beasts in which bryson if you remove the song from constant pressure. starts on t.v. dot com. broadcasting twenty four seven from central moscow this is r.t. international thanks for being with us our top stories tonight the e.u. parliament voted that the bloc should have a permanent seat at the u.n. security council for critics say the union's enough problems to solve by kosovo without getting more involved in international issues. the crackdown on anti-government protests in syria intensifies and so does international pressure on the country to stop the bloodshed but many see sanctions and predicted calls for regime change as echoes of the intervention in the libyan conflict. president

medvedev says al qaida is continuing to send a steady stream of agents to russia's north caucuses as they're awful found among the militants killed in anti terror operations russia needs to stress that terrorism is a shared problem and bin laden's death is beneficial to russian security. following on from the next artie's debate show cross-talk examines how u.s. policy in afghanistan is said to be transformed following the killing of our top terrorist. located welcome to crossfire nine people about with the killing of osama bin laden u.s. president barack obama has an historic opportunity on afghanistan will he use it and what is the downside if he doesn't.

across the u.s. strategy in afghanistan i'm joined by bradley blakeman in washington he's a former member of george w. bush's senior staff and currently a professor at georgetown university and in islamabad because the shock i could hear is a risk in security analyst all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's take a look at some of the issues and opportunities facing president barack obama when it comes to afghanistan. more than the week following the killing of al qaeda or leader of some of bin laden the question that is gathering steam is whether the u.s. will now change its war on terror strategy a decade of chasing the specter of the loddon has marred the u.s. in a war against an enemy that is stateless and it seems ubiquitous without gracious in afghanistan iraq can stand in yemen the cost of the war on terror and mounts to

a staggering three trillion dollars the death toll is difficult to estimate but hundreds of thousands of afghans iraqis and pakistani civilians are believed to have lost their lives and most of all we're making progress in our major goal or central goal in pakistan. let's be honest and that is disrupting of despair we are going to ultimately defeat. but this makes the question since they vow the goal of invading afghanistan to find bin ladin is now comp list what is to be done about al qaeda which though many argue is no longer relevant as franchise the sell out across the region last week it issued a response to bin ladin scaling say his quote blood will be a curse that will chase the americans and their agents a curse that will pursue them inside and outside their country despite all this a bomb a seems to be sticking to his guns promising to move forward with a plan to withdraw from afghanistan. the white house too has reaffirmed obama's

stance saying that drawdown is on but the operation against al qaeda will now be relegated to the afghan army the focus of that operation of the u.s. personnel in afghanistan is on al qaeda the operation continues the july two thousand and eleven transition date for the beginning of a drawdown remains. very much in place the pace of that drawdown will be determined by conditions on the ground but it is still very unlikely at his request . tiredly especially given the much kloster over suspicion of pakistan's knowledge of bin laden's presence in the country and not long ago general david petraeus himself cast a shadow over the prospect of withdrawing from afghanistan while the security progress achieved over the past year is significant it is also fragile and reversible nevertheless what bin laden's death could surely do is help pave an

easier way to negotiations and then out of afghanistan a way that would allow the u.s. to walk away as a victor as even iran hails the success of its operation against bin laden so now it has no excuse to stay in the region national chair in a for across the uk marty. all right i want to go to our guest in islamabad first bombers as show that the united states after ten years could get osama bin laden kill him without anyone knowing about it in pakistan least that's the official line how will that change the facts on the ground in afghanistan because the effectiveness of al qaeda is still relatively unknown but we know that the insurgency is quite strong wow how is one affecting the other. well actually because a lot of them would we won't discuss what was almost a legit clue from if we'd been killed exclusively by the us let's tickle from the top the grounds are jewish you don't have a product on is going to be no different there is an ongoing insurgency and

insurgency if you understand it correctly it is what should be called the one freedom struggle from occupation by foreign forces is struggling there with modern the eighty's of when the soviets were occupying them it's true that they are now involved in against the american occupation forces so that struggle is an ongoing one and it's not going to end the american unfortunately the way they have conducted their operations and credit cards have alienated themselves when they came in in two thousand and one if they had conducted themselves as if they were saviors off of drugs the oregon people would have welcomed them would have volunteered to but they didn't and today the situation on the ground is that they're fed up with the americans they want them out so that's not going to change now your second part of your question which relates to al qaeda the al qaeda presence in a grandson has reduced to a bare minimum there are perhaps about ten or twelve people that

