stressful thing it's upsetting they think they're not going to be compensated they think their government thinks they're terrorists and look at least letters haven't gone out yet they're going out will read them carefully will make sure we understand them but i can give an example of the left and not getting the right and the answers i just recently got my certification which means homeland security did a six month investigation on me and they know where i am but they're not telling the rest of governor who i am because i'm going to be one of the recipients of these stupid letters that was general director of political affairs for the feel good foundation and a nine eleven first responder that's what i go for now for more on the stories we covered at r.t. dot com slash usa i'm lauren lister have a great weekend. assures that so much given to you because it is a line from the mark we were told to go off you must go with the royal family of the rainbow state is this a double standard is freedom allowed for some well. the official

cation your body for the ipod touch from the tops to. life on the good. video on demand. the world comes and the russians feeds now in the palm of your. question on the call to come. ok tom arriving here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

taking. a low and welcome to crossfire i'm peter lavelle we're told libya's gadhafi must go but the royal family of bahrain must stay is this a double standard is freedom allowed for some well others are not worthy of the same and will the west later regret its differing approaches to the arab awakening . in. the process of different reactions towards the arab awakening i'm joined by hussein

in pensacola he's the director of americans for democracy and human rights in bahrain in san francisco we crossed the stevens this he's a professor of politics and international studies at the university of san francisco and in new york we have matthew shaffer he is a writer for the national review online all right gentlemen this is crosstalk i mean you can jump in anytime you want to before we start our discussion here let's take a look at some of the issues in reactions to the arab awakening. what is this state democracy all security interests revolutionaries sandstones have brought to the streets across the arab world. the west somebody cater as in egypt and tunisia meanwhile in predominantly. rule. by sunni minority people have been so usually silenced and the celtic truth intervenes some point zero of this double standard home to the us thieves fleet and so does neighbor grain striving towards

other domination peers and acceptable as a counter to the interests of the west while in libya democracy is seen as a priority and that by nato military efforts and the u.n. mandate under the un we have an obligation to protect civilians from potential atrocities and we have succeeded if that doesn't western news through intervention in defiance of the rebels many of us big only double standard democratic rights of citizens and for greater political threat and i support it in countries like egypt tunisia and libya but serious secondary in back rain or yemen where western military and security interests are at stake syria is just in the other example not immune to the revolution or we can once through since been seen or it crosses a country and the u.s. state department is there

a clique to condemn the violence as arab awakening can see is what the whole swathe national interest all the lives of people themselves that is just crossed all artsy . ok stephen and i forgot to you first hear mr obama the u.s. president said that the united states is going to intervene or some form of intervention into libya because of the need to protect civilians and he said it innocent people were targeted for killing hospitals and ambulances regular journalists were arrested and today is the day we're doing a program here independent wrote about bahrain one doctor in intensive care specialist i asked was held after she thought. weeping over a dead protester and another arrested in the theater room while an operation on an operation on a patient was going on i mean i seems like that's a very blatant double standard there and it's only going to get worse so if i start

out by asking well we're going to regret our different reactions to what is fundamentally the same phenomenon. i think very much so the united states has a clear double standard when it comes to human rights abuses by autocratic regimes we don't like autocratic regimes that are considered allies we seem to be willing to give them a free pass the repression in bahrain has increased over the. past couple of months it is becoming increasingly brutal police state and yet the united states stands by the monarchy the united states has refused to condemn the intervention by the neighboring family dictatorships to suppress what is at least as a legitimate a pro-democracy movement as you've seen in other arab states matthew what you think about that in new york. i think that we've heard the phrase double standard thrown around i think that what we're actually seeing is

a relatively consistent set of standards applied to wildly differing circumstances in libya there was an urgent call to action the arab league asked us to intervene. forces were moving towards benghazi and more market off a promise to raise the city and killed citizens in bahrain there are these abuses in their tragic and there are four and they're evil there's not something that we can do we can stop a motorcade from going to particular city because these forces are in the same city they're both the manana. so there's just not the same urgent call for a response because when you think about that i mean there are different enough to have different reactions because fundamentally is the message of the united states supposedly supports democracy the right to protest and all other things that we would consider normal in a in a civil society you see that the reactions are different and they are a double standard. that is a clear that will stand i think the u.s.

