broadcasting rods from our studios in the central moscow this is our to have you with us. well. thirty in the morning on monday poland and russia a moral services one year on from the polish president's plane crash near smolensk was killed president lech kaczynski and ninety five others tragedy which has however brought both countries closer together. nato faces questions over its no fly zone enforcement over libya reports that colonel gadhafi his forces that shot

down to rebel helicopters. also this week a finnish priest is charged with inciting racial hatred and faces expulsion from the church after an interview with our team in which he spoke out against one of the world's most wanted terrorists chechen go. next we investigate the torture techniques used at guantanamo and find out what really goes on at the prison camp in the so-called war on the war on terror a special report coming up right now. tour nelson is featured as a witness in an investigation about the photos apparently he also worked at guantanamo when the request for tougher methods was sent. he agrees to meet with us and explain the methods used there. between one thousand change of scenery out and change of scenery down this is where you take a person out of the environment that are used to and if you put them in

a change of scenery out there you put them in a nicer area change of scenery down mean that you're going to put them into an isolation chamber cold conditions face lab stomach slap if you can hit them enough so that it shocks them especially if it gets a loud slap but you don't actually break any bones cut them bruise them then that's an effective technique because it's the way that they would usually refer to it as the putting is actually placed over their head. and the interrogator. shouts their questions at him through the through the hood or pro longstanding if they would do it for five seconds it wouldn't be too much of other after five ten minutes it really starts to to wear down their physical resistance increased anxiety by use of aversions if they had phobias of heights or. of certain animals you might introduce that to make them uncomfortable you could use these techniques if you got ten people to maybe give you

a little bit of information using these techniques i guarantee you i could get one person to give more information if i was to convince that one person that we're the good guys and that where they're friends. throughout. time that i was there there was pressure from above for results. they weren't worried about are you buying your complexions that wasn't on the daily requests from higher command. requests they were coming down the pipeline or what information he got the cooperation he got which sources have become key sources that's what they were results because their mentality was well under that

we've got that in detention the more people are going to get to break right in just a matter of time to get is just brain. has one tunnel more become a testing ground for interrogation techniques which are then exported to other places. it can't be a coincidence that the same things we see in photos from abu ghraib in iraq are described in documents from guantanamo in cuba. but what is the connection and who exactly sent the requests to use tougher methods . it appears to be the same two star general has had problems with. and if you look at the gate the request was sent october eleventh. only two days after dark is left. and one month later

neither barcus nor the two star general are still at the base. a new man has taken command general miller. the interrogation techniques that we use in j.t. of guantanamo are approved by the senior leadership of our government. shortly after miller took command rumsfeld personally approved the request for tougher interrogation methods he had only one objection to the inquiry requested permission to. forced prisoners to stand in stress position for up to four hours. in the margin rumsfeld himself scribbled i stand eight to ten hours a day why is standing limited to just four hours was it like that when we went back after he was softer. and then down a bit of short pier and then came either who really. sort of.

started the harsher techniques. i believe had no difficulty with pushing from his own office to get more results and that was that was. the side this man wanted everybody to break. and believe that the only right that the people of the tunnel had was the right to give us intelligence it was the only correct word in the business of winning the global war on terrorism we also conduct ourselves as americans always do everything that goes on in camp delta is a representation of what we think makes america great. we decided to call a dog is again this time he was more cooperative. this rick

back you know i called you actually a long time ago i time you didn't want to. talk. i'm not at liberty to give you to the point. there are so many rumors. that i bow to that we don't want to end. things a wrong way so what is the timeline for your story. was in order to speak freely with us permission from the pentagon ok and if they. give you permission to participate will you be available for an interview then i would make myself available correct ok really good. bye. former commander. talk about. this case so you can you basically deny it to even to do i can't tell them what to look for he said it ok.

