well i'm john hartman in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture the clock is ticking for the house and senate to decide where to make budget cuts who'll win where will the biggest chops take place over government really shut down operations and seventy two hours plus it shut down occurs these guys to blame i mean they only fund the majority of the tea party people that tell you what other politicians the koch brothers have their back pockets and

a small internet company tries to provide affordable service to residents but is shot down by the media giant time warner our politics and greed are screwing the people of wilson north carolina. you need to know this today is judgment day in congress a lawmaker is hoping to prevent a government shutdown on friday given procedural rules a compromise deal of the budget needs to be reached by tonight run a government shutdown at the end of the week unfortunately the prospects of a deal aren't too good earlier today the white house rejected a one week funny proposal by republicans calling the proposal not serious enough president obama face the press to talk about where negotiations stand take a look. as i said before we have now matched the number of the speaker

originally sought. the only question is whether politics or the ideology or going to get in the way of preventing a government shutdown senate and senate majority leader harry reid had some harsher words for republicans is what he had to say. for the republicans refused to recognize a guy didn't simply. record compromise he dirty word and since on a budget hurt america rather than helping republican has another very big choice as to decide what to do what to do what the country needs to do so why is the government on the verge of shutting down is a failure of leadership on the part of republicans joining me now to discuss this issue democratic strategist and david williams president of the taxpayers association alliance great to see you both. erica policy writers there's all kinds

of stuff in these continuing resolution bills. what's the deal here i mean by kind of stripping out i mean some people say that they're for messaging and some people say that it allows for the kind of really see these little tea policy pieces but they're not small and they plot stuff like planned parenthood defunding and it's a way to kind of say this political part and kind of show show it upfront so i think you know people talk about writers and talk about you know what's in this bill and what kind of cuts are there and i think i think you know some people want to be able to say like we voted on this what we did and some people want to say we didn't vote for this little we didn't care and so it was a little bit of their policy statements that yes to want to government shutdown was mentioned as a possibility in republican caucus mean. you got to get in. and i was a little giddy if you know why not want a government shutdown why not let's just shut the government down for a few days see what happens it's not going to be catastrophic you're not not going

to see people thrown out in the streets it's probably going to happen over the weekend some of that is not going to be a lot of the feckless i would have been if it ran for what four weeks or something or sixteen to. your but i think that's the day's news cycles i really don't see them shutting the government down way too long and the passion here we've had no earmarks in my father do it. symbolically because we're talking about budget cuts now and we haven't talked this much about spending cuts for years and finally we're getting into this discussion we should have had this is question back during the bush years but we didn't so let's have it now we'll have some serious accusations ok how much should it cost us to have these symbolic gestures because i mean even boehner is that man and said that they don't mistake this is not actually saving money it's not like the government takes a break and if you're not spending money then are not optional and then we're not spending money i mean the interruption of contracts is going to have a problem and act on on jobs and on the economy it could cost billions i mean it's

not going nuts and these are the guys who are funding the republican politicians i don't know if there's really going to be that catastrophic events in the economy but the shutdown i think i finally got the girl and very much if it goes on for months maybe but it's a political it's a real it's going to somebody's going to their passport and they've got a ticket to europe they're in trouble or you know all the tourist industry i mean there's millions and millions of dollars that these small communities make and we should have down the national park service i know that people say oh look at on a big deal but you know for the mom and pop shops and the florist then the restaurants and the outfitters it's a tricky i love all the national park service double dips they get an appropriation then they charge you could win the national parks but i'd rather really don't think that we're going to see the sky fall here and why not why not take a week and just say ok who's been affected social security checks are still going to go out because it's too much free will that was a good you know that i mean let's be honest when you were cutting i mean you know it can be what it takes to really run a government and that's the kind of idea of non-essential people who's going to

