historian of the holocaust. that doesn't mean that i agree with everything that he has to say i'm glad very glad that you brought robert as a lethal obsession to the attention of the viewers of russia today it's a very fine book joel should arrange the security of why do you think oberoi fraser took a book about to come in and. commit to really well i'm a serious star and i'm not used to this kind of this kind of nonsense the. rabbit was to his book deals sure enough there you have it you just you're out there in
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just. over twelve hundred pages the book is very very marriages. would you please stop interrupting me it's a remarkable assessment of the history of anti-semitism in europe it's diffusion to the middle east and i might add for russian viewers there are several wonderful chapters about soviet anti-semitism and the role that the soviet union play from the one nine hundred sixty s. to the one nine hundred eighty s. in spreading anti-semitism and anti zionism around the globe so will be a particular interest for viewers of russian t.v. all over the world already taking the numbers for each and every time we've really run out of time here many thanks to our guests today in new york washington and in san francisco and thanks to our international viewers for watching us here or to see you next time and remember cross talk rules.

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