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tv   [untitled]    May 13, 2011 3:30am-4:00am EDT

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the machine would be soo much bryson if you move it soon from plans to parachute it's. nice for instance on t.v. dot com. let's have a look at the main stories we're covering for and. syria is up for a day of prayers and protests as washington promises to punish the government for human rights abuses fueling fears it's planning a repeat of libya some experts claim the us has always totaled several trees for getting involved in conflicts in the guise of humanitarian aid. it's a day in france of battling internal turf an immigrant influx while it's not a north african the rest is something you countries prompting donald freebooters
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his arrival party that will jeopardize a personal freedoms and lead to the reinstatement of open turned border controls. will set all mcguigan proof capsule out once the russians got into the bed this against the forces of nature and the creation of a multi-billion dollar concept the so-called twenty first century would be able to sustain itself and vulnerable using natural sources of energy. next to saudi bates cross tour quote on this edition host a piece of l. and his guests discuss the turmoil in her world means iran.
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ok. keep. following it welcome to crossfire gang peter lavelle as the arab spring continues to sweep the arab middle east where does this leave iran with a new and democratic regimes in the region now deceased themselves from washington and how is the arab spring changing the islamic republic. ok. crosstalk the fate of iran in the storm of the arab revolutions i'm joined by mohammad marandi in toronto he's a professor at the university of toronto in london we go to jonathan paris he's a security specialist in senior fellow with the atlantic council and author of the recent report prospects for iran and in irvine we crossed a serai soap or ehrlich she's an independent research writer and political commentator all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime
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you want but first let's look at iran and its neighborhood. though faced with tougher sanctions this year iran appears no less emboldened in the face of the west as the service is strengthens us to its ongoing democratic tsunami. a very washington's diplomatic predicament the revolutions and things are highly praised. like there are also welcome for votes crane and. isolated iran may actually find your partners and build new alliances so long as it turns in your place in his dealings or into going there relations was highlighted. went to worship sales for the suez canal for the first time in thirty one fares the shared surprising and crane also works to iran's advantage to run speaks out in support of protesters who struggle against the so no ruling class was in place number claim
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and washington's behavior was small work and that's why this time i could probably work why should a monarch family. the people each not really should cast. and anyone who is elected . will be the leader. however this sense of justice is not applied to cia which is to suppress dissent is cluing not interested in losing one of its allies in the region it has been reported that iran has provided the syrian authorities relevant prize when dealing with wide scale dissent all the while washington is watching we are watching very closely what iran is doing in the region. we hear and praising the uprisings in the middle east and north africa. except it doesn't praise what happens inside iran and it doesn't praise what is happening in syria it is
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a further example of the hypocrisy of the iranian regime when both countries are busy using the other of hypocrisy there appears that the sunni and shia divide will intensify even further and close to the arab spring to do it most of the revolutionaries with basic wounding is both a political and social course is attractive the projections the arab spring will eventually spread to iran and dinner giant. steps remember the scale of the recent protests cannot be compared to what's going on in egypt maybe but not yet and that's a bit stronger for crosstalk. all right so i always go to the person that gets up earliest for the program that's you in california so i'll go to you first here how is the standing of the united states in the region now and visa v.-e. around because for the last thirty years the united states has just been at odds with the islamic republic most of the point of fanaticism and that we see these
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these revolutions or revolts being played out in north africa and other parts of the region which you know we don't know if they're going to be anti-american but it's clearly they're not going to be as pro-american as the dictators that have fallen is that to iran's advantage or is it really an on secular question. good morning thanks for having me on your show and to be frank with you i are not certain that i would call them revolutionaries in the region and i am very apprehensive of the term the arab spring because that was first applied to the two thousand and five comments made by various reporters thinking that after the illegal invasion of iraq the democracy oprah western democracy would follow and it's not being applied to the uprisings in various countries in the region and had his uprisings been totally independent of outsiders. i would say that they would
quote