visited hiding out in the caves of tora bora the last that i ever heard of anything happening with al-qaeda with when we call it out the operation and with you to start the total you will be destroyed. in two thousand and eight. and. the most who called nine sally a bigger problem and the most who pulled out had been the most pulled out they had to go to the cable total to get their. turn to. the people and there were only about twenty odd people of that time they were due for the sims as your commentator venture and the relevance of the given circumstances and the fact very very questionable ok ok i thought it would only brad bradley about that i mean after we did what we just heard here i mean right now it would be death of. bin laden that's

just a really good excuse and having nothing to do with really facts on the ground for obama to say to start pulling back from afghanistan he found a peg to hang his story on his is narrative because from what we just heard what happened last week outside of islamabad has really nothing to do with the war going on in afghanistan. it may or may not i think it's a time for the president to be cautious to hurt his advisor his military advisers well his political advisers say that we're on track to withdraw however conditions on the ground will determine ultimately what american policy will be so i think we have to work very closely with the afghan government their military the pakistan government and their military in order to come up with a regional strategy by which america can withdraw but after the killing of osama bin laden now if ever is a time to be cautious and see what comes of his death who's going to take his place if anyone what kind of attacks will be made in retaliation so america must act

patiently and cautiously and the president is right to keep on his timetable with the out that if things on the ground changed their policy will change ok bradley if i can stay with you what does it mean to you to draw back in afghanistan because a lot of people say complete withdrawal is the only option for the americans right now absolute complete withdrawal not you know to take fifty thousand troops home and keeping the other fifty there for another five years or something like that and keeping bases there and backing up karzai i mean where do you fall and on how far the poll out should be i think it all depends on what our military and political and state department people evaluation in concert with the local officials government officials up and again us and think that's in their best interest and we have to evaluate what's in air best interest and our allies as long as al qaeda is operating in that region as long as the taliban is operating in that region i think

united states has an interest in preventing for the future harm to america and our friends and allies ok i'm going to back to you buy into that. no i'm afraid i don't my perception is that for a long time now u.s. foreign policy at least this as far as it relates to this part of the world is dictated not by the white house made on capitol hill and in fact made in the pentagon and langley and by. once again posting. offering the cia job to the next. it would be players who fight recall correctly two thousand and seven when he testified before congress about of . the surge in iraq had he got it approved from congress and the congress later learned that he told lies. he was called little the hidden couple who nobody could

with who can not betray us betray us. so you got to know us not to save people's lives so that is a problem for privately privately jive justin why this is true this is prostitution the. bradley zero forty truth bradley go ahead and manufactured propaganda general petraeus is actually a revered on both sides of the aisle republicans and democrats and if anybody thought that he was telling the congress and on truth he certainly would have been brought before the congress and public and brought down a bad it general petraeus is try to do in iraq and actually is highly good players already if somebody if somebody put a little book put out before ad in the newspaper the us which read the c.n.n. you know what i was curious and was it was it was a it was a democratic it was a tenor craddick operative group called move on dot org and you know what i know

about it is because i put it in the paper denouncing it in the new york times so don't say that it was the government is we who united states who portrayed portray us as a liar know it will democrats who try to demonize him and were proved wrong so get your facts right not just not you not not just a democrat congress also it was my usual deliveries of the right it rallied to speak let them split them speak let them speak i had. in the congress also the slogan were raised whether you would like to accept that what you told them on the air that everything today is found on the internet yeah that's around this and you can hear lies you believe everything that's on the internet ok so i really believe i could yeah i believe i do something on the internet i mean i i don't really want to balance out either one of us had to go to put out the level. we're not going to call oh well we don't make an allegation by the way i mean people occasionally it's

totally false and then back it up by the internet it shows how at how ignorant you are to the facts i know the facts because i was i was there in tamil you know how i have child diaries has taught me i've pakistani i'm ignorant you're an american and boy you don't know what you're talking about know what i have well i have no i do i miss you i do your show all right gentlemen let me jump in here and jump in here after a short break we'll continue our discussion on afghanistan post-paid right stay with r.t. . a cluster mission. and inside the container you have it all off and you can have anywhere from dozens up to hundreds of there's

a huge market right now for cattle area clearance because there are a lot of countries in the world that are contaminated by unexploded ordnance. and so you've got these companies and n.g.o.s that are basically strung up that have an expertise to get rid of these weapons what they do is they go to these places they will hire local train the locals how the clerics will let the locals basically take ownership because you know they have a vested interest in clearing their homes and they're putting themselves at risk every single day when they go out there to clear areas of. a. big. block.

