they were ninety nine from good to have you with us this summary of our top stories now for you russia mourns the airport bombing victims as people gather the doma did a bit to pay tribute to the thirty five killed one hundred of those injured remain in hospital some still in critical condition. and it is opening keynote speech at the economic forum in switzerland the medium event of said terrorists were trying to bring russia to its knees with monday's suicide bombing but the president insisted they had failed and called for global solidarity against terrorism. plus russia's upper house of parliament unanimously ratifies the nuclear reduction deal with the us the final step before being signed by the president the treaty will see

each nation's deployed warheads reduced by a third. more news free in less than thirty minutes from now here in the meantime some fiery debate in the latest edition across talk as people live out in these guest look at the implications of a has been a controlled government in lebanon that's coming next on our. if you can. locate welcome to cross talk i am peter lavelle a country in turmoil a country divided lebanon faces the prospect of a government controlled by hezbollah will lebanon's democratic choice find the

country in danger but then and upon for others in the region. to discuss the political situation in lebanon i'm joined by alistair cooke in beirut he's director and founder of the conflicts forum in new york we go to tony battering he is a research fellow at the foundation for defense of democracies and in london we cross to patrick seale he is a british journalist and author of the new book the struggle for arab independence all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want there are differences of opinion on this panel and i want my viewers to see it alister year in beirut just an hour or two hours ago we word came out that indeed hezbollah hezbollah sponsored by minister will has been appointed by the president of lebanon and will be confirmed in a matter of hours probably twelve within twenty four hours on wednesday they're

calling it the day of rage but this is all been done constitutionally hasn't. it hires and you're wrong to call the prime minister designate hezbollah person and fact he stood. as one on the hariri list in tripoli and he's in march the port so he's an independent businessman you can't describe him. as well a nominee so i think it's wrong to say that and furthermore he's been very clear that he's creating a unity government an independent government this is not going to be a hezbollah government it's going to be a government of national unity under a sunni prime minister are right patrick it can't be a government of national unity because just as i was sitting down in the studio here to do this program i was watching the pictures coming out of some of the cities in lebanon and there's a lot of rage the day of rage i mean is there going to be continued national conciliation a government of national unity because if you look at mainstream media here of

course they are painting the worst possible scenarios here. because we have to point out to our viewers that the united states and a few other countries in the world not the majority of countries in the world identify hezbollah is a terrorist organization. what we are witnessing today is the culmination of a process which began more than forty years ago with the awakening of the shia community level. under them the under the man with the center now what is given them a tremendous philip of course was the two israeli invasions of seventy eight and eighty two the eighty two invasion killed seventeen thousand people and the israeli state eighteen years until they were pushed out in two thousand now they in a way their occupation created as bella has but as a resistance movement to occupation and oppression now they've come a long way in these forty years and they've now allied themselves with a medical journal i woman who represents how who represents half the christian

community and with the druze so it's not alliance of hizbullah the christians and the druze and they form this government this of course is very bad news for the united states and israel who continue to describe these the gypsum of resistance movements as terrorism this is a q.j. era of american foreign policy one of one of many ok tell me if i can go to you so good news coming out of beirut today and tomorrow. no absolutely not and i contest very much what both your guest said first of all with regards to allister's statement that this is constitution and let's not forget that the reason why his bill that was able to topple the government was because it up to heretical innovation called the veto third in the government in the previous government and it did so by invading neighborhoods in west beirut and the mountain by force of arms killing innocent people and that's how that led to obtaining

a third in the last cabinet that enabled it to topple it second it even in that agreement hezbollah had pledged not to use that veto third and it lied and used it again and now even when he has told a couple of times now that he has been under extreme duress and pressure from hezbollah in order to move in this direction and so i mean there is a lot of intimidation and bullying to call it constitutional is a mere facade and actually a charade and even the prime minister how did he himself referred to in makati as hezbollah's candidate he said there is no independent there is no consensus there is no compromise there is me and there's hezbollah's can that is hezbollah can do that and as you can see by this and the reaction in his hometown of tripoli where he controls where he represents a mere few neighborhoods of the reaction has been incredibly angry at his at his nomination at the hands of a shia group that is accused of killing the former prime minister of lebanon ok

