more news today violence has once again flared up. these are the images and seeing from the streets of canada. showing hope for asians rule today. well i'm john martin in washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture america's number one public enemy is dead with osama bin laden eliminated from our most wanted list we still need to remain a war in the middle east plus the g.o.p. initially praised president obama for his accomplishment of capturing bin laden killing him that didn't last long either giving credit to george bush and his former torture tactics which actually delayed our getting been lost and sadly

enough it's gone from birth to death or worse even with confirmation from the white house many are still doubting the doubt that will solve a lot so it was dragged out into a demand of a corpse reveal. you need to know this bin laden is depp so will our next will our foreign wars be next as in to die to stop more and more democratic lawmakers are lining up to say yeah it's time to get out of afghanistan congressman barney frank said the single biggest reason we went into afghanistan was to get osama bin laden at in kill osama bin laden deprives people who wanted to stay in afghanistan for other reasons of the argument that we would be leaving in defeat. it was the republicans can't use

it against the president right now congressman jerrold nadler from new york said we accomplished what we had to do in afghanistan a long time ago we had to stop wasting our troops and our money and our lives and get up and chairman of the senate armed services committee carl levin advocated for a troop drawdown in afghanistan by saying afghans are now in an even better position to take responsibility because whatever direction it's coming from pakistan from that safe haven no longer has guidance whatever strength and lines presence or direction could give to even republicans around congressman jason chaffetz acknowledged that finding bin laden proves that we don't need one hundred thousand people on the ground in afghanistan their public unclip stern some florida simply say now the bin laden has been executed we must go home enters the white house and pentagon so that they're sticking to the withdrawal timeline that they laid out the past and then an immediate end to the war is not on the table over according to that timeline the first drawdown of troops in afghanistan is scheduled

for july another bin laden is dead is a possible president obama will use that first drawdown date to remove a considerable number of troops from afghanistan effectively ending our full scale military operation but what exactly is our mission now especially given that the initial invasion of afghanistan could have been avoided and millions not died at bush decided to take omar up on his offer to arrest been lower. here are for his take on this is your authority vested journalist and historian specializing in u.s. national security policy gareth welcome to me great to have you with us. did the taliban offer to turn in loddon over to the bush administration i think there's no question that they did they were already trying to get some way of getting rid of bin laden even before nine eleven but it was a very complicated matter for one thing it was difficult to find countries like

saudi arabia who would take them out and i think once nine eleven happened it's very clear that they began to be more intensely interested in trying to make a deal to get rid of bin laden and what happened then after the americans began the bombing of afghanistan on october seventh two thousand and one they changed their policy previously they demanded proof from the united states that bin laden was involved in nine eleven they dropped that condition and they offered to have the organization of islamic conference the oh i see which is a moderate international organization representing all islamic countries based in saudi arabia to take bin laden and have him be tried for the nine eleven terror attacks which would have been in many ways much better for the united states getting bin laden trying to do something with been love themselves because would have more credibility bush said no thanks no negotiations of any kind with the

taliban and that was a huge mistake because he had no other plan for catching bin laden there was nothing on the books at effect in two thousand and five he shut down the operation that bill clinton started ninety six. on a college eric that's not the name of the trail went cold we know that they didn't have any idea what i mean but i mean the cia had this deficient that was doing this in fact i interviewed sandy berger right after the trans. and he said that he told condi rice that her biggest job was going to be getting osama bin laden and the from his own personal knowledge he knew that al gore had told dick cheney and that bill clinton told first of the bush the same thing look out bin laden's coming and that all three of them had basically laughed and say had you no interest whatsoever it was not an issue that we care about because the clinton ministration is obsessing on this you know and berger implied that the that the clinton administration had actually been negotiating with afghanistan to take possession of

bin laden particularly after the time when he tried to kill him with the with the cruise missiles in there and the new cambridge one on the floor of the house and said he's just trying to deflect attention from monica lewinsky this is way the dog and then afterwards of course and it went off to. repeat it up with his girlfriend but we don't we know that this was a serious offer in fact i interviewed the former taliban foreign minister to work you in kabul last year for the first time he laid out exactly what their proposal was it was reported in vague terms in the press at the time so the person opposed to several other firms and he finally confirmed to me last year or so and this was specific to the bush administration did that go back to the clinton has this was this was a new proposal that had to get the second proposal and it was clearly very urgent on their part to try to make a deal because of the bombing story what do you you know as a as a reporter and as an observer what's your thought what are your thoughts on the