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end up being the making the countries more sovereign and rip them off there are various dictators but they're not independent they've been there are just haters this are taking advantage of people's this satisfaction and we know for a fact it's everywhere and many experts believe that national environment for democracy and freedom house has been training the people to be on the streets and revolt against her various regimes and it was it's actually interesting that the revolutions as they're now become so known exactly how i'm not sure but the this started in tunisia and egypt the two countries were the puppet dictators friends of the united states had terminal illnesses and i think that perhaps it was to america's advantage to control its democracy program by initially getting rid of
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these two dictators and replacing them controlled chaos and then their on going to the other countries but while boosting its own image in the in the area in the region you know it's one interpretation was going really good jonathan how do you think you ran please and all this is this a net gain or a net loss for them. it's hard to say right now if you are keeping score in a kind of conventional like power point of view military power and alliances you would have to say iran is doing well because they haven't yet lost an ally and they their enemies have lost a few or actually so why as a interesting point maybe america has lost egypt or tunisia but it's certainly not the same kind of knee jerk support that you could count on from mubarak and ben ali that you have now you have a much more chaotic situation for america so i would say right now iran is winning
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however the big question mark is syria although i have something contrarian to say i hope people will jump in which is that on syria in a way saudi arabia iran and the united states. and even israel here kind of see eye to eye in trying to keep assad going i mean nobody's really pulled the plug on assad least of all the united states ok i'm home if i go to you and surround i mean united states israel and saudi arabia working together or do you see that in regard to syria and iran and the rest go ahead and. well i i think that with regards to syria. the turks are also concerned because they are they have the form of islam that dominates in turkey is is not. and it's much more mild and there is a large allawi population and a minority population and sort of his well as well as as well as
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a pretty spotty nation so turkey too does not have an interest in syria falling if syria falls i think that as your previous pointed out correctly. no one will really win even i think perhaps even the so he's would be a big a slew. because if the salahi's in syria are much more hardcore then. than in egypt and if if syria falls then jordan will i think definitely i think fall and saudi arabia will be more surrounded than before because right now the saudis have very poor relations with iraq with iran with back rein obviously. in yemen things are very unstable there is a weak central government the north of yemen but who these have very poor relations with the saudis because of the bombing of their villages by the saudi regime last year and in this out there and they're salahi's which are hostile towards the
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saudis despite the fact that the saudi ruling family aside i think itself so i think that if jordan falls the saudis will be in a lot of trouble especially with the situation in egypt they're not very friendly with the saudis now either so serious that you're very. good job jumping jonathan go ahead i didn't i think that's a big leap to say that because it's just turned that my iranian from users they call the opposition in syria solid fist that's a pretty binary look i mean it's syria has a lot of people opposed to our side right now there are there are civilians druze in the south are there although we've religion there is sunni girl sudanese in the villages and banias who are being massacred there the city fall can cool going home so i mean i didn't mean to say. oh it's all of this and i don't mean to say that a hard decision or i miss it i mean there's
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a general manager. jumping ahead. thank you when when the tears speaker is believes that it's to the interests of both america and saudi iran israel and what have you to in a way back syria i tend to disagree because then i would have to ask why is it that the united states is funding the opposition and funding a satellite television in london television to broadcast anti regime propaganda into syria and i do take that people against the regime so it's very hard for me to believe that. i mean this goes. this goes back to let's go back to before we go to the break i think to be honest i think that the americans and israelis are are somewhat confused in their position because as you could guess in the united states pointed out the americans are playing
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a role here and so are american allies in lebanon. really is is is fun being groups within syria and the saudis are deeply involved in all of this but as i pointed out earlier i wasn't saying that the opposition to the syrian government is just what i'm saying is that the concern in turkey is is that the overthrow of the government would have very negative consequences for them that is how they apparently feel about it but i don't think the americans are i think that pointed out americans their allies they've had a role in the us in syria and i'm not saying that the syrian government is is the ordinary people who are killed that's a good thing but the fact that there are soldiers who are also being killed so that it's not simply a revolution or an uprising in a sense and i think again your guest in the united states being we're going to go to a short break right after that short break we'll continue our discussion on iran's
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state with our team. it is. a good thing to. for sun this is just a parliament building in france. but sixty six years ago it was the final target. and the last major offensive for the red on. its capital became the symbol of the fall of the fascists into. the victory over nazi germany. the fall of their lives on r.t.
