we can't afford government stop working you for a minute. but unless the government agrees to budget concept exactly what's going to happen so are americans worried or is this shutdown all just hype was in the game of politics works i mean is everything president obama the right time to announce his reelection i. think outrage and violence in afghanistan because of one florida pastor's decision to burn the qur'an so long the world's changing should the first amendment always stay the same. and

you the russian citizen are arrested in liberia for alleged international drug trafficking so why does constantine your actions was a lie in the hands of the q well. it's monday april fourth five pm in washington d.c. i'm christine friends out there watching our team. brawling over the budget in a city never devoid of a good fight this one the all about money your money and how it will be spent and if there's no agreement well there may be no money we're not just talking about government workers not getting paychecks we're talking about people eligible for medicare not being able to enroll about hundreds of thousands of passport applications not being processed social security checks won't come so will it happen and if it does what will the implications be and do american taxpayers think

well and what to american taxpayers think about all of us over garfield took to the streets of the nation's capital to find out. there's been a lot of talk over the past couple weeks about a looming government shutdown and congress can't agree on a budget bill simply stop operating people on the street really worried about this let's find out you just wonder how the government's going to shut down the rest of the country's going to run is that where you are a little bit because like you know everything's going on you don't who's going to run the country or what's going to happen at the end of this week on friday if democrats and republicans can't agree on a new budget in the government's going to be shut down what is what does that mean to you shut down for how long that's a question until they can agree on a budget. take a vacation that me nice i think you can and should be avoided i think we've got bigger problems in this world that we will be focusing on and we will keep everybody employed and working and we can afford government to start working for a minute do you think it's actually going to happen now some as you hear that they

made start the whole government just across both sides can reach an agreement of course and sort of for as you know right. there that anger you even let the sides can't compromise on something like the budget. maybe just a bit amazed. in such a democratic country sides can really find a middle ground so i would say it's. not such a good example of especially if you're the countries fighting for democracy in other countries then this definitely doesn't send a very good example for democracy everyone should be able to compromise and there's got to be a middle ground that that would at least prevent the government from shutting down here in the u.s. in our congress if the government can't agree on a budgets they are going to shut down on friday what do you think. in england will do things that where they do stay open and until they can do some sort of

compromise the won't really shut down on friday will you don't think they well i'll bet you know my bottom dollar to use an americanism. so you think it's all just a lot of hype it's just hot air i think it's killing me you know i mean charging and service is showing on parks people don't have work to me totally unacceptable. but these politicians. their lives don't change they still get benefits they still get health care they still get taken care of it's unacceptable that the federal government would even need to come into this. and put all these people at work they don't really care. about that. well to break those all down earlier i spoke to caroline help manage down for archie caroline is a professor of politics at occidental college and dan is the president of grassroots political consulting here's part of that conversation i think it's quite

possible at this point in time. divergence and separation between the two sides person seem to be much chance for a compromise at this point caroline what do you think. well i think it's about a fifty fifty chance i would agree with chris van hollen who is the ranking democrat on the house budget committee who put the odds at that really for two reasons one we've got eighty seven new freshmen republicans who identify with the tea party who want bigger cuts than democrats are willing to make and the second reason is that they've included defunding of planned parenthood as well as health care as part of the republican proposal and that will lead to an end pass the question is whether or not they will take the political risk and actually shut down the government rather than doing another continuing resolution well i think the importance of this from the onset is a democratic party had abdicated their responsibility back in two thousand and ten for one of the first times ever passing a budget and that's why we're at this in the first voice when we're speaking about sixty one billion dollars over one point five trillion. compares to

a house hold telling a child to go with their fruit loops for two weeks i mean it's not that much of a of a cut we're caroline what do you think that this is the democrats abdicating their responsibility is that the whole story. well i would agree i made past president bush's tax cuts an extension of it for two years which meant that we were going to have to make a mess to cuts in order to reduce the deficit if that was a goal and everyone said it was a goal and in addition to that the most recent pew poll finds that americans would blame both republicans and the white house for this so it's politically very risky but i would agree with dan the democrats the democrats really put us in this mess by not standing up and passing a budget last year i think both sides nobody wants a shutdown at this point it's not good politics it's not good policy but on top of it we're talking are very very minor cuts at this point and if they can't do something this minuscule as forced cuts in a twenty year levin budget it doesn't bode well for what we're going to be talking