alison we've heard this all before. ok ok i guess this is the same kind of. media. story that we hear all the time that hezbollah is just a terrorist group and it's. in the eyes of the majority of people of lebanon they are the largest political party in the country. oh that's correct they have a you have to look at the last election in fact in the last election in two thousand and nine in the parliamentary election we saw in march the fourteenth at that time on fifty five percent of the parliamentary seats but it was done only on forty five percent of the popular vote and it was done with a huge the bench and or money from saudi arabia and with a full turn out of the sunnis in other words the political base theater i have a date objective if i am there you know it's been a national finish and all you know now it go ahead finish up ouster it's been it's all been narrow but the basis i want to come back to because after what we've just

heard from tony but brian is wrong lebanon has never had a government in the way in which the western states have a government it is a power sharing arrangement it is not a government by which one sect one group dominates and has had germany over the others it's if you like a four legged race in which the main force sects are tied at the ankle together and struggle as best they can towards the finishing line now what happens and what has happened recently has been that one group has tried to if you like use a western style view that there is an absolute mandate for anyone who has a majority in parliament to use against other sectarian groups and there's been naturally a very strong reaction against that and that's part of what the problems that we see and which we're facing today finally on the point of the day of rage there are sporadic elements of violence but actually there's been a very small turnout of protests both in tripoli where they had to delay the

protest in fact because not my people turned up to begin with they had to postpone it so they've been. in l.o.l. months of violence to be mostly sunny sunni violence not against the shia community but in tripoli against perhaps some of those peace particularly against. one of the from tripoli who voted for me vote for hariri so it's not quite just presented ok tony you want to reply to that we are finished go right ahead well i mean i don't want to dwell too much on it but the what he said about the elections is incredibly skewed and misleading i mean yeah there were money from saudi arabia like there wasn't money from iran and there wasn't money from qatar and elsewhere i mean let's not let's not joke ourselves here and the other thing is with regards to the percentage of the population where the electorate election happened i mean mr neglects to tell you that for instance in areas in south lebanon where hezbollah won there has not been even a contestant from the march fourteenth. coalition so there has not been

a popular turn out to begin with so i mean the entire picture that he paints is incredibly misleading but be that as it may the notion that somehow has been as a large group it's the group that has the largest weapons in the country it's an armed group that has attacked other people so to leave that aside and describe it as some sort of a legitimate political party like everybody else some sort of a civil society n.-g. o. is incredibly misleading ok patrick i'll go to you. on what tony had to say here because i hear this all the time in the mainstream as well is that hezbollah is the most powerful most popular because it has the most force that it can use it it's an armed group you hear that all the time how do you reply to that. well look it is the biggest party in lebanon perhaps the only real party if it is not only the strongest force in lebanon because the state is weak it also has a very volatile program it represents the oppressed people of the south and the

who suffered terribly from israel's constant invasions and incursions so it's not surprising that they feel very bitter about this now what's happened today i think is a very very encouraging thing this government is much more representative than it's be. it is an alliance of half the christian community with hezbollah which represents forty percent of lebanon's population as. allies. look there hasn't been a census since nine hundred thirty two but most people would say the figure is close to forty percent so with half the christians been on druze the way over the fifty five percent well today you say not true not true what you're seeing is total nonsense and you know it's like going to give you an answer is your side their side the facts i think the numbers there are a numbers that's right as a fact the syrian cities are united in fact twenty nine percent and if anything the

sunnis have a nice miniscule edge over them and you know this patrick you know it's really the study of the demographic that is. the fact is tony you don't want to accept you don't want to accept shift in the power base in lebanon this is happened and as i say it started forty years ago and it's a reality today and this government has to be encouraged now we should stress that . the head of the has said repeatedly that he respects lebanon's institutions its constitution. seeking power by himself he wants a national unity government it's the high really cried crowd was saying they will never join this government so this is a very. that is the least corrupt by far of any of the political groupings of the lebanon it's a remarkable organization and i wish them well i was trying to give you the last

word before we go to the break here and go ahead. yeah i think it does provide as patrick says an opportunity it's an opportunity to get back if you like to an earlier form of levantine politics which is about power sharing and about partnership and trying to find a national consensus and i think this does give it to chance to do this under mikati and to move away from the polarized language the polarized politics that have been presence really basically since two thousand and five all right gentlemen to jump in right here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on lebanese politics stay with our.

