welcome to the new america guilty until proven innocent i hope obama didn't learn that at harvard law above his recent statements about bradley manning show a new contempt for the american constitution that even i didn't think it was capable of what does this mean for whistleblowers don't say anything or obama will have you strip down to your underwear and placed into solitary confinement we've got the man who put obama on the spot logan price joining us from san francisco we'll talk whistleblowing with kevin zeese and to manson and jake and i will sit down lieutenant colonel anthony shaffer the man whose book was so good the pentagon try to buy every copy yes i'd like to honor p.f.c. manning but contrary to rumor and request i won't be doing it by delivering

tonight's show my underwear you're welcome and you're watching out of versus the man. the way. every politician will tell you they support people within the government speaking out against wrongdoing within government whistleblowers those who have the courage to stand up to their chain of command or supervisors to get the truth out and bring accountability were so often there is none tragically that support seems to end the moment the truth being brought to light signs on the corruption of the politicians . such is the case with bradley manning the us army whistleblower accused of leaking documents known as the afghan war diary the iraq war logs and some of verisign state department cables to the end

a seriously website wiki leaks well many of those attacking manning have made pretty wild claims about the impact of those documents defense secretary robert gates said their effect on foreign relations would be fairly modest sum of claim that what he did is a threat to every military person mentioned in the documents but it's clear that it's really only a threat to those mentioned who were doing something wrong until the move just days ago to the tropical resort known as fort leavenworth kansas according to the obama administration in order to get better treatment bradley manning was being held in illegal solitary pretrial confinement at marine corps base quantico they seen twenty two separate charges some of which carry the threat of the death penalty the first of his charge sheet reads private first class bradley manning u.s. army did at or near contingency operating station hammer iraq between on or about one november two thousand and nine and on or about twenty seven making thousands

and with proper authority knowingly give intelligence to the enemy through indirect means last week obama spoke at a five thousand dollar ticket fundraiser in san francisco which was interrupted by a protest song followed by pathetic concessions of will vote for you anyway. this. was. one of the protesters for the low low price of five thousand dollars now to confront obama afterwards as well. so we're also a nation of presume guilt without

a trial it seems obama has condemned manning you would think a graduate of harvard law would remember that one little detail known as innocence until proven guilty but we're not even a nation of law under obama when asked about prosecuting crimes of the bush administration his answer was we need to look forward as most as opposed to one looking backwards. i wish that every time i've got in trouble i could have gotten off the hook by just saying oh and let's not look backwards let's look forwards and that doesn't even start to touch on the myriad of illegally constitute unconstitutional things president obama has done himself since taking office joining me now is the man whose work has revealed that obama as a law breaking tyrant that he is logan price is with us from san francisco california logan thank you so much for joining us thank you adam so great work what

was it like confronting obama well i'll admit when i was a little bit nervous but i didn't have much time to think about it and i had just one chance to let him know my thoughts and also try to get a chance to hear his thoughts i didn't expect it to be that it is just as long of a discussion as it was. but i think it revealed some very interesting things well thank you for having the courage to stand up to him in the way that you did what do you think his answers revealed. well i think it revealed several things he's done we've got a much better idea of what his actual thoughts are situation and that's exactly why i wanted to bring up with him because i don't think that anybody so far has really confronted him in public about what's going on bradley manning and about the president's own responsibility in this case as commander in chief to ensure that it's fair and i think you know one of the things he said one of the first things he said was in that video is that this is a nation of laws and i think i could definitely be

a little bit in doubt right now especially with the grunts on the most stuff going on but it's particularly in doubt with bradley manning it's like. not only is it in the the uniform military code of justice that the trial could. take and can't be used as a form of punishment bradley's been pressuring him in for almost a year ok so the information's out trial is going to be happening at some point in the future bradley manning got his information out there not in a lot of me or secured computer ever again why is this case important i think it's important because it's bradley manning is in a this is how i started this conversation with the president i said mr president you know bradley manning is probably the most important whistleblower much integration. i'm of bradley manning's generation i'm twenty seven years old he's only if you're going to think that it's somebody that's had this promise profound effect on the world and i think it's actually maybe in some ways if he is guilty of these crimes and telling the truth is maybe giving us more hope than than obama