for some this is just a parliament building in. what's sixty six years ago this was the final targets. and the last major offensive for the red army. it's captured became the symbol of the fall of the fascists into. the big three over nazi germany. the whole of berlin and r.t. . hungry for the full six we've got it first the biggest issues get a human voice ceased to face with the news makers. it can. still. welcome back to crossfire i hear all about to remind you we're talking about obama

and his new afghan strategy. ok bradley i'd like to go back to you in washington. what about just direct negotiations between the united states and the taliban on terms and conditions for the the drawdown in leaving afghanistan and i suppose the caviar there is that they're not they don't want any more troops staying in afghanistan a complete evacuation is there and over time ok is that possible is that a scenario they can do and can be brought out because the american people are tired of the war it's extremely expensive and goodness knows the people in afghanistan have had enough war to. well i think the mirror americans are worried of war but we're not we are being attacked and we're not weary of defending our country so i think we have to work with the karzai government and they are the elected government of afghanistan and figure out what is in their best interest what is in

our best interest but one thing is for sure that we've seen out of the the killing of osama bin laden is both the afghan government and the pakistani government play both sides of the fence and the united states must get tough with both of these governments either they're going to be with us or against us and if they're if they're going to be against us then i think we need to get out of the region and do we have to do to protect ourselves just like we did in it going into pakistan without their knowledge and taking care of business so i think it's a time now for our governments to get tough with the afghan and the pakistani government and actually find out where they stand with regard to american presence in their countries ok it's called after islam about here we used to be here the term asked pak meaning america thinks its convicts its problem in afghanistan it has to do with pakistan after this unilateral act and people would say the be a violation of pakistani sovereignty how can that happen because pakistan really

does play a key role here in resolving if it is resolvable the issues in afghanistan at least for the americans. you know what we just heard from. the washington post directive which was tough and the u.s. world would threaten to get them. because it's the sole superpower that thinks it can get away with it i think it's time to talk a thought into on its own also to look at options even perhaps. the only people if there is to be a solution to the of on its own property and i think that's already under way that is people who do good money in addition to which began last year leave you to go if you disobey lochiel which you deprive of the back from. the chief army chief and if that issue is to work and if you do the situation solution which excludes both baucus thought and the u.s. but of course for any negotiation with

a lot of problems and live on has to be some facilitation done by. would perhaps have the road complete facility create over no more. i think that would have perhaps begin to be what we would be looking at us can start getting get off of that like we poor fellows you know we've that we guys of swisscom brought a while ago both will call boy one coming up probably what they want to hear i really feel bad i really jumpin for pakistan rice with corruption and rife with with harboring america's most wanted in the world's most wanted terrorist how is it possible that pakistan did not know or was complicit in hiding this guy either way either answer is totally unacceptable and you can't tell me that pakistan did not know or was totally incompetent in in a military town crawling with retired and current military on your largest bases

nearby and this guy has been living there good resource years i thought we were going to move on to talk about of lot of stalin and so i let you be and i thought we'd want all power. because then just pakistan is a pakistan if you want i'm back you know you can't do one without the other all right you are going to have is what are you all right you want to go back to parker . let's talk about pocketbook whether this operation was carried over to u.s. forces by themselves or with the assistance of the i.s.i. has a credibly if i recall correctly president obama in his speech when he addressed the public have made known this fact he acknowledged that without your system of the services this operation would go to be possible what is more than likely he said you said the other day on sixty minutes that that pakistan had to be complicit in hiding him after the fact they might have helped us but are you great to have to go and i doubt i'd like to stay with you i'd like to state of can i stand gentlemen