new the latest in science and technology from around russia. we've got the future covered. kiki. welcome back to rostock i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about the events being played out in lebanon. ok tony and i have to go to you because it's been kind of turned into a two against one thing here is i want to give you

a little bit more time here to get your position out right gentlemen the first part of the program we talked about domestic politics and what's going on in lebanon now let's say it's kind of widen this out right now because it it lebanon is in a very important as a very small country but it's a very important country in a very volatile region tony if i can go to you i mean we haven't talked about the u.n. tribunal at all and a lot of people say this is why hezbollah pulled the plug on the government because it doesn't want to face what it believes what many people in international media say as an indictment it could be. followed up against the members of hezbollah off of the assassination of the former prime minister so. do you think that well what do you how do you reflect upon that this political crisis in this political process and the international dimension. yes i mean i mean that was what that was what i was mentioning earlier i mean alistair mentioned that this is the government now which hasn't been yet formed is somehow more representative but in the past government has. and everybody was represented and hezbollah had veto power in that

government which is why i managed to topple it so it wasn't an issue of representation very clearly it was an issue about abrogating lebanon's protocol of cooperation with the special tribunal for lebanon which was funded under chapter seven of the united nations security council and to stop all commitments by lebanon to cooperate with this tribunal in lebanon share of funding this tribunal and this is again something that has been promised and lied about in the agreement one of the articles that set up that previous government was that hezbollah not only would not use the veto authority to topple the government but that it would respect and cooperate with the tribunal for lebanon and now it has reneged on this and it has it's going to and it toppled the government and it's trying to set up a charade and if we've got the. likely it's going to be a so-called technocratic government so that hezbollah thinks that's clever so that it avoid being dubbed the hezbollah government which everybody knows that it's what

it's going to be and it's the first order of affairs is going to be to abrogate the agreement and stop lebanon's cooperation with it as though that's going to make a difference i don't think it's going to make much of a difference with regard to the tribunals work but that's what hezbollah is doing because hezbollah is very nervous because it's it knows that it's going to be members of its party are going to be accused. as being operatives in the in the assassination of rafik hariri probably in the go with the syrians who are the main military men at the time ok i'm not really sure why it would be such a bad idea to have a hezbollah government i guess that comes from a us perspective patrick if i can go to you lot of people not only and hezbollah but a lot of other people say this all to you when tribunals stacked. case against hezbollah from the start of the. we're going to it all of the evidence just was pointing into that direction to make sure this was the way the u.s. can get rid of one of its nemesis in the region one of obviously israel's nemesis as well. is i just being cynical or is that plausible. you know it's more than

plausible i mean it was highly politicized from the start it was as well blood said the other day it became an instrument for political blackmail the whole idea was to try and. the syrians damages claim that they were responsible no evidence being produced we must wait for the evidence now says that israel committed this crime well israel we have to accept has a long history of political assassinations they tried to kill the very first prime minister of independent lebanon we had to settle there a very long history they tried to kill khaled mashal in a month they just recently killed somebody in dubai they recently killed. in tehran so they have a long history of using force to eliminate to eliminate their political opponents tony if you want to if you want to defend the israeli record go ahead we're

listening to you very interesting actually are battling is that this is having. on you yourself as well it doesn't compare with israel's i must say israel commits . ok i want to go. again this u.n. tribunal is it just being used as a stick because you know you we can put on this side here is this whole tribunals thing it's the outcome is obvious for many people in the region not according to u.s. media in the u.s. state department obviously and of course you know according to the israelis but. we seeing a showdown here because this is it seems to me this is exactly what the united states wants i mean actually they must be secretly very happy that has well have a lot more control in the government even if it's not a hezbollah government because of the hostility that they have towards hezbollah and against iran and against the syrians i mean bombing you know has another war on its hands and plenty of people in the states would just love to go down that path

