his top stories come from our moscow desk at they gyptian president says he will dissolve the government but remain in power and terms of problems defined curfews to clash with police and the country's forbes i haven't read comparisons outrage of a made between bed rest of the arab world unbecoming of a nuisance and pose something untrue as over the past decade. russia's state duma is considering time to security measures including any i wanted to have a warning system up to monday so some of the much moscow is dominated by a point which is that a problem down the level of the professionals all right a bit of thing is going to happen. and again you can bet on start of the redemption trees when moscow and washington is signed by the president or that of the first such agreement in two decades it's most effective from the students at the time of

the next month concerning weapons but then. there's the headlines up next debate charcoal store where people about on his guests discuss whether documents and punish student israeli relations recently unearthed by al jazeera have caused a shadow on the middle east peace process. and you can. still. welcome across an archive you're a little a huge embarrassment for

a last historic opportunity the release of over sixteen hundred documents covering a decade of negotiations between the israelis and palestinians show a pattern of deceit powerlessness and despair. and you can. start. to discuss the meaning of these leaked documents i'm joined by omar badar in washington he's a political scientist and promotes human rights in miami we go to each eye flasher he is the host that israel national radio and director of cooma and in tel aviv we cross to my one mary she's a freelance journalist and writer and another member of our cross talk team you know on the hunger all right folks cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want if i go to my in in israel in tel aviv i'm going to be very blunt here after reading these leaked documents it seems they mean one of the biggest lies of the last decade has been exposed for what it is is

a lie and that is is that we have heard repeatedly in mainstream media from the state department all the way to the government in tel aviv successive governments that the israelis have no partner for peace in the middle east that's a blatant lie and we know what now by these authentic documents my goodness the palestinians were willing to give away not just a kitchen sink but the whole farm for peace and the israeli said no. yeah i think that the palestine papers prove without a doubt that really it's the palestinians that had no partner for peace the palestinians were more willing to go the lie all and nothing seemed good enough or as are all but land land land land that's what it comes down to the israelis don't care about peace they want as much territory as they can get and so you know what we've been seeing is the israelis dragging their feet and building settlements at the same time they're building facts on the ground so the more they have on the ground you know the less they have to give away and that seems to have been the

strategy. what this shows is that the it's very interesting i almost want to say that seems to me the leak must have come from the p.a. that appears trying to distance itself from these papers but really they will serve the p.a. and the outside international community because it makes the p.a. you know it runs the risk of making the pay look pathetic at home while sympathetic abroad and it's one more piece of evidence that israel is not really a partner in the peace process and that the world needs to step in and help the palestinians build a state just like the one helped israel build a state in one nine hundred forty seven you know with the u.n. vote in one nine hundred forty seven that established that helped to establish the homeland for the jewish refugees now we have palestinian refugees that you know need a state desperately and israel is not going to get someone to mention the fate of

the. maybe the fate of the palestinian people when it comes to international community but he said if i go to you in miami how do you reflect upon what my just said because it look you know we've always heard i'm going to merican so i grew up always being told that the powers these really have no real partner i mean these these documents certainly tell a completely different story how do you reflect upon the documents and what in our what our first guest had to say. well i think the documents definitely show that when israel demands to own its capital the people believe it and that even our challengers will say you're right this is your capital city and i think that israel should continue to say that about all its land the land that was given to it by the way of the alpha land that is our historical homeland the land that we were dispossessed from and therefore we just have to be strong and tell the truth which is this is our land and we should not give it away and i think the proves that the palestinians will back down if you just say the truth which is this that it's your

right but if you look at the documents used to you let me say jack if you look at the documents these were negotiations if you read the documents these are negotiations so then again that's being disingenuous because if you don't believe in these negotiations why are you pretending to be involved in these big oceans you can't really have it both ways so go ahead me go ahead go ahead agree with you one hundred percent sure if you really mean if you want to just say there are no yelling. and there was no claim to. only no i'm going to. i want to. be well if that's what you think. and that's why. folks like you just like international law don't talk about international law and the minute omar you've been listening to this discussion going on crosstalk early on in the game. well i mean look what you said is absolutely correct there is a peace process that is based on the idea that israel would withdraw from the

