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listen. today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world seeing from the streets of chatter that. corporations are. along with welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle fifty years after the cia back bay of pigs operation the castro dynasty still dominates havana but has the u.s. hardline stance on cuba had unintended consequences for the revolution is it time

finally getting the embargo has never achieved its original aims. to. discuss u.s. cuban relations or lack of them i'm joined by ray waltzer in washington he's a senior policy analyst at the heritage foundation in berkeley we cross the salt landau he is a senior fellow at and vice chair of the institute for policy studies he's also a filmmaker and his new film is will the real terrorist please stand up and in san francisco we have gloria she is a corner of the national committee to free the cuban five all right this is cross talk that means you can jump anytime you want but first let's have a short short report on recent relations between washington and about. fifty years following the failure of the u.s. back bay of pigs operation to alice for dell custer's government and here but the two nations remain at loggerheads the decades of washington imposed the cargo have

kept the debate raging some supporters of the sanctions in congress say easing them only the communist regime but others see the embargo as elevated and counterproductive to u.s. interests and to the welfare of the cuban people it has long been agreed that doing business with cuba could rake in large profits for america's business especially the tourism and agricultural sectors according to cuba foundation every year the embargo cost the u.s. economy three point six billion dollars in lost agricultural exports. when you could it's believed in burgas worst effects has been on the cubans themselves most of whom earn an average twenty dollars a month and struggle for basic necessities such as for clean water and medicine any injustice any crime and whatever time has no excuse to go on the cruel blockade against the cuban people costs lives coast suffering at the same time there are those who say isolating cuba may very well be helping to demonize washington and

justify the very regime they marvel seeks to erode a two thousand and nine public opinion poll revealed that sixty seven percent of americans favored ending the embargo and recently u.s. administration appeared to be slowly steering toward a policy shift on president barack obama relaxed travel restrictions and limitations as to cuba but still as obama makes the gradual overtures to ease tension it remains unclear whether it will be another decade before the status quo changes my chardonnay for cross-talk our team. ok ray if i can go to you first in washington after five decades more than five decades why don't we just change the policy towards cuba because the original aims of the embargo have just utterly failed there's been no progress whatsoever the castro family is still there what the castro family is going through a living american presidents if i count right i mean isn't it when you admit finally a change is necessary go ahead. well first of all there is not

a full embargo we trade in agricultural commodities wheat some medical sales are made there there is clearly a steady flow of remittances from cuban americans to cuba there's a fairly active track of visitation though not every tourist can visit cuba but there is a certainly a lively exchange so what we have is a partial in bargo that is still there because of the relation the political relationship between the two countries cuba remains a totalitarian communist state there are some in your audience who may have memories of what it was like to live under a totalitarian regime and that basically is the is the roadblock it's not. the american people's dislike of cuba but it is the existence of a communist regime which creates the sort of the gap the one that you had talked about which is existed for something like eleven presidencies ok it's interesting

in one go to stalin mean if united states of the soviet union had diplomatic relations and they weren't the best of friends during the cold war i'll repeat my question the beginning of the program it's a failure of this whole policy has been a failure and it's a lot of people put it on the shoulders of the administration's eleven it ministrations in washington go ahead sir. play on think it's been a total failure i think that the embargo has had a good deal of success in the sense that it's really cut off the lots of possibilities that cuba would have had if the embargo hadn't been in place the embargo has exceeded very very well causing suffering in cuba i think mr walzer is wrong in the sense that he talked about trade there is no trade there is one way sales the united states sells food and certain medicine to cuba c o d cuba has no credits and cuba has no ability to sell anything to the united states other than

that all companies that do business with cuba banking for example get punished if they have banks in the united states so the in borgo is still on and it doesn't make any sense if you want to bring down the government but it does make a lot of sense if you want to demoralize the population and that's what the embargo is done and right now cuba's economy is in terrible shape it's in a dysfunctional state in fact if you want to change cuba in other words if you wanted to see overnight a drastic shift in cuba you would lift the embargo and it would change in a week but look here's a question to ask i think what it cuba do to us again i mean china is a single party communist government whose human rights record is arguably far worse than cuba's viet nam as a single party communist government which has us as its largest trading partner and trade goes both ways and it also has no perfect human rights record so what cuba do