come and sit in there and take this i mean we're furloughing people we're sending them home and people that you're suggesting are going to suddenly like come in and assess and say oh this is what works in the through the in the position that you're taking is that we really don't need to go that there's way too there are certain aspects of the government we don't need and the shutdown if you will address and the curative needs and emergency services right so we're not saying that we're turning away the. and i would submit to you that what the american people want is not less government they want to government that works well for government like we had under jack kennedy for example like we had hundreds of white eisenhower when we had the government under dwight eisenhower corporations are paying thirty percent of the cost the federal government right now they're paid six point six percent we had government under dwight eisenhower rich people were paying ninety one percent tax rate right now the two billion dollar your guys on wall street are paying fifteen percent thanks to the bush tax cut we had government under dwight eisenhower and under jack kennedy and into richard nixon and under lyndon johnson and all the way up to and jimmy carr all the way up to the first four years of the

reagan administration you had we had basically no deficits from george washington until ronald reagan he blows apart taxes on rich people and and david stockman comes right out and says oh well we're going to do this to create a crisis so there won't be any money to fund democratic programs so you know you've got to do in a ski saying it right in the wall street journal to santa clause three democrats in santa clauses was so scary for years we got to figure out if he had a cause and i got to be santa clauses cut taxes who cares if there's a deficit it'll put the rich the democrats back to the wall it has worked perfectly what you guys are doing and i think it's going to bite you when you say you guys i'm not a republican i'm an independent and the republicans are part of the problem they started this problem in one thousand nine hundred six when they turned away from the tax try tried one hundred eighty six well when they reagan national deficit he had two recessions and he got us out of the second recession by spending two trillion dollars i'm not going to shed a tear when some of these corporate welfare programs are unfunded over the weekend and we have even you know and that is what you would like you know it's out of

there we should examine it and the democrats put a bill out there to defund kind of this program that we're getting clobbered off air away i mean what the energy companies and that they're republicans been trying to govern how their parents are not how they can have a moral high ground if they and they like i think if we look at this we need a budget that works for every american not just the rest. he works for anybody i mean anything to the programs he would cut ok first one of the programs he'd fund right i mean let's not say fine let's go the other way because they are afraid and this is that's what this is about because the democrats have said that they will cut and then they cut thirty billion and the particle post has been moved i mean peter said initially thirty billion in cuts and then suddenly reid being told needs another seven billion so let's talk about what you do you want to find do you want to find old people and sick people and do you want a time when they will get it on that they really know what's going to be able to get medicare if we shut down the government for all the ryan medicare is going to go away well you know already that late i think it left the average the average

income of a person over sixty five in the united states is nineteen thousand six hundred dollars and those people are going to be given a voucher for a couple thousand bucks so they can buy a fifteen or twenty five you know your cute story but that's not ryan's budget that's not part of the c.r. that's not part of the shutdown so don't mix the two here it's. hard to break this i mean this is all part of the same ok here's just a just a very straightforward question and mostly to you david who is in charge of the republican party right now john boehner comes out and says oh yeah we were going to work this thing out i mean literally comes out and talks the president work this thing goes back into a meeting with his own caucus comes back out now or half later goes. where i go to work this thing that they've got a great question and i would not want to be john boehner for a lot of reasons right now he has two sides point against him in a matter what he does he's going to lose if he doesn't ask for enough budget cuts he's going to lose if you ask for too much he's going to lose those not very agreeable to john peter right now i don't think it's really about john boehner i think it's about america and i think sometimes you make what leadership is about is

making tough decisions and deciding what's best for this country and whether or not i learned early and also again about america and their six trillion dollar deficit we have a fourteen trillion dollar debt that none of the democrats have addressed surely you know real but actually it was an address did he give us a friggin surplus that was nineteen and i before he got it i was. two thousand rockets i'm also commissioned the federal deficit commission i mean like they're it's not as if democrats are walking away from this and saying that oh we're not going to play ball here but it they're dealing with playing ball and that ends up a very lopsided thing when you've got john boehner i mean coming in phang ok you know we don't want to shut down the government but then saying to his caucus we're going to start second over the plans basically while the bridge is only going up to fifty thousand machine for a vote why didn't win dana comes on he said i'm a fair negotiator here and i'm telling his caucus we're going to plan for a government shutdown on monday night and coming out and saying you know ok well the thirty billion that you guys have agreed we now need to move that even further so where is the fair trade negotiations with the adult who is the person that