about the debt ceiling twenty two a budget dealing with entitlement reform excess so that's a good point and you know there's a there's the budget that we're talking about here there's also this discussion about you know the debate on whether or not to raise the debt ceiling so here's something interesting we just heard today that president obama decided you know yesterday today would be the day to announce that he will of course be seeking reelection in two thousand and twelve so he's made this announcement this you tube video announcement here i want to think about the timing here i mean a lot of people questioning exactly why now was the time. well i think it's because the jobs report just came out and we're eight point eight percent unemployment which is the best it's been in two years and also a lot of other candidates have already begun campaigning so i think it's wise on the president's part i find of the timing suspect though that republicans are releasing their proposal for the two thousand and twelve budget tomorrow so they're

throwing their hat in the ring which that budget goes directly after president obama's policies and priorities primarily the health care bill i hate to say it for the administration i think this budget battle will be minor compared to the debt ceiling battle and the twenty twelve budget and the earlier he can do it and i kind of avoid doing it in the thick of those debates and battles the likes of which i don't think we've seen in recent political history i think he was probably looking at it and going to cut my losses here especially with the positive i cannot recover numbers and then this is part of your job description i mean you talk to candidates mostly probably were cut republicans but your job is to say kind of map this out when the right time is and what the best strategy is i think also mainly i represent major association of small business owners across the country riccio touch people over time but i think politically at this point in time a big comparison to ninety four you can't compare the two whatsoever this is the first time i've seen average joe being on the street it's actually tuned in to

things like the debt ceiling the budget to be. and i think politically who wins on this honestly whoever takes the bold step and actually puts in some significant cuts i think the public is fully in tune with this and that's exactly leadership is going to be who they get behind we need to take a broad look from the state to federal level of what or essential services and what can be cut and when you talk to the big issues the and the big four that many mention this is fair game but also this is not as complicated i grew up in a four hundred one k. generation so there were or things that can be done for those that were grandfathered into the system but for my. generation many others they're willing to take a look at deep cuts in fact you know nobody at my age expects to get social security or medicare anyway so your program different things like that could be utilized but i think tackling those is the less complicated defense of a big proponent of the military but there are some things that we definitely need

to do to cut back especially now afghanistan and entrenching ourself and yet the third war. idea for the budget i actually don't think should be cutting at all we're in an economic downturn and moody's actually projected that the original sixty billion dollars that republicans wanted to cut would cost us seven hundred thousand jobs what we should have done is tax the wealthy at the same rate that of taxes that i'm paying and that would have taken care of the problem at no point during an economic downturn should we be making cuts small or large it just doesn't make any financial sense i think we should have probably triple the economic stimulus in order to make it actually work because we needed triple the amount to plug the gap we don't. the united states does not operate like a family business or even like a family income we are able to coin our own money and we have been doing that and we have not seen outrageous inflation as a result we can actually coined money to get out of that konami downturn such as this and anyone who's using classical economics and applying them as though we

can't run deficits is simply misleading the american public we can then really think about. we're coining money in expanding our good over and over and over and that's why last year was the last year we were going to raise the debt ceiling and now we're talking about a ten year rate so i couldn't disagree more and i think looking back yes maybe there were some more discussion to go she taxes and one big one that everybody miss was the small businesses the soft employed i mean taking a foot off the neck of them and allowing them to go ahead and create jobs so the government's not going to create continuing to spend on wasteful projects like the stimulus programs that are going to take us anywhere it's cutting regulations trimming taxes and enabling them to hire purchase equipment to do what they need to do when they're there out. that was caroline hellman professor of politics at occidental college and dan ferrazzi of presidents of grassroots political consulting. we want to move on now to fall out from the actions of one florida man

