put look at the top stories here in our team problem anti-government forces in libya are still in fighting terms both sides agree on one thing and urge foreign powers to keep out of the conflict. the u.s. vice president comes to moscow on a mission to lift the reset to new heights with missile defense cooperation global trade and libya on the agenda. of the london commuter a town that's increasingly a crossing point for extremism its residents on the edge as a draws both radical islamist and nationalist. and

a peaceful public workers damn old translates as a gathering of violent thugs in the eyes of u.s. news channel eager to spice up its agenda. all that's crosstalk focuses on the place which saudi arabia occupies in the storm of unrest and golfing the middle east and north africa. you can.

follow him welcome to crossfire gang peter all about the growing sand storm in the arab middle east as change sweeps the region to saudi arabia and new and outside influences u.s. president barack obama says he supports democracy and the aspirations of the people does this apply to the kingdom of saudi. king. to discuss the situation in saudi arabia i'm joined by ali alyami in washington he is the executive director of the center for democracy and human rights in saudi arabia in dubai we crossed robert jordan is a former u.s. ambassador to saudi arabia and now a baker botts and in london we go to bill body out one he is the editor of the al goods are already newspaper and another member of our crosstalk team on the hunger all right gentlemen this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want if i go to you mr ambassador in dubai how would you describe what's going on in saudi arabia right now in light of the uprisings and what some people are calling

the arab the arab awakening in the region. peter i think there's a lot of anxiety right now i just came back from a visit to both riyadh and the interim. there is concern of course particularly about the shia they have waged there's been a problem for friday i think it remains to be seen and i thank you that would be but there's a car non-issue amount of anxiety about us walsh about the lack of jobs to some degree about corruption and to some degree about just the basic competence of a government so there are. there are some there are some dry timber there that could be ignited i think overall the king is very well be loved in saudi arabia and that's that's on the plus side but there are many mixed signals coming out of saudi arabia right now i'm going to you in london are the cows coming home to be coming back to kind of haunts of the what we've seen in the region for the last forty years i mean this is been

a coddled regime by the west particularly the united states again we hear president obama supporting democracy do you think you supports democracy in saudi arabia i don't believe he does support democracy is not a b.s. so very very old like a holy cow to the american administration is and they would like to that all your family took when can you be a new. yeah i'm of a legion of human rights and bad because of freedoms there so that american all was actually grooming the saudi royals to last and they never listen to their greedy and says all the saudi people and the problem is not actually among the shia and the eastern problem is that the problem is among the young saudis there are fifty two percent of the saudi population under the age of twenty five so those people who. have been where you can in the west and they can see that and employment is more than twenty percent in one of the wealthiest country in the middle east so twenty percent unemployment this is including women because women are not allowed

to work and old jobs just very selective sic there's over of that society so i believe this is the lead. it is very tense and many people are really good i'm playing there and they want changes took place i mean political team does that government i mean the king of saudi arabia who actually is a reformist until now he did not introduce proper reforms he still believes that he can bribe his people by giving them. salaries increases or by promising that. for the. world for for the people who are for housing benefit or something like that but political reforms is still far away i mean if i go to you and washington should the people of saudi arabia have the same freedoms that america and its western allies claim should be for egyptians. libyans i mean is is saudi arabia just so different and so separate game so exceptional. no

i do agree with what ambassador go to them. most of what they say and this is not chad's issue this is a people's issue especially to you with sixty seventy percent of this early but relation below the age of twenty five years old so this is a new generation of people. and i said that jordan and i discussed this briefly when he was giving a talk in washington d.c. at the russian a washington institute. so i get it as an exception on what's happening and out of all it is going to accomplish. one of the i made a cons like which was about a surge you got a month like whether i like it or not. it is a and you get a shot of people who are rejecting the all value the use of freely given as a as a tool of operation discrimination. expropriation rejecting one

family or all. the surge in general this where would you people are a victim at this point and has been there are victims of struggle within the royal family itself to have some royals. and not have what we do and i want to change the status quo at all to have somebody like that is turn out and how son and can grab the law and his daughter's well in favor of some cause and i think. reform to shut people up i file it in this deal on families shows today i want to start listening to the people start their process of some kind of elections i will start the process of constitution on my not ok because that's the only way to save the country and to save all family itself ok mr ambassador i mean a lot of the these ideas being floated about in people being imprisoned in saudi arabia for speaking out. just for the very ideas that have been just mentioned here