himself and we elected on that promise. that we can do extrapolations and help build democracy in the arab world they you know forever redefine journalism. they've now given us the truth about. and really in a way giving us an opportunity. to create the world wide discussions and debates and reforms that bradley allegedly typed. all right this is second left here you're an organizer with the bradley manning support network bradley manning dot org what can people do to help support your cause at this point they can visit our web site and also turn out on if they're in the in the four state area they can turn and this. protest on june fourth for bradley manning the last protest at quantico there were almost thirty people arrested and you know it's very himself there's lots of things people can do if the graphic designer sign or it's sort of talent that all of their help. excellent thank you so much that was logan price of the bradley

manning support network so what does all this mean for whistleblowers and would be whistleblowers i'm grateful to everyone who has shown their support for bradley because it sort of sick our to some degree the harsh punishment preemptively delivered by the military however there are still those that want to see this whistleblower punished joining me now are jim hansen of the warrior legacy foundation and kevin zeese of voters for peace general thanks so much for being in studio with us this evening thanks to be here are i didn't start with you because you are in the military so you know you have a. direct sense of perspective on this when you were serving what was the message that you were given by your command about if you saw a violation of the law if you thought you were getting an awful order what were you supposed to do in a situation like that pretty unequivocal i mean there are mechanisms directly within the command to report illegalities illegal orders or anything out of the ordinary there's also the inspector general which is a completely separate parallel track for people who don't believe they can be fairly treated by the commit so there's plenty of ways if bradley manning actually

was a whistleblower for him to have blown the whistle he's not but we have we can are so weak we couldn't we don't have to adhere to the same standard of obama as part of the administration in the government but we're going to soon the bradley manning is the whistleblower to blow that up a lot i mean over all the stuff he vomited onto the internet did any of it show actual illegality yes not. there's a little there are the prosecutions tell me before we get into that what do you think do you think in this day and age of question for both of you in this day and age for the kind of information that he felt compelled to release whether or not you would have been compelled to release it is the mechanism sufficient though. even even when even back when to release the pentagon papers you try to go through command structures and try to go through the certain congress in the prior year the media to grease the pentagon papers rarely manning according to some of the news that new york was on this first. involving torturing and. of billions in iraq he allegedly brought that to the commander he was directly above the commander

rejected and said nothing going on here get more iraqis than the rest of iraq that same kind of prison so he tried going through command structure it didn't work and so what do you what do you do seeing was widespread crimes and we just saw crimes released yesterday about the get no documents that showed torture going and torture is that they got to be horrifically those into those silly that show torture in fact their dark ok i want a job where there is a way that i was part of their doctors so i covered doctors covering up torture time of day another crime and the doctor saw hillary clinton ordering the state department spies and you do mats another crime of them on a crime is a lot of real crime if you can say that you can make a case that maybe there was more released then necessary to expose the specific things but would you make a case that there was nothing i would make the case really nothing that has made it into the public eye of the wiki leaks releases that are attributed to manning has shown evidence of any crimes whatsoever the accusations of torture they actually

torture a dumb down to the point that they're irrelevant i mean the idea that anything we did that was coercive in nature is torture watergate is this larger in which i said we believe the only place you have these are dead we put jeb is there's a different community or crime we project is the death of the network why and why are americans allowed to allowed do it about japanese alcoholism work let's assume for a second that bradley manning had access to all this intelligence and his conscience was obviously bothered by what he saw whether or not you believe that it would have met your standards for releasing those documents what would you have done as a soldier today and do you really have that kind of confidence in the chain of command in the military system right now if you could just say that if you were ordered to do something that you thought was illegal or you saw in the military that you caught was wrong do you have confidence in the chain of command you would just tell your superior officer and say ok well you know there's torture happening sir if you if you dress. so i really appreciate her and the best of luck away i would have used the latest torture has been what's going on all right we've got all