probability or possibility that now the mission is accomplished even though obama didn't fly an aircraft carrier you know. that he may take this july drawdown date as an opportunity to say ok we're out of here i mean he's got he's got the president of the country right now i have no doubt to get out take advantage of this to draw down more troops than he probably would otherwise and that's the way the politics of this conflict work if you have some. i think symbolically bill gives you more room to maneuver you're going to use it i think he's interested in trying to get as many troops out as he feels he can politically put my concern is that the political lead in this country is still so completely focused so fixed on the idea that we have to keep troops there almost you know permanently we're talking really about having access to permanent bases in fact and keeping at least special operations forces there for many years into the future and i think it's going to be very difficult for obama to stand up to that pressure at

this point i think that's the real challenge so it'll be pressure coming out of congress out of the law congress three and the military and all of its allies are you know law books exactly that we were worried about do you think after the two thousand and fourteen election he might feel liberated and do something. it's possible but i think that or that she doesn't quite follow the power the power of the military and its allies is such in my view that even after the president is newly elected he still has to accommodate the interests of the military because he feels that they dispose of so much power politically they have so many ways to get at the president politically but he doesn't really have a choice that's been the pattern up to eisenhower was right eisenhower was right he just didn't go far enough or fast enough for instance here thanks so much for being with the nice move there to create talking. a lot of us hope that the death of osama bin laden will bring about peace this n.p.r.

cartoon the ran this morning portrays the more likely story let's hope president obama doesn't repeat the mistakes of george w. bush but there's a bigger picture here and that's focused on the war itself. bin laden is dead today not because of a war but because of a covert intelligence operation a police operation if you will president obama didn't need to invade pakistan on sunday to kill bin lot as for a military invasion is afghanistan and iraq every accomplishment are we any closer to realizing bush's dream of a world without islamic extremism actually no we're not if anything it's the opposite which means the question must be raised does war work or just peace work we've seen peaceful efforts throughout history even right here in america civil rights and right on the middle east in tunisia in egypt achieve far more than work ever hope to do so so the time to put our war machines in the closet for good joining me now to offer some insight in this issue is joe madison goes to the joe

madison show on sirius x.m. satellite radio appears weekdays six to ten am eastern time on channel nine sixty nine joe welcome to some degree one twenty eight soon to be one twenty that's right nice big change if you change change into tomorrow great to have you with us you can be the power of peace you know you and i and in our lifetimes have seen two major peace movements the anti vietnam war movement which started out with some higher ideals i think and it didn't didn't hold it didn't have a martin luther king type leader and the civil rights movement which very much did . what. if you could look back over that what what what are the lessons for people who didn't live through that. and which would include the president and the we can learn we're ninth of. the transformation that took place. i always go back to

a speech that dr king gave i believe it was a christmas beach in canada to a group of young college teams. and paraphrasing here in essence war now is ultimate we live in a church where it's a question now of war being fought where it could mean the end of humankind. because of the weapons that so many countries possess and then of course you as you remember. we lived under this constant fear our fear our fear was the cuban missile crisis and or a duck and cover and a document which meant in bend over behind goodbye but but the bottom line was a lot of people may remember we were

a hair trigger there from total an hour and this is what dr king talked about as i remember is that war now means holdall an owl asian of humankind and so i think people understand this some do but nations have to understand this governments have to understand this and that's where the real battle comes the vietnam war was changed because people took to the streets mostly in a nonviolent way transformation took place the civil rights movement transform america. in and in for the most part in a non violent way we certainly saw spatters of violence but for the most part we didn't have to fight a civil war to bring about the transformation of this country and if we were all

that we could be talking about one and getting over the edge in nineteen twenty that was a long protracted and nonviolent movement to bring that about for example and it all as you know it always begins with with people people who recognize that we are the government we are the government and and so but i heard you speaking in the last segment about should we be out of afghanistan president obama is a political animal every day he meets with his military and security advisors civilian and military but what he will have to see in order to i think withdraw from afghanistan we will have to look out the window of the way house and see what richard nixon sought and that's hundreds of thousands of people who are

