in tonight's daily take i'll tell you why the people's distrust of the government actually started about thirty years ago with. it's now time for one. liberal rumble. on our conservative panel tonight meyer conservative political consultant contributor to the daily caller and jamie weinstein deputy editor at the daily caller dot com great to see you both thank you for joining us and to be here have you let's get started the white house confirmed today that it will not be releasing the photos of osama bin laden's dead body and it gathers over at fox news are celebrating this decision which will give them conspiracy content for the next few days weeks months you know point so was this a good decision to not enraged the muslim world by showing gruesome pictures of bin

laden or should the president had given in to the gathers like he did the birth and use the photos i would have liked to seen the photos i'm kind of indifferent on this matter it's not something that i care that much about there was all these questions at the white house briefing about it and people pressing them you know if you doesn't want to release them fine i would have liked to see it it probably at the end of the day you know the swedish rapist really dishonest will probably end up doing it. for it seems likely except that the cia had one hundred videos of torturing prisoners that they successfully banished so you know the government knows how to keep secrets and i would argue that you know this is this is the administration that promised us transparency and that they have on call this whole news cycle athens gate one from sunday night and they have just made a disaster out of it and so at this point even you know i think starting with the obama speech which was full of rhetoric instead of just announcing this kind of victory the white house has changed its story even we should release and we're

going to release some oh we didn't oh sorry we have video we didn't have video was in the white house the sub it was the cia director leon panetta well it was the administration it was even syrian state your uncle that so i think at this point even people who didn't have a doubt are like you know what just so i know you think so he says you know it's as soon as this story is coming out and it's coming out through a variety of different sources and you've got a very diverse news media that's just you know is terribly trying to beat each other to get the story first. you're going to get a mishmash of stuff oh no i think the ministrations manage the message and then they. just said ok we're not going to tell you for twenty four hours until we've all we briefed everybody we've got over there are stuck to one story look you know they may have bungled the measures it may have not i thought they've got a decent job you know there's some things that contradict each other but at the end of the day i'm just happy with my joint time i can praise president obama for a job well done so i'm going to give him a pass on any of these things you know well that's fine but what's the argument again just to establish well the are going against it is that as as as he said as

jay carney said today that's not us we're not the people who take the dead guy's head and stick it on a stake and say. that if it's not the equivalent you know you said daniel pearl this would be the equivalent of what they did to daniel pearl airport was an innocent person who they captured and beheaded sadistically in front of a camera this would be released just to show that the man who has it has been killed a terrorist who slaughtered people in the united states and the deaths of many deaths in the muslim world this would not be the equivalent democrat i actually find that somewhat offensive because there's a well you i'll give i'll give you. give me one i had a good had a great question though let me ask you this question the policy on fox last night was already saying you know what about how do we know that he's actually different so why not release the pictures because he can be really sad because the you know you release his birth certificate and i've got all these very websites ago we've clearly use the photo shows lack of medicine finder you understand the onus is on a good lot and to prove that he is not that it is not and he not only capable of

doing that yeah and that's the i mean that's why there's really no need to release the photo because this is a passion in my collar kind of colors that's. claimed to kill obama you know after september eleventh but before january of twentieth two thousand and nine would we be demanding pictures we would we want proof i think under these circumstances it's totally different people that would want it it would have been because bush was like always proud of. those pictures you know here's the here's the sons of saddam hussein you know that we killed and you know here's the here's the service that we got it would have been out of character was you give us a bit of pride i think of that and he was pretty pretty strong you know when he was doing this press conference but in any case as soon as it was announced that bin laden is dead people started dumping their gratitude we're going to this question oh you know we did a gratitude at the feet of george w. bush who's been sitting on his butt in a gated community in texas for two years check out what sarah palin had to say

