minefield. with the palm of your. comb. hello i'm tom arbonne in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture america's number one public enemy is dead with osama bin laden eliminated from our most wanted list we still need to remain a war in the middle east plus the g.o.p. initially praised president obama for his accomplishment of capturing bin laden killing him but that didn't last long now they're giving credit to george bush and his former torture tactics which actually delayed our getting bin lot and sadly

enough it's gone from earth to duffers even with confirmation from the white house many are still doubting the doubt that will solve a lot so this drag out into a demand of a corpse reveal. you need to know this bin laden is dead so will our next will our foreign wars be next as in to die to stop more and more democratic lawmakers are lining up to say yeah it's time to get out of afghanistan august and barney frank said the single biggest reason we went into afghanistan was to get osama bin laden having killed osama bin laden deprives people who wanted to stay in afghanistan for other reasons of the argument that we would be leaving in defeat. it was the republicans can't use it

against the president right now congressman jerrold nadler from the york so we accomplished what we had to do in afghanistan a long time ago we had to stop wasting our troops our money and our lives and get out and chairman of the senate armed services committee carl levin advocated for a troop drawdown in afghanistan by saying afghans are now in an even better position to take responsibility because whatever direction it's coming from pakistan from that safe haven no longer has guidance whatever strength bin laden's presence or direction could give to even republicans around congressman jason chaffetz acknowledged that finding bin laden proves that we don't need one hundred thousand people on the ground in afghanistan they're republican cliff stearns from florida simply said now that bin laden has been executed we must go home owner's thoughts the white house and pentagon so that they're sticking to the withdrawal timeline that they've laid out the past and then an immediate end to the war is not on the table however according to that timeline the first drawdown of troops in

afghanistan is scheduled for july. so now the bin ladin is dead is it possible that president obama will use that first drawdown date to remove a considerable number of troops from afghanistan effectively ending our full scale military operation after all what exactly is our mission now especially given that the initial invasion of afghanistan could have been avoided and millions not died and bush decided to take up on his offer to arrest him. here to offer his take on this is your effort best to get a journalist historian specializing in u.s. national security policy welcome. great to have you with us. did the taliban offer to turn the loddon over to the bush administration i think there's no question that they did they were already trying to get some way of getting rid of bin laden even before nine eleven but it was a very complicated matter for one thing it was difficult to find countries like

saudi arabia who would take them and i think once nine eleven happened it's very clear that they began to be more intensely interested in trying to make a deal to get rid of bin laden and what happened then after the americans began the bombing of afghanistan on october seventh two thousand and one they changed their policy previously they demanded proof from the united states that bin laden was involved in nine eleven they dropped that condition and they offered to have the organization of islamic conference the oh i see which is a moderate international organization representing all islamic countries based in saudi arabia to take bin laden have him be tried for the nine eleven terror attacks which would have been in many ways much better for than the united states getting bin laden trying to do something with been love themselves because would have more credibility bush said no thanks no negotiations of any kind with the taliban and.

it was a huge mistake because he had no other plan for catching bin laden there was nothing good on the books at effect in two thousand and five he shut down the operation that bill clinton started ninety six. i want to call it eric that's not the name of the trail went cold we know that they didn't have any you know you well but i mean but i mean the cia had this division that was doing this in fact i interviewed sandy berger right after the transition and he said that he told condi rice that her biggest job was going to be getting osama bin laden and that from his own personal knowledge he knew that al gore had told dick cheney and that bill clinton told her to bush the same thing look up in lodz county and that all three of them had basically laughed and say had you no interest whatsoever it is not an issue that we care about because the clinton administration is obsessing on this you know and berger implied that the that the clinton ministration had actually been

negotiating with afghanistan to take possession of bin laden particularly after the time when he tried to kill him with the with the cruise missiles in there and and newt gingrich were on the floor of the house and said he's just trying to deflect attention from monica lewinsky this is right the dog and then afterwards of course and he went off to work it up with his girlfriend though we don't know we know that this was a serious offer that in fact i interviewed the former taliban foreign minister to work kill him in kabul last year for the first time he laid out exactly what their proposal was it was reported in vague terms in the press at the time so the russian pows were similar firms and he finally confirmed to me last year so and this was specific to the bush administration did that go back to the clinton was this was this was a new proposal that had a new second of the second proposal and it was clearly very urgent on their part to try to make a deal because of the bombing story what do you you know as as a reporter and as an observer what's your thought what are your thoughts on the

