well i'm tom hartman in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture the clock is ticking for the house and senate to decide where to make budget cuts who'll win where will the biggest shots take place over government really shut down operations and seventy two hours plus in the shutdown occurs are these guys to blame i mean they only fund the majority of the tea party i'll tell you where other politicians the koch brothers have their back pockets and

a small internet company tries to provide affordable service to residents there is shot down by the media giant time warner out politics and readers screwing the people of wilson north carolina. you need to know this today is judgment day in congress a lawmaker is hoping to prevent a government shutdown on friday given procedural rules a compromise deal on the budget needs to be reached by tonight around a government shutdown at the end of the week unfortunately the prospects of a deal aren't too good earlier today the white house rejected a one week funding proposal by republicans calling a proposal not serious enough president obama face the press to talk about where negotiations stand take a look. as i said before we have now matched the number of the the speaker

originally sought. the only question is whether politics or the ideology or going to get in the way of preventing a government shutdown sentiment senate majority leader harry reid had some harsher words for republicans is that he had to say. for the republicans refuse to recognize and honor but you can simply. propose a strong. core compromise he dirty word and insist on a budget what hurt america rather than help republican has another choice as to decide what you want to do what the country needs and so why is the government of the verge of shutting down is a failure of leadership on the part of republicans joining me now to discuss this issue erick a democratic strategist and david williams president of the taxpayers association alliance great to see you both. erica policy writers there's all kinds of stuff in

these continuing resolution bills. what's the deal here well i mean that by kind of stripping out i mean some people say that they're for messaging and some people say that it allows people kind of really see these little teeny policy pieces but they're not small and they plot stuff like that planned parenthood defunding and it's a way to kind of say the political part and kind of show show it out front so i think you know people talk about writers and talk about you know what's in this bill and what kind of cuts are there and i think i think some people want to be able to say like we voted on this what we get and some people want to say we didn't vote for this look we didn't get it and so it was a little bit of their policy statements that yes do you want to government shutdown was mentioned as a possibility republican caucus me. and i was a little giddy if you know why not you want a government shutdown why not let's just shut the government down for a few days see what happens it's not going to be catastrophic you're not to see

people thrown out in the streets it's probably going to happen over the weekend too so there's not going to be a lot of effect that's seven happened and it ran for what four weeks. or sixteen to . eighteen i think that's today's news cycles i really don't see them shutting the government down that way too long and the passion here we've had no earmarks and i thought they're doing. symbolically because we're talking about budget cuts now and we haven't talked this much about spending cuts for years and finally we're getting into this discussion we should have this is question back during the bush years but we didn't so let's have it now and have some serious talk. ok how much should it cost us to have these symbolic gestures because i mean even boehner is that man and said that that you know don't mistake this is not actually saving money it's not like the government takes a break and you know if you're not spending money then or not you know function and then we're not spending money i mean interruption of contracts is going to have a problem impact on jobs on the economy it could cost billions i mean it's got to

be is not going to be able go nuts and these are the guys who are funding the republican politicians well i don't know if there's really going to be that catastrophic events in the economy but the shutdown i think that they have to go on very much if it goes on for months maybe but it's a political it's a real it's going to somebody's going to their passport they've got to take it to europe they're in trouble well or you know all the tourist industry i mean there's billions and billions of dollars that these small communities make and was heading down the national park service i know that people say look at on a big deal but you know for the mom and pop shops and the florist then the restaurants and the outfitters it's ok i love how the national park service double dips they get an appropriation and then they charge you to go into the national parks but i did write really don't think that we're going to see the sky fall here and why not why not take a weekend to say ok who's been affected social security checks are still going to go out because this is the most we will get why it wasn't because kids here that i mean let's be honest when you were cutting i mean you know it can be what it takes to really run a government office the kind of idea of non-essential people who's going to come