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. wealthy british scientists say it's now time to rise. markets. can. find out what's really happening to the global economy in these kinds of reports on our t.v. . if you. still. want to. welcome back to cross talk i'm here about to remind you we're discussing what's next for around in light of the arab awakening. ok jonathan i want to go back to you in london we were talking about the nature of other syrian regime and opposition and who benefits when things go wrong there go
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ahead jonathan well i think it's important to note that what's happening in syria in the villages and cities of syria it's not something that the americans or the how rare is or cooking up or even the saudis it is really an indigenous revolt against what i call a mafia rule of about twenty five persons just about twenty five persons no more got. but run run this country like it's their own a.t.m. machine that's the real kind of middle problem i agree that the americans and the israelis have been very slow and uncertain to support the opposition i think the saudis likewise but clearly the fall of the us side word would hurt iran and therefore you iran has every interest in portraying this as more of an evenhanded battle between tanks on the one hand and our own armed civilians on the others it's simply not even handed i don't think that's trying it a ok mom and dad this are just very briefly i just want to say that that's not what
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he how he runs putting it iran is calling on the syrian government to move forward with reforms but at the same time there is absolutely no doubt that the saudis are deeply involved and that doesn't mean that since then paul there is no legitimate grievances in syria but you have to keep in mind that unlike mubarak. sad president assad was has been able to bring huge crowds into damascus and other major cities so he is not without his supporters his foreign policy has been popular among his own people and. take segments of his own people at least so it's not as if it's a one sided game he is popular and he has many enemies but i think i mean i'm no expert on syria so i have to wait and see what happens so i i'd like to ask you a question it's the it's interesting i like a point you brought up earlier in the program about intentions in. making a syria unstable for a possible regime change is that just maybe the united states and its allies are just looking for it playing out
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a number of different options simultaneously and seeing which one is most attractive when they get to a point where they find it is attractive but it's not contradictory to have different different approaches. that's very true i mean it would not be very wise to have just one plan they always have a plan b. and c. but they the united states clearly failed when he was when he invaded countries and made it bankrupt and now it's time to much cheaper way of undermining the regimes that are not friendly towards it and in fact in two thousand and ten had if israeli security interests the can ask then said that syria is the biggest threat to israel and if they continue on the path they're continuing they would they would send israel back to scientists in seven borders and so syria is a huge concern if israel's for one thing they want the golan heights by and israel
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will not negotiate on that and i think any analysts that would agree that the united states foreign policy is there to cater to israel as national interests and that there'd be chaos obviously the foreign country i disagree for some reason jonathan i thought you would go right ahead. i think that's ludicrous that's absolutely nonsense israel has enjoyed thirty two years of peace with syria on the golan heights they're absolutely delighted with the stability they have with syria and that's precisely the reason why they're not pushing hard to have thrown under the truck the way obama threw mubarak under the truck there are different situation each country is different but it's already got he was smiling in syria you know it's the circle of our supporters all right mommy and good point well i think that the israelis definitely do not like the syrian president or hamas the
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islamic jihad and hezbollah. supported and backed by syria and syria is the only neighbor of israel besides lebanon which is a very different case altogether. or that hasn't signed a border agreement with with israelis they are in the city effectively in a state of war and the situation changes in egypt and of course it's complicated who knows what's going to happen in egypt but i think that whether the americans like it or not there are forces at play in egypt will that will cause more pressure on the government to to support the people in gaza and i think that in general when you have a situation with like that with syria which is supporting these groups and then you have a new situation in gaza israelis will definitely be feeling more and more uncomfortable to say the least so arrant go ahead is really going on with the way ahead mind boggling. it's mind boggling that jonathan should say they have lived in peace with
