it's. a very warm welcome back this is a coalition of forces could become more entrenched in libya's new cave pounds the said than military advisers from says it will send in the a zone offices but no ground troops libya's foreign minister is criticizing further moves saying they could prolong the icing on. the world so u.s. backed financial institutions the i.m.f. or the world bank appointed to road blocks on the a comparable with washington's debt spiraling i would say america should solve its own troubles before handing out

and by stop its. idea if he faces a lost generation with one in five young people out of work and few prospects of getting a job in the tough economic climate the countries can't prevent suffering the same faces and olives. coming some revolutionary economic changes about how to do all it can to survive after all it's all of them if years since the us struck down a crippling and all go well it's all of the discussion in cross talk next. story. alone he was welcome to cross talk computor little fifty years after the cia back bay of pigs operation the castro dynasty still dominates abana but has the u.s. hardline stance on cuba had unintended consequences for the revolution is it time

finally did and the embargo has never achieved its original aims. to. discuss u.s. cuban relations or lack of them i'm joined by ray waltzer in washington he's a senior policy analyst at the heritage foundation in berkeley we cross the salt landau he is a senior fellow at and vice chair of the institute for policy studies he's also a filmmaker and his new film is will the real terrorist please stand up and in san francisco we have gloria she is a chord nader of the national committee to free the cuban five all right this is crosstalk that means you can jump any time you want but first let's have a short because short report on recent relations between washington and about. fifty years following the failure of the u.s. back bay of pigs operation to alice for the government and cuba the two nations remain at loggerheads decades of washington impose the cargo have kept the debate

raging some supporters of the sanctions in congress say easing them only the communist regime but others see the embargo as elevated and counterproductive to u.s. interests and to the welfare of the cuban people it has long been agreed that doing business with cuba could rake in large profits for america's business especially the tourism and agricultural sectors according to cuba foundation every year the embargo cost the u.s. economy three point six billion dollars in lost agricultural exports. i mean you could it's believed his worst effects has been on the cubans themselves most of whom earn an average twenty dollars a month and struggle for basic necessities such as food clean water and medicine any injustice any crime and whatever time has no excuse to go on a cruel blockade against the cuban people costs lives cost suffering at the same time there are those who say isolating cuba may very well be helping to demonize washington and justify the very regime then barbara sinks to the road i two

thousand and nine public opinion poll revealed that sixty seven percent of americans favored ending the embargo and recently a us administration appeared to be slowly steering toward a policy shift on president barack obama relaxed travel restrictions and remittances to cuba but still as obama makes the gradual overtures to ease tension it remains unclear whether it will be another decade before the status quo changes my char and i for cross talk our team. ok ray if i can go to you first in washington after five decades more than five decades why don't we just change the policy towards cuba because the original aims of the embargo have just utterly failed there's been no progress whatsoever the castro family is still there what the castro family's been through eleven american presidents if i count right i mean isn't when he would make finally a change is necessary go ahead. first of all there is not a fall in bargo we trade in agricultural commodities wheat some medical sales are

made there there is clearly a steady flow of remittances from cuban americans to cuba there's a fairly active track of visitation no doubt every tourist can visit cuba but there is a certainly a lively exchange so what we have is a partial in bargo that is still there because of the relation the political relationship between the two countries cuba remains a totalitarian communist state there are some in your audience who may have memories of what it was like to live under a totalitarian regime and that basically is the is the roadblock it's not. the american people's dislike of cuba but it is the existence of a communist tarion regime which creates the sort of the gap the one that you have talked about which is existed for something like eleven presidencies ok it's interesting in one go it is to stalin mean in the united states the soviet union

had diplomatic relations and they weren't the best of friends during the cold war i'll repeat my question the beginning of the program it's a failure this whole policy has been a failure and it's a lot of people put it on the shoulders of the administration's of levon it ministrations in washington go ahead sir. play i don't think it's been a total failure i think that the embargo has had a good deal of success in the sense that it's really cut off lots of possibilities that cuba would have had if the embargo hadn't been in place the embargo hasn't succeeded very very well i cause ing suffering in cuba i think mr waltzer is wrong in the sense that he talked about trade there's no trade there is one way sales the united states sells food and certain medicine to cuba cod cuba has no credits and cuba has no ability to sell anything to the united states other than that all companies that do business with cuba banking for example get punished if they have

