in tonight's daily take i'll tell you why the people's distrust of the government actually started about thirty years ago with. it's now time for one. liberal rumble. on our conservative panel tonight meyer conservative political consultant contributor to the daily caller and jamie weinstein deputy editor at the daily caller dot com great to see you both thank you for joining us this week others have it let's get started the white house confirmed today that it will not be releasing the photos of osama bin laden's dead body death there is over at fox news are celebrating this decision which will give them conspiracy content for the next few days weeks months when you get right so was this a good decision to not enraged the muslim world by showing gruesome pictures of bin

laden or should the president have given in to the doubters like he did the burglars and release the photos i would have liked to seen the photos i'm kind of indifferent on this matter it's not something that i care that much about there was all these questions at the white house briefing about it and people pressing them you know if you doesn't want to release them fine i would have liked to see it it probably at the end of the day you know the alleged swedish rate is really the saudis will probably end up doing it. for it seems likely except that the cia had one hundred videos of torturing prisoners that they successfully vanished so you know the government knows how to keep secrets so. i would argue that you know this is this is the administration that promised us transparency and then they have this whole new cycle since day one since sunday night they have just made a disaster i think in sorrow at this point even you know i think starting with the obama speech which was full of rhetoric instead of just announcing this kind of victory and the white house has changed its story we should release some we are

going to release some oh we didn't know sorry we have video we didn't have video was in the white house this is a bit that was the cia director leon panetta well it was the administration it was the serious researcher who had actually bungled it so i think at this point even people that didn't have a doubt are like you know what just don't tell you things so this is you know it's not as soon as the story is coming out it's coming out through a variety of different sources and you know. very diverse news media that's just you know hysterically trying to beat each other to get the story first. you're going to get a mishmash of stuff well no i think the thing ministrations that manage the message and then they've done a terrible shock he said ok we're not going to tell you for twenty four hours and so we've all we everybody we've got over there are stuck to one story look you know . i thought they've got a decent job you know there's some things that contradict each other but at the end of the day i'm just happy to join him i can praise president obama for a job well done so i'm going to give him a pass on any of these things well that's fine but what's the argument again just to establish well the are going against it is that as as as he said as jay carney

said today that's not us we're not the people who take the dead guy's head and stick it on a stake and say i find a friend a friend so that's not the equivalent you know you said daniel pearl this would be the equivalent of what they did today they were proven innocent person they captured and beheaded sadistically in front of a camera this would be released just to show that the man had to have been killed by terrorists who slaughtered people in the united states and the deaths of many deaths in the muslim world this would not be the equivalent daniel pearl i actually find that somewhat offensive the comparison i'll give you i'll give you that it was originally when i had had this great question let me ask you this question of policy on fox listen i was already saying you know how do we know that he's actually going to do so why not release the pictures he can he can prove it he said because the you know you release his birth certificate and i've got all these very websites ago we will use a photoshop document symbiote there you understand the onus is on a good lot and to prove that he is not that it is not and he not only capable of

doing that and that's the i mean that's why there's really no need to release the photos because this is a question in the collar kind of tell us that if a person claims. you know after september eleventh but before january of twenty at that two thousand and nine would we be demanding pictures would we want proof i think under these circumstances it's a totally different people that would want it it would have been because bush was like always proud of. pictures you know here's the here's the sons of saddam hussein you know that we killed and you know here's the here's the terrorist we got it would have been out of character was he ever say that i think he really did and he was pretty pretty strong you know when he was doing this press conference but in his walk as soon as it was announced that bin laden is dead people started dumping their gratitude we're going to this question oh no we did their gratitude defeated jersey bush has been sitting on his butt in a gated community in texas for two years check out what sarah palin had to say