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thirty two years with syria the israelis and syrians whereas if i was a couple of years ago they bombed illegally the syrian nuclear program and again as professor marandi in tehran said they have never never been they've had never had a good relationship with syria and what bothers israel more than anything in fact is the fact that syria has always been remade in our life iran and iran for israel is proving that and. iranian threat that their own creates an israel wouldn't be getting the aid from the united states it wouldn't be acting the way it does without anybody stopping their illegal activities and their murders and their. palestinian lands ok jonathan i want to change gears here i just i mean think about the paper that you wrote your recent paper on iran let's talk about how if we call it a revolution a revolt or awakening or spring or whatever it we want to collectively call it
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what's happening in north africa and how is it going to affect iran. on the ground on the ground well that's a that's a piss that's a difficult one to say i think iran had found a formula for crushing the opposition in two thousand and nine after the fraudulent elections allegedly fraudulent elections where ahmadinejad's allegedly won sixty five percent of the vote and then you had an amass outpouring of people in the cities of tehran but ultimately through a combination of troop force. and in any event what happened in north to in north africa is is really quite different they may have learned some twitter techniques from the iranian revolution but what happened in iraq what happened in tunisia and egypt were fundamentally just a practice really to take me away traced back to israel has suddenly. well i think it's not what are your sort of he's a hero here he was not even on you. look look i could make appliances i know
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they're all over your memory does one say why right there where i didn't finish my point i didn't finish my point i mean you're you're so obsessed with america and with israel i'm trying to say what the arab spring is about is it's about the lack of governance is about the lack of personal freedom it's about a lot of things that the tunisian and the egyptian people felt so i would say that it was impacted by iran however i would say that the problems that the people of tunisia and egypt are suffering from are not different from the problems that people iranians are in iran are suffering from a professor marandi i want to you very simply i jump in go well first of all very quickly in iran the i didn't vote for mr ahmadinejad i'm not a fan of mr ahmadinejad but he won the elections legitimately there was absolutely no fraud the polls carried out by americans showed at the polls carried out by iranians showed it and even mousavi as representative in the ministry of interior
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who had forty thousand volunteers said specifically five days after the election that there was no fraud but regardless of iran what is heart with north africa they should have good governance is very important i agree with you completely on that and the issue of corruption and dignity but also i think what is very important regardless of who is managing these revolutions and which direction it is taking the people of the region are very angry towards their leaders for blindly supporting the united states and aiding. the united states in its support for apartheid policies in palestine the people of the region dislike israel immensely not because they are jewish but because there is a zionist ideology that dominates the land and the people of palestine are treated as dirt they're not treated as human beings and that is very central to how people in this region feel so ryan we want to chime in on that. i do agree with professor
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marandi one hundred percent i also want to point out that yes iran does deal with protests but also understand that the support for the regime in iran comes from the people i like the. scenario over tunisia where it was the united states and israel the support of this countries so if if even if there is an uprising in iran the majority of people do support the regime and the president and it's just so if the numbers ok jonathan i can find out i feel in london of course at the center of american for go go right ahead congress struck right a bill right now it says but i don't know where to begin i think it's utter nonsense order nonsense the iranian people do not support the iranian people do not support medina job it's art or nonsense and human rights violations of my leisure
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are numerous right away excuse me so i am speaking no you listen yes human rights violations compare comparative thanks and syria shooting on armed civilians compared with the posse she did to poor neda in tehran back compare that to whatever you think israelis are doing oh ok well just me exactly what i'm trying to write songs are straight proper this is the terror problem you're wonderful. friend yeah yeah it's a laugh if you carry marshall they sure marshall when osama bin ladin there was a caption last week on sky news or some of bin ladin says there were not be peace in palestine until the rights of palestinians there he interrupted care marshall who was watching the massacre in homs of syrian supported by iran by the way of syrian tanks and to martial such come off it everybody i talk to from bank. see
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through to cairo to to to tunisia and now here and holmes says we reject the big lie the big lie that says it's israel's for all right i don't even need to get professional randi don't worry what america just air marshal explained this is pretty high but here is where you got to. people for a don't move that's what i'm sorry we've run out of time folks we've got time we're just running out of time thank you for this very spirited debate many thanks to my guest today in turan london and in irvine and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk rules. can .
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