terry jones in that florida pastor from the dove world outreach center who are going to a mock trial that ended in the burning of the qur'an at his church and this was a story largely ignored by us media but it was news in afghanistan and it was news that sparked a major reaction there several people were killed including an incident in mazar e sharif and protesters overran a united nations compound and killed twelve we did hear a response from a u.n. envoy to afghanistan it said quote freedom of speech does not mean a freedom of offending culture or religion traditions especially when there are so many of us both civilians and frankly military part of the world and particularly in afghanistan so i think the main blame we have is about the irresponsible gesture that was made on that case the proof is that those who entered the building were actually furiously angry about the issue about the qur'an there was nothing

political there so let's talk about this what should the next steps be to weigh in on this i'm joined by rick sanchez journalist author and former c.n.n. host he's in our miami studio. hey there read this is so we want to have today is this should what happened you know twelve people killed at the u.n. one day another eight in khandahar the next hundreds injured should this change anything should terry jones be reprimanded. well i don't think there's any question that most right minded people would think that he has to be reprimanded the then let's get something on the table which is really important this point we should not be in any way condoning the actions of the people who have killed and committed violence they should be punished to the full extent of the law twenty two people or so are dead the numbers i know we're going to be changing and the people who have brought that violence upon those folks should be or should be first and foremost

they themselves condemned for what they did but as a secondary part of this there's no question that terry jones according to what he told the new york times today intended to cause this kind of harm knew that it could happen and went ahead and did it anyway very similar to what it says in the united states written by one of the best jurists that we've ever had all over wendell holmes in one thousand nine hundred says yes you have free speech but you can't yell fire in a crowded in a crowded theater if you know that that's going to cause harm this is here in town where do you think this is tantamount to yelling fire in a crowded theater. of course it's tantamount and the reason it's tantamount is because he was forewarned as i wrote in my column that appeared in the huffington post. general petraeus himself the commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan all but told him don't do this if you do this people will be

killed including some of the peacekeepers and some of the troops that the united states now has in afghanistan so it would be impossible to look at this and say that the man didn't know that his actions could cause harm i think that argument if he plans to use it has already been taken away well speaking of the man iraq i you know you actually interviewed pastor terry jones for a segment on c.n.n. i want to play just a clip of that and then have you talk about your take on him and generally to you it's not sacred. it's sacred to them that's like saying i'm going to burn down your house because i don't like your house it's not my place to burn down toward hollering down a house and what we're also doing by the burning of the koran on nine eleven we're saying stop we're saying stop to islam stop to islamic law stop your caliphate all right so is this a crazy man or is terry jones simply a man of strong conviction. well he's not crazy because crazy would imply that he

doesn't have a reason and i think it's quite clear from everything he's said and from my conversation with him that he's literally trying to stir the pot you see when a person has an agenda a clear agenda either it's they want to make themselves famous or they want to have more people come to their church services. and he does something based on that agenda then you can't really call him crazy you have to hold him accountable for what he's done and i think there's no question christine in this case that we're talking about an individual that has done something knowing full well that his actions could cause violence and now it's causing violence and it's because of that that we need to be reprimanding him and as objective voices around the world and most of all in the western world most of all from americans and they need to say we do not in any way represent or condone what this man has done the problem is some

of the violence that we're seeing in parts of afghanistan are being caused by people who actually believe well this must be what america thinks of us they hate us so much they want to burn our most important book well the problem is enough of the message of the words that i used in my editorial haven't gotten to these people and i think it's important that we do that if we can't stop him at least we could stop his actions or stop his action in burning the koran by letting people know that as americans we do not stand for this and you're seeing movement here in the united states today with several senators coming together both on the republican side and on the democratic side saying we're going to try and do just that we're going to try and come out with something that says we condemn this man and his actions i think it's different correct i mean in your editorial you used that you know this man needs a talking to you sort of compare it to your children and how do you know they get talking to him when they you know misbehaved. but if there's