especially israelis. oh well you all right it's exactly as it's addressed and all you know life is the go ahead allister alister. it was exactly the us it was the old form of domino theory that if you could weaken his boiler it would be a slap for syria which would be damaging to iran and all of those together would make israel feel safer in the region and that was how it was conceived first of all targeted on syria and now it is on hezbollah and it is being a political instrument and it was devised as a political instrument and i think there is not much sadness there will not be much sadness or the sun but some people but not much sadness if it disappears because from lebanon's political scene because it has been highly divisive it has been highly polarizing and very dangerous for all the sectarian groups in most country so if it disappears it will be i think seen as positively and particularly recent

polls show that nearly sixty eight percent of christians also would like to see it removed from the political agenda here christians who are not within this if you like the immediate environment of this conflict so i think it is very much a strategic it's clearly had the methodology the processes of all being questioned and of course from the start it was that if you like the chalice was poisoned by the use of of witnesses or or perjurers who came forward and who gave false evidence that i think of it still remains to be investigated ok journey got to you got the floor go ahead. yeah i mean it's amusing to hear hezbollah talking points but we all know this anyway but this is i love how patrick says we need to wait for the evidence and alastair cook has already determined what the tribunals politicization is without knowing the first thing of what he's saying

second with regards to these false witnesses or whatever the tribunal has been more than clear about the type of evidence that it has and what use it has for these people with or even if it considers them as witnesses or as suspects or not including the people that were planted by the syrians like mr hussein for instance in order to deliberately derail and mislead the tribunal this was a criminal act by itself but you know mr crook thinks that the us manufactured all these people that it's it's absurd what is being said here that the notion somehow it should disappear law and accountability for murder and assassination should disappear and a westerner is saying this this is appalling you know we have sure let let you know let the political assassinations be done then in lebanon and then we call it the democratic process when the people who kill them form a government of their own when they've killed their enemies and it's this is i mean

this is really outrageous just like i had to come back and i'd like to come back. first of all what we're talking about here in terms of the it's been quite clear from the prosecutor that we're not talking about justice or trial in evidence in the way in which we normally think about it he said very clearly that as far as he's concerned so it comes to actual evidence can be better than direct evidence circumstantial evidence which would never hold up you see that in the court in europe secondly. the point that we are trying to make is of course no one seen the evidence. and you cannot see any you said himself. circumstantial evidence and circumstantial i think you tell your contacts and it's only a small there are certain stars there are material you have all this is are and it will be a complete. trick you jump in there go ahead jump and p.p.p.

to jump in i mean i think that this debate about the special tribunal for lebanon is pretty sterile because we have to wait for the indictment now what just to go back on your other point about the regional implications i mean we are seeing a shift in the balance of power in the region you see for the last six decades israel has ruled supreme militarily with american backing now we're seeing a shift we see the this axis of tehran damascus has but now this axis is set itself up as opponents of the of the us israel israel to germany and it's doing rather well and the fact that this government change in lebanon this is a triumph for them now this axis has had has gained support elsewhere skin support from turkey has gained support from qatar and. israel's strategic environment has

deteriorated has changed they didn't want anybody else to be able to to resist them not to hit without being hit back without being hit back and that's that is that has been the problem and so you get you get non-state actors like hers but a lot like how it's backed by their friends syria. iran and also turkey one has to say and i think. rick i think you can through sr i think you can throw in iran iraq now ok. ok well of a post plus possibly iraq after the horrific war in iraq pushed by the neocons by people like paul wolfowitz and their friends i mean which which is back up to the america which destroyed a major arab country and changed the whole balance of power in the gulf region in favor of iran ok patrick i want to jump in here i want to get i want to give tony the last word what's the future of the region because of this recent of these recent events and now in lebanon go ahead. well i mean i think what what patrick is

saying is is still grossly exaggerated but nevertheless i think what's more interesting in the back and when talking about the balance of power is the talk is to talk about the balance of power within lebanon and to see how dramatically serious power has diminished in all of this and to the to the benefit of iran and hezbollah i mean what we're seeing i mean there is no government yet so i mean everybody's anticipating the government is a government this and a government that's a nonsense this is utter nonsense. all right gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we've run out of trying to move on our time and i can all get together when there is a formal government many thanks to my guest today in new york and london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk please.

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