to us to deserve fifty plus years of punishment i think that the main reason for the maintenance of the embargo is that it serves political ends in florida and certain people are making money off of it i can't see any other logical reason for it other than obsession perhaps you could argue obsession but is that if you have no logical. reason other in fact making probably you're looking at the same. book go ahead greg i had just crossed are jumping right now i was just saying no logical fact other than the fact that we have the same ruling dictatorship that is for fifty two plus years nowadays we have been told it well maybe loads have a ten year additional term so i mean there's no there's no political dynamic that's involved are there's no state we're going to be civil in a democratic western hemisphere ok i'm going to go to gloria i mean the royal family of saudi arabia has been there for a long time to do and no one calls out an open society corey go ahead. yes first of

all i would actually call it more of a blockade because the u.s. policy goes beyond just banning trade between two countries the united states think sions corporations around the world as sol and our said punishes banks that except cuban money and from the very first day of the blockade and before the stated intention was to make the cuban people suffer and try to force them to overthrow their government and i think it's time for the american people to realize that we have an obligation to demand that our government stop dictating to other countries speaking of dictatorship there's now a third war going on against libya and i don't think the people of this country voted for that but i've been to cuba many times and seen the suffering that has taken place because of denial of medicine by the united states and you know i've

seen medical parts and machinery that has been paralyzed because the u.s. prevents european countries from selling those parts to cuba the the block. machinery and herrick. laurie well i'll tell you one there is a pete there is a pediatric heart hospital in havana which could not use a blood gas analyzer because apart that the launch of the machine the danish company that was bought up by a us corporation could no longer sell the part so actually my organization collected the money bought a car from denmark and sent it through to cuba a country can't operate that way and eleven million cuban people have a right to determine and they have determined what kind of society that they will have it's time for the u.s. to stop this criminal blockade ok ray you want to jump in there i mean a lot of people would think go ahead ray go ahead well first of first of all ok

first of all most of the medical i mean i'm not totally comfortable with the medical issue is a very it's a very tense one but the my understanding is that there's some pretty advanced medical supply houses in europe. and latin america that if they had the foreign exchange if they had a functioning economy they could purchase what they needed on the open market. that's an interesting very technical point about that certain items may be blocked but again this is a country that has relations with the rest of the world its biggest problems are the fact that its economic model simply it's a rusty old engine that won't drive forward and keeps eleven million people basically imprisoned on an island ok if i'm going to go back through i will tell people who you know i was going to go to sol and say i mean if how if the bar kate is. if it's maintained and how how can people have a normal economy if it's suffering blockade i don't understand that. well that's

like trying to breathe with a heavy boot on your throat i mean that's essentially what what the empire go blockade is the united states has its boot heel right on cuba's economic for zero and that really makes life very difficult for a nation of eleven million people without a basically strategic economy and it won't have a strategic economy unless it locks out and discovers that the oil offshore actually will start flowing but look there's a real point here. what is and i repeat this what has cuba done to the united states other than be disobedient i mean i think you could put fidel castro in the guinness book of records for disobedience that's been his great sin otherwise the united states you know say all cuba has political prisoners in fact the united states has more political prisoners in cuba then cuba has in guantanamo which by the way the united states has that base there is over one hundred years the cuban

say get out the united states say the state says to cuba go to hell the united states has placed the embargo on cuba i mean what could cuba do to the united states other than surrender in other words that's i think what the u.s. government is demanding well if you will this i'm going to go in the united states process of democratization it could recognize that the opposition on that island is not that well wishers i mean it mercenaries in the pay of the united states it can begin to open up an excuse me i think of truth on that island ok i have to jump in here we have to go to a break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on cuban state with our team.

download the official tea allocation chobani phone the i pod touch from the saps to . life on the go. video on demand on t.v.'s mine comes and says feeds now in the palm of your. questions on the com. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from around the world.

we've got the future covered. wealthy british scientists. are not. the market. to. find out what's really happening to the global economy with max keiser for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to the report he. can still. welcome back to cross talk i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about cuba and the united states. you can see.

