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along and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle fifty years after the cia back bay of pigs operation the castro dynasty still dominates a banner but has the u.s. hardline stance on cuba has unintended consequences for the revolution is it time finally to end the embargo that is never achieved its original aims. can. discuss u.s. cuban relations or lack of them i'm joined by ray waltzer in washington he's a senior policy analyst at the heritage foundation in berkeley we cross the salt landau he is a senior fellow at and vice chair of the institute for policy studies he's also a filmmaker and his new film is the real terrorist please stand up and in san francisco we have loria she is a corner of the national committee can free the cuban five all right this is cross talk that means you can jump any time you want but first let's have

a short look at a short report on recent relations between washington and havana. fifty years following the failure of the u.s. back bay of pigs operation to oust fidel castro's government and the two nations remain at loggerheads the gates of washington imposed embargo have kept the debate raging some supporters of the sanctions in congress say easing them only the communist regime but others see the embargo as al a bit and counterproductive to u.s. interests and to the welfare of the cuban people it has long been agreed to do. business with cuba could rake in large profits for america's business especially the tourism and agricultural sectors according to cuba foundation every year the embargo cost the u.s. economy three point six billion dollars in lost agricultural exports but i mean you could exist believe me in darkness worse the fact has been on the cubans themselves most of whom earn an average twenty dollars a month and struggle for basic necessities such as food clean water and medicine

any injustice any crime in what ever time has no excuse to go on the cruel blockade against the cuban people costs lives cost suffering at the same time there are those who say isolating cuba may very well be helping to demonize washington and justify the very regime then why was six to erode a two thousand nine. hundred sixty seven percent of americans favor of ending the embargo and recently the us administration appeared to be slowly steering toward a policy shift when president barack obama relaxed travel restrictions and limitations as to cuba but still as obama makes the gradual overtures to ease tension it remains unclear whether it will be another decade before the status quo changes my china for cross-talk r.t. . ok ray if i can go to you first in washington after five decades more than five decades why don't we just change the policy towards cuba because the original aims of the embargo have just utterly failed there's been no progress

whatsoever the castro family is still there where the castro family's going through eleven american presidents if i count right i mean when do you admit finally a change is necessary go ahead. well first of all there is not a fall in cargo we trade in agricultural commodities wheat some medical sales are made there there is clearly a steady flow of remittances from cuban americans to cuba there's a fairly active track of visitation no doubt every tourist can visit cuba but there's a certain a lively exchange so what we have is a partial embargo that is still there because of the relation the political relationship between the two countries cuba remains a totalitarian communist state there are some in your audience who may have memories of what it was like to live under a totalitarian regime and that basically is the is the roadblock it's not.

the american people's dislike of cuba but it is the existence of a communist regime which creates the sort of the the gap the one that you have talked about which is existed for something like eleven presidencies ok it's interesting language is to stalin mean if united states in the soviet union had diplomatic relations and they weren't the best of friends during the cold war i'll repeat my question the beginning of the program it's a failure this whole policy has been a failure and it's a lot of people put it on the shoulders of the of the administration's eleven administrations in washington go ahead sir. play on think it's been a total failure i think that the embargo has had a good deal of success in the sense that it's really cut off lots of possibilities that cuba would have had if the embargo hadn't been in place the embargo has exits ceded very very well by causing suffering in cuba i think mr walter is wrong in the

sense that he talks about trade there's no trade there is one way sales the united states sells food and certain medicine to cuba c o d cuba has no credits and cuba has no ability to sell anything to the united states other than at all companies that do business with cuba banking for example get punished if they have banks in the united states so the embargo is still on and it doesn't make any sense if you want to bring down the government but it does make a lot of sense if you want to demoralize the population and that's what the embargo is done and right now cuba's economy is in terrible shape it's in a dysfunctional state in fact if you want to change cuba in other words if you want to see overnight a drastic shift in cuba you would lift the embargo and it would change in a week but look here's a question to ask i think what it cuba do to us again i mean china is a single party communist government whose human rights record is arguably far worse