probability or possibility that now that mission. is accomplished even though obama didn't fly an aircraft carrier you know. that he may take this july drawdown date as an opportunity to say ok we're out of here i mean he's got he's got the president of the country right now i have no doubt to get out take advantage of this to draw down more troops than he probably would otherwise and that's the way the politics of this country work if you have something symbolically that gives you more room to maneuver you're going to use and i think he's interested in trying to get as many troops out as he feels he can politically but my concern is that the political elite in this country is still so completely focused so fixed on the idea that we have to keep troops there almost you know permanently they're talking really about having access to permanent bases in effect and keeping at least special operations forces there for many years into the future

and i think it's going to be very difficult for obama to stand up to that pressure at this point i think that's the real challenge so it will be pressure coming out of congress out of the congress three and the military and all of its allies are in a lot of books exactly that we were warned about do you think after the two thousand and fourteen election he might feel liberated and do something well it's possible but i think that or the two thousand and twelve power the power of the military and its own allies is such in my view that even after the president is newly elected he still has to accommodate the interests of the military because he feels that they dispose of so much power politically they have so many ways to get at the president politically that he doesn't really have a choice that's been the pattern up to eisenhower was right eisenhower was right he just didn't go far enough yeah or fast enough the principal here thanks so much for being with us the rest of your great talking. a lot of us hope that the death of osama bin laden will bring about peace this n.p.r.

cartoon the ran this morning portrays the more likely story. let's hope president obama doesn't repeat the mistakes of george w. bush but there's a bigger picture here and that's focused on the war itself when laden is dead today not because of a war but because of a covert intelligence operation a police operation if you will president obama didn't need to invade pakistan on sunday to kill bin laden as for our military invasions afghanistan and iraq every accomplishment of it are we any closer to realizing bush's dream of a world without islamic extremism actually no we're not if anything it's the opposite which means the question must be raised does war work or just peace work we've seen peaceful efforts throughout history even right here in america with the civil rights and right now in the middle east in tunisia egypt achieved far more than work it ever hoped to do so so the time to put our world machines in the cause of her good joining me now to offer some insight on this issue is joe madison host

of the joe madison show on sirius x.m. satellite radio has weekdays six to ten am eastern time on channel one sixty nine joe welcome the one from the soon to be one twenty that's right now it's a big change if you change and change into tomorrow great to have you with us and you can be the power of peace you know you and i and in our lifetimes have seen two major peace movements the anti vietnam war movement which started out with some higher ideals i think it didn't didn't hold it didn't have a martin luther king type leader and the civil rights movement which very much did . what. if you could look back over that what what what are the lessons for people who didn't live through that. and which would include the president and the that we can won't learn when i feel of. the transformation that bent police. i always go back to

a speech that dr king a i believe it was a christmas each and canada to a group of young college student. and in paraphrasing him he in essence a war now is the ultimate we live in a in a church where it's a question now of war being fought where. it could mean the end of humankind. because of the weapons that so many countries possess and then of course you as you remember. we lived under this constant fear of our food our fear was the cuban missile crisis and in our reduction cover and duck and cover which meant. goodbye but the bottom line was a lot of people may remember we were

a hair trigger there from toto an owl asian this is what dr king talked about as i remember it is that war now means holdall an owl a ship of humankind and so nick i think people understand this sunday but nations have to understand this governments have to understand this and that's where the real battle comes the vietnam war was changed because people took to the streets mostly in a nonviolent way transformation took place the civil rights movement transform america in and in for the most part and the non violent way we certainly saw spatters of violence but for the most part we didn't have to fight a civil war to bring about the transformation of this country and if we were all of

africa talking about when the getting of urban legend nineteen twenty and it was a long protracted and nonviolent movement bring that about for example and it all as you know it always begins with with people people who recognize that we are the government we are the problem and and so but i heard you speaking in the last segment about should we be. out of afghanistan president obama is a political animal every day he meets with his military and security advisors civilian and military but what he will have to see in order to i think withdraw from afghanistan we will have to look out the window of the white house and see what richard nixon's are and that's hundreds of thousands of people who are