yesterday at a rally in colorado. and you might yeah me. or anything are right. or am. i now one single word acknowledging it was president obama she wouldn't mention his name yet he ordered this thing he put it together he did he asked leon panetta to come up with four options he chose the one you know he demanded the back up bill a copter was turned out was needed to point to a much better former president sitting on their butt watching television a former president going around the world coddling dictators like jimmy carter but to your sure absolutely he was just in north korea this wrote an op ed praising hamas this is this is his m.o. but this is no it was exactly the point i think i first of all i very happy to praise president obama to see what he did was a very risky call high risk high reward that he should be rewarded for taking out

a enemy number one with a very dangerous and risky operation however bush doesn't deserve no no credit here at all some of the policies that he put in place to help get us some of the threads of information that got us for example two thousand the new york times july fourth two thousand and six mark mazetti the central intelligence agency has closed the unit for a decade had the mission of honey osama bin laden intelligence officials confirm monday known as alex station was disbanded last year to. we basically stopped looking in fact to you goes on is a really focusing on regional trends rather than specific individual intelligence thread that people are going to make sure that well i don't want to hear of. this exists because the infrastructure that george bush put in place and that to his credit obama didn't mean it was a very good it was a very bush move going got going in we had military intelligence since long before world war i wanted you know september let me see thousand one with a massive failure of intelligence was it not. i would say it was

a massive everything there is i feel like you know you know you mean it was just because george bush was told on august sixth two thousand and one that explicitly was the headline of the memo that was the cia so to go down to specific one to the guy but that obama was going to terminate strike until the united states and he was not there riyadh back in washington d.c. once he got that number he wouldn't come back in his town. were not true that he went to florida i was very high richard clarke he said that once bush came into office there's nothing actually he could have done to put in place to probably stop the terrorist action from happening as he spoke for congress but my point is that what he wanted to pakistan that was actually a very bush might like move didn't notify the pakistanis it took a unilateral action to go in there and that's why i for eyes yes you are depleted uranium on the ground he leave and he denies that he indeed has the u.n. he didn't ask nato he wanted it good for obama he deserves credit for that courageous but you know what kind of is a what you not something you would think he would have but now when it continues to

threaten the bush administration's policy so absolutely everybody gets credit ok well why not you know because the argument he has such because he. wasn't eligible to run because relaxing. even he couldn't you know he came out here there's no give a speech he said i don't know where he is i don't care and frankly care and in two thousand and five he disbanded the bin laden hunting unit that bill clinton put together in one thousand nine hundred six you know. who could have killed. clearly who would catch cruise missiles into bin laden's camp missed him by fifteen minutes and then and then you know four hours before he was back with his girlfriend as he was impeaching. the president president clinton you had what was his name the speaker of the house. knew he returned you know this is what i do dog you know colonel ghostwriters and said that clinton had several opportunities to kill bin laden he didn't do so because he wouldn't think he had the legal justification which is the same reason when he was on the. same reason he would operate from

sudan a lot and he didn't accept it because i didn't i didn't i wish accept an exception when the law more offered him twice you know that's six provisos after we were attacked of the greatest terrorist act in world history that the taliban had to do to avoid war they did not meet those provisos and that's why war kurt the had to give up in law didn't among five other things yeah well how about just been law he was the bad guy right he was harvard by the taliban they were they were disappointed they said you know once we started first of all before the bombing they said you got to show some evidence and we turned over the place and we were not after the body but they said you don't have to show us evidence any active back to the to the war already began that's right after we started i don't know what you're trying to i don't know what you're going to do here before you trust the lord o.r.'s moammar. shaikh i don't think he's going to do anything he only has one . side but when i saw the. democrats even some republicans are lining up to question what the point of continuing the war in afghanistan is now that bin laden

has been found and killed chairman of the senate armed services committee carl levin adopted or exceed the advocated for a troop drawdown in afghanistan by saying afghans are now in an even better position to take responsibility because whatever direction is coming from packet stand from that safe haven no longer has the guy it's whatever strength and runs presence or direction could give to it and republican congressman cliff stearns from florida simply said now that bin laden has been executed we must go home consider so. when the president obama didn't have to invade pakistan with one hundred thousand troops to get bin laden on sunday isn't that prove that full scale war is unnecessary this is insane i mean the idea that the idea look you might want to leave afghanistan or you might want to stay but the idea that eliminating bin ladin proves that gives us one way or the other whether we should leave or stay doesn't make any sense that wasn't we weren't there security to get osama bin ladin that wasn't the sole goal it was to disrupt and dismantle and defeat the al qaeda network and. about two thousand to three thousand crazies because we take we're

