just a moment with more coverage. we . need well. we have the. safe to grab. your freedom. by guys welcome michel ancel on the alona show part of our guests not to sound the topics now i want to hear audio has gone to you tube to video response so far to twitter for part of the question that we post on you tube every monday and on

thursday the show the long response is. big. for sick sick sick sick sick sick sick . you know sometimes you see a story and seek so. you think you understand it and then you did something else here's some other part of it and realize that everything you say.

all right we're back to the last portion of our discussions tonight regarding the death of osama bin laden and i'm so joined by matthew dust policy analyst and director of middle east progress at the frontrunner for american progress and jordan secular director of international operations for the american center for law and justice now gentlemen i want to take a look at what's going on right now around the world if you look at the middle east you look at north african nations you look at the revolutions in tunisia and egypt and of course on one hand we hear so many cries of support for democracy here in the u.s. and then of course there is the fear that who's going to take over is going to be the muslim brotherhood if we arm the libyan rebels as well how many of them are all so what direction do you think that could go we do continue to see revolutions moves towards what may or may not be democracy at some point how's that going to play out for the u.s. are they going to remember osama bin ladin and remember our war on terror and our

detainees at guantanamo bay and it's going to backfire and i think it's clear that also did a lot in stalking more generally has drawn superficially in the middle east i mean it was very little evidence of any support for their ideology. these demonstrators who were kind of talking much more in a patriotic language the language of democracy and freedom but i think our policy was over the last ten years after nine eleven really haven't done us a lot of friends in the middle east i think that was president bush's freedom agenda which he promulgated and then kind of backed away from in the wake of the hamas is very. in the west bank and the muslim brotherhood victory in egyptian elections so i think we have an opportunity now to really try again and i think president obama has made some steps towards supporting the demonstrators and supporting reform but our relationships with a number of these different countries so they're complicated so i'm not going to get you know who actually you know cry the killing of us out of

a lot of prime minister of the gaza strip called the warrior and you know just signed a new agreement with the palestinians or with fatah in cairo that would not have happened probably if you were part was there you know alone that i was on your show praising the young people taking the streets in egypt so just want to point out that that's a new relationship to watch that hamas is in cairo that hamas is signing agreements in cairo and then today when there's some attention on them and islamic terrorism they start praising bin laden which doesn't you know make for doesn't make people i have a good feeling about how that really should move forward for the united states or israel has one thing for them to start attacking israel it's another when you praise bin laden who is actually an enemy of the united states who's got thousands of americans blood on his hands so does that mean that. that along that line of american presidents that never get anywhere when it comes to well no i think we are in a radically different situation now that's not to say that democracy is going to democracy is going to spring up tomorrow but i think that we're clearly on

a course and this could go a number of different ways i think tunisia is in a much more positive place i think egypt is that more complicated we've got the muslim brotherhood which is very well organized and it seems to have been established a sort of alliance with the military we've got syria which is probably the most complicated situation we've got right now but i think the bottom line is here we this is a time for really radically rethinking america's relationships with the peoples of this region not with the regimes not with the governments because i think when you say that yes it's true hosni mubarak would not have come sort of the deal between hamas and fatah but the fact is we now have a government in egypt that is not going to so rigidly enforced the. red lines of the united states i wonder if the people of these nations are going to be able to so radically rethink the way that they look at american foreign policy i hope i hope we do that by getting behind young people. if you can force me to feel that in egypt to an extent that they were really driving these protest movements using social media and boom we say well we're going to support elections in six months and that's going to spell probably no good news for those young people or for