ok gloria just before winter break things are getting heated up and i noticed you wanted to jump in so i'm going to give you that chance now but i want i want re-install to resolve the issues they started in the first part of the program go ahead gloria. yes well the last united nations general assembly vote was overwhelming and it keeps growing and growing with only three countries voting in favor of the u.s. blockade and over one hundred eighty three voting against it but the u.s. has far more power because of the security council and the pressure that it applies to other countries the it's ironic that the blockade is tightening ever more including under the obama administration out of time when cuba is exporting jock toure's helping with hundreds of doctors providing medical care for free in haiti in venice well and many other countries and i think that what the u.s. fears most of all is the example that cuba provides it's not we have much of

a soldier but i learned that there are a excuse me let me finish let me let me go to the border people of the belgians here is really a bridge over here and doctors. and we've got less he enters who tryna ury you have to let me finish here being very rude i was in new orleans right after katrina several days when cuba had one thousand one hundred characters prepared to fly into houston drive to new orleans and provide free health care for the people and we are the ones actually in the united states who are being deprived by this relationship with the us imposes against cuba that we would find out cuba is developing many medicines like a lung cancer vaccine and other health that we could also benefit from from having normalized relations you know ray it can i if i go to you instead if i get if i go to you ray i mean you know the cold war is over ok now i think in a certain context you could understand the ok cuba is

a. proxy for the soviet union ok and we went to the cuban missile crisis and all of that ok with the cold war prism i can i can understand where you're coming from but now i mean what risk and what is threat does kill is the only way the cold war is over and. whether how they kick off their congress with it with a great recollection of the defeat of the the imperialist if you go to go on the sanchez is blog they march down the streets and say we are the we are the men who wear the pants and the imperialist wear the skirts and you know there is you know so let's saying you saying you're always going ok and i ask you right so i ask you all of it is a totalitarian yes or this hotel or terry and state how come they let you know and he said as to her blog how come they let all these bloggers who their blood soaked my older women are always told how dare you say racial yeah. yeah like they were they are often times so you know every time you know acts of refugio day they're in

and out in their tolerance they have released political prisoners it's a it's a different regime it's not easy stalin esque it's a bit more manly as this but it's a totalitarian it's a tell you i mean you're a regime in principle because you have any control the total power in the state no that's a word that's a allow power that's a cheap word you know half the democrats half the demonstrations in the united states end up with the rest as well if you don't have a primate you can't have a demonstration in the united states and even sometimes with a permit and we've seen so many times when the cops beat the hell out of the students so let's forget this crap i mean really the castro had one brilliant idea i would play a little and it was totally out of the i mean let me just like ok all of the steps that are coming out of the clearing out democracy what are we what are we learning about the mechanism let me let me in the future leadership change your way so i'll go ahead some go ahead do you want to hear i talk about let's talk about go ahead

you have to follow the smaller absolutely sure and there are a solo here i asked the floor go ahead saul i'll tell you first of all if the united states hadn't been so stupid as to import fidel's opponents they're all in south florida or a they're not in the island he's exported a million people or more who had they stayed on the island would have made everything he tried to do. and i mean he's already you know he's got an. excuse me they except going to have an easier place to go to of the united states wait a minute let me just finish because if you look at what's going on now think you have the most frank admission but made by roll castro if you read his speech it's very clear that their model has had serious deficiencies and if you look at the in forth that's been made into that model you will see a different kind of democracy maybe not the kind we have here were once every four years the citizens get to vote for one of two candidates which they had no role in

choosing i mean please let's stop this the mother of a system of checks and balances or we need lori and you know you've been very patient gentleman gloria please. i'd like to know what is democratic about a billionaire like donald trump running for president and the people having this imposed upon them but regardless of who ever we vote for we have no way of their being accountable for the wars that they create and the fact that we're paying more and more taxes like we did last night you know if we don't have elections every two years we did. in an hour and seem to destroy one party you know iran iran iran iran for president blast two thousand and eight and we were not able to access ballot access for the people to vote for us because it's a locked up game between the democrats republicans and millionaires and billionaires now that's not democracy but i want to get back to one point and that