going to take out an entire town try it's known as argentina's tomato and they're not as nice as i was five thousand maximum and they were being by the bush administration. and they were tough and they were tied to the taliban government was giving them safe haven to plot and plan against the west so so we're going to take down an entire country to stop five thousand well first of all i mean i'm not so i mean this is i'm not so heartbroken about taking down the taliban which is one of the worst regimes that exist in the universe alabam but think of all the think of all the innocent civilians who've been killed thinking you know how would you feel if you look here's one thing i'll give you an idea of what do you think about the women who look the one thing the taliban ever did for them is i don't think any of them ever got skin cancer under taliban rule because because they were never allowed out of the burka they were never allowed to house or throw acid in the places that women so i think there are not much better now in afghanistan than ever was like a taliban and people are way better nonsense and have a very it's unlikely the constitution explicitly gives takes away rights you know

in the invite that you both iraqi and i don't know how it's better i think that i think their life i'm going to be a hell of a lot better right now had we never invaded afghanistan because i believe that afghanistan would have been the next country to follow egypt and tunisia and say sorry we're going to throw these crazies out yet well that's negative ten years i'm not sure there is any there's any groundwork a groundswell of happened here is there anything in pakistan that showing us that there is a revolution going. on is ostensibly a secular country there is yet there is a. there's an incredible tension inside pakistan between the religious crazies and the secularists who want to have an actual government and a country it's a very problematic it really is surrounded and afghanistan what a god they're going to i mean that's kind of responding for a kind of structure i've never heard back to here's the here's just a simple number we're spending fourteen billion dollars a year in a country that has a g.d.p. of two billion dollars a year if we simply gave everybody in the country six thousand dollars a year and said ok here you're high times richer than you were doing

a lot more money to get weapons attack here. we have not been attacked by afghanistan but we were czechs we were almost like guys who planned the thing in germany and spain and the united states and we were from saudi arabia to train yet so there was a training camp in afghanistan every almost every terrorist attack against the west and western interests can be traced back in some way to training it in a region of the world for sure that there's a large bush gave a little more forty million dollars first first month he was in office a little more forty million dollars of it upon the lemonade the poppies and the war marget that year afghan opium production went down to like four percent of what it had been a year before and it's less than one percent of what it is right now don't you think that if george bush had said to mullah omar you know we give you forty million bucks for the we'll give you a billion for bin laden. family it remains a drug state i would much rather that it wasn't but on drugs that women and children people were killing girls and even you know president this is what you

might do with regimes football you know democracy cannot be given to you what he can't force democracy on people have to steal and he can take away people that are to their eyes this is larry going through with this is this is not just working democracy our job is going to grow saving people in sad fact that governments diplomats are sent to us and we have about one hundred sixty trees in the world out of one hundred yeah but economists that say we killed him and some of that of those hundreds of the countries none of them can say that almost every time. it's attack it's emanated against the west has had some ties back to spank you say that germany can say that the united states can say lots of babies and say i want to bomb gaza vegas you saying that las vegas can say that almost every terrorist attack is emanating against western targets and countries i mean back to live a gift no i don't the actual i don't think you could say almost every terrorist attack you had we've had a whole bunch of them here in just in the last couple of years and you know that it's over have come back you know my history most of them have gone back to glenn beck and right wing crazy old enough to understand what we've done. and there are

