i know no no. but that outrage and violence in afghanistan because of one florida pastor his decision to burn the koran so all the world is changing for the first amendment always stay the same. for government stop working for a minute. but unless the government agrees to budget cuts it's exactly what's going to happen so are americans worried or is the shutdown all just hype plus in the game of politics where timing is everything and then president obama picked the right time to announce his reelection. and he's

a russian citizen arrested in liberia for alleged international drug trafficking so why does constantine your show goes face why in the hands of the united states. it's monday april fourth four pm in washington d.c. and christine for is out there watching our team. our top story today fall out from the actions of one florida man terry jones he's that florida pastor from the dove world outreach center he organized a mock trial that ended in the burning of a qur'an at his church and this was a story largely ignored by u.s. media but it was news in afghanistan and it was news that sparked a major reaction there several people were killed including an incident in mazar e sharif and protesters overran a united nations compound killing twelve people there and we did hear

a response from a u.n. envoy to afghanistan who said it quote a freedom of speech does not mean freedom of offending culture or religion traditions especially when there are so many of us both civilians and frankly military in parts of the world and particularly in afghanistan so i think the main blame we have is about that you're responsible gesture that was made on the case but proof is that those who entered our building were actually furiously angry about the issue of the qur'an there was nothing political there so we want to bring into this discussion michael holton and he's a blogger for the political commentator and joins us from jericho. so michael you know it press we're talking about politics or principle you know president karzai had asked congress to condemn this action do you think they said well it borders christine i think. they were only the qur'an was no doubt the wrong thing to do you know its own and you want religious symbols is absolutely wrong the

same way do you want to efface it's all wrong or to burn a bible the issue i don't think is one where the united states should alter the first amendment just freedom of speech it might be more to get to the garment why they're such a violent reaction so one man's action or what do you mean get to the bottom of it what do you think this comes from i mean do you think it's specifically over this one man's action i mean we saw what happened over one action with the danish cartoonist or do you think there's something bigger here. i think it's the reaction over one man's action i think that that president karzai didn't do the situation any favors by stirring up the situation. you know i think that freedom of speech in america is is crucial so the way that we live and i think that if you start to change that to serve one situation then where does it end let's say the congress passes something that says burning

a qur'an is illegal and now some other actions for us violence to be then stop that action so i think that it's a slippery slope and you know the constitution survived for many hundreds of years and i don't know that changing it in this case is the right thing to do and you know general petraeus over these last few days actually sent an e-mail to the media thing who condemned the qur'an building crown burnings give me some favors not only american lives in danger which clearly we firm does not just americans that has written for us from our food before undermines the entire effort in afghanistan what about this issue of the bigger issue of what these action plan and have led to are well again burning a qur'an is a terrible act the same way that burning any religious symbol is a terrible act but again. you bet that one acts to not be

held responsible for violence erupting throughout an entire country it's just it's an even cause and effect and again if you do change the rules to take that into consideration and me running across some kind of other crime then what happens when you cop to catholics and three church and and lighting candles sparks a controversy or an attack do you then outlaw that so you know where does it end you know of as you would expect this if you dominated the sunday talk shows yesterday and i want to play a clip from someone who will different from me this is senator lindsey graham of free speech is a great idea but we're in a war during war to you had limits on what you could say that would inspire the enemy so burning a koran is a terrible thing but it doesn't justify killing someone burning a bible would be a terrible thing but it would justify murder but having said that any time we can

push back here in america gets actions like this that put our troops at risk war to do it so two points here i mean number one senator graham says maybe we should think about having rules the a little different i'm very wartime as they were for example in world war two and the other issue here is you know should there be any action taken against pastor terry jones obviously you know nobody's saying he should be executed nobody's even really saying he should be arrested but should there be any sort of reprimand here and the answer is not and senator graham is a very politically correct senator but at the end of the day i don't believe that burning the qur'an is a military in any greater danger than the orient and again it all gets back to the same issue which is if you. with some kind of look penalty and want to act but starts another act from creating another penalty in and so on and so on until until