than cuba's viet nam as a single party communist government which has us as its largest trading partner and trade goes both ways and it also has no perfect human rights record so what cuba do to us to deserve fifty plus years of punishment i think that the main reason for the maintenance of the embargo is that it serves political ends in florida and certain people are making money off of it i can't see any other logical reason for it other than obsession perhaps you could argue obsession but is that it was no logical. or is another factor or breaking point we're looking at the same. go go go ahead go ahead this is crossfire jumping right now i was just saying no logical fact other than the fact that we have the same ruling dictatorship that has been there for fifty two plus years nowadays we have been told that well maybe loads have a ten year additional term so i mean there's no there's no political dynamic that's

involved in the ok our other is your state we're going to settle in a democratic western hemisphere ok i'm going to go to gloria i mean the royal family of saudi arabia has been there for a long time too and no one calls that an open society you go ahead. yes first of all i would actually call it more of a blockade because the u.s. policy goes beyond just banning trade between two countries the united states think sions corporations around the world as sol and our said punishes banks that except cuban money and from the very first day of the blockade and before the stated intention was to make the cuban people suffer and try to force them to overthrow their government and i think it's time for the american people to realize that we have an obligation to demand that our government stop dictating to other countries speaking of dictatorship there is now a third war going on against libya and i don't think the people of this country

voted for that but i've been to cuba many times and seen the suffering that has taken place because of denial of medicine by the united states and you know i've seen medical parts and machinery that has been paralyzed because the u.s. prevents european countries from selling those parts to cuba the block which requires a machinery of terror. you know well i'll tell you one there was a peak there is a pediatric heart hospital in havana which could not use a blood gas analyzer because apart that the launch of the machine the cane ish company that was bought up by a us corporation could no longer sell the park so actually my organization collected the money and bought a car from denmark and sent it through to cuba but a country can operate that way and eleven million cuban people have

a right to determine and they have determined what kind of society that they will have it's time for the u.s. to start this criminal blockade ok you want to jump in there i mean a lot of people who think go ahead ray go ahead well first of first of all ok first of all most of the medical i mean i'm not totally comfortable with the with medical issues is very it's a very tense one but the my understanding is that there's some pretty advanced medical supply houses in europe and in latin america that there if they had the foreign exchange if they had a functioning economy they could purchase what they needed on the open market. that's an interesting very technical point about that certain items may be blocked but again this is a country that has relations with the rest of the world and its biggest problems are the fact that its economic model simply it's a rusty old engine that won't drive forward and keeps eleven million people basically imprisoned on an island ok if i'm going to go back to tell people you

know i was going to go to sol and say i mean if how if the market is. if it's maintained and how how can i have a normal economy if it's suffering blockade i don't understand that. well that's like trying to breathe with a heavy boot on your throat i mean that's essentially was what the embargo or blockade is the united states has its boot heel right on cuba's economic for oak and that really makes life very difficult for a nation of eleven million people without a basically strategic economy and it won't have a strategic economy unless it locks out and discovers that the oil offshore actually will start flowing but look there's a real point here. what is right and i repeat this what has cuba done to the united states other than be disobedient i mean i think you could put fidel castro in the guinness book of records for disobedience that's been his great sin otherwise the

united states you know say all cuba has political prisoners in fact the united states has more political prisoners in cuba then cuba has in guantanamo which by the way the united states has that base there is over one hundred years the cuban say get out the united states say states says to cuba go to hell the united states has placed the embargo on cuba i mean what could cuba do to the united states other than surrender in other words that's i think what the u.s. government is demanding well if you will this and i'm going to go in the united states process of democratization it could recognize that the opposition leaders on that island is not which is a minute mercenaries in the pay of the united states it can begin to open up an excuse me i think of truth on that island ok i have to jump in here we have to go to a break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on cuban state with r.t. . we

have seen the damage it has done to our environment mark chemicals with the bar props we do not want anymore a new deal molds. our core system is to say there was a cause more experience and i'm just i'm just appalled that that's allowed to go on americans. are getting this unfortunately because we don't know what's in it there's no labeling there for it being used like the board to

experiment with is getting. old now we have more questions than we have had three cards. like. download the official and see how flick ation your home phone on called touch from the i choose option. which all teachers life on the go. video on demand all keys money fuel costs and all residents feeds now in the palm of your. question on the call wealthy british sign a sign. sometimes the title. market