and sit in there and take this i mean we're furloughing people we're sending them home and people that you're suggesting are going to suddenly like come in and assess and say oh this is what works in the studio i love the position that you're taking is that we really don't need to go this way too we're going to show the government we don't need any shutdown if you will address and that's where the curator needs an emergency services right so we're not saying that we're turning away to. and i would submit to you that what the american people want is not less government they want a government that works well for a government like we had under jack kennedy for example like we had hundreds of eisenhower when we had the government under dwight eisenhower corporations are paying thirty percent of the cost the federal government right now they paid six point six percent we had government under the white eisenhower rich people were paying ninety one percent tax rate right now the two billion dollar your guys on wall street are paying fifteen percent thanks to the bush tax cut we had government under glide eisenhower and under jack kennedy and under richard nixon and under lyndon johnson and all the way up to and jimmy carr all the way up to the first four years of the reagan administration you had we had basically no deficits from

george washington until ronald reagan he blows apart taxes on rich people and and david stockman comes right out and says oh we're going to do this to create a crisis so there won't be any money to fund democratic programs so you know you've got jude wouldn't be saying we write in the wall street journal to santa clause three democrats in santa clauses was so scary for years we got to figure out if he had a closet idea how to be santa clauses cut taxes who cares if there's a deficit it'll put the rich the democrats back to the well it has worked perfectly what you guys are doing and i think it's going to bite you when you say you guys i'm not a republican i'm an independent and the republicans are part of the problem they started this problem in one thousand nine hundred six when they turned away from the tax try try one hundred eighty six well when they reagan national deficit he had two recessions and he got us out of the second recession by spending two trillion dollars i'm not going to shed a tear when some of these corporate welfare programs are unfunded over the weekend and we have we have an e-mail and that is what you want you know it's out there we

should examine it and the democrats put a bill out there to defund the kind of these programs that were given corporate offered way i mean what the energy companies and their republican is in front of them however cranston i have to say that you had a moral high ground here today and i think. if we look at this we need a budget that works for every american not just for the record. he works for everybody i mean ok so you don't have all the programs he would cut ok first of all that one of the programs you'd fund right i mean look you know what i'm going to say fine let's go the other way because they are free and this is that's what this is about because the democrats have said that they will cut and then they cut thirty billion and the part of the goalpost has been moved i mean painter said initially a thirty billion in cuts and then suddenly reid's been telling us another seven billion so let's talk about what you do you want to fund do you want to find old people and sick people and do you want a time when they will get it on that everything old going to be able to get medicare if we shut down the government and medicare is going to go well yeah i'm going to get what the average the average income of

a person over sixty five in the united states is one thousand nine thousand six hundred dollars and those people are going to be given a voucher for a couple thousand bucks so they can buy a fifteen or twenty times now you're excused that that's not ryan's budget that's not part of the c.r. that's not part of the shutdown so don't mix the two here it's too early to get into. this i mean this is all part of the same i think here's just a just a very straightforward question and mostly to you david who is in charge of the republican party right now john boehner comes out and says oh yeah we're going to work this thing out i mean literally comes out talk of the price is going to work this thing goes back into a meeting with his own caucus comes back out now or half later goes. for i don't know if it's longer that that that's a great question and i would not want to be john boehner for a lot of reasons right now he has two sides point against and no matter what he does he's going to lose if he doesn't ask for enough budget cuts he's going to lose if you ask for too much he's going to lose those not very agreeable to john peter right now and i don't think it's really about john boehner i think it's about america and i think sometimes you make what leadership is about is making tough

decisions and deciding what's best for this country and whether or not i learned early and also you know about america and there i don't i don't point six trillion dollar deficit we have a fourteen trillion dollar debt that now the democrats have addressed surely it would be a real blow to actually listen address that he gave us a friggin surplus that was my teen mom and i got to tell you that is. well that was two thousand rocket on also commissioned the federal deficit commission i mean like there it's not as if democrats are walking away from this and saying that oh we're not going to play ball here but if they were doing was playing ball and that ends up a very lopsided thing when you've got john boehner i mean coming in saying ok you know we don't want to shut down the government but then saying to his caucus we're going to start circling the planet is basically a right i'll never do it is only going up to please the commission for a vote why didn't when boehner comes and he said i'm a fair negotiator here and i turned his caucus we're going to plan for a government shutdown on monday night and coming out and saying you know ok well the thirty billion that you guys have agreed we now need to move that even further so we're going to paraphrase negotiation who is the adult who is the person that