rights are just taken away. all of it place you know not only will you have that saying that we have freedom of speech except yelling fire in a crowded movie theater is that creates an imminent danger i don't you work with it as it is creating an imminent danger how can i be in imminent danger when people lost their lives i think that's the bigger question why an act of a man in florida created violent out reach across the world that forced a mob into the u.n. building i think it's an interesting point and certainly a good time to bring out that decision that we saw just recently with the westboro baptist church as people who protest at the funerals of soldiers and marines that decision said it one does not lose the right to free speech simply by using that right in a reprehensible fashion otherwise the entire concept would be meaningless i think

that's what you're trying to say here michael hartmann blogger for the political commentator thank you very much thirteen years now to brawling over the budget in a city never devoid of a good fight this one dollar bout money your money and how it will be spent and if there's no agreement well there may be no money we're not just talking about government workers getting paychecks we're also talking about people eligible for medicare not being able to enroll about hundreds of thousands of passport applications not being processed social security tax is not those might not come so will it happen and if it does what will the implications be and to american taxpayers what they think about us are as your producer linda garfield took to the streets of the nation's capital to find out. there's been a lot of talk over the past couple weeks about a looming government shutdown and congress can't agree on a budget they'll simply stop operating but are people on the street really worried about this let's find out you just want to holly government's going to shut down

the rest of the country is going to run as it were you a little bit because like you know everything's going on you know who's going to run the country or what's going to happen at the end of this week on friday if democrats and republicans can't agree on a new budget from the government going to be set down what does what does that mean to you shut down for how long that's a question until they can agree on a budget. and take a vacation but be nice i think it can and should be avoided i think we've got bigger problems in this world that we ought to be focusing on and we want to keep everybody employed and working and we can't afford government to stop working you know for a minute do you think it's actually going to happen now how can we be broke how does that happen is that what worries you the most our debt yeah yeah it's a huge national security risk i mean it's killing me you know i mean in shutting down services parks people don't have work to me totally unacceptable

but these politicians. their lives don't change they still get benefits they still get health care they still get taken care of soon as you hear that they might start the whole government just because both sides can reach an agreement of course it's sort of war as you know right. does it anger you even that the side can't compromise on something like the budget really anger but maybe just a bit amazed that. in such a democratic country sides can really find a middle ground so i would say it's. not such a good example of especially if you're if the country is fighting for democracy in other countries then this definitely doesn't set a very good example of democracy everyone should be able to compromise and there's got to be a middle ground but that would at least prevent the government from shutting down here in the u.s. and our congress if the government can't agree on the budgets we're going to shut

down on friday what do you think about that. in england we don't do things that where they do stay open and still they come to some sort of compromise the what really they will you don't think they well i'll bet you my bottom dollar to use an americanism that they were. seeing it are just a lot of hype it's just should a government shutdown absolutely there's no question. why do you think it's a shutdown. people need to come together and really we're taking place and lose their own self interest too many people in jobs they don't make good decisions. complacent. it's unacceptable that the federal government would even need to come into this. and put all these people at work they don't really care. it's about that . well certainly. of varying opinions here that when they found out here on the streets of washington to break this all down i've got caroline hellman in our los

angeles studio she's a professor of politics that occidental college also joining me here in washington dan for actually the president of grassroots political consulting firm just first question and then i'll start with you will the shutdown happen i think it's quite possible at this point in time with the divergence and separation between the two sides doesn't seem to be much chance for a compromise at this point caroline what do you think. well i think it's about a fifty fifty chance i would agree with chris van hollen who is the ranking democrat on the house budget committee who put the odds at that really for two reasons one we've got eighty seven new freshmen republicans who identify with the tea party who want bigger cuts then democrats are willing to make and the second reason is that they've included defunding of planned parenthood as well as health care as part of the republican proposal and that will lead to an end pass the question is whether or not they will take the political risk and actually shut down the government rather than doing another continuing resolution i think it's important caroline that you brought up some of these points you know it seems to me