yesterday at a rally in colorado. yet can't. get and. you have me. and he gave me. where i am. now one single word acknowledging it was president obama she wouldn't mention his name yet he ordered this thing he put it together he couldn't he asked leon panetta to come up with four options he chose the one you know he demanded the back up bill a copter was returned out was needed so much better former president sitting on their butt watching television a former president going around the world coddling dictators like jimmy carter but you're too sure absolutely he was just in north korea this wrote an op ed praising hamas and this is this is his m.o. but this is no it was exactly the point i think i first of all i very happy to praise president obama to see what he did was a very risky call high risk high reward and he should be rewarded for taking out

a merican enemy number one would have very dangerous and risky operation however bush doesn't deserve no good no credit here at all some of the policies that he put in place to help get us some of the threads of information that got us for example two thousand the new york times july fourth two thousand and six mark mazetti the central intelligence agency has closed the unit for a decade had the mission of honey osama bin laden intelligence officials confirmed monday known as alex station was disbanded last year to. we basically stopped looking in fact he was a republican focusing on regional trends rather than specific individual intelligence thread that he was going to make sure that. this exists because of the infrastructure that george bush put in place and that to his credit obama can see it was a very good it was a very bush like move going got going in we have military intelligence and so on but we are world war i wanted you know september eleventh two thousand and one with a massive failure of intelligence was it not. i would say was

a mouse everything is ok i know you know you e-mails because george bush was told on august sixth two thousand and one that explicitly was the headline of the memo to the cia so down to specific we're going to be but then i always can determine a strike absolutely nitrates and he was not there back to washington d.c. once he got that memo he wouldn't come back in his town once he got that memo not true that he went to florida i was going to like your interest rate i richard clarke he said it once bush came into office there's nothing actually he could have done to put in place to probably stop the terrorist action from happening i think testified before congress but my larger point is that what he wanted to pakistan that was actually a very bush might like move didn't notify the pakistanis it took a unilateral action to go in there and that's why i for eyes yes you are depleted uranium on the ground here we've been as though he didn't ask the u.n. he didn't ask nato he went in did it good for obama he deserves credit for that courageous. but you know what kind of is a what you not something you would think he would have got you know and it's

continued to threaten the bush administration's policy so absolutely everybody gets credit. well why not i think you know because argument against because he's. been eligible to run his reelection he's. even he's going to get you know he came out here to give a speech he said i don't know where he is i don't frankly care and in two thousand and five he disbanded the bin laden hunting unit that bill clinton put together in one thousand nine hundred sixty you know bill clinton who could have killed. one who would catch cruise missiles into bin laden's camp missed him by fifteen minutes and then and then you know four hours before he was back with his girlfriend as he was impeaching. the president president clinton you had what was his name speaker of the house. who are new here originally i was going this is why good dog you know pronovost patterson said that clinton had several opportunities to kill a lot and he didn't do so because he wouldn't think it the legal justification was the same reason when he was on the road diesel's the same reason he was offered

from sudan a lot and he didn't accept that i didn't why didn't i wish except except when i'm alone or offered him twice you know bush gave six provisos after we were attacking the greatest terrorist attack in world history that the taliban had to do to avoid war they did not meet those provides those and that's why war kurt baby had to give up in london among other things yeah well how about just been lot he was the bad guy right no he was harbored by the taliban they were they were the reason why they said you know once we started first of all before the bombing they said you got to show some evidence and we'll turn him over to the case and we were not after the they said you don't even show us evidence anymore after the war already began that's right after we started i don't know why you're trying to i don't want you to go to here do you trust the law garst more on our people i shake i don't think he's going to do anything he only has one. so why are democrats even some republicans are lining up to question what the point of continuing the war in

afghanistan is now that bin laden has been found and killed chairman of the senate armed services committee carl levin adopted or exceeding advocated for a troop drawdown in afghanistan by saying afghans are now in an even better position to take responsibility because whatever direction is coming from packet pakistan from that safe haven no longer has the guy it's whatever strength bin laden's presence or direction could give to it and republican congressman cliff stearns from florida simply said now that bin laden has been executed we must go home so consider. in the president obama didn't have to invade pakistan with one hundred thousand troops to get bin laden on sunday doesn't that prove that full scale war is unnecessary this is insane i mean the idea that the idea look you might want to leave afghanistan or you might want to stay but the idea that eliminating a good lot improves gives us one way or the other whether we should leave or stay doesn't make any sense that wasn't we weren't there security to get osama bin ladin that wasn't the sole goal it was to disrupt and dismantle and defeat the al qaeda network and. up to snuff out some three thousand crazies because we were going to