saying in the war now quite candidly that's what it's going to take because then we will we will have transformed his thinking. and he's a political animal and i'm certain he'll be looking at his advisors and saying well done no there's an economic interest i know there's a military and tristan you know there's a military industrial complex but i've got to get reelected and it's hundreds of thousands of two hundred thousand you know we could easily see an opera where a million people can come to washington and say in the war look we saw a transformation we've seen chance from ancient of it least egypt in our lifetime who would have ever thought that that type of transformation would take place so don't think it can't happen here in the united states matter of fact to be quite candid what motivated me of the people in egypt if you remember plant was the civil

rights movement led by dr king where they had. publications that they had read in the form i believe of comic books that really spurred the interest of a lot of young people and what did we see after obama. after have been one hundred was killed who took to the streets it was not our generation was young people because a million of them that were because when they were twelve. they have and now they're in college now they're young adults they have lived with this boogie man and then. all through their childhood into their adulthood like you and i did with the like we'd be with the vietnam war like we did with the plane and they were happy to see that this bogeyman is gone and i think that will be what will spur.

him withdrawing from afghanistan we cannot be nation builders we will look like the british empire when they were trying to be the empire that the sun never sent and we can't be in the nation building or if it's wise who we need to build our own well if you're going to be you know you're right take care of home first absolutely joe thanks for being with us it's always great to see you joe madison i'll have more on war and peace and so that state. it's time for our daily poll your chance to sell us why you think here's today's question now the bin laden's life isn't it well our foreign wars also becoming what are your choices are yes that are violent people of egypt and tunisia are showing the way or no will keep on obsessing on fear and war so far over ninety percent of you voted no pretty ground a lot of time are going to carlos and what you think the poll be open. coming up

even though he's retired to living the good life in his gated community home in dallas george w. bush is receiving praise for the killing of osama bin laden and event that happened under president obama's watch details coming up on the wire right wingers believe falsely that torture played a key role in the killing of benoit's. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right here. i think rock from a beautiful morning well. whenever

the government says libya keep you safe get ready because you get their freedom. you know sometimes you see the story and the scene so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some of the part of it and realized everything you saw. i'm sorry the big picture.

now that we got bin ladin it's fine to give credit where credit's due like which were to be pushed that's right the right wingers were quick to start lavishing praise for former president bush even though he's been sitting down is bought and a gated community for the last two years and openly admitted back in two thousand and six that he was no i concerned about finding bin ladin. the idea of focusing on one person is. really in the case to me people don't understand

the scope of the mission. and care is bigger than one person so i don't know where he is you know i just don't spend much time on really be honest with you i'm a more yeah the guy we should thank a lot of right wingers from karl rove to paul wolfowitz the congressman steve king had been alleging that we found a lot of banks to torture techniques used by george w. bush however even secretary of defense donald rumsfeld disagrees he said some information that came from normal interrogation approaches or guantanamo did lead to information it was beneficial in the system but it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding. also chair the senate intelligence committee dianne feinstein said this today. indications that. the information was gained by the harsh interrogation program of the cia what do you know it was was it a product of waterboarding that kind of process to date. the answer to your

question is no nothing and white house deputy national security adviser john brennan went on the record this morning to also knock down the myth that waterboarding provided any intelligence that led to the location of osama bin laden and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or a role in actually getting the information that was in finding bin laden is not the case. so does bush really deserve any credit or is this just right wing nonsense alex sites wall is a reporter and blogger with think progress and joins me now alex welcome thanks for having me you've been looking into this digging into this checking this thing out does bush really deserve any credit i mean this is nothing more than an effort to relive again the failed bush legacy you know obama had this huge national security victory and just like we've seen in other instances of major national security incidents under obama bush apologists and conservatives are going to use this to

a you know try to legitimize which is the legacy and to try to attack obama i mean you know i think the cia the military i think a lot of the intelligence complex deserves a great deal of credit for things that happened under bush's watch but the bottom line is bush basically turned his back on trying to find osama bin laden as the clip you just played said he basically said he wasn't interested and there are numerous quotes in his own words where he says i'm not that interested in hunting bin laden were the right wingers so you know when bush said that what he was trying to do was marginalise been logs so that he wouldn't be as effective as a recruiting poster around the world but i think the reason he's trying to marginalize it is because he was unable to find him and bush is trying to build up this war in iraq and you can see direct instances in which resources were being diverted from hunting bin ladin in afghanistan and the tribal regions in pakistan to iraq for example their army delta units that were transferred from the bin ladin