right if i if as a military person i never had any difficulty finding an honorable person if for some reason my chain of command was compromised which never was but i would have had no qualms about finding someone either in the i.g. or elsewhere to report this to me didn't do that his claim that manning found these evidence of war crimes and try to put a lot of chain of command is complete b.s. it didn't happen it's a good thing any because they didn't but look i know it's no he just said i do know this is what they want example of torture of iraqi soldiers i said that that occurred you know what i what i was what i didn't know what he meant to save the radley's and went through the normal process you know it's not for these allegations he didn't but i get my point is that we have a very widespread corruption foreign policy we are a superpower that's a bully we misuse our power through force through bribery through threats through all sorts of abuses of power and what was important about these documents being fully released not just piecemeal is to give the american public the whole picture

so we can see the good the bad the ugly and the illegal and what we need now is people actually do something we can see allies if unit commanders is a lack of investigation by the obama administration firstly the level of torture is off and let the torture warriors keep their license and let the cia does it destroy evidence of torture videotape they let them off how can you trust the chain of command we need the public discussion this country about where this military is its ability to describe the american name we need to change it dramatically ok and then . there was this this is a very good general zinni who had minutes for all that i want to get back to the subject of whistleblowing or even for someone of your perspective on bradley manning. what message should we be sending to would be whistleblowers in his position and how does the treatment of him at this point reflect on that. follow the prescribed ways and blow the whistle instead of just throwing a snit fit getting your panties in a wad and sending a whole bunch of information you didn't take the time to back into the public eye

it was unnecessary and to your point about the military you guys very proud of you are going to deliver very being a disgrace if you want to go there and think the us military and show you the us military is the greatest force for good in the history of the planet in order to where there was a year execute like caliber all the new us military is a disgrace an american in the way it behaves look at us make our i've always been around your day ron i have a letter that will carry on you and go on for as long as it takes them to work this out but thank you both for joining us jim hansen of the warrior legacy foundation and kevin zeese of voters for peace. when we come back they deliver and i will sit down with a man who's got operation dark heart was so bad the pentagon tried to buy every copy senior fellow center for advanced defense studies lieutenant colonel anthony shaffer is here in studio stand by you're watching adam vs the man.

look. like drives the world the pyramid. great used by politicians who makes decisions it's considered a breakthrough it's already been made who can you trust no one who is jim deal with

the global machinery see where we had it state controlled capitalism it's called sessions when nobody dares to ask we do our t.v. question more. let's get it we are right. i think. we never got the says they're going to keep him safe get ready for freedom.

instead only at military mechanisms to do the work of supreme justice or accountability. i have a right to know what my government should do it want to know why i think taxes. but i would characterize obama as a charismatic version of american exceptionalism. very excited to be joined by our next guest lieutenant colonel anthony shaffer he got his start in the military way back in one nine hundred eighty enlisted with the ohio army national guard and he would offer soon after that his career as an officer however may have been stifled lately is this is a man who knows how to challenge authority as

a part of the defense intelligence agency he participated in a data mining program that was able danger his claim that they knew of two of the three terrorist cells implicated in nine eleven before the attack happened and even said that he personally briefed cia director tenet on three separate occasions about this and then told the director of the nine eleven commission about it only to be written out of the nine eleven commission report he was defended on his assertions by members of congress including republican representative curt weldon only to be discredited by the senate intelligence committee who claimed that there was nothing to say for his assertions and no evidence of cover up his recent book operation dark heart spy craft and special ops on the front lines of afghanistan and the paths of victory was the target of a censorship in time by the pentagon after they tried to buy of all ten thousand copies of the first print run before approving a censored version talk about a clumsy attempt proved to be a boon for the book as attempts at censorship like this then backfire he's currently a senior fellow at the center for advanced defense studies and slogan is innovation

for peace. lieutenant colonel thank you so much for drugs you are having me is going to be on high spirits good to have you here tony one things we are all veterans here we all served in iraq afghanistan a number of other places and as we sort of try to process what happened over the last ten years in the world a nation's longest war history the most expensive there's no end in sight this isn't a rock obama has any plans of bring it to an end the republican candidates and we don't know i mean is it is it fair to say that the leadership has poorly effect poorly led these operations and that's why we've been failing so far well there's an old adage insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results we've seen it time and time again over the past ten years we've and many aspects of the problem and i would be very blunt about this because this came up during my house and senate hearings no one got fired over nine eleven so the same folks who made this the bad decision before nine eleven have in many ways been promoted enhanced and given

