culture is that so much of the material to be sitting on. the rowing sand some in the arab middle east as change states to region to saudi arabia immune to outside influences it was. ill.

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wealthy british science. market trying to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max cause there are no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune into cars a report on our t.v. . can. follow him welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle the growing sandstorm in the

arab middle east as change sweeps the region to saudi arabia immune to outside influences u.s. president barack obama says he supports democracy and the aspirations of the people does this apply to the kingdom of saudi plan can. you discuss the situation in saudi arabia i'm joined by ali alyami in washington is the executive director of the center for democracy and human rights in saudi arabia in dubai the cross to robert jordan is a former u.s. ambassador to saudi arabia and now a baker botts and in london we go to a bill by the out one. he is the editor of the al goods i v newspaper and another member of our cross talk team in the hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want if i go to you mr ambassador in dubai how would you describe what's going on in saudi arabia right now in light of the uprisings and what some people are calling the era of the arab awakening in the

region. peter i think there's a lot of anxiety right now and i just came back from a visit to both riyadh and the eastern province there is concern of course particularly about the shia they have rage that has been called for friday i think it remains to be seen how i thank you that will be but there's a tremendous amount of anxiety about the youth bulge about the lack of jobs to some degree about corruption and to some degree about just the basic competence of the government so there are. there are some there's a bright chamber there could be ignited i think overall the king is very well beloved in saudi arabia and that's that's not a plus but there are many mixed signals coming out of saudi arabia right now and then i'm going to you in london are the cows coming home to. coming back to kind of haunt the what we've seen in the region for the last forty years i mean this is been a coddled regime by the west particularly the united states i mean we hear president obama supporting democracy do you think he supports democracy in saudi arabia i

don't believe he does support democracy is there any b.s.o. there may be always like a holy cow to the american administrations and they would like to that royal family to continue the new wood that of a legion of human rights and that bad because of freedoms there so that american old was actually grooming the saudi royals to last and they never listen to their grievances all the saudi people and the problem is not actually among the shia in the eastern province but the problem is among the young saudis there are fifty two percent of the saudi population under the age of twenty five so those people. who have been will be created in the west and they can see that unemployment is more than twenty percent in one of the wilkie is the country under middle east so twenty percent there part where you know unemployment this is it excluding women because women are not allowed to work and old jobs just thirty selective sifters of that

society so i believe this is the way. it is very tense and many people are really good i'm playing there and they want to change it's a big place i mean political change is the government i mean the king of saudi arabia who actually is a reformist until now he did not introduce proper reforms he still believes that he can drive his people by giving them. salaries increases or by or promising their right of. war for the people was for housing benefit or something like that but political reforms is still far away and if i go to you know washington should the people of saudi arabia have the same freedoms that america and its western allies claim should be for egyptians or tunisians for libyans i mean is is saudi arabia just so different and so separate and so exceptional. no. you argue with with ambassador jordan. and with.

most of what they say and this is a natural issue this is a certainly people's issue especially to you with sixty seventy percent of the relation below the age of twenty five years old so this is a new generation of people are truly. jordan and i discussed this briefly when he was giving a talk in washington d.c. or on a russian plane in situ it. is not our perception of what's happening in the out of walls is going to accomplish whether or not the i made a cons like a truck of a certain government like it was are i like it or not. it is a new get out and of people who are rejecting that all value is the use of freely given as a as a tool of oppression discrimination. expropriation rejecting one family or all. the surge out in general this where would you people are

a victim at this point and has been there are victims of struggle within the royal family itself or have some royals. and now if we do not want to change the status quo or at all to have somebody like that is still out on his son and kind of done one has daughters who are in favor of some cosmetic. reform to shut people up i file it in this deal on families shows today i want to start listening to the people start their process of some kind of elections i will start the process of constitutional monarchy because that's the only way to save the country and to save the oil family itself ok mr ambassador i mean a lot of the these ideas being floated about in people being imprisoned in saudi arabia for speaking out. just for the very ideas that have been just mentioned here but there's still an enormous amount of written rigidity with it's also been mentioned this program bribing the people with such