america and the second thing is that i do think this is an opportune president obama hit on it last night that for the most of the world to kind of say other than that you know it's. in the gaza strip to say you know what you know somebody wants a bad guy he's bad muslim we don't like calling mosul and we're not going to cause some major uproar is maybe in some areas where he was more popular but outside of you know afghanistan pakistan people are going to say yeah you know he's a bad guys and bad terrorist we're glad the united states killed him let's move on and i hope that happens but all of this still remains to be said can we hope for any quicker movement when it comes to withdraw from afghanistan now that we got the bad guy that we supposedly went into afghanistan to get who turned out to be in pakistan how do you still explain a presence of one hundred thousand troops to afghanistan i mean karzai of course came out today and used this news is a reason to say that it's not terrorism doesn't live right here in afghanistan that you need to go it doesn't live in the houses that you rate at night you know or the

civilians that suffer i think there's clearly been a disagreement the tension was that of obama's administration over how we're proceeding in afghanistan whether the benefits to staying there and investing all these resources all this money all this attention justifies building isn't this the perfect moment to then for him to take charge for him to get out or before as you know it's crazy if you want to find out just right at the moment that osama bin laden's killed and then another radical elements of the taliban's take power start killing women you know i don't think that something could visual for the united states to do and that would that would just be a new jerk reaction is it a symbol that we can. start moving forward i hope so i think all americans hope so conservatives and liberals and everybody else in between but to just say ok now we're done because we kill this guy in pakistan would be a dereliction of duty you know and it's been it's been clear for a while that the mission in afghanistan has been detached from the mission against al qaeda and bin laden for some time that's not the same word with the goals are admirable of creating in afghanistan sure women are not of use for little girls can

go to school the question is what can we really achieve and i think there are people who've been looking at this a little bit more a little bit harder nosed way the administration i think the fact that we've got a lot now gives them a bit more of a boost in these debates well in the meantime it's been nearly ten years and that why it doesn't seem like we've. achieved all that much yeah i just want to ask one last question she was last night when this is going on a lot of people are saying that this means that obama has now sealed the deal when it comes to twenty twelve this is makes him an instant shoo in he's a winner because he got the number one bad guys that i would say that if i got a phone call today for some poll about my approval barack obama i probably say yes to and i'm not your family yeah yeah yeah i say. yeah i think that's the right thing i think our president stayed on course that he's been criticized by it from the left stayed on course got bin laden it's exciting it's a great day for america and i think if you get a day the election will probably be more about the economy because it's been a while and though this is important time right now if the economy turns out to be

bad a year and a half from now it's going to be still tough but are americans finally going to get that the economy and perhaps our war in afghanistan are linked i think clearly i think i would agree with gordon that the economy's going to be the main issue whether people are getting jobs or the making to put food on the table that's what's going to drive the election but i think getting done a lot now and i and i and i would disagree a little bit i think there was a clear shift in the focus away from afghanistan and focusing on putting pressure on al qaeda and generating the sort of intelligence that led to getting bin laden now but what this does i think at the very least is just a visceral claim little by obama is weak that he's indecisive. because this came about yesterday because getting into killing was floated along because of decisions brought obama made and that's the truth our age and i have to wrap it up i want to thank you very much for joining me tonight is definitely it's a big moment for the u.s. ten years in almost. nine eleven osama bin laden has been killed so i do want to see some pictures because i feel like that's going to make me feel good and that is

going to make me satisfied. i don't love the fact that he was hanging out in a mansion we entire time i don't think anybody should for themselves and think that this means that our war on terror is over or that we're going to get any of our civil liberties back but it would be nice to at least hear more people you know make those calls when we only do go for the twelve election thank you very much. and also a consonant we're going to call up the mainstream media for a few mistakes that they made while covering the osama bin ladin story that's why it's called time and it's monday and this week we're going to start bringing you a happy hour i've been so it so tonight we're going to discuss the killing of osama bin ladin in terms of the media what argue for his release the capital and not welsh editor in chief of reason magazine. we.

will be. safe. hey guys welcome to shell and tell on the on the show we've heard our guests have to say on the topic now i want to hear audio just go on to you tube video response our twitter profile of the questions that we've posted on you tube every monday and on thursday the show long response is.

you know somebody should see the story and it seems so poorly pleat you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here's some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't. charge the big picture.