take an entire town known as argentina's tomato i asked myself time was five thousand maximum they were being by the bush administration thousand and twenty now and they were tough and they were tied to the taliban government was giving them safe haven to plot and plan against the west so so we're going to take down an entire country to stop five thousand well first of all i mean i'm not so i mean this is i'm not so heartbroken about taking down the taliban which was one of the worst regimes that existed under taliban but think of all the think of all the innocent civilians who've been killed think you know how would you feel if you look here's one thing i'll give an idea i'll give you think about the women who were and one thing the taliban ever did for them is i don't think any of them ever got skin cancer under taliban rule because because they were never allowed out of the burka they were never allowed to house or throw acid in the places that women so i think . much better now in afghanistan than it ever was under the taliban and people are way better non-students and have a better trained so you like the new constitution explicitly gives takes away

rights you know and they invite you know the rock you know who didn't like that could know now is better i think that i think their life i'm going to be a hell of a lot better right now ahead we've never invaded afghanistan because i believe that at the end of stand would have been the next country to follow egypt and tunisia and say sorry we're going to throw these crazies out yet well best of ten years i'm not sure there is any there's any groundwork a ground say will happen here is there anything in pakistan that showing us that there is a revolution brewing. just on a stance of secular country there and yet there is a. there's an incredible. tension inside pakistan between the religious crazies and the secularists who want to have an actual government in a country that's a very problematic problematic he really is surrounded and afghanistan with a god in their head i mean that's kind of understanding for a counter structure i've never heard of i don't think there's back here's the here's just a simple number we're spending fourteen billion dollars a year bombing a country that has a g.d.p. of two billion dollars a year if we simply gave everybody in the country six thousand dollars a year and said ok here you're five times richer than you were you get

a lot more money to get weapons because it appeared so i was going to we have not been attacked by afghanistan we were cherubs we were attacked by guys who planned the thing in germany and spain and the united states and who were from saudi arabia to train yet so there was a training camp in afghanistan every almost every terrorist attack against the west and western interests can be traced back in some way to training in jordan apple region of the world order for sure that there is. a law more forty million dollars first first month he was in office get mullah omar forty million dollars of it upon the lemonade the poppies and wal-mart get that that year afghan opium production went down to like four percent of what it had been a year before and it's less than one percent of what it is right now don't you think that if george bush had said to moammar you know we gave you forty million bucks for the we'll give you a billion for bin laden but more. gradually it remains a drug state i would much rather that it wasn't but on drugs that women and children all innocent people were killed and did girls can't even you know

president this is what you might regimes football no democracy cannot be given to do what he would have forced democracy on people they've got to steal it but you can't take away people that are to say or write this is larry i'm sure you know this is this is not just working democracy our job is to have the world saving people and sad bad government democrats are saying to us that we have about one hundred sixty degrees in the world out of one hundred seventeen times that say we killed him and some of that of those hundreds of the countries none of them can say that almost every terror. it's attack it's emanated against the west has had some ties back to the apple spain can see that germany can say that the united states can say it was begun when say it went in bomb and was vegas you saying that was vegas and say that almost every terrorist attack is emanating against western targets and countries and we need to back a lot of a gift no i don't actually i don't think that you can say almost every terrorist attack we've had we've had a whole bunch of them here in just in the last couple of years and you know it's all of them have come back you know my history and most of them have gone back to glenn beck and right wing crazy no no no i'm still reviewing the facts and the law