as much as both republicans and democrats like to lay claim to certain social issues the main thing they actually have power over is the budget so i'm curious i mean let's talk about some of your facts that the way in which these battles play out i mean who wins and who loses dan if you know if it's not down well i think the importance of this from the onset is that the democratic party had abdicated their responsibility back in two thousand and ten for one of the first times ever now to passing a budget and that's why we're at this in the first place when we're speaking about sixty one billion dollars over one point five trillion. compares to a household tell your child to go without fruit loops for two weeks i mean it's not that much of a of a cut we're caroline what do you think that this is the democrats abdicating their responsibility is that the whole story. well i would agree i'm a past president bush's tax cuts an extension of it for two years which meant that we were going to have to make the best of cuts in order to reduce the deficit if

that was a goal and everyone said it was the goal and in addition to that the most recent pew poll finds that americans would blame both republicans and the white house for this so it's politically very risky but i would agree with dan the democrats the democrats really put us in this last by not standing up and passing a budget last year but what about i mean you know a lot of republicans are having a tough time right now because they you know just by judging history when you go back to the government shutdown in the ninety's under newt gingrich the republicans in an x. didn't exactly come out ahead in that situation it wasn't exactly the political victory that they thought it would so i think a lot of them are trying to make this not happen but a lot of members of the tea party here tea party which by the way helped get a lot of people reacted are saying we won't stand for any less than what we want to talk about this sort of tough thing that some of the republicans are facing right now i think on both sides nobody wants a shutdown at this point in time it's not good politics it's not good policy but on

top of that we're talking are very very minor cuts at this point in time and if they can't do something this minuscule as far as cuts in a twenty year levin budget it doesn't bode well for when we're going to be talking about the debt ceiling twenty two a budget deal with entitlement reform extended so that's a good point and you know there's there's the budget that we're talking about here there's also this discussion about you know the debate on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling so here's something interesting we just heard today that president obama decided you know yesterday today would be the day to announce that he will of course be seeking reelection in two thousand and twelve so he's made this announcement this you tube video announcement here i want to think about the timing here i mean a lot of people questioning exactly why now was the time. well i think it's because the jobs report just came out and where it eight point eight percent unemployment which is the best it's been in two years and also a lot of other candidates have already begun campaigning so i think it's wise on

the president's part i find it the timing suspect though that republicans are releasing their proposal for the twenty twelve budget tomorrow so they're throwing their hat in the ring which that budget goes directly after president obama's policies and priorities primarily the health care bill i mean i think it's a good point caroline that you said. unemployment numbers just went down but why did president obama not use that day i mean he knew that the numbers would be coming out why i'm not there because today in addition to this debate over the budget we've also got the announcement that you know nine eleven conspirators including clicheed mohamed will now be tried in a military tribunal at guantanamo bay and not in federal court in new york city this decision praised by some but criticized by others who say wait a second you said in your campaign the first time around that you were going to close guantanamo bay now there's going to be a trial here obviously that means it's going to be open a lot longer carolyn what do you think about this i mean quick the timing perhaps have been better since no republican hasn't even officially announced yet really.

right that's a good point but i hate to say it for the administration i think this budget battle will be minor compared to the debt ceiling battle and the twenty twelve budget and the earlier he can do it and kind of avoid doing it in the thick of those debates and battles the likes of which i don't think we've seen in recent political history i think he was probably looking at it in so long going to cut my losses here especially with with a positive economic recovery numbers and then this is part of your job description i mean you talk to candidates mostly probably were republicans but your job is to say kind of map this out when the right time is and what the best strategy is i think also mainly i represent a major association of small business owners across the country reach out and touch people all the time but i think politically at this point in time a big comparison to ninety four you can't compare the two whatsoever this is the first time i've seen average joe being on the street it's actually been to things

