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alone and welcome to cross talk on peter lavelle the drift to the right all across europe and the us more and more people are giving the political rights a new look and more times than not it is the issue of immigration they galvanizes voters is the politics of intolerance coming into vogue. can. start. to discuss the growing appeal of the right wing i'm joined by tommy robinson in london he is the leader of the english defense league and in strasbourg we cross edward mortimer he's a senior vice president and chief program officer at the salzburg global seminar and another member of our crosstalk team ill in the hunger all right gentlemen this is cross talk you both have difference of a points of view i'd like to go to edward first in strasbourg we had a poll that came out a few days ago that madame le pen is ahead in the polls for the presidential poll

in france next year she's beating the president others will even say if they vote were held now they would vote for her also if i go to a mail online british publication here and that headline is half of britons would vote for far right parties if they gave up violence and if i could continue a total of forty eight percent said they would definitely support or consider supporting a party with such an agenda if it shunned violence and fascist imagery what is going on all across europe why do you get such a great appeal to the right and so dramatic. well i think that europe is feeling a lack of a sense of direction at the moment we haven't got very strong national leaders and we certainly haven't got very strong leaders at the european level we're suffering of course the aftereffects of the major economic crisis as you know the the euro

has been under a lot of pressure particularly some countries close to defaults and having to make very heavy cuts in government spending so i think that people are fed up and they're looking around for other people to blame and they're probably looking for something new and different in which sounds more decisive. and of course you know one shouldn't prejudge too quickly what the results will be in real elections where governments are being chosen i think from that point of view the most significant so far is in the netherlands last year which has resulted in a government that is relying for support on one of these far right parties but has not yet brought it in in most other countries they are still more or less at the margins of politics ok tell me if i can go to you is your organisation is it more of a cd or d.v.d. attraction to your. group is there more of a protest or is it much more easily because we just even edwards

a lot of people are having a lot of do you have a lot of issues with the status quo that the european leaderships have not performed in the way people would have liked in we're a street protest movement i believe a lot of people would wish for us to be a political organization but we're not we're a single issue organization who want to raise awareness and put pressure on the politicians are already there to deal with these problems and realise what we're living with and realise the effect the islam and islam islam is having on this country and on our everyday lives how we go three percent the country into a seven percent on many issues and cautions so much alarm and distress in such a disturbance to the country when there's only three percent. and we think of our children's futures with thinking of our country's future we're thinking of our culture and we stand up for our way of life and i think that's what you see in across europe you see in across the world islam is causing war and waging war everywhere from one end of the plant to the other people are realizing it people are realizing now this facade that islam is a religion of peace is absolute rubbish it's not

a religion of peace it never has been never will be and people are making a stand now and speak out whereas in this country we've been down for racist it by the previous government for fifteen years we've been walking on eggshells scared to say any think through fear of being branded a racist we've even seen the systematic rape of our youth one muslim gangs and the police knew it was going on for twenty years and they didn't do anything and the reason why was for fear of being called a racist they allowed right for fear of being who raised his glass how big the problem was everyone was so scared and when we're breaking that's a bit we're program there's a lot more to believe and it's a break we need to break into a place and system a treaty funding system. overwhelmingly favors the islamic state and we're only sorry if edward islam in mosul is being scapegoated here because i'm a lazy you mention it is i'm a lazy you mentioned at the beginning of the program. it's certainly what it sounds

like to me i mean i have to admit that i am although i'm british i'm living outside britain at the moment but i've got a reasonably close touch with the country i'm visiting it very frequently the idea that ninety seven percent of the population of being dominated by three percent simply go it's not recognizable to me at all i really don't know what he's talking about tommy when i responded to it was can i read it here head where are you from and where you from in england they would. like to look you up in the southwest which will simulate that it's all. which town is that it x r c you know nothing about x. it's going up in within in there you know nothing about growing up in a town that is played with a million is not you are talking about things that you read and things you study you have no first hand experience without being rude or of course the hope they had and the heart of militant islam in this country so i can speak more faith in first