are you guys it's time for tonight's a tool time award and i want to tell you it goes to the mainstream media the news broke last night the president obama is going to address the nation real that osama bin laden was dead all the networks and local news stations they started to scramble for a few hours the news media tried to inform the world a good line had been killed by navy seals in pakistan but during that time period the media became so for a little bit sloppy with their reporting take a look at this from the local fox station in washington d.c. . president obama speaking from the east room of the white house telling the nation and the world president obama is in fact did it was a u.s. led strategic i'm sorry some of it lot of instead of strategic cooperation oh oh. yes president obama has been killed thomas had a little slip of the tongue on live t.v. but it is something that happens to all of us at one point or another but then the confusion between osama and obama also caused problems for the local fox station in

sacramento california their graphic read reports obama bin ladin day and i was local media so you would hope you would expect the major t.v. networks would do a better job but yes again fox news made this mistake numerous times. if that were the case. yeah yeah it. i guess would be that would make a difference we feel like it is their little book about obama's that i don't care or there's trouble bin laden is dead. oh god her although should never be allowed to anchor during breaking news coverage i thought that was something that we all knew at this point but when it comes to the story being posted online you would expect those errors to correct themselves wrong again take a look at the headline from the a.b.c. news website they had two errors one read a.b.c. news special report reaction to obama bin laden's death and they also have sources

tells a.b.c.'s news jon karl that obama will be buried at sea the folks over the b.b.c. also got the terrorist leader confused with the leader of the free world he created a special section for to cover the death of obama now on twitter and he sees norah o'donnell also got her obama names confused she tweeted that obama had been shot and killed her jim but jim had tweeted that osama was shot and killed. so those are just a few of the errors of the media made during the breaking news coverage and yes it's breaking news mistakes happen but this was a really bad time to make your ss and your be very all the recent budget cuts i think i mean that a lot of the t.v. networks decided that their copy of theirs were a job position that could be cut back and that's why the mainstream media is tonight's tool time when her purse screwing up the osama bin ladin story with really really down the sikhs.

artist time for showing talents night's program last time we told you the mega search engine google is stepping in when it comes to patrolling for piracy are removing questionable sites from search results but this is an issue that search engines are really taking on themselves we wanted to know if you thought that this if this is a problem excuse me the google should be addressing so let's go to producer patrice in a sense to find out what you had to say if you already don't know a bit torrent is a protocol used to transfer files so with a method to pirate other people's stuff ok wait a minute if i were to say bit torrent three times really fast would i disappear from the internet or what if i posted my grandmother's copyrighted recipe for a pill or cheesecake to the side if she complained does that mean that google would take the side off of its ins and search ok it may not be as serious as

a copyrighted song but a copyright is a copyright right so where do you draw that line after google made certain words related to piracy sides disappear from their instant search we want to know if you've got search engines should be able to censor piracy sites from their search results alpha told us on facebook no they shouldn't censor however if they plan on continuing the censorship there is plenty of other search engines out there alex hunter nero's says google has a social obligation not to censor whatever it wants it's a matter of ethics but george disagree he says google should you would ever google wants provided google doesn't disguise its intentions and is a lawful well george i guess you didn't notice while google banned bit torrent it allowed a bit torrent client in china to remain that company was called shanley which google. owns a four percent interest stand so so much for good intentions of that's what happens

when you let a company the size of google do whatever google wants to do. so is google protecting copyrights or school protecting its own interests what will happen if search engine start censoring whatever they feel like and when the government starts telling them what sites they want to shut down what a mess maybe some things are just better left alone as news she told us on you tube with her or not search engines should censor sites specializing in piracy is a difficult question to answer because no matter what sanjay take people always find a way to pirate things. if you have something to say let's hear it right here. all banks the trees so now here's our next topic of discussion for you would help discuss the depth of the impact of the killing of osama bin laden has had for people in the u.s. and around the world and president obama's line i pose in today's news justice has been served we want to know what you think so give us your thoughts do you think