banks in the united states so the in borgo is still on and it doesn't make any sense if you want to bring down the government but it does make a lot of sense if you want to demoralize the population and that's what the embargo is done and right now cuba's economy is in terrible shape it's in a dysfunctional state in fact if you want to change cuba in other words if you wanted to see overnight a drastic shift in cuba you would lift the embargo and it would change in a week but look here's a question to ask i think what it cuba through to us again i mean china is a single party communist government whose human rights record is arguably far worse than cuba's viet-nam as a single party communist government which has us as its largest trading partner in trade goes both ways and it also has no perfect human rights record so what cuba do to us to deserve fifty plus years of punishment i think that the main reason for

the maintenance of the embargo is that it serves political ends in florida and certain people are making money off of it i can't see any other logical reason for it other than obsession perhaps you could argue obsession but is that if you have no logical. reason other aside for a breaking point we're looking at the same. book go ahead greg i had just crossed are jumping ahead but i was just saying no logical fact other than the fact that we have the same ruling dictatorship that is for fifty two plus years nowadays we have been told that well maybe laws have a ten year additional term so i mean there's no there's no political dynamic that's involved in the ok all right there's a statement going to be civil in a democratic western hemisphere ok i'm going to go to gloria i mean the royal family of saudi arabia has been there for a long time doing and no one calls out an open society call you go ahead. yes first of all i wouldn't actually call it more of a blockade because the u.s.

policy goes beyond just banning trade between two countries the united states think sions corporations around the world as saul landau said punishes banks but except cuban money and from the very first day of the blockade and before the stated intention was to make the cuban people suffer and try to force them to overthrow their government and i think it's time for the american people to realize that we have an obligation to demand that our government stop dictating to other countries speaking of dictatorship there is now a third war going on against libya and i don't think the people of this country voted for that but i've been to cuba many times and seen the suffering that has taken place because of denial of medicine by the united states and you know i've seen medical parts and machinery that has been paralyzed because the u.s.

prevents european countries from selling those parts to cuba and the blockade. machinery and herrick. laurie you know well i'll tell you one there was a key there is a pediatric heart hospital in havana which could not use a blood gas analyzer because apart that the launch of the machine the danish company that was bought up by a u.s. corporation could no longer sell the part so actually my organization collected the money and bought the car from denmark and sent it through to cuba a country can't operate that way and eleven million cuban people have a right to determine and they have determined what kind of society that they will have it's time for the u.s. to stop this criminal blockade ok ray you want to jump in there i mean a lot of people would think go ahead ray go ahead well first of first of all ok first of all most of the medical i mean i'm not totally comfortable with the

medical issue is a very it's a very tense moment but the my understanding is that there's some pretty advanced medical supply houses in europe and in latin america that if they had the foreign exchange if they had a functioning economy they could purchase what they needed on the open market. that's an interesting very technical point about that certain items may be blocked but again this is a country that has relations with the rest of the world its biggest problems are the fact that its economic model simply it's a rusty old engine that want to drive forward and keeps eleven million people basically imprisoned on an island ok i'm going to go back to i will tell people who you know i was going to go to saul and say i mean if how if the box. if it's maintained and how how can people have a normal economy if it's suffering blockade i don't understand that. well it's like trying to breathe with

a heavy boot on your throat i mean that's essentially was what the in part or blockade is the united states has its boot heel right on cuba's economic for zero and that really makes life very difficult for a nation of eleven million people without a basically strategic economy and it won't have a strategic economy unless it locks out and discovers that the oil offshore actually will start flowing but look there's a real point here. what has and i repeat this what has cuba done to the united states other than be disobedient i mean i think you could put for del castro in the guinness book of records for this obedience that's been his great sin otherwise the united states you know say all cuba has political prisoners in fact the united states has more political prisoners in cuba then cuba has in guantanamo which by the way the united states has that base there is over one hundred years because i would say get out the united states say states says to cuba go to hell the united

states is place the embargo on cuba i mean what could cuba do to the united states other than surrender in other words that's i think what the u.s. government is demanding well if you will this i'm going to go on the united states process of democratization it could recognize that the opposition on that island is not mercenaries in the pay of united states it can begin to open up an excuse me i think of truth on that island ok i have to jump in here we have to go to a break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on cuban state with our team. hungry for the full story we've got it first the biggest issues get

a human voice face to face with the news makers on the t.v. . they say this is not a problem in the war. which it should say everybody is sure to support the dream speech so they have no idea about the hardships to face. plate one it says it all comes to the same. for any army the life that you say is the most precious thing in the world. uses of self-sacrifice and heroism of those who understand the feeling that you have to live a. real life stories from world war two. nineteen forty five don't r.t. dot com. can.