hand on the effect that islam is have in on us in our communities in our towns on our youth on our future so i'm talking about experience not of raids and not yourself so you can see it in a foreign country which you are trying to tell us how it is in england on telling you how it is in the town and the town we live in the tower love is our town and it is played with a desire to get anywhere near where it's quite fashionable today does say that multiculturalism is failed in europe we've heard the german chancellor said i just said it's fashionable we've heard cameron the british prime minister say the same thing i mean is it is it it's fashionable because it's not getting the results that people want or it's people are the politicians are afraid of the voters and we also we have a case of that because the that is looking for reelection angle merkel is under a lot of pressure in local and regional elections i mean what is the connection between the two you said this is more of a political move to say it's failed. well i think it is

a good deal of that i think merkel said that because of the popularity of this book by. bob you know about it which shows that germany is abolishing itself and will become a completely muslim country by the end of the century which has been surprisingly popular so i think that has had an effect on mainstream politicians but i did i think they often don't define very clearly what they mean by multiculturalism when they say that it's failed i mean something has failed because obviously there are parts of our cities and may well be one of them where you have something like muslim. or parallel societies and if that is the result of multiculturalism then obviously it's failed but i think there may be other ways that one could interpret multiculturalism and i would hope that it would mean bringing people of different culture and religion together and helping them to understand each other and to do

things together and build a better country and i know many muslims in britain who are trying to do that and who are not at all like the ones that tommy is talking about so i think he should not be a bit careful about generalizing and blackening a whole religion and people who follow it on the basis of some specific incidents tell me what do you say about that is that a lot of people say about individuals like yourself and your group is that you just like to make a big huge blanket around a group of people that are extremely nuanced there or maybe from different generations coming from different places and the only thing that they have in common is their faith go ahead go right ahead you talk about you talk about her in a blanket over something couple leave these politicians are doing when they say no resumes failed because it hasn't. failed is not found in britain is found in europe is failing everywhere not because reason has been put in a blanket. in the problem and so that it doesn't actually. say who the problem are

the problem is the islamic. religion the problem is islamic faith is not more occultism because as an insult to sikhism hindu ism judaism is are is an insult to the west indian community of this country is an insult to the irish community all the different communities that comes this country embraced it and integrated fully it is only and only the islamic community who failed to do that and that's not our fault we can't blame our social can't be ourselves the problem lies there in their community not in ours they need to reform their religion in a way that they wish to live side by side they need to accept british law as the supremes law of this country they need to denounce sure wild or start calling for it stop calling for the spread of it stop asking for the implementation of it stop openshaw our courts which are against the human rights of women stop spreading islam islam across our country and until they be formed their religion which isn't is for them to do we will continue in these issues and we're not racists for doing that we just pointing out the problems which are there and they're there for everyone in the world to see and they're spreading these problems not in not in so

we're not talking about what's happening it means a whole lot and we all know how to solve ok it is very interesting isn't it i mean if i go to edward i mean well as we speak right now we have muslim people in the arab world fighting for their rights fighting for freedom spreading for some people would say democracy will see where it goes i mean it's it's kind of hard to kind of bring the two together if you say to one group of people one faith in one part of the world is one thing but when you have hundreds of millions of other people in another part of the world the muslim world that are fighting for their freedoms right now and a lot of people say that people in europe are walking away from those same freedoms by night wanting to deny people that live there even citizens their rights. well i mean i think frankly it's ridiculous to. everybody you know there are probably a hundred i think a hundred million. or maybe something like a billion muslims in the world you know it's nice to say that they're all the same they're all militant jihadi so whatever and i mean this is ridiculous is it would

be to say the same thing about all the christians i mean i think. there are a number of unpleasant groups in the world some of them may be muslim and some of them have other ideologies but i think that most muslims and certainly the ones i know law abiding people who indeed want to exist with their fellow citizens are. i think that it doesn't serve any purpose to build up this sort of hysteria about ok gentlemen i'm going to jump in here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the political right stable carkeek. taking.