finance scandal why not what's really happening to the global economy with mike's conjure for a no holds barred look at the global financial headline. there's a report on r t. v. well the cost of capital to remind you we're talking about cuba in the united states. q. ok gloria just before i went to break things were getting heated up and i noticed you wanted to jump in so i'm going to give you a chance now but i want i want re-install to resolve these issues they started in the first part of the program go ahead gloria. yes well the last united nations

general assembly vote was overwhelming and it keeps growing and growing with only three countries voting in favor of the u.s. blockade and over one hundred eighty three voting against it but the u.s. has far more power because of the security council and the pressure that applies to other countries the it's ironic that the blockade is tightening ever more including under the obama administration at a time when cuba is exporting jock toure's helping with hundreds of doctors providing medical care for free in haiti in venice well and many other countries and i think that what the u.s. fears most of all is the example that cuba provide. excuse me let me finish let me let me be clear board the people of the belgians are very sacred here and doctors. and we've got less than peers who are trying to become europe you have to let me finish here being very rude i was in new orleans

right after katrina for several days when cuba had one thousand one hundred gawkers prepared to fly into houston drive to new orleans and provide free health care for the people and we are the ones actually in the united states who are being deprived by this relationship with the u.s. imposes against cuba that we would find out cuba is developing many medicines like a lung cancer vaccine and other health that we could also benefit from from having normalized relations you know if i go to you instead if i get if i go to you ray i mean you know the cold war is over ok now i think in a certain context you could understand ok cuba is. a proxy for the soviet union ok and we went to the cuban missile crisis and all of that ok through the cold war prism i can i can understand where you're coming from but now i mean what risk what is threat does killers of you know. the cold war is over and. whether how they

kick off their congress with a with a great recollection of the defeat of the imperialist if you go to go on the sanchez is blog they march down the streets and say we are the we are the men who wear the pants and the imperialist wear the skirts and you know there is still so much saying you saying you always go ahead go ahead and i ask you i ask you all if it is a totalitarian yes this hotel experienced a how can they let you want he said answers to her blog how come they let all these bloggers do their blood supply all the women are always told how dare you say racial yeah. yeah well they were they are oftentimes still you know every time you know acts of reputed day they're in and out in their tolerance they have released political prisoners it's a it's a different regime it's not it's stalin esque it's a bit more manly is it but it's a totalitarian it's a totalitarian regime in principle because you have they control the total power in the state know that the word care if they allow power that's

a cheap word you know half the demo half the demonstrations in the united states end up with the rest as well if you don't have a primate you can't have a demonstration in the united states and even sometimes with a permit and we've seen so many times when the cops beat the hell out of the students so let's forget this crap i mean really castro had one brilliant idea i will tell a little and it was totally out of the meat let me just like ok all of the steps that are coming out of the clinic out democracy what are we what are we learning about the mechanism let me let me in the future leadership you are you guys are all talking head song go ahead you want to hear us talk about let's talk about oh no you have to follow a smaller scale one there are slow to ask the floor go ahead saul i'll tell you first of all if the united states hadn't been so stupid as to import fidel's opponents they're all in south florida or a they're not on the island he's exported a million people or more who had they stayed on the island would have made

everything he tried to do is just where they assimilate and i mean he's already you know we haven't. excuse me they excite you like they have been when they are placed to go through with the united states whenever let me just finish because if you look at what's going on now i think you have the most frank admission but made by raul castro if you read his speech it's very clear that their model has had serious deficiencies and if you look at the input that's been made into that model you'll see a different kind of democracy maybe not the kind we have here where once every four years the citizens get to vote for one of two candidates which they had no role in choosing i mean please let's stop this kamali of a system of checks and balances or we need a glorious you know usually very patient gentleman gloria please. i'd like to know what is democratic about a billionaire like donald trump running for president and the people having this