that justice has been served with the death of osama bin ladin you can respond to us on facebook twitter and you tube and who knows your response just might make it on air. all right so this week we're doing something new we've just been enjoying happy hour so much that we had friday are enough now we're going to start doing it every single day joining me for how the happy hour tonight is our producer losing half an hour and that welsh either and sheet of reason magazine cheers thank you both for joining me this evening so let it think you know there's a reason to drink on monday and it's time we're going to close out with osama still i mean whatever just make it an hour today on the a lot of show i wish not. i wasn't i wasn't of i can spell last night when all this was happening i was really

just i don't know i was shocked by a look of objects to position between the school old way that t.v. news was moving versus twitter you know i went on twitter and instantly obama's going to give a speech about something that's probably going to. have whereas if you're watching t.v. which is supposed to be the breaking news exciting coverage it was like it was like somebody was torturing me one minute you would be giving a speech that we're not sure about what it's not about libya than ten minutes later i found out maybe it's about osama bin laden twenty minutes later they can admit finally confirm that he's dead i mean it's incredible to me i think how quickly twitter moves in that sense which is so useful to i i mean. with a friend at dinner and you know nothing on the television we will check our phones really something huge just happening we end up making the guys turn on the t.v. in the restaurant and it's you know wolf blitzer sitting there saying something really big supposed to happen i can't tell you what but it's really big so make sure to tune in meanwhile we've got two seconds later on twitter i mean just tell me wolf i think it's on the twitter you tell me i think the whole evening was

a set up for obama to destroy the last vestiges of cable news anyone who sat in and watched that like excruciating hour of space filler t.v. it's just awful and wolf was saying you know i have my own suspicions i really do i have my ideas and thoughts but i'm not going to tell you because i am responsible and you go to the next station and john king is where you clearly if you look at me with i don't know i wonder why obama had to do this on a sunday night i you know it was already way almost eleven thirty very high israel to some fight against evil generally may have the white house correspondents' dinner when celebrities are and how this is the one weekend when literally everybody in the press corps is just hammered and they're really in the white house press corps has had to leave put on rights of the day is finished and nothing's going to happen after two o'clock so you get to see what happens during those little moments of time for the white house press corps to get the drunk that was all that he did that day that letter to the interview with c.n.n. about his historic experience last night about how he was interrupted in the middle

of the caps game to go down to the studio and talk about i got to put on the powder by himself because i'm a complete he was going us all proud of and he's like i got an e-mail from the white house officials saying that you were very responsible clinton congratulating you for that thanks buddy you're being preempted by the entire social media that we're you know i guess you got to stay in and i think to get to you're going to get your points every members of time for love like we all do just sort of sitting in bed in the catatonic state and the cable networks or the wonderful shot at least that's how i remember it i want to go back and look now almost but it was a true moment for cable news in many ways i missed n.b.c. was on ashley banfield you know one of the. they were phenomenal moments and now we sort of see how much further we have gone and there's no way that we would take a breaking news thing without just obsessive lee clicking on twitter and learning so much more than we would ever know. it also says something to the failure i think of mainstream media coverage at the time and yes i understand we don't have a lot of information the sort of have to sit there and speculate but the jingoism

and the america patriotic talk that was coming out from c.n.n. and from fox news imus and you see i mean we're going to be a lot more of what we saw in the ramp up to the war in iraq where you know it was all let's get ourselves on the shoulders and not ask the bigger questions about what this actually means for the war on terror what this means for the erosion of civil liberties and a lot of the the things that your previous segment talked about and i thought that was a huge failure i mean i felt that i needed to go to twitter to find other sources of information because everyone was busy and i just plastering there trying to american flags on the networks and sort of focusing on the wrong without the questions well it wasn't just the media that was doing that in fact if you went to the white house last night there were it was crazy i live a couple of blocks away so i decided to check it out and there were people sprinting down the streets holding american flags everyone is screaming every car is doing the honking thing and i got down there and there are thousands of people most of whom i also think were drunk and just kind of trickled over from the caps game a lot of college students but everyone seeming you know usa usa god bless america i

