luis silage bryson if you move soon from violence to gratian movies. for instance on t.v. don't come. with us here live from moscow a recap now of all top stories the leading countries are threatening to ramp up pressure against syria bring an end to the violent crackdowns against demonstrators but there are concerns it could lead to another no fly zone and libya style air strikes. france is being blamed for compromising civil liberties and discriminating against muslims country's security patrols over concerns of retaliation for its actions in libya. and

a radical islamists are finding it easier to recruit young people in russia's north caucuses the government is working to battle the influence in the region which is known as a terrorism. well with a un vote on the palestinian statehood looming there are concerns that even a decision in favor will not move the peace forward now it's time for the discussion on cross talk with people about to stick with us. live. live live. live live. live pick up the sound. live. live. alone and welcome across our bank you know all about amidst the stalemate in

israeli palestinian peace making a storm of people like activity is growing palestinian leaders say they will take their case to the united nations general assembly and seek international recognition of palestine as a state the palestinians will most likely get the recognition they want but will it mean much. to keep the selim. discussed the future of a palestinian state i'm joined by ramsey by rudin's seattle he's the editor in chief of the palestine chronicle and in washington we cross the alan elsner he's the senior director of communications and research for the israel project ok gentlemen crosstalk rules and i think that means you can jump in anytime you want you both have very different points of view and i want my viewers to see that but first let's take a look at what some people call the peace process in the middle east. with israeli palestinian peace process and limber and their protests in full swing the

palestinian authority has spent its hopes on a renewed campaign for statehood and september the palestinian leadership intends to grain its case before the u.n. general assembly that analysts predict could deliver up to one hundred fifty votes in recognition of at stake but israel has been steadfastly opposed to what it calls a new one sided moves and sees the looming change as a major threat to its security we are facing a diplomatic political. tsunami majority of the public is unaware of and that will peak in september if the un does pass the resolution it would have made palestine as a former member with a territory that includes gaza all of the west bank and east jerusalem settled by hundreds of thousands of israelis the recognition could also help palestine bring international pressure to bear on israel and even seek action against it including sanctions and support of un peacekeepers if need be all this has become the cause of grave concern for top israeli officials prime minister benjamin netanyahu has

always emphasized caution and time before making steps and the negotiation process must be going to go should agree with the plan but to. change in the distorting history he's now said to be preparing an emergency proposal to be announced by the end of may according to the higher its newspaper his also planning to withdraw troops from the west bank as a temporary trade off washington two is most likely to throw its weight behind israel and even as some say cut financial aid to the palestinians united states and best hundreds of millions of dollars to build palestinian capacity because we know that progress on the ground improve security and helps lay the foundation for a future palestinian state meanwhile polls show a critical split in public opinion a survey conducted by the washington based israel project should the thirty one percent of americans favor a unilateral palestinian declaration of independence while the poor held and two

thousand and ten by the arab world for research and development showed that sixty eight percent of palestinians favored a two state solution however top israeli officials say israel would do anything to make sure it doesn't have to cede land and while netanyahu works to devise a plan out of this bind come september a full house vote could put israel on the wrong side of history and hundreds of thousands. on the wrong side of the border my son turned all across our article. ok i want to go to you first. it's not a bad idea that these are the i'm sorry the palestinians are doing this a lot of would go a lot of people would say the occupation is lasted long enough there's been no real peace process and there's just been a colonization of the west bank i mean in many ways a lot of people with international opinion say the at the palestinians have very few choices right now what is really on the table in light of the palestine papers

that were released a few months ago but let me first say well thank you for inviting me to be on the show i just like to make the point right away that i'm in favor of a palestinian state and that israel is in favor of a palestinian state and that the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has stated that he is in favor of a palestinian state but the only way to get to a palestinian state is through negotiations there are no short cuts there are no other ways of doing it and i would just like to take issue with the report that you just showed which suggested that the united nations general assembly can recognize a palestinian state and grant that state membership of the united nations that is flatly wrong only the security council can do that and i don't you know i think i'll leave all that a lot of there's a lot of legal opinion that would strongly disagree with you sir on that strongly disagree with you on that ok it is one of the reasons why you are going the united nations security council because it is like