actually care what happened in the house and the rest of. it talks were for many many weeks it's just until recently it that really gave so they've had a lot of time to come out and talk about this but now it's playing catchup incidences we are spending a regime but that doesn't mean they can't talk about the big as i think you think think one of us has not been talking about it that they have and steve the. burden is out there but i mean these are the house the spending originates in the house the burden is on him to show leadership intent and a man not understand doesn't fade here's the question if they can't work this out on may fifth fifteenth we've got our debt ceiling and. that's the point at which we started this symptom of a bigger audience this is a real disaster we have and it's really a limited bigger problem that we have is going through with the budget process because before that you have in the republic the republicans have no i think republicans have the democrats and we just have as a country because we get so entrenched on our sides that we're not willing to listen to the other side you have senator tom coburn who took the fiscal commission

and said i like this we should pass this and he got a vista rated by people on the right saying that includes tax increases where was the house and senate leadership to bring up a fiscal commission ideas for a vote they were absent it came out in december they were absolutely absent in bringing that up a little bit and nobody brought it up very bright over that was an idea that. haven't done anything and i'm thinking i'm going to nothing with that and the matter not in the way you're supposed to have the fiscal commission the reason why the president had no point why it wasn't just passed by the time in the house because the republicans held their support who didn't pass the budget last year ok let's look oh ok so now there's a worried look look absolutely both parties you think you have control of the house instead of last year when the budget did you know personally absolutely one senator anything so it's not a matter of the entire democratic leadership so this is a lame john boehner fault but last year when the budget wasn't passed it was everybody thought we really didn't have to go to do we are you saying we just have a few seconds left didn't you just a minute ago say no matter how this plays out john boehner loses absolutely so do

we have a consensus here that the republicans are going to need them i think both parties are really worried about how this is going to walk to the rest of the country because senate people want to compromise on that and the only person is sitting down and refusing to compromise right now is speaker boehner and i think that you know the american people are going to be really disappointed that's going to point back to their feeling that the government doesn't work for them and doesn't let's not going to vote so the republicans a. collection of thank you very much bigger do appreciate your being here one of the biggest problems about a government shutdown frankly is the way the media is playing this as sports who's going to win or who's going to lose which team will get the blame and who get the praise and perhaps even more importantly there's been a complete amnesia about how a small tax increase on the super rich during the clinton administration passed without a single republican vote after newt gingrich took to the floor to predict that that tax increase would lead to a great depression within a year that's three percent tax increase led to the first balanced budget even

a surplus in generations i'll have more on this insights to take. it's time for our daily poll your chance to tell us what you think here's that is question paul ryan wants to x.-men care of medicaid and social security will anyone raise taxes on the rich your choices are eight yes democrats would like to see the economy we had under clinton with a balanced budget or are being no republicans are hell bent on ruining the lives of the poor rather than getting a few niggles and getting a few nickels for the rich but cowards over ninety percent of you voted no log on wolf thom hartmann dot com and let us know what you think the bill will be open until tomorrow morning coming up the failure of republicans agreeing on a proposed budget be the direct effect of the koch brothers support for this cover just how much clout they have capitol hill.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't i'm sorry this is the future.

so if harry reid is right and the government is about to shutdown because the tea party is blocking republicans when they go shooting table does that mean that those who fund the tea party like the billionaire koch brothers have the power to shut down our government if so it might just add to the growing anger toward the coax that's bubbling up among the american people it seems that the more the public finds out about the billionaire koch brothers their political exploits the more anger the public gets yesterday more than two thousand protesters marched on the d.c. offices of koch industries to recognize the forty third anniversary of the assassination of the reverend dr martin luther king jr who was killed while supporting the rights of sanitation workers to unionize in tennessee the koch brothers were a target yesterday because they bankrolled efforts around the nation to attack the