like the debt ceiling the budget to be. and i think politically who wins on this honestly whoever takes the board step in actually puts in some significant cuts i think the public is fully in tune with this and that's exactly that type of leadership is going to be who they get behind but the question always comes back to where do we cut and certainly you can say all right the military has the largest budget in the world by a long shot why don't we look at cutting joy there why don't we look at raising taxes just a tiny bit for some of the wealthiest people of course those on the other side say entitlement programs you know medicare medicaid social security let's look at that costing a lot of money how do we come to an understanding when this is not just financial but also so political while some of these we need to take a broad look from the state to federal level of what or essential services and what can be cut when you talk to the big issues the entitlements the big four that many mention this is fair game but also this is not as complicated i grew up in a four hundred one k. generation so there were or things that can be done for those the. we're

grandfathered into the system but for my generation and many others that are willing to take a look at deep cuts in fact you know nobody at my age expects to get social security or medicare anyway so your program different things like that can be utilized but i think tackling those is less complicated defense i'm a big proponent of the military but there are some things that we definitely need to do to cut back especially now afghanistan trenching ourself and yet the third war is not the best idea for the budget i said of the question caroline i know that you tend to identify yourself a little bit more on the left but what do you think i'm going to ask you the same question what do you think democrats should cut and should kind of change their mind on at this point regarding the budget. i actually don't think i should be cutting at all we're in an economic downturn and moody's actually projected that the original sixty billion dollars that republicans wanted to cut would cost us

seven hundred thousand jobs what we should have done is tax the wealthy at the same rate that of taxes that i'm paying and that would have taken care of the problem i don't know point during an economic downturn should we be making cuts small or large it just doesn't make any financial sense but one of all his argument caroline that you know this is making this country become more reliant on china getting us more and more in debt at a time when you know we're spending so much money i mean you think that absolutely we should just keep spending and in the end it will make up for you know all the places in the economy. yes i think we should have probably tripled the economic stimulus in order to make it actually work because we needed about triple the amount to plug the gap we don't think the american the united states does not operate like a family business or even like a family income we are able to coin our own money and we have been doing that and we have not seen outrageous inflation as a result we can actually quite money to get out of economic downturn such as this

and anyone who's using classic economics and applying them as though we can't run deficits is simply misleading the american public we can then really. we're coining money and expanding our good over and over and over and that's why last year was the last year we were going to raise the debt ceiling and now we're talking about a ten year or so i couldn't disagree more and i think looking back yes maybe there were some more discussion negotiation on taxes and one big one that everybody miss was this small businesses the self employed i mean taking a foot off the neck of them and allowing them to go ahead and create jobs so the government's not going to create jobs and continuing to spend on wasteful projects like the stimulus programs not going to take us anywhere it's cutting regulations trimming taxes and enabling them to hire purchase equipment to do what they need to do when they're out there and i think that's a bedrock of economic i think someone does agree that the stimulus was grateful but unfortunately we're out of time i caroline helman professor of politics at

occidental college and then for president of grassroots political consulting. on now to another story he was arrested in liberia and his fate will be decided by a judge and jury in america we're talking about russian pilot constantine jarosz. facing trial in new york this afternoon for alleged international drug trafficking they are saying those lawyers they the case is outside u.s. jurisdiction due to several violations committed by american officials among them kidnapping torture and rendition of new york city with the latest pay them arena since the argentine goes arrest last june moscow has repeatedly called for his release protesting any trial in the us break this down why is this so it's very clear civil russian officials say when they are citizen was arrested in liberia and subsequent to subsequently transferred to u.s. authorities they were not notified either instances and according to the geneva

conventions and other international laws both countries liberia and the u.s. were obligated to notify russian officials now moscow says and has said that is orchestrated secrecy stands as a sign of open lawlessness on the part of the united states and for more details on this story we turn to our tease. a legit tons of cocaine a pilot snatched up and brought to a foreign prison and a wrong fax number this is a case of constant senior shango a russian pilot in his forty's scooped up by u.s. officials in liberia last year brought to a manhattan jail and along with four other suspects charged with international drug trafficking. is now a long time he did not even know where he was when he was brought to the u.s. he was put in solitary confinement and he didn't even know he was in the united states constantine's wife victoria just to write to new york she says her husband