actually care what happened in the house and the rest of the. talks were for many many weeks is just until recently it really gave and they've had a lot of time to come out and talk about this but now it's playing catch up constitution so that all spending a regime that is me they can talk about it and be they began to i think you think think what else is not in talking about it that they have and see the. i don't mean the burden is over here for thirty years i mean that's the kind of the house the spending originates in the house the burden is on him to show leadership and to and the man not understand us and say here's the question if they can't work this out on may fifth fifteenth we get our debt ceiling and. that's the point at which we started to solve them a big i mean this is real disaster we haven't really you know the motive bigger problem that we have in this country with the budget process because the more that you have in the republican side the republicans have no i think republicans have the democrats and we just have as a country because we get so entrenched on our sides that we're not willing to listen to the other side you have senator tom coburn who took

a fiscal commission and said i like this we should pass this and he got a vista rated by people on the right saying that includes tax increases where was the house and senate leadership bring up a fiscal commission ideas for a vote they were absent it came out in december they were absolutely absent in bringing that up i knew about that but you brought it up you brought up that was an idea that. haven't done anything and i'm thinking that i'm going to nothing with that in that matter right from the way we're supposed to have the fiscal commission the reason why the president had a point why wasn't just passed by the senate and house because the republicans pulled their support who didn't pass the budget last year ok it looks like there was so nicely worded look look yeah absolutely both parties you think you have control of the house instead of last year when the budget didn't you know first of all it takes absolutely one senator to stop anything so it's not a matter of the entire democratic leadership so this is lame john boehner but less you're going to budge it wasn't passed it was everybody thought he really didn't take it do you do you think we just have a few seconds left didn't you just a minute ago say no matter how this plays out john boehner loses absolutely so do

we have a consensus here that the republicans are going to need this then i think both parties are really worried about how this is going to walk to the rest of the country either side of people want to compromise on their ass and the only person a sitting down and refusing congress right now is speaker boehner and i think that you know the american people are going to be really disappointed that's going to point back to their feeling that the government doesn't work for them it doesn't lessen about seventy republicans or. collection of thank you very much. to do your being here one of the biggest problems about a government shutdown frankly is the way the media is playing this as sports who's going to win or who's going to lose which team will get the blame and who get the praise and perhaps even more importantly there's been a complete amnesia about how a small tax increase on the super rich during the clinton administration passed without a single republican vote after newt gingrich took to the floor to predict that that tax increase would lead to a great depression within a year that's three percent tax increase led to the first balanced budget even

a surplus in generations we'll have more on the same sites to take. it's time for our daily poll your chance to tell us what you think here's that is question paul ryan wants to axe medicare medicaid and social security will anyone raise taxes on the rich your choices are eight yes democrats would like to see the economy we had under clinton with a balanced budget or being no republicans are hell bent on ruining the lives of the poor rather than getting a few nickels and getting a few nibbles for the rich what cowards over ninety percent of you voted no log on to the tom hartman di problem let us know what you think the whole be open until tomorrow coming up with the failure of republicans agreeing on a proposed budget be the direct effect of the koch brothers support for this cover just how much clout they have capitol hill.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realized everything you saw you don't understand hard to see.

so if harry reid is right and the government is about to shut down because the tea party is blocking republicans when they go shooting table does that mean that those who fund the tea party like the billionaire code brothers have the power to shut down our government if so it might just add to the growing anger toward the coax that's bubbling up among the american people it seems that the more the public finds out about the billionaire koch brothers their political exploits the more anger the public gets yesterday more than two thousand protesters marched on the d.c. offices of koch industries to recognize the forty third anniversary of the assassination of the reverend dr martin luther king jr who was killed while supporting the rights of sanitation workers to unionize in tennessee the koch brothers were a target yesterday because they bankrolled efforts around the nation to attack the