but there's still an enormous amount of written rigidity with it's also been mentioned this program bribing the people with such a huge aid package like thirty six thirty seven billion dollars again the exceptionalism because i mean the young people of saudi arabia see exactly what's going on in the region and they're aspiring it's somewhat they do the same thing but we don't see the royal family really giving much ground there i mean there's a conflict in there on the road no matter how you look at it. i think there is a conflict in this one that they're going to have to pay attention to i would just say this about the financial package each year usually around december they come up with a financial package not unlike this they delayed this year because the king had been hospitalized after surgery and so while it looks like a bribe in a way this is a program that they've instituted over the years and i've seen the king's interest in solving some of the other problems of poverty and so i don't think i would be quite as cynical about it but at the same token by the same token i think it's very

important for us to recognize that we've had these discussions with the saudis for a number of years it's ironic in a way that the administration of george w. bush was perhaps the first to raise the freedom agenda i was in their face over issues related to human rights religious freedom and freedom for women we finally at about the time i left office in two thousand and three talking a go and then the crown prince announced that they were going to start having lead elections for half their municipal councils well that hasn't turned out as announced and they haven't gone forward with a larger program which i think is most unfortunate now they need to get back with that program they need to start empowering the people and they need to start the building blocks of democracy you don't just have elections overnight but what they need to do is have freedom of assembly greater freedom of the press freedom to speak out and freedom to dissent and not be thrown in jail for it if i go to you in london i mean i guess i need to be very cynical right here is that the royal family

doesn't have any need to change because it knows it's apologists in washington will back to the wall it doesn't matter if didn't it's about democracy it's about human rights it's about oil and what the saudi royal family wants it's going to get. well actually yes i agree with you but you cannot rely on the american support for ever knew about record egypt he was the closest ally of the united states and he signed peace treaties with israeli or maintain them and he was a peace broker listening to the american patients and you know he was a good boy despite a bad bad american could do nothing for him to keep him in power when the people revolted against his religion the same thing applies to saudi yes the american are very happy with their relation with their saudi the saudi arabia for example where there is shortage of oil exports from libya they increase their production to more than nine million barrel a day it is true also that saudi help american to remove saddam hussein from power

but the saudi people are the people who can decide the future of the united states foreign policy and very un and also that you know the existence of the strength of their royal family regime so i think that american should push very hard on the saudi royal family not now but long time ago to the form itself to actually form to put an end to the corruption put in state the rule of low i just underlined is there all of the low the equality the justice that that transparency very election election not only that i'm going to settle council but also that you know the parliament we need our parliament as a very bitter represent the people and we need a constitutional monarchy they're not actually the royal family contrary controlling every drop every investor and they see every. business there so we have to you know to consider the saudi people personally i was shocked when i am going to have seemed kinda the love so there it visiting the shanty pounds at around

riyadh and he actually could not walk because of the sewage industry it's also he was shocked to see and to that which is the biggest the second biggest city is a very good drowning and flood simply because there is no sewage system there and many people were killed. because of that so i think that american lifted too late for the saudi people for the saudi even ruling family to say to them look enough is enough you have to care about your people in washington that's a very good point here because in looking at all of these regimes that are failed are failing or will fail in the arab world that the united states is critically just focused in on dictators elites and forgotten about the people and you think that's the same process as we just heard from washington is that washing is never really seen the people of all due respect to the ambassador on the program its focus has always been the regime in keeping it in place and i live here in washington and have lived for a while in the states and i have. i know the administration has a lot to go to and i have said you know what we have one of the top positions in

that ministry and frankly speaking i don't think i'm not an apologist for the american government i think we do a lot of lousy things in the middle east including supporting dictators but to think that the american administrations at least all the police are called out of killing every day they push they push this idea government by saddam to go again is absolutely i wish administration did more to promote democracy and our board and the administration and this country and. what we need to raise into one mile and clinton as to do exactly what bush said publicly support the people already. here we're going to go to a short break here and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia stay with us. in. studio.