the rights of promises about killing that is now we know so much more she centers you know in diapers or see a bomb in the chamber the underwear bomber the guy who put water in those tanks from the front gate if you watch going back they were from kelly underwear guy i think that we had built i mean is everything was like las vegas to be a lot less terrorism we got a quick question here. as jimmy fallon point out this week so far two thousand and eleven it's been a tough year for the ocean take a look. here ok well in any case the point to point out is first the ocean had to deal with b.p. then with the melt out of daiichi and now. and the hits keep coming scientists in the arctic monitoring assessment program a map are forecasting a higher than expected five foot rise in sea levels a century thanks to rapidly melting ice and going on the rest of the arctic a map warns about twenty fifth of the arctic ocean could be completely ice free meaning that low lying areas around the world are in danger of becoming the new ocean floor includes florida even new york city so if you're looking for is

a ocean front property provide a house in china sea but the question is what's the real reason behind rising sea levels is it a global warming b. water being pushed up thanks to bigger fish that mutates a result of the nuclear disaster in japan or c. that model was dumped in the ocean and the evil and then ending up as corpses melting glaciers are there. at the world internal temp. of the passenger also i've heard that explanation i thought it was not her term that i think it's nice i just mean i just hope the ocean has some more problems in the sense that more and more things going into it like more drilling oil producer we all and drills to help alleviate our energy shortage. are you serious one hundred percent you want more drilling in the world absolutely it takes ten years of the time you start but if you don't start now if you're always going to keep saying it takes one year why don't we started ten years ago it would be here we're giving we're giving four

billion dollars a year in subsidies to oil and so much for i support the subsidies or support more drilling and i also support sarah palin even if they said oh it's just a drop in the bucket you know give me an i don't know if we support private private entrepreneurs. innovating to to get us off oil but until then let's start drilling i think it's because of bin laden i think the ice sheet he was frozen into by george bush as alex jones told us all about yesterday starting to thaw the ocean and i feel it. should jamie but it's a very much maybe it's. after the break a daily take on why our state of democracy has gone from real people with beasts.

you know sometimes you see a story and a scene so. you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else and you hear see some other part of it and realized everything you saw you don't i'm sorry there's a big picture. of what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions it's come to create through it through who could made who can you trust no one who is in view with the global machinery to see where we had a state controlled capitalism it's called sections when nobody dares to ask we do our t.

question more. it's the good the bad and the very unbelievably ugly the good u.c.l.a. geographers thomas philosophy and john agnew back in two thousand and nine they were paper based on a theory called island biogeography where they predicted with eighty eight percent certainty that osama bin laden was hiding out in a metropolitan area in pakistan about three hundred kilometers away from his last known location in tora bora the description perfectly matches where bin laden was found in the city of. paper also argue that he's likely living in a house a big house with electricity which also turned out to be true well done guys the bad the state of florida a judge ruled today that the state government violated its own constitution back in two thousand and nine when it lowered the minimum wage as

a result workers around the state were screwed out of roughly six cents an hour which adds up over the course of a year to about one hundred twenty five dollars and adding up the impact on all of the workers in the state they were short about. twenty eight million dollars and instead standard to stay in the hands of their employers and their c.e.o.'s and the very very ugly charles krauthammer the fox so-called news talking had picked up the bush deserves all the credit mean yesterday. do not take the risk of saying well perhaps i'll get information or another way if i say maybe i can say remember the bush administration did exactly the right thing and if senator obama had been the president every time it is quite true i could we would not have had good this information and this result that's a fact you can make let's see in the days after nine eleven bush rejected a deal by momar that would turn bin laden over to a third party for trial he rejected the advice of his intelligence advisors who

said we had bin laden cornered in tora bora and posin marines could get in and of course book bush rejected the intelligence memo before nine eleven and said bin laden was determined to hijack planes and crash them into american built heck not only do i think president obama would have gotten better results than bush i think a toddler who got letters and that's very very. it only took two days for fox news to go after and boxes judgment policy hano the guy who's likely to replace glenn beck is leading the pack. the on the issue of whether the government is telling us the truth or pulling a fast what disabled bum was lousy presidency is the issue of the lawful power of the president to order someone killed i don't know if you don't show the face then you know who's to say what was in that bag do you believe he's dead it really you