think that we might even have a clip here so it's take a look. in the. car that was new york and washington d.c. what do you think i mean our so we obviously osama bin ladin is enemy number one of the united states but is it cool to go out and run around and scream usa usa and be happy when someone dies i mean i don't want to be the old fart in the room you know same them going. to be fair to those twenty one year olds among us they've lived through one of the crappiest decades in a long long time i mean it's just been this lousy depressing economy sucks and except and this shadow was hung over everything and people their age they've known have gone off to war it's not been nice in

a way they're blowing off steam but just on a personal level for me i get more euphoric when we see tens of millions of people get liberated from so tell us harriet tyranny rather necessarily than one guy get both about well if you think i mean let's say maybe one day our war in iraq or a war and out to get a stand we're to actually end are we going to see the same amount of people coming out on the streets and screaming and being happy or is that going to be like no one moment kind of thing that you know i mean the beauty of events like this whether it's just symbolic or not is that yes it does allow the country to rally around some sort of point and unite but what i personally saw in my experience sitting in for the white house was that it was not so much people getting together and rallying around some sort of monumental achievement it was a bunch of drunk literally drunk kids i mean i saw santa guy running around with an open bottle of alcohol you know they had these little kids who were running climbing up a little pole and the crowd would go from chanting usa usa to jump jump jump jump jump so i don't know how much logical thinking there was ok it's fair to say that

the kids they were in the white house were just as drunk as everybody on the media last night or especially john king john. lastly there is already a movie in the works and this is actually this is by kathryn bigelow who did the hurt locker and it's about killing bin ladin and not about this specific you know it leads to went after him actually got the job done but it was from a couple years ago when they were still trying to get him in afghanistan do you think this is just going to be now a number one hit was supposed to be the bad ending movie right where they didn't get bin laden suddenly they had their little hollywood ending serves them on a silver platter so you know it's a great hollywood they would supposed to do when they got to hollywood ending they didn't want to lie and that's horrible well there should better put the thing in the can pretty soon before the story starts to change i mean i don't want to sound like i'm too skeptical here but the family of tillman and just a lynch could tell you a thing or two about stories that sound wonderful and patriotic the first time around and then in the light of day when you actually learn about events they start to look a little bit different and the implications are brought to i mean is it really

going to be a great p.r. move for the united states to come out with some sort of hollywood jingoistic film trumpeting the targeted assassination of someone who we can all agree is a bad guy but still got us really a legal move i mean i just i don't know about how this is actually going to play out a product that's a good start well whatever if it gets done maybe all kind of fun to be the guy that needs a salad with a lot of just the right do you think of those guys going over twenty five million could actually kill them i think i hope so i'm so right i did learn their names fortunately thank you for joining me on our no monday happy hour this is going to get really dangerous have a feeling was that i'll be better if you are that's it for tonight's show thanks for tuning in make sure that you can back tomorrow and have the latest developments on osama bin laden's death and jim hansen all of that happy hour in the meantime don't forget to become a fan of the lower show on facebook and follow us on twitter and if you missed any of the nights for any other nights you can always catch it all the you tube dot com slash the on the show. as well as the show anything tired you know next year out of

versus the. we are going to break the legs and the rug be the one well the legs. we're never going to move says he's heard him say fellow braddy and the freedom. hey guys welcome to shelly's tell me about a show we've heard are just not the sound the topics now i want to hear audiences

has gone to you tube the video response card to twitter profile of the question that we've hosts on you tube every monday and on the first day of the show the song response is going to leave your voice make up. for the first few. feet to. the sun. it also gives you a story and it seems so for like sleep is if you understand it and then you've lived something else here's you some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry comes the big picture.