occupied territories to facilitate the creation of a palestinian state that's the entire idea behind the two state solution now i'm hearing rabbi fleischer correctly he's basically saying that he opposes the entire idea of a two state solution which actually puts him outside of the mainstream consensus internationally on how to resolve this conflict and that is perfectly fine i mean if he wants to say that we don't want to lose state solution this is a big terms like international consensus i know that the arabs as in the streets of the arab countries are very upset and i don't know any of the leaders the risk you know that's going to face those rescuers and. eastern jerusalem have said over what is their size they want to. bring some very interesting home i and other to run another interesting point and it was probably no gentlemen tired of that. freedom you should please release another thing that was brought up in these here and and it was mentioned earlier like we have in israel what ok ok what kind of role the palestinian authority was playing here because it looked like it was very much

a pond of the united states as well and i want to talk about the fate of the palestinian authority later but again you. brings a very good point i think the arab street is angry in the greater middle east and they should be upset because all of america's dictators are in trouble right now ok good let him rise up let them have democracy and the palestinians should have a little lot more democracy too so it really kind of the point here is if usually doesn't want to have. radical arab rulers you know i think what that's one thing here we all have to agree with and which seem to color all have to do with their own go ahead i'm going to get a lot of what are the right i'm going to get i will be running for a family are not going to get it under israeli occupation and we're not changing the subject you know what i was going to do with all signs you're going to get they're not going to get it under palestinian occupation either they're not going to get another pal. so you know occupation you mean i mean i don't know if you know your idea of a russian any american has to be occupied by the israeli i mean i mean i mean why

what is there i love this i'm there if i want i'm sorry i was in the colony and he was out to turn and out of she did some merrier. i'll tell you how little you know if you have national liberation movements and friends of war i mean you know you're with. me since you've been here because the are you just. have to jump in go ahead you have the floor look if if if you're going to invoke historical terms and you're going to invoke thousands of years of history to say that some sort of. religious connection to the land from two thousand years ago justifies returning to it then certainly that should apply to the palestinians as well now i don't think the rabbi actually supports palestinian refugees right to return to their homes in haifa and elsewhere and that's the double standard here is that if you don't want to two state solution i suppose when i say israel the realities on the side so i saw out the arab world the arab countries would let arabs live normally in their countries you know it's so funny how you folks are talking about arab rights to these i'm not saying that as i us anyway they don't how are you doing there who don't have rights

and mine give them arab rights throughout the arab world stop. where john lewis is on you know on this road when we're talking about it was on his progress and i listened and i took any reason for the jewish i was listening out and we're not going to give them up we have right really wish and we still have the rights based on fellow students on the radio says there. is no lies there is also you see how denying it now mr feist are you listen for a second don't you see how denying the palestinian rights of its arms and. equivocal to denying the gym's right to self determine how can you say that this group over here cannot self-determined but the jews can it danger is the jewish right to help determine oh i would have some eyes when i was up there where they stand on the we're doing our job you know least you know this is not on this show and they will speak at least this cannot be reduced to

a competition between religious claims based on who you think god gave this land to you know it's pretty clear to any fair minded person that if that's what you reduce it to you're going to have internal conflict not. there are extremists who don't mind but i think most of us sensible people want to come to some sort of reasonable peace agreement between both peoples in which case the proper framework is not religion and history but actually international law and international law is extremely clear about the fact that the palestinian territories the west bank and gaza and east jerusalem are illegally occupied and israel has no title to them whatsoever that's the simple reality that has to be acknowledged now if you don't like it if you want to say think omar jews should be able to live anywhere you want to seems to be if you are leaving out of the fact that. i think that it's very important to not you know state the case in such an equivocal terms when really a lot of the things you said are simply not correct you know the last adjudication of the international on the thing on those friends and family not iraq which created iraq which created that my mom excuse me last finish please iraq syria and lebanon arab states and all it also created

a jewish state you see it's fair to have twenty three arab countries in our region and one jewish each and this has something to do with progress story this has nothing to do this program is an absolute disgrace i think as you have already in doing so for the united nations will never give up our claims to our homeland and there's a double standard i didn't understand but i knew i was on the one hundred one so i said we managed to send missionaries some of these are nice clear i don't know you don't want anything there is no such thing as illegally i thought about the one thousand which one is that no i mean if you're going to some united nations creation of israel you have to accept it was going to be good news if you don't know if there is or is illegal or not if it is the country that gives arabs the most freedoms i wish that egypt and syria would give a little bit of freedom to arabs like you are telling me you know these young people you know what i really. do not do rail this program we're talking about the palestinian papers that have been leaked we've been talking about to behavior of the israeli government and the palestinian authority so can we stay on that topic.

no mike can you going to get off the partially funded by the storm are you today and then we're going to rake cantelli i don't know i am very angry every human rights situation every human rights organization in the world documents very thoroughly the flagrant abuse of the palestinian rights under israeli occupation the idea that palestinians living under occupation have more rights than are arabs living in other arab countries it's completely laughable i mean look at the situation in gaza where you have one point five million oh i don't want to chris i wish you would be in touch with some of the people that i know in beirut who taught talk to me about the life of fear that they live over there on their cars and the uranium or i may just be right here we go to the brakes when we come in after the break we'll continue our conversation on these leaks documents i hope you stay with . me. if you. want.