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sounds. like on the. video. now with the palm of your. machine. to. remind you we're speaking about the rights of the right wing in europe.

but first let's see what russians think about this issue a recent poll suggests the leader of france far right party marine le pen is heading next year's presidential race in a country that's all from parties known for and to sing it eccentric that's but one taking over the party in marine le pen and wallowed to focus on the role of islam in france home to six million muslims that's talking pro the debate on immigration issues the russian public opinion research center asked muscovites what the voters should do to prevent tensions and conflicts between ethnic groups six to seven percent say registration and entry of rules for all of five labor force should be strengthened thirty two percent claimed they should sever punishment and for hate speech twenty two percent believe authorities causing should avoid. trace in all my grounds in particular areas eighteen percent see benny extremist political and

religious groups as a solution so lucian's might be falling for different ages but will their return on the political right help resolve the immigration question. ok tell me if i can go to you in london a lot of people say in their view your critics there. the use of islam the use of. talking about islam and muslims is today in britain in your a very came to what was said about the jews in the one nine hundred thirty scapegoating a group of people how do you respond to that. it's absolute nonsense i wasn't around annoying things were not scapegoating anyone all we're doing is hard going and point out the problem and the problem is there for everyone to see the problem is an epidemic sweeping across this country and everyone knows it that's why people want to bury their head in the sand that pertains in the fate that the public feeling is not there everyone the english defense league has been one of the biggest phenomenons this week this country ever there's a reason for that because people in these towns and cities like luton not like x.

are probably aware where it was from because i probably don't have a clue about islamic towns and cities but sounds that it's not luton where there are problems in permanent in bradford in leeds and in halifax everyone's been feeling the same we've had no voice we've had no one protecting us now and stand not standing up for us no one opposing this fascist or ideology there's masquerading as a religion that's walking across our country unchallenged and promote ensure our law personnel in high trees promoting extremism promoting homophobia promote some mettlesome all these different things are symptoms are coming from this religion and i need tackling and it's not my sister trying to talk about it and i want to ask you so peter when when when when organizations called for writing what's far right about our organization that's how i tell the media how media and analysts look at europe is nation and others are the national front for the other i don't mean about national front but all right i'm allowing you to express your opinion

that's ok that's why we invited you on the program ok and we're not if i could go to you a lot of scholars and their female scholars of islam they happen to be muslims themselves in the us in the u.k. and in continental europe have told me personally that for too long liberals in the west did bury their heads saying well we don't we want to be tolerant we want to be tolerant so you just turn another turn your turn your head away from it it's their business and a lot of people in it and there's a lot there's a large muslim community here in moscow and there some people are saying well look you know we live here we have certain values it's the way we live our life and we expect you is guests and becoming citizens of this country the least pick up some of the basics and i think that's a fair thing to ask isn't it. absolutely i think we should stand up for the rights of all individuals and of course that includes individual when we are concerned to recognize the rights of groups should never lead us to neglect the

rights of individuals when large numbers of individuals form a group they want to practice their religion build a mosque whatever it is i mean those are also rights that people have which we should respect so i think that we shouldn't confuse the two things economy when you think about that i mean there's great here you about it. so i find it hard to respect when we've seen for documentaries recently in britain we've seen islamic majority schools we've seen what they're teaching in these islamic schools the and british the homophobic often hard to suspect that in any way we've seen the green line mosque undercover mosque documentary which showed them from now in hatred extremism in one of the beacon of moderation mosques in this country we've seen the east london mosque with islamic form of europe every time a mosque is exposed to an undercover documentary we see hatred in recent streams and so on personal fight very hard to respect any building of any more mosques and

what's been promoted didn't. and there's no governing body there's no moderation of any of these mosques at all at the moment and it is out of control this this mosque applications going in left right and center and until we solve the problem until we deal. with the. elements of its religion then i need to stop building these mosques you know it's very interesting i will do it i'm going to number of programs i'm an immigration on in islam in europe in this and i'd like to address this to edward here is it it's not really the building of mosques per se me in maybe coming in his friends would disagree but it's because europe itself is becoming less and less christian and a our identities are not determined usually through our religious faith it's one of our identities but because of the clue how our muslim people feel they are treated perception they're treated they became the retreat into their religion that's at least some interpretations out there i mean isn't that really different it's a secularization that we've experienced in europe. it may be partly that but