a difference between americans coming out coming out in the media coming out together and saying we condemn this action and actually punishing him you know not arresting him i don't know what the punishment would be i mean what do you think that he should be fired that he should be arrested. well that's a great point and i should tell you i'm a i'm a journalist and i was trained as a journalist i wasn't trained as a juror as to raise a lawyer so i will tell you that just from my understanding of the first amendment as least as i've read it and studied it through professors dr gilmore at the university of minnesota. when we use the term free speech people tend to think that it's completely free without restriction speech is not free without restrictions there are restrictions on what you can say for example you're not allowed to libel someone and as oliver wendell holmes said in one nine hundred nineteen you can't

use speech to create violence or incite or cause harm the exact words that he used were a clear and present danger if you know that you will cause a clear and present danger in quotations when you use this type of speech then you could be held accountable for it under the laws of the united states of america all right all right as i leave the area well fall under that exact proviso that is detailed in the limitations of free speech but i very much i'm going to bring up i you know yelling fire in a crowded theater if we're going to talk about supreme court cases i mean i've got to bring into the discussion a more recent one and that is the one with the westboro baptist church the court said one does not lose the right to free speech simply by using that right in an era in iraq or in a reprehensible fashion otherwise the entire concept would be meaningless i mean don't you think that this is simply a case of the majority of americans disagreeing with what he said with what he did

but at the same time we can't pick and choose what free and what's not make no law means make no law. no there's a difference there's a huge difference between the westboro case someone else by the way that i've interviewed several times while he was. doing this and this case and he. here's the difference i think christine and the westboro case people are offended in other words as the law would see it it's their sensibilities that are offended i am hurt you hurt my feelings you made me feel bad when you said that in the case of terry jones it goes beyond hurt feelings it's people being killed being trampled dying twenty two of them so far already so that in and of itself i think is the the distinction between those two cases we in america do believe and as a journalist i uphold that we'll always revere this we do have free speech we have the right to say whatever we want to say but that right has to end at the point

where lives can be lost or people can be hurt or property can be damaged but is it tear out your own vision of these jurors have to make and i would never want to you know defend him but is it terry jones problem or fault that people were so angry about what he did that they killed people was it his fault or was it their fault and i know you said in the beginning that they should be held responsible as well first you know you're right one hundred percent and i want to be real clear about this they are first and foremost responsible the people who have killed trampled committed violence destroyed property are responsible for their own actions primarily terry jones secondarily is responsible for inciting them and not just inciting them but inciting them knowing that they would cause this kind of damage because he was warned and told many many different times real quick read ramos out of time but you know i want to talk to you kind of switching gears a little bit as

a journalist some people have blamed the media for this for giving terry jones the attention in the first place back you know preferred time or eleven back when you interviewed him there was tons of media attention and he actually backed down in this case he didn't do you think the media has any responsibility here. well you know that that's a tough question and this is an editorial decision that at the time we at c.n.n. and many journalists have to make and obviously we looked at it and said in this case and perhaps not in other cases where i have thought about interviewing people and then decided not to interview them because we didn't think that they were i'll give you a perfect example of this there's a preacher in phoenix arizona who said upon the eve of president obama's arrival there that he hated the president and something akin to that he should die but he wanted the president to die he said this in arizona and i called

him and we thought about doing an interview with him after i thought about it i didn't think that he could create enough of the story was out there enough that it had enough legs for us to actually go through with unity so i cancelled the interview i thought i was only going to make it more famous in the case of terry jones the story was already out there in part because he had basically created a website in the summer native so once you get to a point where hundreds of thousands of people have already heard the message and know the story as journalists know we can't avoid it we have to go through and tell the story and it may be more important to confront the man and say sir what you're doing seems to be irresponsible that is to ignore it because then people around the world may not know that the rest of america doesn't agree with them thoroughly an interesting point and one that a lot of us struggle with i mean we've got the internet today much different from ten twenty years ago when you know if we didn't tell the story as they're known for it probably wouldn't get out there that's not the case today rick sanchez do