unit to iraq to hunt for al. units in iraq and in two thousand and five bush quietly close the cia's bin laden unit this is the unit that was dedicated specifically to hunting and not in because there were intelligence needs for iraq and so he had to switch resources so i think a lot of that rhetoric about you know saying that bush was doing this intentionally asserted sort of some kind of grand scheme was to cover up this huge embarrassment of not being able to find him because you just wasn't resourcing it properly i mean tora bora is the key instance here this is in two thousand and one right after the invasion we had bin laden in our grasp he was wounded he was on the run and there's about one hundred american commandos and they kept asking for reinforcements the they made repeated requests for reinforcements a thousand marines to walk off the exits block up the exits into pakistan there were american sniper teams helicopters mobile units and they were p. to be denied by general tommy franks who was the commander on the ground and this went all the way up to donald rumsfeld who was the secretary of defense and presumably to the white house to make this kind of major decision and in doing that

made a lot of thought he was dead he wrote his last will and testament but in not pursuing him aggressively they let these you know untrained afghan militias go after him they let bin laden escape into pakistan and into history and until sunday it was and that's pretty incredible. at a tribute to the troops rally i'm assuming she got one hundred thousand dollars speaking. in colorado last night thanked bush for all his efforts she wouldn't say the name president obama she wouldn't say his name to lose. yet. and remember yeah me. and we. already have. i ok so we know that for example the reagan presidency was by and large a failed presidency had more people going to prison than any other president after

george washington. it was the most corrupt administration history of the iran contra scandals he had two major recessions one was worse than anything we've seen except the great depression. he ran on this massive deficit he cut taxes on billionaires raise taxes on working people levon times the only president is st ever ever done that and they spent a few hundred million dollars in the intervening twenty some odd years and completely reinvented as history is this speech pail on and all of this speechifying is going on by all these right wing talking heads on fox and frankly on any channel they can get their heads on their faces on is this part of the same kind of concerted effort i mean there actually was a project called the reagan legacy project that was funded by some of the same people who are funding today's tea party yeah absolutely i think that's that's exactly what's going on there's a similar project called the roosevelt room to you know bolster bush's legacy and it's just unbelievable to watch these contortions that you see the roosevelt the

roosevelt room is the room in the in the west wing and if somebody were to see these curtains eric cantor the house majority leader yesterday put out a statement praising president bush and kind of throwing in a little mention of obama at the end i mean palin is the most extreme example but it's just taking this to its logical conclusion which is to you know not credit obama for something that he did on his watch and to try to you know put it on bush and i think a lot of it as as you're sort of mentioned was to try to. balance these enhanced interrogation like torture i mean it's like with reagan they say he brought down the soviet union the so he fell on george herbert walker bush was administration right i mean somehow everybody in america has amnesia about that right and these you know that the pieces of intelligence some were collected you know in two thousand fourteen thousand five but the bigger policy questions you know the cia the agents were doing their job under whatever president would matter to them but the bigger policy questions of how are you resourcing you know are america's action

. creatures are you resourcing the hunt for bin laden which simply didn't do that and obama recommitted was one of the first things that he that he did when he appointed panetta to be director of the cia he said we're going to go after him out and and also the bush roof said that he wouldn't go into pakistan if bin laden was was found to be there he wouldn't need permission john mccain's of this and john mccain and mitt romney exactly will start going to pakistan but even to be there it really was alex thanks for the great they sort of you're doing it over think progress every chance bush had an apple solid in law he screwed up so claiming that he deserves credit now that president obama did what he could do never do is just absurd the truth is the only reason bin laden is no longer around is because bush is bad ideas no longer live at the white house. crazy alert

a middle school teacher in the state of washington has fulfilled his end of the bargain back in two thousand and one yuri well of he would not shave his beard until some of bin laden was captured now after nearly three thousand five hundred days of hair growth well is finally busting out the razor which is a good thing as well as beard was about the same length as osama's same hood grain color too and it was only a matter of time before it caught the eye of the death or would undoubtedly use it to claim that bin ladin was in fact still alive and teaching fifth grade at a middle school in a washington. coming up if you're insured with united health care you may be entitled to a large settlement excuse me maybe not after the break how your premiums contributed to the highest paid c.e.o. in the nation stephen j. hemsley of united healthcare.

let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right. i think. even on the well. we have the government says the keep you safe get ready because you have freedom. you know sometimes see a story and.