white supremacist killings that is very noticeable and worship center still in diapers a sea bottom in the chamber of the underwear bomber the guy who put water in those tanks from morning if you watch going back they were from cal the underwear guy i think that we got it i don't think it's anything with like watchmakers would be a lot less terrorism we've got to quit for question here. as jimmy fallon pointed out this week so far two thousand and eleven has been a tough year for the ocean take a look. here ok well in any case the point to do what your fellow pointed out is first the ocean had to deal with the b.p. then with the meltdown of daiichi and now. and the hits keep coming scientists of the arctic monitoring assessment program a map are forecasting a higher than expected five foot rise in sea levels a century thanks to rapidly melting ice and greenland the rest of the arctic a map warns about twenty fifth of the arctic ocean could be completely ice free meaning that low lying areas around the world are in danger of becoming the new ocean floor includes florida even new york city so if you're looking for an ocean

front property and a house in town a seat at the question is what's the real reason behind rising sea levels is it a global warming be water being pushed up thanks to bigger fish that mutates result of the nuclear disaster in japan or c. bin laden was dumped in the ocean and the evil emanating of his corpse is melting the glaciers are there. i like the world the internal time. the passing girl is alive for that explanation i might say not a term that actually because it is nice i didn't mean i just hope the ocean has a more problems in the sense of more more things going into it like more drilling oil oil and drills to help alleviate our energy shortages work that's going on are you serious one hundred percent you want we're joining the world absolutely it takes ten years and so on you start until you know but if you don't start now if you're always going to keep saying it takes a year i'm going to ten years ago it would be here we're giving we're giving four

billion dollars a year in subsidies i don't know if they're going through i support the subsidies or support more drilling but it also supports you know they said it was just a drop in the bucket you know give me an i don't know there's a port private a private entrepreneur is. innovating to to get us off oil but until then let's start drilling but i think it's because of bin ladin. he was frozen in to by george bush as i was jones told us all about yesterday starting to thaw the ocean so i. should jamie thanks very much making regime after the break a daily take on why our state of democracy has gone from we the people with the beasts.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so silly you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear see some other part of it and realize that everything you thought you knew you don't i'm sorry is a big issue. what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who made decisions through it through he made who can you trust no one who is in view who with the global machinery to see where we had a state controlled capitalism is called sackfuls when nobody dares to ask we do r t question more.

is the good but out of the very unbelievably ugly good u.c.l.a. geographers thomas philosophy and john agnew back in two thousand and nine they were a paper based on a theory called island biogeography where they predicted with eighty eight percent certainty that osama bin laden was hiding out in a metropolitan area in pakistan about three hundred kilometers away from his last known location in tora bora the description perfectly matches were bin laden was found in the city about about about paper also argued that he's likely living in a house a big house with electricity which also turned out to be true well done guys about the state of florida a judge ruled today that the state government violated its own constitution back in two thousand and nine when it lowered the minimum wage as

a result workers around the state were screwed out of roughly six cents an hour which adds up over the course of the year to about one hundred twenty five dollars and adding up the impact on all of the workers in the state they were short about. twenty eight million dollars and instead stand it stayed in the hands of their employers and their c.e.o.'s and the very very ugly charles krauthammer so-called news talking had picked up the bush deserves all the credit mean yesterday. do not take the risk of saying well perhaps i'll get information another way if i say very conservative the bush administration did exactly the right thing and if senator obama had been there with the president every time it is quite likely we would not have had good this information and this result that's a fact you can make let's see in the days after nine eleven bush rejected a deal by more law maher that would have turned bin laden over to a third party to trial he rejected the advice of his intelligence advisors who said

we had bin laden cornered in tora bora and thousand marines could get in and of course book bush rejected the intelligence memo before nine eleven and said bin laden was determined to hijack planes and crash them into american built not only do i think president obama would have got better results than bush i think a toddler got letters and that's very very. it only took two days for fox news to go death or and fox's judge an apology hano the guy who's likely to replace and back is leading the pack. the on the issue of whether the government is telling us the truth or pulling a fast one to save obama's lousy presidency is the issue of the lawful power of the president to order someone killed i don't know if you don't show the face then you know who's to say what was in that bag do you believe he's dead that really you

