culture is that so much i am going to call him was an example yesterday the u.s. president barack obama is still an honorable recipient of the nobel peace prize to be fair game here to two wars from assuming office. the world. bringing you the latest in science and technology from around the world. we've got the jerk covered.

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the. way i. play it was. kick. start. low and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle is u.s. president barack obama still an honorable recipient of the nobel peace prize to be fair he inherited two wars but assuming office but he is also a new war on his watch and that is libya should obama's peace prize be revoked and should politicians from future consideration. can

start. to discuss the issues around barack obama's nobel peace prize i'm joined by bill snyder in washington he's a distinguished senior fellow and resident scholar at third way in london we have to take ali he is a writer and filmmaker and in knoxville we have john williams he is the editor and publisher of new millennium writings and another member of our cross talk team deal on hunger right gentlemen this is cross talk that means you can jump in anytime you want bill schneider as i pointed out in the introduction barack obama inherited two wars ok fair enough he didn't stardom a lot of people criticized his escalation of the war in afghanistan and libya is truly his war i mean nobel peace prize and all those noble words and we'll go to some of those words later in the program and being a war president there and it's it's very toxic it's it's made some the not a good mix and and either he should give it back or it should be revoked what do

you think. well. that has not been discussed in the united states and let me point out one thing his administration does not call libya a war it says it's a kinetic action it's a limp time limited objective to try to commit to a save people's lives they do not think of this is a war in fact they don't even use the word regime change even though the president has said and objective is to get khadafi out of power so they would not even acknowledge that this is a war ok because i'm going to you in london is that a lot of newspeak i mean this is a war if you look what's going on on the ground it's a war and i don't care if the american media doesn't want to call it out of the american white house it's a war and this is a man that was given a nobel peace prize. it is a war he was given the nobel peace prize where the nobel committee knew full well that in his election campaign he had said he is going to escalate the war in afghanistan which he has he has had more some pakistan. ordered in

fact more drone attacks under obama bin in the eight previous years of the bush administration so the new wall that he was going to do this when they gave him the prize but they were so relieved to be relieved of bush that they were drooling at the mouth at the side of a bomber and essentially couldn't wait to hand him the prize i mean to be favored he was slightly embarrassed but peter they don't go in for revoking these prizes they have wall zero in their mistakes and i don't think any nobel prize recipient is going to give it back ok don williams i'm going to you in knoxville i think you know to be fair to president obama i think a lot of understanding american foreign policy republican or democrat america has a tendency to go to war infrequently but i thought i think a lot of us not to do a bomber when go into dumb wars like bush went into germ wars. iraq was completely

unnecessary ok and i would argue in a lot of other people in the world a growing coalition of the willing i would call it is against this intervention outside intervention into libya when you think about it. well peter i think comparisons to iraq are odious. start with what's true and what's not president obama was forthright in telling american the world why we must intervene in libya what might disagree with his decision but who could doubt the evidence that he used to build a case to pose a bloodbath it was everywhere before our eyes this was not true of bush and iraq eight years ago the comparison as i say is odious the reasons bush concocted for going to war didn't pass the sniff test bush and cheney told the world that iraqi leader saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction that he was giving them to terrorists that we be greeted as liberators they hated broadly that saddam was then

on nine eleven and none of this was true now if my friends on the right want to believe bush and cheney uttered such things in good faith. they're welcome to that but still these were some of these lies manifestly of time for gregory. curveball code and just last and the recent few weeks has acknowledged that he lied. there was a lot of evidence that. al libi. probably ok but you know i'm not accusing i'm not accusing mr obama of line ok but i'm not yet anyway if i could have bill i mean if we still see you know if we see a u.n. resolution about an embargo of arms to to the rebels and now we see the slippery slope oh now it's not called the war it's not intervention there's no talk of boots on the ground but there was no there was no talk of arming people as well and that is not clearly identified who these people are so i am not calling the president