is what you should do there is a way that some people out there know you know you will see well i guess i was a united surprise you haven't taken i missed it so here really more of it is they are younger and the western hemisphere ok i'd like to i'd like to ok gloria you probably go ahead gloria keep going but i want to talk about yes the impact of this of how cuban policy is made in the united states among the cuban communities the pro and anti castro forces because that is very important in the united states by going first gloria well because the cuban people have excess exercise their self-determination the united states has resorted not only to blockade but to us terrorism and over thirty four hundred cubans have been murdered by u.s. sabotage and bombings we've seen the most notorious terrorist luis posada country less getting off free now he lives in miami even though he's killed seventy three people on a cuban airliner for hiring mercenaries to plant bombs planting bombs in cuban

hotels in one thousand nine hundred seven he now walks the streets free of miami easily and the solution is for somebody. like i don't. know your entire career let me start a clean war in ethiopia is me they let me sleep in it and shoot them in aged and finite. and anti imperialist wars. all right gloria go ahead finish your thought that what are you going to be. yes go ahead finish your edith turned off a day well since mike al and five cuban men are in u.s. prison they're called the cuban five they can be found a website they were peacefully trying to stop that terrorism and the u.s. is completely hypocritical and this is the run up to the reindeer where there were a dozen cherice organization when the big shot there airplane basic human error to baby invading human airspace jimmy carter is just came from cuba so he has some

sort out other for the release if you're here in the civilian aircraft it has no weapons upon it and you clearly knew what it was excuse me immediately that's. right already we're going to go to so now we're going to saw go ahead so go ahead. ray a free for cuban plane flew over washington how long you think it would last i don't think it would last thirty seconds ok period no no country in the world allows on a licensed aircraft that is aircraft not permitted to fly over its capital period that's it well they were they were after her as it were over almost all in there at the end of that they were still about seven or eight miles out to sea as a writer and you know say going to judge me here if you're watching this jewel box please i'm to jump in here is very messy today ok ok i'm going to talk but i'd like to talk about it's going up so i would like to talk i would like to talk about the impact of the the cuban community that you divided community community in the

united and i could go to you right here how much it is that in the in the halls of power in the state department where you have you have to be seen as hard on castro tough on castro and he keeping that mindset that we've had for decades that hasn't gone anywhere. well i did first of all of the obama administration is gone forward to engage on everything from. freedom of travel for cuban americans for increased remittances for the good for opening up at least exchange processes the five hundred dollars per quarter remittances to any sort of cuban i mean it is senator kerry has put a hold on democracy promotion there is an attempt on the administration and the liberal support but yet in congress i can't see that it's all just three congressman from southern or one. one senator from new jersey and three congresspeople from south florida that are blocking these beneficial acts of legislation i mean it is a complex game and it all totally is decided in the congress not by the executive

nor by talking heads like ourselves it is and clearly sol and gloria represent one line of opinion i try to express those who are kind of really a little skeptical about ties with cuba even in this day of a of a changing regime and i think i agree with sol that the regime is changing because it simply has run out of gas its leaders are its ideas are antiquated is carlos month in year one said you know communism the something that you experience between you know the end of capitalism and the restarting of capitalism i sort of see we're headed back in that direction ok gloria i can see you want to say something we got one minute we'll give you the last word go ahead yeah what if the american people had a legal right to freely travel to cuba i think they would find a completely different image and reality that we're not allowed to see and then words and claims by people like ray walser could go on and challenge i would light

house of pain issue without interruption if you go to cuba you will find a society it's remarkably free of the kind of violence that we see in the streets here and in the united states you see a country where people don't have to worry that their kids can go to college because from day one when they're born. college and university is free and that health care is free there are difficulties and problems but they are working to resolve them and i would say that what the most important thing is that we have to understand the american people do not support policies of punishing others and we need to be able to travel to cuba we need to have normalized relations between the two countries but we do support or it isn't one hundred jobs and this is going to be very serious thank you very much many thanks my guest today in washington berkeley and in san francisco and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are keep see you next time remember rastafarians. keep.

i tell marvin here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from around the world. we've got the huge earth covered.

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