policy toward iran is shortsighted that it's going to fire back on the united states and it's going to hurt the american interest in the region because basically it's going to radicalize the pro-democracy movement in the country because the people in bahrain think there's a green light from the united states to saudi arabia and the government of bahrain to crack down on peaceful protesters you know you cannot support peaceful protesters in libya or egypt or any other places and then just stand up blind blind eye toward the legitimate grievances and the frame i think is going to basically turn the people away from the legitimate causes and maybe radicalize them and that will hurt the american interest and you know stephen if i go back here i think it's really interesting that we look at the arab awakening starting in tunisia going all the way to today and my read of it is you know i don't see a fundamental american islam element in it. where you see people striving for the

right things i think we were on this program would agree for agree to but. the more the different reactions are so stark don't you think the region's going to saying i'm looking at the younger generation saying ah it's just the west looking to find very new man in these new countries that have thrown off all dictators that were friends of the west. well said it's unfortunate because the united states has been quite fortunate for the very reason you mentioned that there has not been a strong anti american orientation of these pro-democracy movements at least so far as long as the united states is seen to support the bahraini regime it's really going to hurt us now i don't think anybody is advocating military intervention in bahrain and i'm ambivalent about the military intervention in libya but the least we can call for more forcefully for an inner the repression we can sever.

our strategic ties so to that autocratic regime overly stretton to weaken in the security assistance to that regime we can make it very clear that that kind of repression is illegitimate we really need to be on the right side of history here in history is moving more and more towards democracy and as long as the united states is seen to be on the wrong side really strong side in some cases is going to really hurt our image and is going to encourage more extremist elements that may not be that interested in democracy you know imagine if i'm going to use saudi arabia on the right side of history. no certainly not. but just because somebody is wrong that it's a minute that's not something that we can do to make them perfect again so i mean talking about for example you talked about how the protesters haven't sort of shown

a strong anti-american element of course they haven't shown it i mean they they want american intervention they want american help there could be anti-american elements we haven't identified yet but more importantly first of all the u.s. has strongly call for an end to the violence and to human rights abuses president obama has been totally clear about that but in terms of going farther than that you know we have the fifth fleet station in bahrain saudi arabia is very powerful america's military is already stretched some of our geo political relations are already strained i don't think there's anything we can feasibly do to oust the khalifi is what they are sods. that is actually within our power right now so condemn them to intervene in libya to send a message but we can't go much further than that ok hussein i mean our security is always brought up in these discussions here and looking at the right side of history you give it give it you give me your prognosis i mean if the crackdown continues continues in bahrain and it's seventy percent of the population that is they treated as a second class citizen here the longer this goes on them how much more

disillusioned are they going to become and i'm talking about these oppressed people with the western quickly with united states and given the scheme of history and we never know how these things are turned out i think we've all learned out of the last few months just how safe are the fifth fleet be there if the things turned radically against the royal family will be the fifth fleet still be welcome there. the u.s. administration not even listening to their own congress there are several members of congress yesterday issued statements and letters to the obama administration to immediately intervene and train through diplomatic pressure. there were a few senators in the united states senate also issued such statement calling on the president and the state department to condemn the violence toward protesters i mean yes there is a general statement that we are against iraq violations but when it comes to rain hillary clinton made it clear that the. regime is strategic allies are important to

our interests and other way. other way the message was to the people of basically we. want the government and what that is going to do the people of ohio right now looking for an ally they're looking toward the united states for help and what kind of hope will not advocating here military will basically advocating for political help to mediate into the situation to resolve it but if the united states is not helping the states is going to. turn the blind eye then they're going to look into some other ally and that would be guess who iran because in reality the people in bahrain are shiite and when they look into iran iran is going to play this shueisha and it's going to be very much difficult for the united states to maintain a secure base in the country where they are ignoring the majority of the people and the legitimate grievances of the country ok stephen can i go to you real quickly before the break i want to talk about iran on now and in the second part of the program is this opening the door to around. the pro-democracy movement is not

opening the door to iran but the continued u.s. support for the regime in the ongoing repression i think very well could and with some very upsetting is there some people in a ministration who are exaggerating and the iranian influence in the pro-democracy struggle as a rationalization for continued backing of the seemingly jump you know the right not to jump in here and i'll let you finish when we come back from the break and after the break we'll continue our discussion on western policy in the arab world stay with our. sister. wealthy british style. stock.