the united states a liar or not this president but there is this this tendency of slippery it's a slippery slope into a war a full out war and this is what i'm getting at and this is why i'm talking about the nobel peace prize that this is this is not an accidental war now at this point . no one will deny that there are a lot of risks in doing what the president is doing we are getting involved in a civil war that's always dangerous and this could be a very slippery slope the president is certainly aware of that but he saw an opportunity to avert an impending humanitarian disaster within a day in libya there could have been a missile order which was promised by khadafi hundreds of thousands of people though the resistance in that country he saw that the united states might have the ability to make a difference that other countries were willing to act and that was an opportunity he was unwilling to pass up despite the very real risks that you described ok. let's continue with bill's logic so the americans this want to look virtuous in all

of this but there is a possibility there could be a down the road if this isn't managed well and there's nothing to indicate that it is being managed very well but the big the international community is stripping itself into a civil war and where it has no idea what the outcome is going to be. this is exactly right and i would say it to be perfectly frank peter in my opinion this is very little to do with civilian casualties or the fear of civilian casualties after all no one but no one from the west suggested imposing a no fly zone over gaza and no one suggested imposing a no fly zone when lebanon was invaded in attacked a few years ago a sensually what we're witnessing is a western intervention in libya to try and take the initiative in the entire region back from the people on the ground and to build up the credibility of the west i

mean only yesterday bill gates said that the despot in yemen who by the way is killing quite a few people every single day in that can create should stay in power the saudis have been permitted to invade parade and are carrying out a wave of repression in their own create this war in libya the intervention in libya is part of the counter offensive caressed the initiative back then gadhafi who is not an intelligent leader could put it mildly bleed into the hands of the west by bombing is own people and sending his troops in instead of either negotiating or doing the decent thing and quitting so he's played into the hands of the west they've taken the advantage of that trying to get the initiative back and the results we don't know i think what is quite likely is that at the very least libya will now be partitioned like iraq was partitioned with

a no fly zone or gulf war in the kurdish territories ascension it became a u.s. protectorate this could happen in the lebanon on and the consequences of that are unpredictable at the moment it might work but the more likely trances are that it will end up as that. don if i go back feeling knoxville. i think brings up a very good point is that there are other actors in the obama administration and it's very duplicitous a lot of people see a lot of double standards where the united states will stand up take a virtuous stand protect civilians what civilians are still very unclear actually and but it won't do it for other people in the region and i think that you know a lot of people outside of the united states would say because in this really could have used a no fly zone when the israelis were committing atrocities against the gazan population there double standards it still smells of double standards president. you make a good point. and i would only say that just because obama hasn't acted previously

to prevent the slaughter of innocent folks doesn't necessarily mean he's not acting in good faith in this instance i wonder what my friend would say if. we had seen a bloodbath in benghazi then then what with the criticism of obama the point i think he had to act i mean let's face it there is a wave sweeping the middle east and north africa and i think what's needed is a clear obama doctrine and i don't think it's something he should rush into establishing but he's got to tell those waters take a good look and then dive into some because credit or blame will accrue to him no matter what happens ok bill it's interesting i think you know i think i don't think go ahead go ahead bill go ahead. i don't think the president really intended to promulgate an obama doctrine he didn't say this was a precedent this is a new principle for intervention what he said this was

a specific case where we could intervene and make a difference and save lives you could start talking about syria which is after all killing its own people you could talk about god so you can talk about a lot of places the president says we're talking about libya where we saw the opportunity to act and make a difference every other situation is different and many of them like syria are much more complicated so the president didn't seem to want to say this is a new obama doctrine ok time to give my go to you before we go to the break here i think there is a new doctor in here i think there is no obama doctrine coming into play and it's the same thing is the bush doctrine except for we really don't want to put troops on the ground ok and that like to point out hillary clinton says well we're not going to intervene into syria yet go ahead toddy. well i think there is no new doctrine we have had this lying taking place since bill clinton was in office bush continued it and bush lied his way on iraq so blatantly that it put people off the

united states for a long trying obama is now carrying on in the same way and trying to win public opinion back to the idea of western wars of intervention cloaked in humanitarian. logic i don't accept the fact that this is a war in good faith i think this is an opportunist war fought in order to give the west and initiative in a part of the world where they had already lost it and i think all right let me jump in right now for a short break we'll continue our discussion on obama's nobel prize stage with r.t. . if you can.

remind you the latest in science and technology from around the world. we've got the future covered. more news today violence is once again flared up look. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. trying to look for asians are rooted a. mum. you can. be.