a huge aid package what thirty six thirty seven billion dollars again the exceptionalism because i mean the young people of saudi arabia see exactly what's going on in the region and they're aspiring it's somewhat they do the same thing but we don't see the royal family really giving much ground there i mean there's a conflict in down the road no matter how you look at it. i think there is a conflict in this one that they're going to have to pay attention to i would just say this about the financial package each year usually around december they come up with a financial package not unlike this lady later this year because the king had been hospitalized after surgery and so while it looks like a bribe in a way this is a program that they've instituted over the years and i've seen the king's interest in solving some of the problems of poverty and so i don't think i would be quite as cynical about it but at the same token by the same token i think it's very important for us to recognize that we've had these discussions with the saudis for

a number of years it's ironic in a way that the administration of george w. bush was perhaps the first to raise the freedom agenda i was in their face over issues related to human rights and religious freedom and freedom for women we finally at about the time i left office in two thousand and three king of go and then the crown prince announced that they were going to start having elections for half their municipal councils well that hasn't turned out as announced and they haven't gone for with a larger program which i think is most unfortunate they need to get back with that program they need to start empowering the people and they need to start the building blocks of democracy you don't just have elections overnight but what they need to do is have freedom of assembly greater freedom of the press freedom to speak out and freedom to dissent and not be thrown in jail for it if i go to you in in london i mean i i guess i'm going to be very cynical right here is that the royal family doesn't have any need to change because it knows its apologists in washington will back them to the wall it doesn't matter if good what's about

democracy it's about human rights it's about oil and what the saudi royal family wants it's going to get. well actually yes i agree with you but you cannot rely on the american support for whatever new a virus of egypt he was the closest ally of the united states and he signed peace treaties with israeli or maintain them and he was a peace broker listening to the american dictations and there you know he was a good boy this played that the american could do nothing for him to keep him in power when the people revolted against his religion the same thing applies to the saudi yes that american are very happy with their relation with the saudi the saudi arabia for example where there is shortage of export from media they would increase their production to more than nine million better lead they it is true also of a saudi help american to remove saddam hussein from power but the saudi people are the people who can decide the future of the united states foreign policy in their

urine and also that you know the existence of the strength of their royal family regime so i think that america should push very hard on the saudi royal family not now but long time ago to reform itself to actually. put an end to the corruption put in state the rule of low i just underlined is that all of low they're equal at the the justice that that transparency that election election not only them on a civil council but also that you know the parliament we need a parliament there's a very bitter represent the people and we need a constitutional monarchy they're not actually the royal family controlling every drop every in bed and they see every. business so we have to consider saudi people personally i was shocked when i am going to have seen king abdullah of saudi arabia visiting the shanty towns around riyadh and he actually could not walk because of the sewage industry it's also he was shocked to see it

give that which is the biggest the second biggest city is a very big and drowning and flood simply because there is no sewage system there and many people were killed killed were. because of that so i think that american lifted too late for the saudi people for the saudi even ruling family to say to them look enough is enough you have to care about your people and we think of you in washington that's a very good point because in looking at all of these regimes that are failed are failing or will fail in the arab world the united states is pretty clean just focused in on dictators elites and forgotten about the people and you think that's the same process as we just heard from washington is that washing is never really seen the people's all due respect to the ambassador on the program its focus has always been the regime in keeping it in place and i live here in washington and have it for a while in the states and i have. i know the administration and. i go to don't have no people at the top positions and i've had ministration and frankly speaking i don't think i'm not an apologist for the american government i think we do

a lot so lousy things in the middle east including supporting dictators but i think that the american administrations at least. hold out a plea every day they push they push the issue and your government gordon is absolutely bush administration did more to promote democracy and our board and the administration in this country and publicly what we need to fundraise and obama and clinton as to do exactly what bush said publicly support the people all right and i'm joined in right here we're going to go to a short break here and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on saudi arabia stable turkey. still.