imposed upon them but regardless of whoever we vote for we have no way of their being accountable for the wars that they create and the fact that we're paying more and more taxes like we did last night you know if we don't have elections every two years we didn't. know it was released and seen at least for a one party you know iran iran iran i ran for president last in two thousand and eight and we were not able to access the ballot access for the people to vote for us because it's a locked up game between the democrats republicans and millionaires and billionaires now that's not democracy but i want to get back to one point and that is that i heard the i'm sorry about the low you know you'll see well i guess i was a united can i say here really more he was basically on the in the western hemisphere ok i'd like to i'd like to ok gloria you probably go ahead gloria keep going but i want to talk about yes the impact of this of how cuban policy is made

in the united states among the cuban communities the pro and anti castro forces because that is very important in the united states but go ahead first gloria well because the cuban people have excess exercise their self-determination the united states has resorted not only to blockade but to us terrorism and over thirty four hundred cubans have been murdered by us sabotage and bombings we've seen the most notorious terrorist luis posada country less getting off free now he lives in miami even though he's killed seventy three people on a cuban airliner for hiring mercenaries to plant bombs planting bombs in cuban hotels in one thousand nine hundred seven he now walks the streets free of miami helio decisions for security. lucia because i don't. know you guys are really here let me call the clean war in ethiopia is me they let me sleep in is shoot them a million aged and find out here i've been to imperialist wars. all right gloria go

ahead finish your thought that what are you going broke yes go ahead finish your for even turned off a day well since mike allen and five cuban men are in u.s. prison they're called a cuban five a can be found a website they were peacefully trying to stop that terrorism and the u.s. is completely hypocritical and this is the rebels the reindeer when there were terrorist organization when the big shot their airplanes basic human their little baby invading cuban airspace i mean a car is just came from cuba hold out for the release of your cuban civilian aircraft that has no weapons upon it and you clearly knew what it was excuse me immediately that's. because we're going to go to so now we're going to salt go ahead salt go ahead. ray if they're for

a cuban plane flew over washington how long you think it would last i don't think it would last thirty seconds ok period no no country in the world allows on a license their credit is aircraft not permitted to fly over it's capital it's period that's it well they were they were after her as if it weren't for almost all in their parent of a that they were still about seven or eight miles out if she is a writer a jew or freedom of religion to be here if it was original books please i'm going to jump in here is very messy today ok ok i want you to talk about i would like to talk about states give up so i would like to i would like to talk about the impact of the the cuban community to divide the community community in the united and i could go to you right here how much is it in the in the halls of power in the state department where you have you have to be seen as hard on castro tough on castro and he keeping that mindset that we've had for decades that hasn't gone anywhere. well i first of all of the obama administration is gone forward to engage on everything

from. freedom of travel for cuban americans for increased remittances for the good for opening up at least exchange processes the five hundred dollars per quarter remittances to any sort of cuban i mean it is solved senator kerry has put a hold on democracy promotion there is an attempt on the administration and the liberal support but yet in congress i can't see that it's all just three congressman from southern or one. one hundred from new jersey and three congresspeople from south florida that are blocking these beneficial acts of legislation i mean it is a complex game and it all totally is decided in the congress not by the executive nor by talking heads like ourselves it is and clearly sol and gloria represent one line of opinion i try to express those who are kind of really a little skeptical about ties with cuba even in this day of a of a changing regime and i think i agree with sol that the regime is changing because

it simply has run out of gas its leaders are ancient its ideas are antiquated as carlos mountaineer once said you know communism is something to experience between two you know the end of capitalism and the restarting of capitalism i sort of see we're headed back in that direction ok gloria i can see you want to say something we don't want to meet and we'll give you the last word go ahead yeah well if the american people had a legal right to freely travel to cuba i think they would find a completely different image and reality that we're not allowed to see and then words and claims by people like ray walser could go on and challenge i would like to also finish without interruption if you go to cuba you will find a society it's remarkably free of the kind of violence that we see in the streets here in the united states heathy a country where people don't have to worry that their kids can go to college because from day one when they're born. college and university is free and that health care is free there are difficulties and problems but they are working to

resolve them and i would say that what the most important thing is that we have to understand american people do not support policies of punishing others and we need to be able to travel to cuba we need to have normalized relations between the two countries but we do support our ages and we have a job and there are going to be very serious thank you very much many thanks my guest today in washington berkeley and in san francisco of a story viewers for watching us here are keith peel next time remember across time from. c. c.

c. c c. c . me busy busy busy. busy pct.