welcome across talk i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about cuba and the united states. the topic of. ok gloria just before going to the break things are getting heated up and i noticed you wanted to jump in so i'm going to give you a chance now but i want i want re-install to resolve the issues they started in the first part of the program go ahead gloria. yes well the last united nations general assembly vote was overwhelming and it keeps growing and growing with only three countries voting in favor of the u.s. blockade and over one hundred eighty three voting against it but the u.s. has far more power because of the security council and the pressure that applies to other countries the it's ironic that the blockade is tightening ever more including under the obama administration at

a time when cuba is exporting jocker is helping with hundreds of doctors providing medical care for free in haiti in venice well and many other countries and i think that what the u.s. fears most of all is the example that cuba provides we have. learned that ray excuse me let me finish let me let me finish the board the people of the belgians here everything for it over here and doctors. and we've got less than piers who was reunited with yuri you have to let me finish here being very rude i was in new orleans right after katrina several days when cuba had one thousand one hundred doctors prepared to fly into houston drive to new orleans and provide free health care for the people and we are the ones actually in the united states who are being deprived by this relationship with the u.s. imposing and so uber that we would find out cuba is developing many medicines like a long cancer vaccine and other health that we could also benefit from from having

normalized relations you know if i go to you instead if i get if i go to you ray i mean you know the cold war is over ok now i think in a certain context you could understand that ok cuba is a. proxy for the soviet union ok and we went to the cuban missile crisis and all of that ok through the cold war prism i can i can understand where you're coming from but now i mean what risk and what is threat scale is the you know. the cold war is over and. whether how they kick off their congress with a with a great recollection of the defeat of the the imperialist if you go to go on and sanchez is blog they march down the streets and say we are the we are the men who wear the pants and the imperialist wear the skirts and you know there's still right saying you saying you always go ahead go ahead and i ask you how much i ask you all ok it's a totalitarian yes it's hotel a tarion state how come they let you know and he said she was doing her blog how

come they let all these bloggers to their blog so no matter what he told how interesting and a gracious yeah. they are what they were they are oftentimes so you know every time you know acts of repudiate the day they're in and out in their tolerance they have released political prisoners it's a it's a different regime it's not it's stalin esque it's a bit more readily. but it's a totalitarian it's a totalitarian regime in principle because you have to control the total power in the state no that's a word can't they allow power to cheap words you know half to them and half the demonstrations in the united states end up with the rest as well if you don't have a permit you can't have a demonstration in the united states and even sometimes you have a permit and we've seen so many times where the cops beat the hell out of the students so let's forget this crap i mean really castro had one brilliant idea i learned how to tell a little i was totally out of the let me let me just like ok so all the steps that

are coming out of the clinic out democracy what are we what are we learning about the mechanism let me let me in the future leadership change your ways all saw go ahead some go ahead you want to hear i talk about let's talk about it all go ahead you have the floor of the smaller still here and there a solo half of the floor go ahead so i'll tell you first of all if the united states hadn't been so stupid as to import fidel's opponents they're all in south florida or a they're not in the island he's explored a million people or more who had they stayed on the island would have made everything he tried to do did you have any experience i mean there is you know we haven't. excuse me they accept going to heaven will replace to go to of the united states with him and let me just finish because if you look at what's going on now you have the most frank admission but made by roll castro if you read his speech it's very clear that their model has had serious deficiencies and if you look at

the input that's been made into that model you'll see a different kind of democracy maybe not the kind we have here where once every four years the citizens get to vote for one of two candidates which they had no role in choosing i mean please let's stop this tomorrow you have a system of checks and balances or we need a lorry and you know you've been very patient gentleman gloria please. i'd like to know what is democratic about a billionaire like donald trump running for president and the people having this imposed upon them but regardless of whoever we vote for we have no way of their being accountable for the wars that they create and the fact that we're paying more and more taxes like we did last night you know if we don't have elections every two years we don't know you're a slip. and say no to destroy one party you know every iran iran iran for president last in two thousand and eight and we were not able to access