rights of union workers take a look at some of the scenes from the rally. despite the fact that last week's tea party gathering here in d.c. that garnered a few dozen people it's picked up on loads of different media outlets boxset of their yesterday's protest with far more people receive no mainstream news coverage whatsoever why is that with more on this plus the latest on what's going on with the koch brother lapdogs scott walker in wisconsin i'm joined by reporter and blogger at think progress alex sites well alex welcome to the program thank so much from the back thank you great to have you there koch protests yesterday what kind of press was on hand and how come we didn't see anything about this while i was on hand but aside from that i saw a few foreign press members and

a few other progressive reporters i think i think i counted total of three reporters i mean i didn't see every one that's not a complete representative sample but you know we there are two thousand people out there that's according to an essay us meant two thousand and eight hundred some tea partiers a week earlier yeah the network news the estimates range from a few dozen to a maximum about two hundred to fifty so you know about ten times smaller than this rally that we had yesterday two thousand people marching the treasury department to others washington d.c. offices trying to deliver an invitation to have david koch and charles koch come out and talk to them not surprisingly the doors were locked in the building and they did not speak but yeah i mean we at think progress looked at this and there was actually more references to the tea party on the same day of the rally then to this rally even though the tea party did hold a rally on that exact same day why well i mean you know there's a lot of reasons i don't think there's any kind of conservative bias evident here in the in the mainstream media but i think it's more of a herd mentality you know the political mainstream political price in d.c.

kind of goes by what everyone. this is doing so the tea party is a big story therefore it gets lots of media attention therefore it's a big story so you know when there's a tea party rally circular the dog chasing its tail kind of thing exactly that isn't there another possibility though i mean you know we both live in the city and we walk by these big p.r. firms and you know some democratic some republican some corporate whatever but i mean they're they're like you know million dollar lobbies and fancy i mean they got a lot of dough and many of them had a lot of power a lot of influence in the process so if the tea party is going to happen and the koch brothers pay a p.r. firm twenty thousand bucks or two hundred thousand bucks to make sure it gets the network news even if two hundred people show up a gets on the network news if two thousand people marched to the room to the koch brothers office but they haven't hired one of these big p.r. firms it doesn't get on the network is that conspiracy theory make any sense what's possible i mean i haven't seen you know specific evidence supporting it but there's

but it's absolutely true that when you have a huge amount of money back in any kind of political effort you're going to attract more attention because you can pay for the p.r. firms you can pay to have you know organizers come out so it is cheaper to the west coast one was a p.r. firm that's right and you guys reported yeah and for example the tea party express which is one of the biggest tea party organizations raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in the last cycle and it's a plan to is literally run by rousseau and marched in sacramento here for people go yeah i understand that scott walker the koch brothers lapdog in wisconsin the governor is gauged a little cronyism. well i did i think referring to tonight there's an election in wisconsin for the state supreme court actually i was thinking about the appointment that he made of the drunken sot of oh yes as donors there's a lot of cronyism going on since he did it yeah this is really remarkable so he appointed you know a son of one of his big campaign donors to an eighty six thousand dollars

a year position and this guy didn't doesn't have a college degree didn't clean. college has two drunken driving records. convictions on his record so you know clearly not qualified for this and he's overseeing environmental and you know consumer safety regulations so you know you can decide for yourself what you think it's called. the recall efforts in wisconsin you know they just filed their first recall effort a few days ago they far surpassed the number of signatures that they needed to to begin this first of the six or eight whatever it is that for the public and senators and the way these things work is as soon as you reach the number of signatures required assuming they're certified they the election happens automatically if a recall election and so that the current senator faces off against the challenger so we already have one that should be should be going on and the other ones are proceeding ahead here that they're collecting signatures faster than they expected in regard to the budget and the government shutdown if the tea party republicans in

the republican caucus or the group that are blocking this whole thing in and. apparently enthusiastically i mean claudine in very enthusiastically trying to forward a government shutdown literally a policy that's not actually in the house right now you can go to yeah. and most of these guys are put there with money from the koch brothers or from their their buddies basically from that crowd does that mean that we have a shadow government that there is that there's a bunch of billionaires and millionaires who really are are running our government but i think it's exactly what they would like to see happen and i think we're starting to see them putting that into place and you know form the infrastructure and these groups whether it's think tanks p.r. firms advocacy organizations grassroots supposedly grassroots organizations i think they're starting to form that now with this election and these freshmen in congress they actually have representation in the halls of congress and you know for example own representatives congressman pump aoe from from camp kansas from the coke