was kidnapped by american agents while america says your show was smuggling drugs to south america africa and europe mostly from the disloyal or liberia the pilot has complained he was beaten and tortured following his arrest. detroit fights with him provoking him constantly close to try to stay away from that he asked them why are you treating me like this i didn't do anything to you and i have not been found guilty retore believes the case against her husband was fabricated by the u.s. but i have not i think this is involved in this is unclear he has never been to the u.s. in his entire life he never had a u.s. visa and wasn't third country upon his arrest him. when constantine your show was arrested russian officials were not julie notified and moscow cited a breach of international more we have. apologized to russia the state department's

excuse we pressed the wrong button on the facts and. to be brutally honest notifying romania instead of russia to observers this seemed a joke and this series of questionable details in this case the idea that there's a bank of buttons they push it i guess if they push the next one they would have gone to rule rwanda which is next on the alphabetical list so that sounds like a. strange story i don't think anyone would buy that here sean combs case is often compared to that of victor boot similarly snatched up by the u.s. in thailand and currently on trial in america for arms trafficking some see a tendency here they can use interpol they can use. picking up the phone to russia and trying to talk about this just going out and kidnapping people i think this is part of the carry over from the bush cheney administration the defense team has long labeled the case a provocation and unsuccessfully called for its dismissal and prosecution meanwhile

has been fighting to limit the scope of issues that can be addressed during the hearings they want to exclude questions regarding the legality of trying your show niccol in a u.s. court a legit while lesions in the investigations leading up to his arrest and official conduct during and after the pilot's arrest essentially all the main arguments of the defense after almost ten months constantine your show trial date is finally here a jury is deciding his destiny if found guilty he will spend from ten years to a life sentence behind bars and. new york so i want to bring marina back into the discussion she is not far from where this trial is taking place this afternoon were you know we saw on a stasi imagine in her story this is not the first time a russian citizen has been targeted by u.s. officials talk about this compare it to the case with viktor but. that's right as

you pointed out in her story very good story in the case of russian businessman victor boot he was arrested in thailand in two thousand and eight and the u.s. was fighting fiercely fighting for his extradition russia was very much opposed to this saying that their citizen was arrested in a foreign land if there were any criminal violations any acts of criminality that were were administered by him it could be taken care of in russia and so after two years of back and forth lots of lots of charges and court hearings it turned out that victor boot was secretly transferred to u.s. authorities in what many call a clandestine operation and russian officials were kept in the dark for much of that transfer until it was too late until victory was in the hands of u.s. authorities and victor now remains in solitary confinement in the new york federal court and he is awaiting trial as well and it's there's some parallels in this

situation because russia says again this was a bit of a violation they were not notified they didn't know what was happening with a citizen of their country and other critics say that the u.s. is just continues to play by its own rules of conduct it wants to point out humanitarian rights violations all over the world but when it comes to the way that it behaves it calls the shots we're in i wondering if you've noticed i mean how much media attention is this case garnering there in new york. oh you know very little media attention very little and very little is known about it it's very difficult to find out more information because if this was done in a very secretive manner the prosecution has enough to disclose all the information they have but in terms of mainstream media no coverage whatsoever any idea what we expect to come of this i mean it was nice that honestly if you actually got to talk to. so you get sort of out in five perspective you know what are people saying

what's going to happen here or what's what's being reported is that your show has as we know pled not guilty that's why this is going to trial and this is expected to be a long drawn out trial because the jury needs to be picked in formulated agreed upon his wife and his daughter from what's been reported or here in new york they are allowed to attend the trials but they are not allowed from what's being reported to meet with him privately so what's to come we don't know we're standing by to wait and see as this is day one of this operation that continues but we do know that this trial is beginning in the face of the protest that has come from moscow and so the u.s. is clearly going along the path that it wants to despite allegations that it's a violation of international law well we appreciate you keeping your eye on everything there for us our to correspondent marina port and i are in our new york studio.