a new position to be of higher authority which to me indicates that nothing's changed and the whole idea of creating a d.n.i. director of national intelligence to quote a republican leader has done nothing but to put a misfunctioning bureaucracy on top of another missed action drama government at its best and we things up again the ending you see as you say in the south of your book path to victory how do you define victory and it's bad to make various not in afghanistan and if the last chapter is that's a good occasion to a path which looks a lot more like a northern ireland stop peace process that's right say basically we have fundamentally mis understood completely the cultures which were dealing with and today in the new york times no papers talk about this this afghan taking a gun and killing you know killing nato guys possibly a plan probably a plan we don't understand the culture in which we're trying to work with the afghans are fundamentally a tribal people we have sided with one tribe over another we sided with the northern alliance with karzai over the pashtun. and the taliban we've now gotten

ourselves into essentially. a war against a freedom movement it's not about entangling alliances we are and it's it makes no sense both from the military perspective my book focuses on tipping point from we are we abandon the policy of anti-terrorism so if you wish to go into this that this city has to give us a counterinsurgency let me ask you about that what specifically did the pentagon screw up in mismanaged that took us off track from actually accomplishing the goals after nine eleven which brought me an adam and yourself into iraq and as our standard war in afghanistan just for the afghan peace most of us knew and i wasn't always an afghan and i learned fairly quickly when i was informed before i deployed in zero three to zero four about what was really going on above my own as most of us who were in the inside circle knew that pakistan was the issue and how goes pakistan those the war that was true of the soviet occupation we did everything through through them and frankly our proxies who we used for these against the soviets have now come back and haunt us so this is where i think we made some huge

misunderstandings of who was roiled to who and ride it with oil and this is the fundamental issue that we have to deal with and i talked about this my book the fundamental issue of instability for the afghan theater is not afghanistan it is the indian pakistan cold war the indians being there for better or for worse has been a destabilizing effort they've invested a lot of money in kabul and frankly it's one of the situations where our leadership sort of such as said you know india you're a great country but he should be you know there's a place you can help afghanistan's a concern of the proxy war it has let's listen it was great so india is helping afghanistan and meanwhile it's making pakistan less safe it's making pakistan feel less safe it's a perception it may not be the reality but it's the perception that drives pakistan right so what happens now is the economy network one of the big three taleban organizations has become a proxy for the for the i.s.i. the intelligence service of pakistan to attack and interests and we know. this is

the lunacy of the policy this is why we've talked about this amongst ourselves and i've said this on the air we fundamentally have asked pakistan to work against its own self-interest and no country i know of that's existed more than a decade or so will work against its own self-interest so what we've done is we've created this basket case with many bodies made it worse by the fact we force the pakistanis to go into the tribal areas to do our bidding and this is the bottom line we've got some studies on this and i think tank and we actually i know some guys who were actually in after and pakistan after nine eleven to go three the tribal elders in pakistan got we were attacked and even if they were supporting al qaeda you know if if if if you kill my sister and you're still living in my house well i'm going to you're my guest but if someone comes to kill you what's your own thought because you're wrong this is the guy that was the fundamental thing revenge is a known and accepted cultural barrier and we instead of doing it ourselves which we should have really worried about we forced the pax to go in there because it was

our own twenty first century it's your country you go take care of it and it's worked out very badly and the problem is it's continuing to work out very badly every time we do you know that either we go over there or they come over here or general kayani was here recently and he said i. really get it this time we're going to help you and i'm sure a year from now we're going to you know we really get this done this has been going on for the past eight years so it goes back to my original premise insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting somehow different result of it let me ask of course about whistleblowing because essentially you consider yourself a whistleblower and i think the definition i'll give you know that i've been called one so if you've done a great job bringing things to light that otherwise would not have been bringing them to the light of the public and we see right now we it's almost like you're the proper professional version of bradley manning who i want us to write who does that and it wears you've been working to bring things to light and change policy partly working within the system working without it in the work now whereas for him it was a single act and we're going to throw out all this information but if even critical