want some more evidence a photograph a testimony even i went to something other than the words of a president whose words we have doubted before. so first these guys say there's a conspiracy about where the president was born and the president releases his birth certificate and then there's a conspiracy about the timing of its release now after years of yelling about a conspiracy between the president and his relationship with radical islam the president kills osama bin laden and there's a new conspiracy but he didn't actually do it and the bin laden is still alive or was frozen for ten years and they lost their minds and it's a good thing to be skeptical of the government our government has lied to us to look at the gulf of tonkin incident that got us into the vietnam war or bush's lies that got us into iraq there's no denying that we need to keep a close eye on the business going on here in washington d.c. but this healthy skepticism has turned malignant and today the top rated cable news

network and i use the word news very loosely as well as the right wing internet blogosphere and of course the lion's share of talk radio is advancing this toxic strain of thinking it causes us to believe that everything the government is doing particularly want to democrats in the white house is part of some conspiracy to harm us and this is causing us to lose sight of the fact that we are the government after all this is a democratic republic and if we don't trust the government that we don't trust ourselves if we submit to this thinking and we are involving ourselves in the government the way we should be where founding fathers intended us to i think this modern day mistrust started back in one thousand nine hundred one with who else but ronald reagan tearing down the walls separating church and state reagan started laying the bricks to build a new will one that would separate the government from the people who refer to the

government as the beast and famously said that the nine most frightening words in english language are i'm from the government and i'm here to help. and very few people along the way of the say wait a second we are the government and we're not beasts are great and did this so that he could turn the government against the working people and cut taxes for the rich busted up labor unions and one by one shot down regulations that kept banks gambling with our money to the point that the s n l's collapsed and we had the worst recession since the great depression as a result of this conservative world view putting incompetent people in charge of government agencies and then saying see it's all of this so in this government agencies screwed up our government in many ways change from an institution that was looking out for the benefit of us all and is something that was more and more looking out for just rich people it seemed to be moving farther and farther away for most americans it was a machine away off in washington d.c.

it couldn't work worth a lick and had no idea what was in the best interest of america as long as the majority of us started questioning the motives of the government and republicans could campaign on a platform of how bad our government is and be successful this is reagan's real legacy creating a vast disconnect between we the people and our democracy and if we the people are participating in our democracy then who is after thirty years of ruining the reputation of government it's no wonder people think that it's are capable of some of the wildest conspiracies you've ever heard of from bin laden being frozen to missiles taking down the world trade center as i said a healthy skepticism is a good thing in a democracy when that skepticism turns into how the right paranoia and delusion in our democracy no longer works. our democracy depends on trust and if that trust isn't there it doesn't work and when government doesn't work then guess what

there's a huge opportunity for corporations from for profit armies to for profit schools to for profit health insurance companies here's your opportunity to make a lot of money which is why of course billionaire rupert murdoch's fox news is feeding this delusion they don't want us to remember that we live in a democracy of for and by we the people they want to think that instead of the government we should rely on the wealthy banks toure's or oil barons or health insurance executives to do is right for us because they're not the go but somehow they're like us but they aren't like us in fact they are the exact people thomas jefferson warned us of when he insisted the protection against monopolies inserted into the constitution since the birth of this nation the thing that separated america from the rest of the world was it's a galaxy theory of democracy it was the crowning achievement of mankind for two hundred years until the one nine hundred eighty s.

when i suddenly became a vile beast because ronald reagan told us once it's time to end this toxic strain of thinking and reassert ourselves into our own government again and kick out the transnational corporations the millionaires and billionaires who ruined democracies good name for the last thirty years. us once again trust ourselves with self government and tell the loonies of fox news to find a new country where there is no democracy to push the crazy theories of the libertarian paradise of somalia and do the whole be afraid thing there frankly here we have more important things to do. and that's the big picture for tonight for more stories more information on the stories we've covered visit our website thom hartmann dot com and. also check out our you tube pages that you tube dot com slash the big picture and slash. this entire show is available as a free podcast. and don't forget democracy begins when you show up with begins with the tag you're it.

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