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time to remind you we're talking about documents from the middle east peace process . but first let's see what russians think about the conflict. just the talks the release of palestinian documents might change the course of negotiations between israelis and palestinians over sixteen hundred documents detail more than a decade of negotiations between the sides the documents reveal polis teenie a negotiator is we're willing to accept israel's annexation of all. the public opinion agency a lot of russians to which side of the israeli palestinian conflict they have sympathy sixty four percent said to neither fourteen percent cited palestinians and the nine percent israel is many believe the leaks good rearrange future negotiations. ok and i did change gears

a little bit not to go to omar here we've talked about israel or tried to talk about israel's involvement in these negotiations in make mix much success in the first part of the program so let's take a look at the palestinian authority what do you think needs to happen here because of read the papers very carefully it's the israelis and the palestinian authority basically trying to undermine hamas a good a great deal of it it talks about that there and in some of the very nasty activities on the part of american intelligence british intelligence as well i mean what do the palestinians have to do now because when i pointed out you know maybe the palestinian authority will come out on top on this and i tend to think not and considering now i will invoke the greater middle east considering tunisia egypt and other places the palestinians deserve better like so many other people in the in the arab world don't we need now to pursue in an election a new election for a new leadership among palestinians that include gaza and get a leadership that can actually speak about the right because i mean even during

these papers with the right of return the palestinian negotiators just threw that away as well i mean we need to get a new slate a real government real negotiators that can really express the interest under international law and the palestinians. look at may very well be actually time for new elections tonight and i'd like good on my answer to go to ok it may very it may very well be time for new elections and i do think that some of the revelations are actually damaging to some extent to the credibility of the palestinian leadership i mean we all knew that there was security cooperation we did not know that it went to the extent of actually targeting some hamas members we all know that there would be territorial compromises but we did not expect that the time when the palestinian leadership would be publicly criticizing israeli settlement expansion in certain areas that would they would have privately conceded some of those areas so that is damaging to their credibility but i think it's unclear whether this would actually in itself lead to the collapse of the palestinian authority i mean many people have actually suggested that i don't think that's actually quite sufficient what it does

is emphasize the need for a game changer it restricts their political space for maneuvering so they can can no longer afford to keep bending to american pressure to offer more concessions and more negotiations in the face of israeli intransigence so i think what is needed at this point actually is pressure preferably american you know from from american policymakers on israel to be more flexible and to take that peace process more seriously have to actually be willing to allow for the creation of a viable palestinian state i think that's where the pressure ought to be focused it's very optimistic on you like it never happened i am as you know i want to go to you now you said you wanted to jump in and say yeah yeah i don't think that we're going to see what large scale protests are riots rise up in the west bank and part of the reason is because palestinians now that israel would be happy to go back and re occupy the west bank and that would pave the way for more settlements and a longer occupation and that will just maintain the status quo what i think we're going to maybe see happen here and you know the peers are to lay the groundwork for

this is that the theory is going to start turning towards the u.n. that the arab countries have just sent in draft u.n. resolution draft. seeking to condemn the settlements you know he has. no secret that they hope to see a palestinian state declared this year by september you know ireland has just prated the palestinian diplomatic mission there to an embassy following france and spain it's in the latin american countries you know recognize go ahead and recognize a state if they can use those who. and they can use it well then they might change the game but not as far as peace talks you know they might be turning to the u.n. issue if i go to you i mean is it possible you know hey let me let me can i ask a question please do you think it's possible in a way that these these leaks these leaked documents is that could turn into israel's greatest nightmare because at the most pliant palestinian leadership they

would do anything it wanted for virtually anything except become zionist i mean israel may regret it its negotiating stance of the last decade because by and transience they have actually destroyed whatever partner they have and some of the things we just heard was the program to or that you actually might get a palestinian government authority that could actually do much better than what we've seen over the last ten years. i don't think that that's really what the documents are showing i think that they're showing that there's a great divide in palestinian society and there's really a good cop and a bad cop i think you have. zero backs hamas and they're interested in leaking these documents you have. who have a you know staged approach to kind of getting rid of israel and therefore you really have a conflict between two ways to kind of get rid of israel and israel showed itself as being a tough negotiator that's why we do it in the middle east but i want to agree with my colleague omar that i really think that american involvement is not a good idea what i don't understand is why omar says now let's use the americans on