appreciate you coming on to weigh through a honest journalist author and former c.n.n. host also the author of this book conventional idiocy right in new own mind the new america think of all the politics. want to switch gears now he was arrested in liberia yet his fate will be decided by a judge and jury in america russian pilot konstantin jarosz inco facing trial in new york this afternoon for alleged international drug trafficking there a change of lawyers say the case is outside u.s. jurisdiction due to several violet's violations committed by american officials among them kidnapping torture and rendition artie's honest us here turkey is in our new york studio the latest on the let's talk about this i mean since he was a raster last may moscow has repeatedly called for his release why is this well luckless you know there's this a little thing called jurisdiction and international law that in this case the united states really seems to be underestimating it's actually

a very big deal and this is one of the things that russia has also made a point about not just your defense team that a case any case criminal whatever case it is has to be attached to your graphically to where a crime was committed a so details of a specific case have something to do with the country of where the trial is being held and this is something that is widely being questioned in this particular case and this is most importantly one of the things that the prosecution is trying to throw off the tee ball they're trying to have the judge decide that it will not be discussed whether or not it actually makes sense for this man to be tried in the united states believes that we know is today's hearing has already is already going on for more than three hours this man is certainly doing a lot of waiting for someone who's already been in jail for almost ten months and we have seen five rounds of jury selection take place today and the judge has said he expects that this quote this trial should wrap up within a month we're going to have to wait and see if that's the case for background and

on really what this case is all about let's now go to our report. a legit tons of cocaine a pilot snatched up and brought to a foreign prison and a wrong fax number this is the case of constantine your shango a russian pilot in his forty's scooped up by u.s. officials in liberia last year brought to a manhattan jail and along with four other suspects charged with international drug trafficking. is now a long time he did not even know where he was when he was brought to the u.s. he was put in solitary confinement and he didn't even know he was in the united states constantine's wife victoria just arrived to new york she says her husband was kidnapped by american agents while america says your show was smuggling drugs to south america africa and europe mostly from this way la or liberia the pilot has complained he was beaten and tortured following his arrest. try to beat fights with

him provoking him constantly close to trying to stay away from all that he asked them why are you treating me like this i didn't do anything to you and i have not been found guilty with tory believes the case against her husband was by the u.s. but i have not also why i think that is involved in this is unclear you has never been to the u.s. in his entire life you never had a u.s. visa and wasn't third country upon his arrest. when constantine your shankill was arrested russian officials were not julie notified and moscow cited a breach of international law we have. apologized to russia the state department's excuse we pressed the wrong button on the facts and. to be brutally for notifying romania instead of russia to observers this seemed a joke in a series of questionable details in this case the idea that there's a bank of buttons that they push and i guess if they push the next one they would

have gone to rule rwanda which is next on the alphabetical list so bad sounds like a. strange story and i don't think anyone would buy that your sham course case is often compared to that of victor boot similarly snatched up by the us in thailand and currently on trial in america for arms trafficking some see a tendency here they can use interpol they can use. picking up the phone to russia and trying to talk about this is going on kidnapping people i think this is part of the carry over from the bush cheney administration the defense team has long labeled the case a provocation and unsuccessfully call for its dismissal the prosecution meanwhile has been fighting to limit the scope of issues that can be addressed during the hearings they want to exclude questions regarding the legality of trying your show in a u.s. court allegedly by a lesions in the investigations leading up to his arrest and official conduct during and after the pilot's arrest essentially all the main arguments the

difference after almost ten months constantine your son calls trial date is finally here a jury is deciding his destiny if found guilty he will spend from ten years to a life sentence behind bars. all right on a southie i want to ask you i mean you spent the day with the wife of your shank oh what was she like and what were some of the other things she told you well christine you know surprisingly like we mentioned in that report has been on u.s. soil for almost ten months now but this woman his wife has only been able to arrive to the united states only late last week and she has so far in this almost one year has been able to see her husband once by the time we met with her and certainly twice by today and the woman thirteen year old daughter who came with her to new york are there both baffled.