wealthy british scientists scientists and. market finance. find out what's really happening to the global economy with mike's concert for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cars report. this. to me. and the d.v.d. radio. in an intensive number for the bars he goes to springfield to see. the most dangerous. radiation that they've

existed in the nature. of the company in the vicinity of known difference even so the produce is so much genetic changes including the cancer leukemia. dr being damian says the families you don't have to have a college degree you know you have to bring education to understand. you spread radioactive materials all over somebody's backyard you got a problem. the cool kids can. see. the fun to. welcome back to cross talk on peter lavelle tree mind you were discussing the current situation in saudi arabia kuwait. city.

but first let's see what political outcomes russians expect for the arab world one . more infected while the people of saudi arabia kick the fool sweeping the arab world cyber activists in the country are calling for demonstrations on march eleventh when did a man teenager make into the russian public opinion research center asked citizens what could be the outcome of western astray sions in the middle east thirty eight percent believe in positive changes and think authorities will listen to the people twenty four percent see negative prospects saying authorities will only tighten the schools and another nineteen percent say nothing will change still the people are in the streets to demand a political reforms release of political prisoners more employment opportunities and greater freedoms. ok and i to go back to washington are you want to finish off a point you made before going to the break already here. yes. our problem in this

country is we're out of stock with all this type. of so i doubt it especially because of its position as a lot of good produce lot of petroleum but also this one part of this country has had to let it go it's not well the stuck with the state been a key issue here yet at this point so yeah as more and steer well in the ambassador would know this it has more unstable at this point and he and the country's history so we're not we are stable lately and we are not supporting democracy we and this country have to have a lot of myint and stop go on and decide what this country stands for and it has a lot of democratic values and that is the key. and showed that if you are on your part of the world all right maybe that maybe the americans will start living up to their own words in the region and they view that or some of them is among the least

the u.s. backup finally the people of egypt and i go to the ambassador here this friday at least according to a facebook account seventeen thousand saudis are going to have their day of rage on friday at the same time ten thousand saudi troops and police forces are moving into the east so it doesn't sound like the regime is interested in dialogue is it well they're interested in stability to start with and i think they are interested in a peaceful dialogue you have to be ready for whatever comes up they don't know what to expect none of us do we can't really predict it i will say this though king abdullah started the national center for dialogue several years ago he has built i think an institution out there is intent on finding dialogue between sunni and shia between male and female between young and old and i think we need to respect that effort hasn't gone far enough certainly not but it doesn't mean that they're not interested in dialogue merely because they have security and police force.

assembled for what is now now stands a large rally ok if i'm going to have. bad habits die hard because just as we've pointed out through this program here is that i mean the use of force is the first reliance that regimes like this like to use and as we speak right now it's raging in libya people don't give up so easily it appears and there's no reason in the world why the the royal family and so you arabia is this going to say oh yeah we should sit down and have a dialogue that's hasn't happened well why would it happen now i mean they're just going to tighten their grip because that's what they know best and their american friends have supported them all alone. that's the problem with the american administration is you know when they heard the word their logo i think everything is small with and fine it's already there but you know what's the outcome of this. and i needed forms and the grounds that nothing at all in that very yell at is on the ground is completely different here you have more than one hundred twenty thousand young saudis who were educated in the western united states in particular

they had the highest degree from from highly respectable universities they went back to their country they compare that to you know how the american adjourned democracy enjoy your human rights and enjoy transparency institutions and in their country it's called political crap country so this is the real problem there logan should tackle the demands of those people those people now they have the planet of media they have their facebook grab the internet they have you know the freedom of expression outside that official outlets there so now they are saying you know why tunisia and managed to change very deep reforms why there's a gyptian actually manage to change energy after fifty two years of ruling so we can't do it and if they don't want to change their family they wanted to be can call constitutional monarchy not actually you know autocratic monarchy as as as we have seen in have seen now so i think the problem is of the government there it is