our side i say forget it let's push the west out let's have direct negotiations discussions between the tribe of the jewish people the tribe of the arab peoples we are middle eastern peoples we are really cousins we are related we don't need the west to get involved i think that they are not interested in regional issues and i'm going to tired of the borders has not all these countries and this whole you know new occasional market i can go to you know i mean one of the biggest problems . if i go to. about people who one piece on both sides versus extremists who are happy to continue this fight on both sides this is not about jews versus arabs and it's not actually you can say that you should do well if there was a world to both sides it's actually even if you don't have a balance of power that allows for both sides to negotiate on their own you have one party israel which has control over everything and you have the palestinians who are relatively powerless in the face of israel's military superiority on the ground so to say that they should be left for themselves to negotiate obviously will produce no more incentives really on the nation it's very convenient to frame

the issue that nobody would be it's very interesting if you frame it. that way shape means you don't want any valving of international law right you want you want just to have a brawl and really to push these people out of the way saying to me i only want and that's what you really want to do because you don't want anybody watching what you're doing right now not not at all. i think that i think the little statements are fallacious i think that you know israel has a tremendous success with its arab minority i lived with arabs when i was young i still live with arabs today i think that the arabs that want to stay in israel are going to be welcomed in our country but nobody's going to destroy our country from inside nobody's going to be on the record when i go to mars no matter what we do we have to go from here we're doing here or anybody else quite quite process quite quite frankly people like rabbi fleischer you know i hear him talk a lot about israel's enemies and i think people like him are actually the most dangerous people for israel because the people who are keeping israel from coming

into the us i will agree with the palestinians in which peace would last are the ones who are actually endangering the long term interest of israel exum to a peaceful agreement and the occupation allow the palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination that is what is needed so quite frankly the only thing that there is to say at this point about the peace process this is that unless there is a game changer there is no new you know the right wing coalition government in israel has proven that it is incapable of coming to a sensible peace agreement with the palestinians voluntarily so there has to be a game changer there has to be some shift in the equilibrium locally domestically regionally or internationally that forces israel to take these negotiations more seriously and to understand that there are consequences to continuing the occupation of the domination of the palestinian people my if i can go to you i mean we want here we are in line behind you and when television like you and i and it's right now you can have netanyahu and abbas sat down and shake hands and start talking i mean after all of these documents right now i mean what is the game changer because i mean i can't imagine that right now and i can't even imagine the

same negotiating team i think i mean should she get on an airplane and go back to washington d.c. he made a complete ass out of himself skews my language ok and so did the united states i mean where do we go here now that's why i can't saying that you know the palestinians are going to turn to the u.n. because that's the only possible option i say i think the peace process is bad i don't think that we're going to have. warlike some people have been saying. i don't see any other option certainly neither the israelis or the palestinians are ready to build a binational secular democratic state like i personally would like to see. so i think the only option now is for the international community to step in just like it did in one thousand nine hundred forty seven with the un vote that helped establish the state of israel i don't understand why the israelis keep saying that the only way we can find an agreement to make a palestinian state is through the peace process because that's not how israel was me there was no peace process here in one nine hundred forty seven that made israel

the arab states did not agree to the un vote there is no you know the palestinians weren't consulted there was no agreement so why not go ahead and establish a palestinian state now when it's so clear that this current israeli government is never going to make demands that this government is hell bent and now excuse my language how bent on continuing to build i don't see it any other way. you say what do you think about all this i mean your country is run. even if it's ok if you shoot a lot of things behind the scenes israel is a little embarrassed but it still does got what it wants right i mean it gets land and it just keeps saying we need to keep the process going process going that's the plan though isn't it. i think i think that you're right that it's embarrassing that we continue this process which really is a continuous failure of forty years i think that we should stop ask the people the

regional peoples what they really think is right i think the jewish people will say we have a claim to this land it's not biblical only it's a story that's archaeological it's legal it's international law and i think we should make a simple claim this is our land let's live with that with all of the palestinians could actually start our claim is that the lead singer i mean you know mary all those men are logical and i want to i want to one time point. i want to make one point the difference between me the difference between me and my colleagues on this program is that they believe in a new form of imperialism they think that the world should get together and for solutions on the region i say look if well you know i really would like to do you did i was actually here i said i mean i know one of the reason is a very good word for this program here many thanks to my guests today in washington miami and in tel aviv and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk. and.

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