welcome back across europe to remind you we're talking about obama's nobel peace prize. but first let's see what russians think about all of this. moot two years ago the newly elected american president barack obama was awarded the nobel peace prize for his. efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples but now as the u.s. intervenes in libya many wonder if the world should be taking away the russian public opinion research center asked citizens one thing to. do about libya sixty percent of the respondents say turmoil is exclusively domestic problem and foreign

countries should not interfere and another term the seven percent believe international community should step in to stop the civil war they are in the ongoing conflict in libya has once again stressed the controversy awarding president obama the u.s. commander in chief with the peace prize. ok gentlemen let's go back to the nobel prize here i'd like to listen to some of the words there brock obama gave the committee which he picked up his award in two thousand and listen to what he had to say. so i come here with a sense of the costs of armed conflict i face the world as it is and cannot stand idle in the face of threats to the american people. for make no mistake evil does exist in the world. well if i go to you bill i've always called obama the commander in speech i mean we have to give him that it least he speaks very well but has he changed is he tainted

the b. award because there's always expediency i mean he was elected by a group of people there is something called even i admit the national interest he's going to act in the national interest as he understands it for his people that voted for him ok and everything else is secondary ok so it ok you got the nobel prize well sorry i'm still going to be commander in chief i mean doesn't it is this it taint the award. the award has already got a few things on it long before barack obama you know we consult with us here are a few are henry kissinger ok i mean that's what a lot of other people larry garrison ger ok but still in this case sadly i mean that when the prize was given to obama americans were surprised and shocked what do you think about that john do you think that we are seeing premature do you think that it was do you think it has the same value now as it does back in two thousand and nine go ahead. yes yes i do because it has been tainted in the past and also

let me just point out that obama inspired the world just by getting elected i know he's got a lot of detractors now especially my part of the country but he did inspire the world just getting elected prevented a person who was singing bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb iran and pointing to one hundred years of possible warfare in iraq. point of fact is obama's put fewer boots on the ground than nearly any of our recent presidents now now he might who knows that could change because there is a lot of turmoil in the world but i don't think you can fault him for acting in libya there's a cost in violence a cost in human lives to not acting and when you've got people marching with banners and people saying we want democracy i think you have to be cognizant of that and have a certain pathy for those folks who could see heartbreak and horror fall from the skies if we did not at ok time to find out she i mean we're giving the nobel peace prize we're sitting president that really hadn't done anything to that point i mean was it just like you pointed out this thing goodness he's not george bush and just

hoping that a war is a preemptive war is coming out of washington would slow down or maybe come to an end i mean it was it was it a an award of hope because it certainly those hopes have been are in tatters right now i mean with. tomahawk missiles being fired and who knows what's in libya today . i don't think it was an award of hope it was an award of wishful thinking and an award of sycophancy i mean if you look at the list of nobel prize prize winners. you have had a lot of u.s. presidents on the list the award has been pretty chained to it i don't know whether you're aware of this peter but in one thousand nine hundred eighty six someone suggested old hitler for the peace prize this was of course not taken up but he was suggesting it might have to mount gandhi never was awarded the peace so it is a pretty there's a there's a very interesting norwegian jury is frederick had from a loose written a book on the nobel peace prize and he says that the peace prize virtually from the

beginning violated alfred nobel's the instructions that nobel had said could put peace prize should only go to those people actively engaged in peace and it's been hijacked by retired norwegian politicians and a cold war academic from the past who handed it out at will and there was a lot of criticism in norway when obama got it and when others caught it i mean this injury is a case in point. but numerous other people have got it and gabrielle garcia marquez himself a prize winner of the nobel prize winning on the critter said it would be more accurate to call it the nobel award price than they would give it to whoever they wanted whenever the vilifying of matthew actually got two people pled guilty to people who know about these prize al gore when we defeated theoretically more votes in two thousand and brock obama i mean that was it was