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welcome back to cross talk peter lavelle remind you we're talking about the arab revolution. ok stephen if you go back to san francisco before we went to the break we were talking about the iranian angle here i mean they must be very amused watching how the united states is tripping all over itself with former allies in the region here when iran for all intensive purposes been pretty consistent if you like it or not consistent. what's very disappointing to hear dennis ross speak at a conference i was advised i'd spoken out on a previous panel in washington d.c. where ross who. has an important position in the administration as

a. special advisor on the greater middle east for the abound in stray ssion he was going on and on about how iran was manipulating the. the crisis in bahrain etc etc not one word criticizing their oppression i mean remind me so much of the cold war when whenever any kind of leftwing pro-democracy movement challenging right when you take a shit was somehow this conspiracy that came from the survey union in cuba but you know this president can you remind us of those who make peaceful evolution impossible violent revolution inevitable and that by supporting the continued repression it very well could drive some elements of the opposition into more around tickle hands so far the move is very nationalistic not pro reigning at all but this could change if the pro-democracy struggle caesar ran as they are now why not the united states and the west matthew is it really just the case is they

completely ok hussein and pensacola justin go ahead with this steven i completely agree with stephen look the only political association that's their member were not that they were fuck their leadership really set him on a stated yesterday that they cannot control the street and these you with them behave and who are seeing their parents their brothers their sisters get in unless that eventually they're going to have to become. violent they eventually have to face violence with violence and that's what would be that would not serve anyone especially would not serve the united states and for some brain you know matthew it's interesting is it really the stories about saudi arabia and what it wants and ever since mubarak was overthrown in egypt the saudis probably feel pretty scared i mean it because it was a mubarak in the in the saudi royal family with the two pillars there and the saudis are are not going to budge i mean it seems like this marriage of tribal

feudalism and modern capitalism is really beginning to fall apart it's breaking here why doesn't the united states really make that clear to the saudis say we've really got to happen to have a new kind of relationship because the current regime that you have in the in the region is untenable. i'll borrow one of our president's favorite quotes and say arc of history is long but it bends towards justice i mean we've seen that there are calls for a liberal democracy in the middle east i believe that the alsace on the wrong side of history and saudi arabia will be a democracy sometime in the future but that if the us like takes an aggressive posture will promote alienation and backlash but i just want to go back to one thing so stephen said to say that when he said that essentially the u.s. has a sort of hypocritical response because you know we're just supporting any dictatorship that will help us out a lot just sort of draw a parallel to the repression in belarus we're seeing some similar things go on and deloris and we're not refusing to intervene because we like the dictator look at

shanker and belarus we're not intervening we're not doing anything because we don't we simply don't have the capability so i really want to press steven and hussein this is why the army isn't going to us is like any need in the supporting the jewish cater ship or not to support a ship we have condemned the violence we've made an example of qaddafi but we just simply don't have the ability to affect all the good we would like to steven campaign i'm going to tell him every one intervention i'm talking about stopping just stopping these security assistance to the regime providing them with the weapons of the instruments of repression and making very clear that we're going to sever these kinds of. you know economic and strategic ties or they continue doing this kind of thing i mean we we put sanctions on syria and libya appropriately. against their against their will for. the longest losing for bargaining is a mistake i think. it's misstating that i think that the fact is we

are supporting behind the guns. can still be used against the peaceful protesters them behind and made in the united states there are weapons sold to but when. you leave this is still having aid for. every year equal to twenty million dollars we pay them aid and he will run to run their base saying that we're not we don't have influence or we cannot change the situation of our hands are tied i think it's because we have a lot of say so and we have a lot of influence on the regime there because we basically for this they are in power because we are supporting them matthew one of the things i find very interesting is that if united states and many of you could say the united states waffles from country to country and isn't it just because the united states wants to make sure there's an outcome that he can live with actually have an ally or new ally with a more democratic face or a new ally that will attempt to reform real or imagined i mean that's what the