we approve it in other words we write it and we had by. all right do it i did. why does the pentagon want to silence and darkness. who fired him and why. and who was it that took the interrogation methods from guantanamo cuba to another great. maybe the answer can be found somewhere else. after the scandal now gray when the photos came out command of the prison camp was taken over by none other than general miller. miller was sent to a brit to clean up the mess after the scandal. the person really replaces is general janis karpinski many consider her to be responsible for what went on in the

prison in iraq since she was the commanding officer at the time and it was her soldiers posing in the picture. jedi. kimmie yes that is an echo. pirate care you wouldn't expect to shatter actually. i mean i know the stocks. maybe your area of interest but. you heard about the dispute between baucus and the because of the interrogation techniques. i think that's right back and fired. it takes yet. and see everybody down it got time ok i dare miller they were required to find a formal statement from the government which is called the time disclosure

statement and that means when they leave guantanamo bay they can't just got anything that they see or participated in. i have to meet you. and i live in south carolina which is right on the coast. rumor has it come pinsky is now in an open conflict with the army after being demoted and relieved of her title as a general not for the abuses in the prison she's been found not guilty but because three years ago she said to have shoplifted a perfume bottle she's even said to hate general miller and that she accuses him of the abuses in abu ghraib. well i got this she was chief over the military police and like him she also came in conflict with the interrogation leaders and just like

baucus she was replaced by general miller could she know something about how interrogation methods developed at guantanamo can show up in photos from abu ghraib in iraq it's not a coincidence if the request for more aggressive take me if the memorandum was forwarded after back to slough here's a guy who is trained as a military police officer knows geneva conventions knows crossing the line and knows the limitations and is forced to command the military police detention operations in guantanamo bay that he discovers or maybe in the process of his assignment there they determine the geneva conventions no longer apply down there have you met him i mean there are no i have not and he has been silent. it's almost eerie silence he's been. there and fired first about this and then he fired you why did you talk because i didn't sign

a non-disclosure statement number one and number two i know the truth i don't know all of it obviously but i know the truth and i know i didn't know what was going on in cell block one a and i know that they didn't let me know because they knew i would have screamed about it and i know that the m.p.'s that were there were directed to do what they did you know someone senior to them made them to believe that it was ok. somebody who claimed to be an interrogator from up there he said name the real purpose of those pictures was to make the interrogations easier . we all agree that. we don't feel like we were doing. things that we weren't supposed to because we were told. we think everything was justified because we were instructed to do this to.

serve you know how certain material is carrying any regrets let me. talk to secretary of defense about this just more of like i said find the truth and then tell the iraqi people and the world the truth we are we have nothing to hide and we we we we we believe in transparency because we're free so it is for free societies do. they intend to take any and all actions as may be needed to find out what happened and to see that appropriate steps are taken the investigation went quickly and the only ones prosecuted were the seven soldiers pictured in the photos . and the miller was sent in to clean up after the scandal yes i would like to personally apologize to the people of iraq for the. cording to come pinsky general miller had already been in abu ghraib earlier before the pictures of abuse came out

. he came from guantanamo on a secret mission general no one ever mentioned it was found out later that he actually came on the same plane as secretary of defense rumsfeld he did this in brief with the all of the interrogators and the commander of the military intelligence brigade and general fair and people from her staff that were involved in interrogations and he started out by saying that he was there to assess their operation. to help them get to achieve more actionable intelligence he said i think you're treat the person too well it's gentle with sid you really need to treat them like dogs because if you treat them any better than that you've effectively lost control of the interrogation and before that meeting was over he said. with his with the lessons that they've learned. from guantanamo bay and in other locations

he was going to get moai. this is the report of the general miller and his seventeen experts from left after their visit to our. just one month before the scandal broke out. here you can read his suggestions on how he would like to make the interrogations more effective for example he wanted to use the military police previously were only used as prison guards to prepare the prisoners for interrogation. and here is an overhead found. that no one wants to take responsibility for with the interrogation methods the same developed at guantanamo . and here is miller being questioned by a senator about his visit to abu ghraib before the documents came out. came specifically. these methods could be used in that prison that are contrary to.

the methods contrary to the geneva convention. were presented by the system stream but i took to see j.p.s. . everything started to change. and he has said. as i was only there. if i had been in control of that person and knew what was going on out there it wouldn't have gone out there. even though karpinski and baucus lost control a both kept quiet as the new methods were introduced maybe there are no real heroes in this story only people with more or less control and some people who seem to be outside of any control or regulation. when we read the documents we discover strange little detail.