wealthy british style. market. why no one should really happening to the global economy with mike stronger no holds barred look at the global financial headlines. is

a report on r g. h i'm arriving here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture. and. welcome back to our all star computers about three mind you we're discussing the current situation in saudi arabia.

but first let's see what political outcomes russians expect for the arab world why don't more infected while the people of saudi arabia catch the fools sweeping the arab world cyber activists in that country are calling for demonstrations on march eleventh and twenty to change and make the russian public opinion research center all such as what could be the outcome of mass demonstrations in the middle east thirty eight percent positive changes anything. listen to the people twenty four percent see negative prospects saying authorities will only tighten the schools and another nineteen percent say nothing will change so people are in the streets demanding political reforms release of political prisoners more employment opportunities and greater pre-games better ok i'd like to go back to washington are you want to finish off a point you made before going to the break go right ahead. yes. i want

a problem in this country as we are out of stock we ought to start with the state. of so without a bad special day because of its position i was there not to get rid us out of petroleum but also this i thought of this time trying to decide policy it was not well to stick with this statement and key issue here yet at this point so the idea is more unstable than the ambassador would know this it is not unstable at this point and time and a country's history so we are not we are out of my paddling state military and we are not supporting democracy we and this country you have to have a lot of mind and stop go on and decide what this country stands for and it has a lot of democratic values and that is the key to a stable and. on your part of the world all right maybe that maybe the americans will start living up to their own words in the region and they be there some optimism i mean at least the us back up finally the people of egypt i know to the

ambassador here this friday at least according to a facebook account seventeen thousand saudis are going to have their day of rage on friday at the same time ten thousand saudi troops and police forces are moving into the east so it doesn't sound like the regime is interested in dialogue is it well there are students to build or to start with and i think you're interested in a peaceful dialogue you have to be ready for whatever comes up they don't know what to expect none of us do we can't really predict it i will say this though king abdullah started the national center for dialogue several years ago and he has built i think an institution now that is intent on finding dialogue between sunni and shia between male and female when you know and i think we need to respect that effort as they're gone far enough certainly not but it doesn't mean that they're not interested in dialogue merely because they have security and police force.

assemble for what has been announced as a large rally ok if i'm going to have. bad habits die hard because just as we've pointed out through this program here is that i mean the use of force is the first reliance that regimes like this like to use and as we speak right now it's raging in libya people don't give up so easily it appears and there's no reason in the world why the the royal family and so you arabia is this going to say oh yeah we should sit down and have a dialogue that's hasn't happened well why would it happen now i mean they're just going to tighten their grip because that's what they know best and their american friends have supported them all along. that is the problem with the american administration is you know when they heard the word they're little bit think everything is small with and finally saudi arabia but you know what's the outcome of this. and it informs in the ground that nothing at all during that very yellow piece on the ground is completely different here you have more than one hundred twenty thousand young saudi who where if you created in the western united states

in particular they have the highest degree from from highly respectable universities they went back to their country. the you know how the american adjourned democracy and going to human rights and enjoying transparency institutions and in their country it's completely corrupt country so this is the real problem is that their logo actually should tackle the demands of those people those people now they have they have that i'll turn it is media they have their facebook we have the internet they have the you know the freedom of expression outside of fishel outlets there so now they are saying you know why tunisia and managed to change very jean and to have reforms why there's a gyptian actually manage to change energy after thirty two years of ruling so we can't do it and if they don't want to change their family they wanted to beat and constitutional monarchy not actually you know autocratic monarchy as as as we have seen in our scene now so i think the problem is you know the government there it is