a real sense that it was so much relief and so much anger george bush they gave it to two different people the one who really deserve the nobel peace prize who didn't get it i'm sure he is i doubt is bill clinton and he did make war in kosovo but that war was seen as a no other humanitarian intervention but clinton has probably done more for peace than any. president jimmy carter you mean carter bring out jimmy carter of peace crisis ok but i mean if i go to john places turn off it i don if i go do you ok go ahead go ahead tell you go ahead i'm going to deserve the praise prize this guy impose sanctions maintain sanctions on iraq madeline albright his secretary of state defended the killing of for at least a million iraq he couldn't because of sanctions saying it was necessary imposed a no wallsten on iraq just scored virtually everything so softening the country for bush and cheney to pick up where he does serve the peace prize give us a break ok don what about what about former politicians foreign policy look at

jimmy carter because jimmy carter is a lot of people criticize him for some of his thoughts since spread his presidency but he i think it's fair to say that even his detractors while he was president say he's done good he's done the best job of a former president could ever do for peace and helping. just poor people in general all the way to we're recognizing different issues around the world that sometimes the media forgets or sometimes gives a certain view on that maybe is very. for american and western interests ok what i'm saying about the middle east but is that a case maybe a former politician has done well because one of my thesis is that politicians probably shouldn't get it at all go ahead john. i think there's a lot of value in giving them to former politicians that sets an example for for others who leave office and can do good works even though their power base no longer exists in a political sense but let's you know so many people get this award though who have no power base except whatever power base the people. or international opinion gives

them i think of two thousand and four one kerry. my theme the pardon my pronunciation but who started this amazing movement to plant trees in kenya and transform the country and made life easier for especially for a woman who had together the firewood and is really helping transform the world into a greener place without the nobel who knows what might become of her and her movement sure and baby this bar judge whose human rights advocacy in iran for women and children was suppressed what might have become of her without the world's attention i think the nobel prize definitely serves i wonderful function in the world yes like anything else it's subject to abuse and i think the jury frankly is still out on obama his legacy is yet to be made but again there is a cost of not acting ok how do you what do you think i mean i can you know in reflecting on when he got the award in looking at his presidency since then it still is in the nobel prize. peace prize is still very the discourse of western.

international relations is still very key it recognizes that is the paradigm and i think a lot of people in the world see it if i you know be very blunt it's kind of a white people's award when it comes to politics it is totally dominated by people who essentially different western inclusive everywhere i mean look at the latest one ok she gave it to the right people i agree shereen about visa case in point but this chinese guy they gave it to loucheux be. the last nobel peace prize it's quite astonishing because though he is in prison and he shouldn't be in prison let me make that very clear the chinese government a food issue keeping him in prison. but his political beliefs are watch one one china should have been colonized for three hundred years by a west or. in order for it to learn civilization that the iraq war was justified that kerry was wrong to criticize bush on the rock war that of

crime is found is justified but the vietnam and korean waltz where was against to try to carry of them back his right this is the guy who gets the nobel peace prize so you know it's obvious that the motive is ideological and the chief of the prize winners jackal in the next norwegian politician said we wanted to teach china a lesson that's really it has exactly the opposite in it's very interesting i mean a lot of the thing a lot of people say that the the chinese dissident who did win the award irritated a lot of people but julian julian assigns irritates a lot of people to and but he's considered a villain by the united states but a hero for so many other people empowering hero by the way and he's certainly not a person that's creating war or promoting conflict. look the chinese this and it was an article in a surprise because of his views on all these previous issues he was given his nobel

peace prize because of his standing defiance of chinese authorities and it work i mean it created a lot of attention to that issue it wasn't because of things he's written in the past the nobel peace prize does best when it's clearly clearly an award for human rights activism but when he gets involved in political controversies on the left or on the right it's always going to be disputed ok dan i'm going to give you the last word on this do you think that obama now has it's incumbent upon him to make good on the his words of being a peacemaker he still got a little time left in his first term. well i hope it's possible i hope it's possible i think the jury is out i think obama's legacy is yet to be made he's only going in office for two years a little over and they've been very distracting years that the whole world faced. economic decline you know he's been distracted every which way and so i think we just have to kind of give him the benefit of doubt all right gentlemen i have to jump in with run out of time let's give mr of the benefit of the doubt many thanks

to my guest today in washington london and in knoxville and thanks to our viewers for watching keith see you next time and remember cross talk rules. rachel martin here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.