saying in the war now quite candidly that's what it's going to take because then we will we will have transformed his thinking. and he's a political animal and i am certain he'll be looking at his advisors and saying look i know there's an economic interest i know there's a military and tristan know there's a military industrial complex but i've got to get reelected and it's hundreds of thousands it's two hundred balance you know we could easily see an article where a million people can come to washington and say in the war look we saw a transformation we've seen transformation of. least egypt in our lifetime who would have ever thought that type of transformation would take place so don't think it can't happen here in the united states a matter of fact to be quite candid what motivated millions of people in egypt if

you remember tom it was the civil rights movement led by dr king where they had. publication that they had read in the form i believe of comic books that really spurred the interest of a lot of young people and what did we see after obama. after bin laden was killed who took to the streets it was not our generation was young people because a million of them were that way because when they were twelve. they haven't and now they're in college now they're young adults they have lived with this bogeyman been largely all through their childhood into their adulthood like you and i did with like we lived in the vietnam war like we did with the klan and they were happy to see that this movie man is gone and i think that will be what will spur.

him withdrawing from afghanistan we cannot be a nation building so we will look like the british empire when they were trying to be. the son amazon and we can't be in a nation building or of its allies who we need to build our own well if we're going to get you know you're right take care of home first absolutely joe thanks to you as always great to see you thank you joe madison i'll have more our war and peace and so that statement. it's time for a daily poll your chance to tell us what you think here's today's question now to bin laden's life is ended will our foreign wars also be coming to an end your choices are yes the nonviolent people of egypt and tunisia are showing the way or no will keep on obsessing on fear and war so far over ninety percent of you voted no for the ground log on to tom hartman dot com to let us know what you think the

poll be open until someone. coming out even though he's retired to living the good life in his gated community home in dallas george w. bush is receiving praise for the killing of osama bin laden and event that happened under president obama's watch details coming up why right wingers believe also that torture played a key role in the killing of bin lot. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right here in the uk. i think from a beautiful morning well. we

never got the says here good can you say get ready because of the freedom. you know sometimes you see the story and the scene so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here see some other part of it and realize everything you saw you don't i'm sorry welcome to the big picture.

now that we got bin ladin it's time to give credit where credit's due like which were to be pushed that's right the right wingers were quick to start lavishing praise for former president bush even though he's been sitting down as thought in a gated community for the last two years and openly admitted back in two thousand and six that he was no i concerned about pride and love. the idea of focusing on one person is. really indicates to me people don't understand

the scope of the mission. and terror is bigger than one person so i don't know where he is you know i just don't spend much time on him and would be honest with you i'm more worried yeah that's the guy we should thank but the right wingers from karl rove to paul wolfowitz to congressman steve king of been alleging that we found banks to torture techniques used by george w. bush however even secretary of defense donald rumsfeld disagrees he said some information that came from normal interrogation approaches or guantanamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding. also chair the senate intelligence committee dianne feinstein said this today. indications that. the information was gained by the harsh interrogation program of the cia what do you know it was was it a product of waterboarding that kind of process to date. the answer to your

question is no. and white house deputy national security adviser john brennan went on the record this morning to also knock down the myth that waterboarding provided any intelligence that led to the location of osama bin lot and obviously there is word out today that waterboarding played a very big role or a role in actually getting the information that was finding bin laden is that the case. so does bush really deserve any credit or is this just right wing nonsense alex sites wall is a reporter and blogger with think progress and joins me now alex welcome experiment you've been looking into this digging into this checking this thing out because bush really deserve any credit i mean this is nothing more than an effort to relive again the failed bush legacy you know obama had this huge national security victory and just like we've seen in other instances of you know major national security incidents under obama bush apologists and conservatives are going to use this to

a you know try to legitimize which is the legacy and to try to attack obama i mean you know i think the cia the military i think a lot of the intelligence complex deserves a great deal of credit for things that happened under bush's watch but the bottom line is bush basically turned his back on trying to find osama bin laden as the clip you just played said he basically said he wasn't interested in him and there are numerous quotes in his own words where he says i'm not that interested in hunting a lot of the right wingers so you know what when bush said that what he was trying to do was marginalise been law so that he wouldn't be as effective as a recruiting poster. but i think the reason he's trying to marginalize it is because he was unable to find him and bush is trying to build up this war in iraq and you can see direct instances in which resources were being diverted from hunting bin ladin in afghanistan and the tribal regions in pakistan to iraq for example their army delta units that were transferred from the bin laden unit to