industry. home district was funded almost entirely or a huge portion of his campaign contributions and support came directly from koch industries and from the koch brothers so you know if they need anything done any kind of piece of legislation going on and congressman calmly a democrat proposed today that this effort to you know destroy the e.p.a. is ability to manage climate change even though the supreme court said that they have to oppose it i thought was a great idea to change the name to the koch brothers appreciation act there you go alex thanks so much for dropping by thanks so much for the great research and blogging and for taurine you're doing thank you thank you a lot of corporations to own government frankly is not a new idea at all back in the one nine hundred twenty s. and then into the one nine hundred thirty s. there was this guy in italy by the name of benito mussolini and he had this idea that he had a word for it the old symbol of the roman empire was called the fascist it was this

bunch of sticks together with a rope around it and there was a hatchet sometimes stuck into it you could see you can see them in the u.s. capitol building and the and the whole idea was the sticks together can't be broken whereas an individuals to can the fashion was the bundle i was the latin name for the bundle so so miscellany invented this word fascism really giovanni gentile. who is ghostwriter invented this this word fascism and he this really great idea he even dissolved the elected parliament and replaced it with the come out although they see a dell a corporate. one knee which is talian for the chamber of the fascist corporations in other words your congressional district is no longer represented in parliament by or in congress the equivalent congress by the guy that you elected it's represented by the largest corporation in

your district. this merger of corporations and government mussolini described was precious and he thought it was just this wonderful thing and so the question that i'm yes and i think we really need to you know not rhetorical we really really need to seriously consider this is how always what mostly needed replacing elected politicians with corporate representatives any different from what we're doing right now having our corporate entities come in and basically by our elected politicians and run them it concerns me greatly and i think it should concern all of us. it's what i have time for today it's the good the bad of the very very mind

bogglingly ugly first up the good democratic congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz the representative from florida's taking a tough stance on the ongoing budget negotiations demanding that republicans don't include a funding planned parenthood provision in the budget wasserman schultz said we would face a crisis in terms of the explosion of cancer particular more advanced stage cancer if women didn't have access to the services that planned parenthood provides so it might be time to take sides in the in the war. by republicans against women i for one am on a congresswoman from floors side. sure and angle in another movie just confirms what about a voters thought last year that she's too wacky to serve in the senate angle is now arguing that there are enemies within our government her campaign sent out an e-mail last night arguing that this touches radical groups like al qaeda that threaten our liberty maybe many of our own leaders elected leaders have decided

that the constitution is archaic and therefore threaten the american way of life for us and future generations. when asked about the email in a t.v. interview angle said this. is the enemy and said at federal government elected members of congress or senate that back to me well certainly relief we've seen some leadership that has embraced things that we as americans are are really shocked at seeing and i think that that comes directly from the leadership of the president right the president is an enemy of the state how creative as long as angles on the republican ticket somewhere. democrats look good at the very very ugly gretchen karl's gang on fox and friends this morning was debating whether or not colorado police were right in after sprained unruly eight year old at an elementary school who they said with was threatening the teachers again what's going on an eight year old second grader who police pepper sprayed and guess who agree with their decision

gretchen carlson she defended the police by saying this on t.v. this morning. he said quote get away from me you and then a word that starts with i say one hundred percent pepper spray you do. something and some parenting classes as well if you are a police officer tell me can you take any role without pepper spray i think this is yes absolutely right in my book it's called discipline i don't think it's called discipline that's right gretchen carlson thinks pepper spray an eight year old is good discipline that's very very little. coming up lawmakers in montana are beefing up their dui laws but it might hit one of the state's representatives were hurts his bank account. for.

it also mentions the a story and it seems so easy to understand it in any glimpse something else hears sees some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry there's a big fish.