a last resort if i go to rooms they please my. mr netanyahu says he is for a palestinian state is that a palestinian state that you even would recognize even if baby israeli said we recognize a palestinian state. not at all jim an attorney and many israeli officials for years i would say starting september one thousand nine hundred ninety three until today and maybe even prior to that have been saying all the right things they've been talking about peace they've been talking about security they've been talking about the palestinian independence and they want to see a palestinian state but what they are doing on the ground is what really matters i don't care what arlen says i don't care what in german netanyahu said in his last speech whether before the congress or before the knesset were truly matters are the settlements are the soldiers are the tanks are the boots on the ground and this is what we really need to be talking about not the rhetoric because we've heard so

much rhetoric really frankly from all sides but that doesn't change much as long as the tank is still there and the settlements are being expanded i do actually agree with very poor it my only thing with the report is is that this sentence that might find itself on the wrong side of history in september in reality israel has always been on the wrong side of history starting nine hundred forty seven hoti eight with the first two under the lucian's regarding the status of israel until today israel has never ever ventured off that wrong side of history and the insist on staying there and one honey reclined there because a lot of people would say that the the u.s. in the israelis likely go sheet for negotiation purposes for the sake of negotiations because every since i asked so what do you really see on the ground is ramsey pointed out you see

a lot of israeli security and you see hundreds of thousands of settlers or colonizers what most in the world would call them probably for some assurance that i'm able to answer yes or interrupt absolutely go ahead go ahead ahead go. ok one now my point is very simple the only way to get peace and to get a palestinian state is by negotiating it you could go and pass a resolution in the general assembly and you will be left with a piece of paper it actually is a mystery to me why president abbas is wasting time on this maneuver because it will get him nothing it will get him a declaration. that will provide nothing in our settlements is one of the issues in the negotiations and there are other issues in the negotiations as well very important issues jerusalem israeli security the issue of refugees all of these things have to be resolved there is no shortcut there's no way of getting around it you have to negotiate peace will not be imposed by one side on another it won't be

imposed by the united nations it won't be opposed imposed by the court or by the united states and will be reached by the parties sitting there and negotiating so my advice to president abbas is come back to the table and negotiate it doesn't matter how far back you go in history and what you cite and which numbers you bring up and what grievances you raise the reality is there are two people living together and they need to divide this land and live together is need was and the only way to do that is by negotiating the one group what negotiations have we seen and who's winning in these negotiations have been even if i was i never really liked the term peace process because i don't see any peace being made. exactly and alan doesn't like history because history is very indicting really what you think about it so fine let's not talk about the history of sixty years ago but it's a little for a second here imagine what could possibly go through mahmoud abbas's had and by the

way i disagree with so many things about us has been has done but for a second here let's try to indulge yourself and think what mahmoud abbas would have said to alan at this point and i would say that he would say listen we've been doing we've been talking for about twenty years now not only did we waste so much time and we achieve nothing but we are actually regressing palestinians during that time lost so much more land the number of illegal settlers in oakey applied is jerusalem in the west bank has doubled gaza is under siege and is going through a process of protracted war thousands of people have been killed and injured since then and our economy is worsening our our situation our disunity there is so much that happened as a result of of the so-called negotiations maybe for benjamin netanyahu and others it's really the matter of sitting around the table and paying the same all the

political antics for the palestinians we are enduring for the palestinians who are losing great deal as a result of this in this frivolous talks that we have been engaged in and we achieved nothing and we have lost a great deal since then and when can you mention something in the the palestinians have gone out of negotiation since are slow. because of course the israel withdrew from most of the. from most of the west bank cities and there and the palestinians run those cities on their own i was just recently in ramallah the place is booming contrary to what runs he just said the palestinian economy grew by about nine percent last year only if only the united states economy would grow by nine percent now he mentioned gaza and the situation is that israel withdrew from gaza in two thousand and five there are no settlements there are no troops and what do we get instead and that was a unilateral move what we got was hamas which continues to fire rockets almost

every day at israeli civilians according to our count three hundred twenty eight rockets so far this year just a couple of weeks ago some terrorists fired a guided antitank missiles at an israeli school bus it was actually a russian built anti-tank missile so it's curious how they got hold of that and so this is you know this is a situation which shows you have your you have your grievances i have my grievances is not that i don't want to talk about history i can go back and quote history with the best of us and i can give a radically different interpretation of history but where does it actually get i'm sorry. now that you're still very important but after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the israeli palestinian conflict speaking with r.t. . download