want some more evidence a photograph but testimony but i'm going to something other than that the words of a president whose words we have doubted before. so first these guys say there's a conspiracy about where the president was born and the president releases his birth certificate and then there's a conspiracy about the timing of its release now after years of yelling about a conspiracy between the president and his relationship with radical islam the president kills osama bin laden and there's a new conspiracy then he didn't actually do it and the bin laden is still alive or was frozen for ten years and they lost their minds but it's a good thing to be skeptical of the government our government has lied to us look at the gulf of tonkin incident that got us into the vietnam war or bush's lies that got us into iraq there's no denying that we need to keep a close eye on the business going on here in washington d.c. but this healthy skepticism has turned malignant and today the top rated cable news

network and i use the word news very loosely as well as the right wing internet blogosphere and of course the lion's share of talk radio is advancing this toxic strain of thinking it causes us to believe that everything the government is doing particularly want to democrats in the white house is part of some conspiracy to harm us and this is causing us to lose sight of the fact that we are the government after all this is a democratic republic and if we don't trust the government then we don't trust ourselves if we submit to this thinking and we aren't involving ourselves in the government the way we should be where founding fathers intended us to i think this modern day mistrust started back in one thousand nine hundred one with who else but ronald reagan tearing down the walls separating church and state reagan started laying the bricks to build a new will one that would separate the government from the people he referred to

the government as the beast and famously said that the nine most frightening words in english language are i'm from the government and i'm here to help. and very few people along the way to the polls wait a second we are the government and we're not beasts but reagan did this so that he could turn the government against the working people he cut taxes for the rich busted up labor unions and one by one shot down regulations that kept bankers gambling with our money to the point that the s n l's collapsed and we had the worst recession since the great depression as a result of this conservative world view putting incompetent people in charge of government agencies and then saying see it's all it is so and this government agency screwed up our government in many ways change from an institution that was looking out for the benefit of us all into something that was more and more looking out for just rich people it seemed to be moving farther and farther away for most americans it was a machine away off in washington d.c.

it couldn't work with a lick and had no idea what was in the best interest of america and as long as the majority of us started question in the motives of the government then republicans could campaign on a platform of how bad our government is and the successful this is reagan's real legacy creating a vast disconnect between we the people and our democracy and if we the people are participating in our democracy then who is after thirty years of ruining the reputation of government it's no wonder people think that it's are capable of some of the wildest conspiracies you've ever heard of from bin laden being frozen to missiles taking down the world trade center as i said a healthy skepticism is a good thing in a democracy when that skepticism turns into out right paranoia and delusion. and our democracy no longer works our democracy depends on trust if that trust isn't there it doesn't work and when government doesn't work then guess what there's

a huge opportunity for corporations from for profit armies to for profit schools to for profit health insurance companies here's your opportunity to make or lot of money which is why of course billionaire rupert murdoch's fox news is feeding this delusion they don't want to remember that we live in a democracy of for and by we the people they want to think that instead of the government we should rely on the wealthy banks toure's or oil barons or health insurance executives to do what's right for us because they're not the go but somehow they're like us but they aren't like us in fact they are the exact people with thomas jefferson warned us so when he insisted that protection against monopolies inserted into the constitution. says the birth of this nation the thing that separated america from the rest of the world was it's a galaxy area democracy it was the crowning achievement of mankind for two hundred

years until the one nine hundred eighty s. when i suddenly became a vile beast because ronald reagan told us it was time to end this toxic strain of thinking and reassert ourselves into our own government again and kick out the transnational corporations the millionaires and billionaires who ruined democracies good name for the last thirty years. let's once again trust ourselves with self government and tell the loonies of fox news to find a new country where there isn't democracy to push the crazy theories like the libertarian paradise of somalia and do the whole the afraid thing they're frankly here we have more important things to do. and that's the big picture for tonight for more stories more information on the stories we covered visit our website thom hartmann dot com and. also check out our you tube pages if you tube dot com slash the big picture and slash tom martin and this entire show is available as a free podcast. and don't forget democracy begins when you show up it begins with you tag you're it so the.

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