i'd like to stay with afghanistan but really i'd like i said this is rattling i'd. like to ask you you know this is ten years going on the united states has been in afghanistan for ten years and its coalition of the willing that is dwindling all the time i mean it looks to me you know the insurgency is just it can afford to wait it out ok i mean the united states is i mean i was reading an interesting article coming from a military source u.s. military source just today and he said there's such a psychological fatigue of the military after ten years these were these people didn't expect to be there for a decade ok and sake that's taking its toll as well i mean my point is is that you don't make a pretty negotiated deal pretty soon on terms that are appealing to the people on the ground it doesn't matter that the united states will just be bled dry over just a year after year tens of billions of dollars i agree there are you know. there is fatigue and there's

a question as to what the end game is sooner or later the pakistanis and the afghanis have got to stand up on their own it's their country but having said that i think after the death of osama bin laden we have to be more cautious than ever and i think the president is smart to stick to his timeline publicly but with the kaviak that we're going to evaluate the situations on the ground which will determine our ultimate policy i think that's the only rational policy this is ministration an administration and our military can take at this time but it's certainly it's up to the afghan people themselves to determine their ultimate destiny and if they want to help and it's reasonable we should give it ok and i go back to islam and i mean and looking at these two countries i mean is karzai a partner that they can be dealt with other than with the americans i mean is he a legitimate force within afghanistan to make negotiations happen with the insurgency and to deal directly with pakistan is he strong enough we. regretfully

not know i think if we go we go back a little bit and tell you can recall. the. it was a good president. collusions against who called lee about having to do the elections and that bad period of time which we will of course the us pulled back and let it be but they had lost his whatever credibility he had of color stop it also for a number reason we don't need to go back to history treats all that but he lost to credibility with people who longer trust him my own gut feeling is if if the us back up to go because they will be part of the bag. but they would have to be as i said before i know who could go from the start and it's not going to be a call about a solution i can assure you that i think whatever the i think that is the relation of honest on whether the pockets but we want we want a peaceful look honestly talking point we want. and it can only call

a vote you have got to get together and we could collect two solution which could make it work it would not be a car those who should it will perhaps be something else it will have to be a national government of some sort something that would make it work because the longer the run is started on stable we're on a stable the longer we are unstable of honest i don't fit with one who will to wait and therefore it's in our interest that something something meaningful begins to work. but it will cave gradually what do you think about that i mean we didn't hear the us in that in that i mean i mean what brought i mean if you had the afghans and the pakistanis they deal with the problem themselves because a lot of people say looking at the insurgency on a number of people and these are legitimate polls that have been taken that the bottom line is is what's called occupation of afghanistan now that's just it can the united states afford to completely withdraw from the country because that's the the single most important demand that many members of the insurgency have. it

remains to be seen i think as time goes by in a very short period of time because we're up against july when we start to make major withdrawals let's see what happens but i agree that it's obviously up to the pakistani government and the afghan government to solve their own problems both individually and collectively as they share a border so if if i the best possible scenario for me would be to administration actively engaged with the afghan government of pakistan government and other credible allies to help them stand up on their own i think that's a great solution whether it's possible or not remains to be seen but let's be hopeful and cautious and not want not just act out of a knee jerk reaction and a gate certain means that we have to withdraw regardless of what conditions are what if i go back to islam of the little i was going to go ahead let's also don't

let's all sort of threaten each other let's sort of course that's be hopeful and let's not just keep tripping each other listening to people to go to guns to say i can do this and you know one of the big. yes you had a question you know i am well what i'm very interested in looking at here is that i don't want to stay with islam which is just pollack from a pakistani point of view is this just politicking is this obama looking for reelection ok he's got national security credentials now that no one can really question ok and you know he looks like a powerful guy and americans like that when they go to the polls you know how much of this in your mind and in the timing of it all of this is politicking and really it doesn't matter about the people on the ground ok it's about how americans feel about themselves go ahead. well look the truth of the matter is everything everywhere only work is about politics when it comes to politics nothing is not politicking so it's just that i mean we rate the actual rate.

in the first. twenty four all over the phone from obama gained about ten points. seventeen points so yes he's gained and if you let me jump in here bradley we're almost out of time bradley i want to give you the last thirty seconds of the program is it all about politics it's all about the election two thousand and twelve going to look at the era lection is going to come down to the economy we are light years away from. the election in political terms so when people go into the poll voting booth or ask themselves one question are we better off today than we are four years ago the answer today is no regardless of this national security credentials it's all about the economy all right gentlemen thanks to my guest today in washington and in islamabad and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time and remember rostock rules.

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