ballot access for the people to vote for us because it's a locked up again between the democrats republicans and millionaires and billionaires now that's not democracy i want to get back to one point and that is what we should get out here is over that's all you. will see just well i guess he united society was a good line is good so he really did more he was basically under the western hemisphere ok i'd like to invite ok gloria you probably go ahead gloria keep going but i want to talk about yes the impact of this of how cuban policy is made in the united states among the cuban communities the pro and anti castro forces because that is very important in the united states but go ahead first gloria well because the cuban people have except exerciser self-determination the united states has resorted not only to blockade but to us terrorism and over thirty four hundred cubans have been murdered by u.s. sabotage and bombings we've seen the most notorious terrorist luis posada country

less getting off free now he lives in miami even though he's killed seventy three people on a cuban airliner for hiring mercenaries to plant bombs planting bombs in cuban hotels in one thousand nine hundred seven he now walks the streets free of miami and really anticipation for somebody. aleutian like i don't. know you guys are really here let me call it clean war anything else use me. and then age and finite. list wars. all right gloria go ahead finish your thought then what do you think what really gross yes go ahead finish or for even turn off a day or a while since mike allen and five cuban men are in u.s. prison they're called the cuban five they can be found the website they were peacefully trying to stop that terrorism and the u.s. is completely hypocritical and this is

a relic of the regime here when there were long terrorist organization when the big shot there a crappy lazy a human their living baby invading cuban airspace jimmy carter is from cuba and so he is so awful that the noise the release is here in the civilian aircraft that has no weapons on it and you clearly knew what it was excuse me immediately big that's . right because we're going to so now we're going to saul go ahead saul go ahead. ray if it's a cuban plane flew over washington how long you think it would last i don't think it would last thirty seconds ok period no no country in the world allows on a license their credit is their craft it's not permitted to fly over it's capital period that's it well they were they were up to her as it were over almost all there are better than they were still about seven or eight years later the right direction all right let me jump in here

a short water jewel box please i'm going to jump in here is very messy today ok ok i want to talk but i'd like to talk about states get up so i would like to talk i would like to talk about the impact of the cuban community to a divided community community in the unites and i'd like to go to you ray here how much it is that in the in the halls of power in the state department where you have you have to be seen as hard on castro tough on castro and you keep that mindset that we've had for decades that hasn't gone anywhere. well i would first of all of the obama administration is gone forward to engage on everything from. freedom of travel for cuban americans for increased remittances for the good for opening up at least exchange processes the five hundred dollars per quarter remittances to any sort of cuban i mean it is solved senator kerry has put a hold on democracy promotion there is an attempt on the administration and the liberal support but yet in congress i can't see that it's all just three

congressman from southern or one. one senator from new jersey and three congresspeople from south florida that are blocking these beneficial acts of legislation i mean it is a complex game and it all totally is decided in the congress not by the executive nor by talking heads like ourselves it is and clearly sol and gloria represent one line of opinion i tried to express those who are kind of really a little skeptical about ties with cuba even in this day of a of a changing regime and i think i agree with sol that the regime is changing because it simply has run out of gas its leaders are ancient its ideas are antiquated as carlos not in your once said you know communism the something that you experience between you know the end of capitalism and the restarting of calculus and i sort of see we're headed back in that direction ok gloria i can see you want to say something we don't want me to have you give you the last word go ahead yeah well if the american people had the legal right to freely travel to cuba i think they would

find a completely different image and reality that we're not allowed to see and then words and claims by people like ray walser could go on and challenge i would like to also finish without interruption if you go to cuba you will find a society that's remarkably free of the kind of violence that we see in the streets here in the united states e.t.a. a country where people don't have to worry that their kids can go to college because from day one when they're born. college and university is free and that health care is free there are difficulties and problems but they are working to resolve them and i would say that what the most important thing is that we have to understand american people to not support policies of punishing others and we need to be able to travel to cuba we need to have normalized relations between the two countries but we do support already disappeared from the job and there are going to be very serious thank you very much many thanks my guest today in washington

berkeley and in san francisco and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are keith see you next time remember across town. to.

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