i think all these things are generalizations and the fact that there are many people in europe who are from muslim background. may not wish to be identified as muslims and there are others who say this is an important part of my identity and i think there are many who while they may not be particularly keen to draw attention to themselves when they hear somebody talking the way tommy does about their religion and making out as if you know a few things that go on in a few mosques which have been given a great prominence in the media and inside the nigerian mosque you know this about how he's claiming that he is claiming that you're being silenced this is an unheard voice and then you cite a series of documentaries that have been given prominent you have been been shown on the b.b.c. or wherever i think certainly some muslims do feel offended by that and

they feel that they are being targeted and scapegoated and that probably reinforces their islamic identity and may make them even think it's a mistake they should be prepared to denounce anybody who's advocating violence or intolerance but they may be more reluctant to do so if it means that they're going to be associated with people who talk the way tommy does and we think about that time immediately if people are attacked or scaffolding as they did they would naturally cherilyn word on their own the identity that you're forcing it on think already head remember remember the been here not even two years what's happened before that no one forced anything no one now i'm saying anything against islamic people to pitch for it and the problem was there you took my muslim feel offended we were offended on a daily paper that is rather hard to say i mean after all after. after the july bombings there was a great deal of anti muslim speech in the seventy's i don't i hope we have

got past that in. well ok good why hasn't britain got past it then. well i think it's essentially your story go ahead edward. it's i think it's a complicated set of questions but we're certainly not helped by media who go out looking for minorities to blame and encourage this kind of feeling i think that most the people who actually live in areas where there are muslims and who see them every day move it's only a small minority of them that would advocate terrorism or. extreme versions of traditions which revolve the oppression of women and all that i think it's it it's the trouble is that most people are learning about it from the media and from people like tommy and they get very worried what's happening to the

country and i think it's enormously exaggerated and it's not a healthy way to deal with it if you think about that i mean you're part of the problem not part of the solution. here are here that we are symptom we are a symptom of the problem if you get down to the root cause of the problem and deal with it there would be no english defense league if you talk about small numbers and a handful of people ten thousand people attended his part to his last annual rally in this country in london ten thousand people. are missing muslims are there in you yet you said i was at the if a population of muslims. come here thirty seven thousand is really quite a small proportion thousand really with the british national party how does an annual rally and i take it and i get thousand people i got two million votes so he's not he would have ten thousand people attend their rallies. thirty seven percent of british muslims when identified in a pouch that they wish to show low in this country that's not a small percentage if asked for a million people did you realise the cereal or means. do you know what sharia law.

or you i mean i have a sort of study of it. there's one hundred one hundred courts in this country there in the european court of human rights in three thousand and seven was it issued that shariah law is incompatible with western democracy and freedom groups their views on homosexuals they fuse on women and their views on infidels so this is a system that cannot appease that you realize you're going to do around the this time it's a correct characterization go ahead edward. no because he's been he's jumping from he talks about sharia law which is an abstraction and then he talks about values who somebody might hear your list every mostly tell you he wants to follow the sharia which is the path of following the divine law i mean christians would say the same but it doesn't necessarily mean that you want to cut people's hands off or anything like that. marriage law family law

you know where you through to people get married they make a contract and you know they need to know what the terms of the contract are and so they will say you know we're having this marriage law it really. makes it sound. last word twenty seconds go ahead tell me i have twenty seconds where you defend it and it was defending shari'a law but. when the shoe a little closer treated unfairly women have fought for decades in this country for equal rights we are muslim british muslim women and women of our country not how allowing them to be pushed brushed aside and treat unfair you have to jump in here gentlemen we've run out of time many thanks to my guest today in london and strasburg and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk. you can. stick.

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