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with mike's cause or for a no holds barred look at the global financial headlines tune in to cause a report on our team. can. start. welcome back across not computable to remind you we're talking about the possible recognition of a palestinian state. and. ok ramsey if i can go to you this program is about the the possible vote in september but so it means we have a few months before that vote and we know that netanyahu is going to the united states and we also know that obama is what possibly going to make a big announcement here i mean it looks like a very there is a an in like i don't i don't want to forget the arab awakening are going through

all through the region here this it would be a good time for him to go. shaded peace to be made between the parties because israel does have issues with the palestinians of very strong historical one but the kid with a level of change it's going through the region right now might be a good idea to get a decent deal for both sides so they at least that issue can be put to rest because all there is going to be a lot of other issues and rivaling as the arab awakening continues. you know mahmoud abbas the so-called president of the palestinian authority perhaps. has reached a point of compromise that most palestinians really disagree with. and i personally find his compromises very appalling considering what our people have been going through here that someone like mahmoud abbas still couldn't find common ground with benjamin netanyahu the good girl lieberman and many others because this has made it

very clear not only they don't want negotiated peace and they don't want a settlement that abides by international law they are doing their own thing and they are not abashed at all by doing it the fervent build up and is drusilla i'm the settlement freeze of this book about last year has all been made up for and there is more under construction throughout the west bank illegal settlements then in any other years in the last five years and that's according to peace now which is an israeli organization so the israelis have given no indications whatsoever they are keenly interested in peace they want to get back to the so-called negotiated table in order for them to win more time to build more settlements and to achieve whatever strategic and colonial gains they have in the west bank it's very difficult even for someone as amiable as mahmoud abbas to really carry on with

this show right for too long and this is a problem this is what he is doing to the united nations because he is here just losing hope that the u.s. especially obama who has spoken of the need to freeze settlements and all of that he is the first obama who voted against with you anderson lucian in february that condemns the freezing of the settlements so the u.s. is negating its all in policy regarding the. settlements so what else could not move the bus at this point to do a right wing government and an inconsistent american president there is absolutely no other option for this man but to go to the united nations and seek a third option ok now i know there was a lot said there do you want to reply to it. ok i first want to pick up your point about the arab spring as you put it all of the unrest gripping the arab world and it's striking to me that on a day when syria again is using live fire against its own citizens that the u.n.

is not discussing that that issue the u.n. is a body the u.n. general assembly is a body that is has a record of a shameful record of anti israel activity the same body the past as zionism is racism resolution in the seventy's and had to withdraw in the night in the ninety's so whatever this body does the general assembly has absolutely no credibility the un is is not stepping in with the massacres in yemen not stepping in the massacres in bahrain or the ones in syria so let me just put that on the record secondly again you know i come back to the same point that i come back to each time you have to negotiate a settlement there is no other way you can go to the u.n. you can get your resolution and maybe i'll make you feel good for five minutes but what will actually change on the ground with me is very downers analogy when and where are the negotiations i mean i'm sorry i'm repeating the question arose we are

in a. row here no negotiations because our bus is refusing to come to negotiations because israel's refuses are you holding settlements i mean there is this action reaction you know i mean settlements is one of the issues to be negotiated you can't come and sit preconditions israel doesn't set preconditions israel doesn't say we'll only negotiate if you agree in advance to our position on security or our position on jerusalem both very strongly held positions you have to come to the negotiations without preconditions and then negotiate a bus's never set preconditions before now all of a sudden he won't come to the negotiations until israel freezes the settlements while israel froze the settlements for ten months last year it is asking good for annoying let me just finish my point is i'm just benjamin i let me just finish my point very quickly we're going to be there ok because just because you suspending building are illegal but that's like saying you know i'm going to give back you your own property isn't it. well first of all i would say that you know as