iraq to hunt for. kind of units in iraq and in two thousand and five bush quietly close the cia's bin laden unit this is the unit that was dedicated specifically to hunting bin laden because they were intelligence needs for iraq and so he had to switch resources so i think a lot of that rhetoric about you know saying that bush was doing this intentionally asserted sort of some kind of grand scheme was to cover up this huge embarrassment of not being able to find him because you just wasn't resourcing it properly i mean tora bora is the key instance here this is in two thousand and one right after the invasion we had been in our grasp he was wounded he was on the run and there's about one hundred american commandos and they kept asking for reinforcements and they made repeated requests reinforcements a thousand marines to walk off the exits into pakistan there were american sniper teams helicopters mobile units and they were p. to be denied by general tommy franks who is the commander on the ground and then all the way up to donald rumsfeld who is the secretary of defense and presumably to

the white house to make this kind of major decision and in doing that in modern thought he was dead he wrote his last will and testament but in not pursuing him aggressively they let these you know untrained afghan militias go after him they let bin laden escape into pakistan and into history and till sunday it was and that's pretty incredible. at a tribute to the troops rally assuming she got one hundred thousand dollars speaking. in colorado last night thanked bush for all his efforts she wouldn't say the name president obama she wouldn't say his name to lewis. yeah yeah. yeah and. yeah me. and we. all are i am. i ok so we know that for example the reagan presidency was by and large a failed presidency had more people go to prison than any other president always

back to george washington. it was the most corrupt administration history of the iran contra scandals he had two major recessions one was worse than anything we've seen except the great depression. he ran on this massive deficit he cut taxes on billionaires raise taxes on working people levon times the only president is st ever have done that and they spent a few hundred million dollars in the intervening twenty some odd years and completely reinvented his history is this speech paid on and all of this speech of fine is going on by all these right wing talking heads on fox and frankly on any channel they can get their heads on their faces on is this part of the same kind of concerted effort i mean there actually was a project called the reagan legacy project that was funded by some of the same people who are funding today's tea party yeah absolutely i think that's exactly what's going on there's a similar project called the roosevelt room to bolster bush's legacy and it's just unbelievable to watch these contortions that you see the roosevelt the roosevelt

room as the room in the in the west wing and it is unbelievable to see these contortions eric cantor the house majority leader yesterday put out a statement praising president bush and kind of throwing in a little mention of obama at the end i mean it is the most extreme example but it's just taking this to its logical conclusion which is to you know not credit obama for something that he did on his watch and to try to put it on bush and i think a lot of it as as you're sort of mentioned was to try to you know ballad these enhanced interrogation tapes like torture i mean it's like with reagan they say he brought down the soviet union the so you fell on george herbert walker bush is administration right i mean somehow everybody in america has amnesia about that and these you know that the pieces of intelligence some were collected you know in two thousand fourteen thousand five but the bigger policy questions you know the cia that the agents were doing their job under whatever president it would matter to them but the bigger policy questions of how are you resourcing you know are

americans actually. teachers are you resourcing that the hunt for bin laden which simply didn't do that and obama recommitted was one of the first things that he that he did when he pointed out that it's the director of the cia he said we're going to go after bin laden and also the bush roof said that he wouldn't go into pakistan if bin laden was was found to be there he wouldn't need permission john mccain's service and john mccain and mitt romney exactly will start going to pakistan be there really was alex thanks for the great thanks for that you're doing it over think progress every chance bush had an apple solid in la he screwed up so claiming that he deserves credit now that president obama did what he could do never do is just absurd the truth is the only reason bin laden is no longer around is because bush is bad ideas no longer live at the white house. crazy alert a middle school teacher in the state of washington has fulfilled his end of the

bargain back in two thousand and one yuri well of he would not shave his beard until some of bin laden was captured now after nearly three thousand five hundred days of terror growth weddle is finally busting out the razor which is a good thing as well as the beard was about the same length as osama's same color green color too and it was only a matter of time before it caught the eye of the. who would undoubtedly use it to claim that bin ladin was in fact still alive and teaching fifth grade at middle school and if washington. coming up if you're insured with the added health care you may be entitled to a large settlement up excuse me maybe not after the break how your premiums contributed to the highest paid c.e.o. in the nation steven j. enslave united health care.

let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right now and. i think. either one well. whatever government says they're going to keep things safe get ready because your freedom. you know sometimes see a story and it seems.