waffling is all about because you know teachers can say in principle we are going to move forward in this direction and we're going to support protestors and democracy why can't we do that because we won't because we are looking after our interests first and foremost right. i think yes we are looking after our interests are also looking after geo political stability i mean if you want to talk about death repression horrible things i mean those things are as likely or more likely to result from war than they are from my repressive regime so i mean will you do something to massively destabilize the middle east make the al assad feel so threatened that they had to act out and i mean it is a dying ruling family that could it you know cause a lot more death and destruction and repression on a short term basis then maintaining geo political stability and promoting democracy with soft power what do you think about that stephen i mean i think that with a pretty low voter stephen first go ahead i mean. we're talking about

soft power we're talking about using the leverage the enormous leverage the united states has on countries like bahrain in terms of security assistance and and economic relationship and that kind of thing but the thing is is that you know you put a you put a lid on a boiling pot that's where the danger comes from that's where the explosion happens that it's i see no no contradiction between america's security interest and supporting democracy in that part of the world because democracies are much more stable in the long term than dictatorships so when you have dictatorships though that's when you get the most highly of much greater likelihood of war instability and the like so i there's no contradiction and we really do need for even putting aside the moral and legal questions for our own national security

interest we need to support democracy and stop supporting dictatorships you say you want to jump in there. yes look all over is advising obama on. policy toward iran or the persian gulf countries i think is doing a big service because the policy toward iran i mean and rather we're somehow supporting dictators a dictatorship and bahrain or and g.c.c. countries serve our interests i think is going to backfire is going to hurt american interests it's going to cause these real cause these nations these people to turn into someone else that probably will not be an ally to us probably was going to hurt our existence and in the region so it's in the best interest of the obama administration and the united states of america to find to find new allies in these movements because these are genes these are autocratic regimes that been ruling these countries for over two hundred years not going to sustain in their current status matthew look like you are blowing their procession go ahead ahead go

. yeah i mean steven hussein have both clarified that that what they want to solve i mean first of all as pointed out still be a double standard relative to what we're doing in libya so that's the talking point here. but more importantly i mean i'm not sure exactly is going on inside the administration what i would guess though is is sort of the have on information is sort of holding those cards things are bad in bahrain they're bad in saudi arabia but they could get a lot worse and so maybe the obama administration wants to maintain the ability to exercise that soft power in the future and i hate once again to be sort of the like the cynical skunk here but i mean the crowd equipments haven't worked out for the u.s. or for liberalism in iran in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine in the gaza strip for example so i'm not sure i i just think it's kind of naive to say democracy is always furthers liberalism and u.s. interests particularly in the middle east even go right ahead there's a there's a very there's just told serious analogies hamas won elections in

actions and palestine as a reaction to the israeli occupation and to the corruption and autocratic rule of fatah. similarly ran the the the mullahs the reactionaries and of hijacking that revolution in part because the u.s. backed the shah for so many years he was able to crush in marginalize the more democratic and moderate elements of the revolution so the ayatollah was rooted able to fill in the political vacuum and you know the longer we support the bahraini regime the more likely could end up in that scenario but the difference in bahrain for one thing about raney's don't traditionally follow ayatollah don't you find in iran doesn't do much follow more the more quietest you know. that all those people who like to sania and those and in that tradition so again i don't think it's anything that. the idea of bahrain is somehow going to turn into this

fundamentalist islamist. state i think it shows a real ignorance of bahraini politics i should quickly add there are just visions within the administration on this issue i know for a fact this has been a real battle in fact about where the u.s. policy should be in bahrain and thus far the more hawkish elements secretary of state clinton's or her defense a gates have ended up winning but i think this can change if the american people as we did in terms of u.s. support for all salvador and u.s. support for indonesia during the height of the repression in those countries i think enough people raise enough of a fuss and this is reflected in capitol hill i think there is a chance of changing u.s. policy so i really really i so i really think there's a there's a hope in this administration for more and all right john i'm afraid we have to hear from people would run out of time many thanks might actually san francisco new york and pensacola and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.

see you next time and remember a prostitute. can still. think it's funny. i tell marvin here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

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