cosmetically beloki it is not actually deeply rooted delegates not actually reach some sort of understanding some sort of actually said strachan to that to the people themselves who are very bad have a lot of grievances underground this is the problem that ambassador talking about their local ok yes what what what happened after below do we have elected parliament do we have actually reforms or do we have. to use the corruption do we have people participating in that in order to turn in their very future and so this is this is the biggest question and now i think those people are going to you know they were straight in. saying look enough is enough we want our rights this is our wealth this is our pen pretty we have to have a saying how this country should be run we should have a little governance like everybody else ok mr ambassador again with all due respect here i mean the americans would certainly look like they're playing the game catch up when it comes to democracy in the arab world is that because it's all about iraq and about israel's security everything else can go by the wayside oh let's throw in

oil too ok but you know oil iran israel that's what it's all about it and democracy has never really been high on the agenda and it has been it's been lip service. well don't let me overstate it here but i think it's really about national interest and america's national interest is not the same as other countries' national interest certainly you have to have a reliable supply of oil to run an economy you have to have certain military capabilities you have to have certain geopolitical capabilities and you have to recognize your allies are but having said that i go back again to what i think the bush administration should be proud of and frankly what i'm proud of and that is that we got in their face we talked about human rights i have made speeches and i had private discussions over the last eight or nine years saying what you teach in your schools and what you preach in your mosque is not an internal matter it's a matter of our national security and it's a matter what's right and wrong these are statements that i've made publicly and

there's a record of it so i think we've got to be fair on both sides here in that respect but clearly there is a national interest and clearly there's an issue about iran clearly there's an issue about the world and that's frankly wrapped into the concept of national interest which the president has sworn to uphold can only find out to you again as we sat down in this program here there's speculation that oil is going to go up to two hundred dollars a barrel i mean you know for all the reliance of the united states has had on. saudi arabia and opec and all that two hundred dollar a barrel that's going to break any kind of global recovery i mean it's an amazing vicious circle because of oil and because of a medieval regime in the middle east and oh it's. but i just i will i let me let me go back to what the ambassador said the intent of the national interest they tried to do is we are we don't can look and to the sort it would be people's national interest to automate interest period and mr goble eyes the economy and

spread of thought out of them a big stadium is a much so i doubt i would be as the bashing for both. we have to understand that our national interest is going to depend on what also the best interests of these people by continuing by continuing to support this. coverage of him in serbia rabia is not going to share our national interest anymore and that's what bush and president is our eyes said we should start. seeing that our national interest is going to depend up on the stability in search and search and the gulf region as a whole and that statement if you can only come when the people of that country are the authors of their own destiny times have changed now if anything happens in saudi arabia and tedham of the oil prices. it can be

a catastrophe of. the economic recovery it will mayor quite sad and right now look like a picnic and frankly speaking and i am not formally agins and violence but frankly speaking we should have acted much faster then we do know and look at and i said you have two days three days to go how do we done that and this is a brawl long as in libya which is a creating problem with the oil prices at work now what has happened we and this country have to go and the side of it be able they are out of people are they getting fourteenth century of operation care to shift your money. and this is in your. people that we have to deal with and we've got to we've got to king we need to formulate in your policy kagan the chair of page from what you just

said i'm going to go to washington here i don't know what do we do this week we just heard that obama should have told gadhafi got three days to get out of guard shows so we should we say that with the royal family of saudi arabia yes and i believe you know obama if he is going to say to the feeling you have two days to leave your office i think you should apply the same rules to the saudi hundred up like the same rules to other gulf states and we're and kings you know he cannot actually just be hypocrite and selective and his enemies or his democracy actually drive so i think the situation in saudi arabia is worse than the situation in tunisia for example or a medium at least in egypt you have a free press you have you know our or at least you know deliberately free press you have elected parliament with or we disagree with it or not you know if you have at least some sort of a civil society is there. and you know that that prosecution is over that religion

is to the minimum all of the unknown existence so i think you're going to look at this the way she has already be either said there is no rule of law in that country and they know that american administration always criticize him so that he because of the lack of respect for other villages and also for the lack of democracy element i'm going to jump in here not reverend out of time here but i'm sure we're going to come back to it a lot is happening in saudi arabia many thanks to my guest today in washington dubai and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk because. if you can't. stand.

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