rights of union workers to look at some of the scenes in the rally. despite the fact that last week's tea party gathering here in d.c. that garnered a few dozen people has picked up on loads of different media outlets fox out of their yesterday's protest with far more people receive no mainstream news coverage what's so ever why is that with more on this plus the latest on what's going on with the koch brothers lapdog scott walker in wisconsin i'm joined by reporter and blogger at think progress alex sites well alex welcome to the program thanks so much for me i'll come back thank you great to have you. protest yesterday what kind of press was on hand and how come we didn't see anything about this for a while i was on hand but aside from that i saw

a few foreign press members and you know a few other progressive reporters i think i think i kind of a total of three reporters i mean i don't see everyone that's not a complete representative sample but you know we there are two thousand people out there that's according to an essay us to two thousand and eight hundred some tea partiers a week earlier yeah the network news the estimates range from a few dozen to a maximum about two hundred to fifty so you know about ten times smaller than this rally that we had yesterday two thousand people march in the treasury department to the koch brothers washington d.c. offices try to deliver an invitation to have david koch and charles koch come out and talk to them not surprisingly the doors were locked the building and they did not speak but yeah i mean we i think progress looked at this and there's actually more references to the tea party on the same day of the rally then to this rally even though the tea party did hold a rally on that exact same day why well i mean you know there's a lot of reasons i don't think there's any kind of conservative bias evident here in the in the mainstream media but i think it's more of a herd mentality you know the political mainstream political press in d.c.

kind of goes by what everyone. is doing so the tea party is a big story therefore it gets lots of media attention therefore it's a big story so you know when there's a tea party rally circular the dog chasing its tail can think xander is it isn't there another possibility though i mean you know we both live in the city and we walk by these big p.r. firms and you know some democratic some republican some corporate whatever but i mean they're they're white you know million dollar lobbies and fancy i mean they've got a lot of dough and many of them have a lot of power a lot of influence with the press so if a tea party is going to happen and the koch brothers pay a p.r. firm twenty thousand bucks or two hundred thousand bucks to make sure it gets the network news even if two hundred people show up to get some the network news if two thousand people marched to the koch brothers office but they haven't hired one of these big p.r. firms it doesn't get on the network is that conspiracy theory make any sense what's possible i mean i haven't seen you know specific evidence of that but there's but

it's absolutely true that when you have a huge amount of money backing any kind of political effort you're going to attract more attention because you can pay for the p.r. firms you can pay to have you know organizers come out so it is the tea party the west coast one was a p.r. firm that was organized that's right and you guys were yeah i mean for example a tea party express which is one of the biggest tea party organizations raise hundreds of thousands of dollars in the last cycle and it's to play to is literally run by russo and martians in sacramento to hear from people go yeah i understand that scott walker the koch brothers lapdog in wisconsin the governor is gauge a little cronyism. well i've been i think referring to tonight when there's an election in wisconsin for the state supreme court i actually i was thinking about the appointment that he made of the drunken son of oh yes as donors there's a lot of cronyism going on since he did it and yet this is really remarkable that he appointed you know a son of one of his big campaign donors to an eighty six thousand dollars

a year position and this guy didn't doesn't have a college degree didn't clean. college has to drop in driving records. you see the convictions on his record so you know clearly not qualified for this and he's overseeing environmental and you know consumer safety regulations so you know you can decide for yourself what you think is called yeah i'll go to the recall efforts in wisconsin you know they just filed their first recall effort a few days ago they far surpass the number of signatures that they needed to to begin this first of the six or eight or whatever it is that for the public and senator it's great and the way these things work is as soon as you reach the number of signatures required assuming they're certified they the election happens automatically to recall election and so that the current senator faces off against the challenger so we already have one that that should be should be going on and the other ones are proceeding ahead here that they're collecting signatures faster than they expected it are going to be a budget and the government shutdown if the tea party republicans in the republican

caucus or the group that are blocking this whole thing in and apparently enthusiastically i mean a lot even in very enthusiastically trying to forward a government shutdown literally a place i'd actually in the house right now you can go to yeah. and most of these guys were put there with money from the koch brothers or from their their buddies basically from that crowd does that mean that we have a shadow government that there is that there's a bunch of billionaires and millionaires who really are are running our government and i think that's exactly what they would like to see happen and i think we're starting to see them putting that into place and to you know form the infrastructure and these groups whether it's think tanks p.r. firms advocacy organizations grassroots suppose the grassroots organizations i think they're starting to form that now with this election and these freshmen in congress they actually have representation in the halls of congress and you know for example only represents congressman pompei o from from kansas from the koch