cosmetically their logo it is not actually deeply rooted b.l.o. it's not actually reach some sort of understanding some sort of actually sets factions to that to the people themselves who are very very have a lot of grievances and their ground this is the problem that i'm talking about their local ok yes what about what happened after the yellow do we have elected parliament do we have actually reforms or do we have. to use that corruption do we have people participating in that in order to turn in their very future and so this is this is the biggest question and now i think those people are going to. demonstrate in. saying look enough is enough we want our rights this is our wealth and this is our country we have to have a saying how this country should be run we should have a little governance like everybody else ok again mr ambassador again with all due respect here i mean the americans certainly look like they're playing the game catch up when it comes to democracy in the arab world is that because it's all about iraq and about israel's security and everything else can go by the wayside oh

let's throw in oil too ok but you know oil iran israel that's what it's all about it democracy has never really been high on the agenda if it has been it's been lip service. well don't let me overstate it here but i think it's really about national interest and america's national interest is not the same as other countries' national interest certainly you have to have a reliable supply of oil at the run economy you have to have certain military capabilities you have to have certain geopolitical capabilities and you have to recognize your allies are but having said that i go back again to what i think the bush administration should be proud of and frankly what i'm proud of and that is that we got in their face i would talk about human rights i have made speeches and i had private discussions over the last eight or nine years saying what you teach in your schools and what you preach in your mosque is not an internal matter it's a matter of our national security and it's a matter what's right or wrong these are statements that i've made publicly and

there's a record of that so i think we've got to be fair on both sides here in that respect but clearly there is a national interest and clearly there's an issue about iran clearly there's an issue about oil and that's frankly wrapped into the concept of national interest which the president has sworn to uphold ok ali if i go to you again as we sat down in this program here there's speculation that oil is going to go up to two hundred dollars a barrel i mean you know for all the reliance of the united states had on. saudi arabia and opec and all that two hundred dollar a barrel that's going to break any kind of global recovery i mean it's an amazing vicious circle because of oil and because of a medieval regime in the middle east and oh it's. i guess i will i let me let me go back to what the ambassador said then tens of national interest they tried to be as we but we don't cloak and to these so we need people's national interest automate interest period and at this globalized economy and spread

of thought autism and extremism which down a bit as the bashing for both. we have to understand that our national interest is going to depend on what also the best interests of the so you people by continuing by continuing to support this absolute on a coverage of him and surrogate abia is not going to say to our national interest anymore and that's what bush and company size said we should start. seeing that our national interest is going to depend on the state military and search and search and they got a fatigue in the hole and that stimulate the economy all only come monday people of that country are the authors of their own destiny and times have changed now if anything happens in charge and ten of the oil prices. it

can be a catastrophe to the global economic recovery it will make quite sad and i now look like a picnic and frankly speaking and i am not for them the agins and violence but frankly speaking we should have acted much faster then we do know and look at and you have two days three days to go had we done that this brawl along this thread where it has in libya which is a creating problem with the oil prices at work never has haven't we and this country have to go and the side of the people there our people are and they get think fourteenth century of oppression dictatorships. and backwardness this is a neuro. people that we have to deal with and we've got to we've got to change we need to formulate a new policy or actually take another chair

a page from what you just said i'm going to go to washington here of the what do we do this week we just heard that obama should have told gadhafi you got three days to get out of dark so we should we say that to the royal family of saudi arabia yes i believe you know obama if he is going to say to the guy that you have two ways to leave your office i think you should apply the same rules to the saudi hundred apply the same rules to other gulf states and around kings given he cannot actually just be hypocrite and selective and his enemies or his democratic actually drive so i think the situation in saudi arabia is worse than the situation in tunisia for example or in egypt at least in egypt you have a free press you have you know at least you know relatively free press you have elected parliament with or we disagree with it or not you know if you have at least some sort of a civil society is there. you know that was

a jewish use of other religion is that the minimum all of the in lonely existence so if you want to look at this the way she was ordained as a said there is no rule of law in that country and the medic and the administration always criticizing so anybody because of the lack of respect for other villages and also for the lack of cooperation and i'm going to jump in here mother i've run out of time here but i'm sure we're going to come back to it a lot is happening in saudi arabia many thanks to my guest today in washington dubai and in london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk was. ok. with.

him arriving here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.