in the scandal surrounding abu ghraib it's not just soldiers any investigation. and there were also civilians involved in the abuse against prisoners so-called contractors that for some reason were never brought to trial. what exactly is a contractor the man in the red tie is paul bremmer. he was generous karpinski his boss in iraq. the man walking beside him with a machine gun isn't a soldier he's a contractor from blackwater we're talking here about a mercenary we're talking about a hired. gun. and when you have in iraq. a man with a god. who is hired to use that where. you're talking about a soldier without all of the battle there are no rules regulations governing the

use the people. we wanted to get in touch with someone at blackwater who can explain to us it was exactly a contractor giants. irony. trying to reach mr burt success and i want to talk to regarding press issues. and i think. blackwater so many times that we've lost count but they don't seem to want to talk to us. put it appears that the coalition doesn't just use blackwater. the fact is there are over twenty thousand private contractors in iraq they constitute a second largest force after the american army. and hundreds of firms around the world around private contractors. have. one search for just

a romanian security company. who are in bucharest will show us what their services include. me work like a private company in all other countries best and worst. well they decide. right. in the private system of more multi. way because. or over the over the media the system will. have the rules it's not the left not the right. only. what we've got is a situation where we have a thousands of armed left and those in iraq using their weapons without any rules without any rules of engagement any a little behind that there is no role for the. forty

first series was killed in one week not a single story appeared in the paper the coalition needs these people because they want to reduce that casualties. in a sense way using freelance. mercenaries as time tactics to protect not only our soldiers not the casualty figures of the south of the. at one tunnel do you think there were contractors their contractors just started to be used right it towards the end of my tour in one trauma and there was only one or two but i saw one when i left when we're talking about a grade though the percentage goes from maybe five or ten percent of the overall force up to fifty percent of the actual interrogation and analysis force there you

you were a grade as soldier no i don't grade i was a civilian contractor. and a little bit of this when i think of it i'm confident unconventional war think of a conflict for example the one in iraq think of the pockets think back to world war two when you take. people captive to corral to hold the door and most of us to these there's a legal basis for that this is the same principle that is being applied here the only difference is that we are in europe an unconventional war where the world is against a private organization rather than a state and this way think of a. conflict going on conventional war where the world is against me privatization. the state. is getting. into where is no. data does not

mean we care does not belong to responsible. knowledge it was an honest. feeling of an unconventional war the us is against the kind of organization. in essence trick you know many people who don't believe you just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. not can you tell them. the nonsense the question she doesn't believe one if they don't believe the. what do you want to tell those who don't believe in you and your story. i hope other detainees who will be released later they will be able to explain in a stronger way. i mean this thing would have me on a stand why were you there if

. ok basically in the serial killer here we have camps for chance for hoping and in march the beginning of march in the camp for is for detainees who are cooperating in detainees or if their own getting closer to be released very sick. just left. what he plays it is forces we can hear from here ok the voices that you hear are on the voices of detainees and the chants. in and one reason why you can hear him so well is because in the nighttime it's very quiet out here they're not as many vehicles moving so because it's so quiet in the series you can hear the voices of the detainees it looks. like today's. day and their units are eight by eight with

a concert what do they see paul what do they say they have the they have the opportunity to speak to one another so often. you know so i would imagine that you're talking to one another some of them may be praying some of them are just just talking and they may be talking to someone farther down the yelling yelling towards them so just normal conversation noon and sometimes you do hear prayer to call the prayer or just chattering in a prayer for. what happens to the prisoners still counts at guantanamo. and what happens to those who

are released. there have been nearly four hundred subs neither of this is true or a total of it by more than one files and trials additionally some one hundred eighty congressional representatives have visited the facility. arguably no detention facility in the history of warfare has been more transferred or received more than once from. us we've been at guantanamo and we still don't know what really happens inside them. but maybe that's not the most important thing because what we do know is enough. we know that there are still prisoners held inside there was lost to their right to remain silent. and who don't even know if they are ever going to get out.

if one channel which been reported to delta seventy two point matrix for stress and duress please tell types of course should escalate levels being full of harsher heat or cold withholding full quoting for days at a time naked isolation and cold dark cells is that correct. correct at every health care gorge leak in the correct. question is that so much of an oldish musician oh hi. marquesa opening the door to tear the al qaeda franchise has been largely absent from the arab awakening the knowing that get out. the.

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