industry. home district was funded almost entirely or a huge portion of his campaign contributions and support came directly from koch industries and from the koch brothers so you know if they need anything done any kind of piece of legislation going on and congressman calmly a democrat proposed today that this effort to destroy the e.p.a. is ability to manage climate change even though the supreme court said that they have to calmly propose a thought was a great idea to change the name to the koch brothers appreciation act. alex thanks so much for dropping by thanks so much for the great research and blogging and reporting that you're doing make it better for you a lot of corporations to own government frankly is not a new idea at all back in the one nine hundred twenty s. and then into the one nine hundred thirty s. there was this guy italy by the name of benito mussolini and he had this idea that he had a word for it the old symbol of the roman empire was called the fascist it was this

bunch of sticks together with a rope around it and there was a hatchet sometimes stuck into it like you could see you can see them in the u.s. capitol building and the and the whole idea was the sticks together can't be broken whereas an individual stick him in the fashion it was the bundle i was the latin name for the bundle so so most lenny invented this word fascism really giovanni gentile close and his ghost writer invented this this word fascism and he this really great idea he even dissolved the elected parliament and replaced it with the come out all of us see a dell a corporate. you know i'm sorry. i don't need which is talian for the chamber of the fascist corporations in other words your congressional district is no longer represented in parliament by or in congress the equal of congress by the guy that you elected it's represented by the largest corporation in

your district. this merger of corporations and government mussolini described was fascism and he thought it was just this wonderful thing and so the question that i'm asking and i think we really need to you know not rhetorical if we were to really need to seriously consider this is how is what most away needed replacing elected politicians with corporate representatives any different from what we're doing right now having our corporate entities come in and basically by our right to part with patients and run them it concerns me greatly and i think it should concern all of us. it's that i feel it's time for tonight's the good the bad of the very very mind

bogglingly ugly first up the good democratic congresswoman debbie wasserman schultz the representative from florida is taking a tough stance on the ongoing budget negotiations demanding that republicans don't include a defunding planned parenthood provision in the budget washerman schultz said we would face a crisis in terms of the explosion of cancer particular more advanced stage cancer if women didn't have access to the services that planned parenthood provides it's like oh my niece trying to take sides in the in the war. by republicans against women i for one am on the congresswoman from florida side. sharon angle in another movie just confirms what about of voters thought last year that she's too wacky to serve in the senate angle is now arguing that there are enemies within our government her campaign sent out an email last night arguing that such as radical groups like al qaeda that threaten our liberty maybe many of our own leaders elected leaders have decided that the constitution is archaic and therefore

threaten america a way of life for us and future generations. when asked about the you know in the t.v. interview angle so this. is that to me and said federal government elected members of congress or senate that happened to me well certainly we've we've seen some leadership that has embraced things that we as americans are are really shocked at seeing and i think that that comes through record from the leadership of the president right the president is an enemy of the state how creative as long as angles on the republican side get some more. democrats look good at the very very ugly gretchen carlson gang on fox and friends this morning was debating whether or not colorado police were right in pepper spraying unruly eight year old at an elementary school who they said with was threatening the teachers again we're talking on an eight year old second grader who police pepper sprayed and guess who

agree with their decision gretchen carlson she defended the police by saying this on t.v. this morning. he said quote get away from me you and then a word that starts what i say one hundred percent pepper spray you do. something and some parenting classes as well if you're a police officer tell me can you take down an eight year old that pepper spray i think yes yes absolutely all right in my book it's called discipline. it's called discipline that's right gretchen carlson thinks pepper spray an eight year old is good discipline that's very variable. coming up lawmakers in montana are beefing up their dui laws but it might hit one of the state's representatives were hurts his bank account. for.

you don't know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then a glimpse something else and you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you thought you knew you don't i'm sorry is a big fish.