. that in the past if bradley manning came to you if you were in let's say you were is immediate supervisor you are and he said look i am really compelled about this i see this this and there is this wrongdoing going on what would you advice him to do how would you handle the let me let me actually in two parts first of all as a supervisor i've been in a position where i've had wrongdoing reported to me and i had to take it to the i.g. and i was investigated not and i felt was very badly investigated because obviously any organization of political trends which go against people at times with that said i've never been one to sit down and shut up obviously and in many ways that's got me in more trouble even today and i still get criticized by the army on a lot of things i do and it's even though i'm not doing it in uniform because i'm still an army reserve but with that said if you come to me as a super as saying this is a war crime i would work with them as best i could to get it in for the i.g. and possibly even the compounders a number of the army i would have were well a number of the operations i was running away i mean even in your case let me go to

you let me handle it or go home and what i wanted was a was let me scam let me answer that for two parts again i mean first. the operations i ran had congressional oversight none of my operations i had to have a congressional audit team come then look at everything i was doing so i know if they're concerned about something to look at it with that said trent lott once told me in agreement thoughts that it's never good to be right ahead of time in his town and there's consequences that i've learned from that with that said had manning come to me and my current life there are two organizations i would refer them to and work with them and i've done this for other folks out there making a lot of organizations well the two of the two i do work with is project on government oversight daniel bryan a wonderful woman a wonderful organization they do a lot of good and i've donated my time with them before to help out and doing things and then another organization called judicial watch and they do things a lot they are a lot more litigious than pogo i mean they are much more lawyer based if you can

use that term but both organizations are very much into writing wrongs and they don't have anybody to answer to their growth privately funded organizations they do not have government funding coming in so the answer to no one except their constituencies which for better for worse sort of the american people and what i would have done and based on my knowledge of the hill now because i didn't have that back when i was. on the inside there are certain congressional members you can go to to get help and this is where you know i had congress was one of my champions or was others behind the stage if you're fortunate to have that opportunity certainly and how we're going to send a lesson on are we going to change gears for a second because i'd be remiss to not ask a question that our our viewers have been eager to hear you talk about nine eleven an operation able danger. because it was it was an operation it was an operation operation able danger and the your testimony that you had intelligence that was not used appropriately that. i would you say could have prevented nine eleven i said did i believe that the intelligence had been properly shared could have prevented

the nine eleven attacks and you've also said as they've been very critical about not there not being accountability for all the obvious errors would you support a new investigation i'll afford if only to this for the accountability of i have a lot of friends and facebook or truth there's and i've often said i have to clarify i am not a truth or but let me to head is to i am a proud but. i support the truth is calling for a new investigation as the one common ground that we share outstanding i agree this is fantastic tony i'm so glad you're here you're going to give me of stossel show tomorrow night right yes all right well all week as it's all the time we have for that i thank you so much for joining us and. that was whistleblower extraordinarily kind of colonel anthony shaffer the role of whistleblowers is essential to government accountability and how we treat whistleblowers today will mean the difference in the future between the truth coming to light and the evils of government continuing in darkness it is essential that we promote protect and

encourage with the lawyers to come forth the spite the hurdles that they may face from their superiors and the systems in which they operate if we allow the slander of bradley manning to go unchallenged it may mean that the next would be whistleblower will not have the courage to come forward and evil will continue in your name as an american if you work for the government in any capacity in over wrongdoing please have the courage to bring it to wipe we the people at least those of us who believe in the american ideals of honest transparent and accountable government will always have your back that's our show thanks for tuning into adam and versus the man please check out adam vs the man dot com to vote on guests and topics and find me on facebook and twitter as always you can e-mail me at adam adam vs the man dot com you can get this broadcast live as it airs at. usa and on you tube this is adam focus from washington d.c. one warrior for truth behind.