a moderator it would behoove you to take a neutral stand in this otherwise i said i don't believe in light on what i don't believe the same way how can a moral person just be neutral about other people suffering is a question of doing your job in a profession why you're doing as i'm doing here is exactly what i'm supposed to be doing rumsey go ahead ok so so so you both ganged up against me and let me finish my point let me just finish my point that the settlement freeze was declared for ten months a bus did not come back to the table until nine and a half months of those would go on and then he sat there for two weeks and then he left and since then he's been refusing to come back he has not given the negotiations a chance ok ramsey go ahead. you know i'm just i don't want to be repeating the same point over and over again it just seems to me that as far as israel is concerned the peace process is the status quo ante and they want to keep

it that way because they are benefiting i mean they are still getting the three billion dollars from american tax money every year they're still getting all the support the political validation they need from the u.s. and its allies all over the world and they are still using the same all tired redundant language trying to the village of demise an entire international body like the general assembly just simply because they you and those and want to see eye to eye with israel's illegal. settlement building and violations of human rights in gaza and the west bank and jerusalem and just simply because you and doesn't agree to this then the entire you and becomes a hypocritical illegitimate organization which is really in my opinion is very and why aren't it however to go back to the issue of negotiations and yet once more i repeat we have negotiated for twenty years and we lost much more than before we

have nothing to show for what can possibly someone like man with the best of his people now why should i return back to the negotiation table while there are three thousand houses under construction in the illegal settlements in the west bank while neighborhoods like sue one and she girard and is jerusalem are being taken over by by rightwing jewish settlers why should i return back and talk to these people shake their hand and smile to cameras it's just a waste of time and it's demoralizing and it's getting us nowhere ok alan is in need me now to a million and just ask are you here to let me. work work work what's your alternative how are you going to get to a palestinian state if you do come back to negotiations. you know at this point i am not very picky regarding terminology how do we get to the palestinian what i want to get to at this point is what i perceive as the priority of the palestinian

people we need unity between palestinians unity independent of israel israeli pressure and manipulation american pressure and financial manipulation we need to achieve unity between the west bank and gaza between palestinians if we where this is what we need to achieve right now we need a real steal with the lonely hearts who supposedly arsenal are going i had let me ask you a let me ask you a follow up runcie you say you need unity between the listeners in the west bank and in gaza ok hamas in its charter says that it's in favor of destroying israel and it calls on its people to kill jews so the unity that you want to achieve would be on the terms of hamas or than through on the terms of the palestinian authority ramsey go ahead. neither neither really i mean if you go back a few weeks ago i wrote an article where i called on hamas i said it's really in the spirit of the arab spring it's time for self correction and i called on hamas

to leave visit and to rethink its charter because not only it's inconsistent with the national aspirations of the palestinian people it's inconsistent with hamas is political program according to which they won the elections of two thousand and six but in reality to answer your question alan i don't want to see unity based on the guidelines of hamas or fatah i want unity that is based on the national aspiration of the palestinian people at home and india those aspirations that are validated and are consistent with international law that says the behavior of israel in the west bank and is tourism and gaza illegal this is what i would like to see and that's what i think is our top priority unfortunately every time palestinians get even close to achieving that unity you know what happens immediately hillary clinton and prior to that can these arise with twist of buses arms would threaten

that they would withhold funds from the palestinians if they actually achieve that unity the same behavior the israel so i worry in the midst of a slightly observation i will tell you in israel and the u.s. right now and i give you a year i'm sure now i'm going to add. well when abbas said he wanted to visit gaza to achieve this unity what happened and there were demonstrations in favor of it how muskrats down let's remember hamas gets its arms gets its weapons from iran and iran is interested in keeping this conflict going iran is valid also to destroy israel israel lives in a very dangerous neighborhood this is why we have this dimension of israel i wish you well it's a distraction you just tell me it's no instructional and when somebody hit you just won the argument now it's a major distraction and has very little to do with the reality on the ground when somebody when somebody is building a nuclear weapon and he's vowing to destroy me that's something that i take big

stream me seriously and as a son of a holocaust survivor that kind of history is very mindful i don't take genocidal personal area i know that very dangerous the reality of beirut are a gentleman on the money point here you have to stop it. thank you very much many thanks to my guest today in washington and in seattle and thanks to our viewers for watching us here on r.t. see you next time remember cross talk us. through the. reasons you the latest in science technology from the realms. of the future covered.

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is today violence is once again flared up.