we'll. bring you the latest in science and signal from the realms. of the future coverage. seven thirty pm in moscow these iraqi headlights thousands of syrian anti-government protesters take to the streets once more made heightened security russia cautions demonstrators against seeking support from foreign states this is the u.s. is reportedly preparing to declare president assad school and legitimate. russia gets its hockey gear on as it gets the right to host the two thousand and sixteen world championships crashing rivals denmark and ukraine yet another victory in the country's chain of success will be including the next winter olympics and the

twenty eight team football world cup. the floor refugees from arab uprisings threatening to divide the european union member states have hawgs over who should host the migrants and considering reestablishing borders in the free travel zone. out next peter lavelle and gas discussed what the turmoil in the arab world means for iran debate coming your way in cross talk right now. ok. the last. week in the week. following the welcome to crossfire gang peter lavelle

as the arab spring continues to sweep the arab middle east where does this leave here around with a new and democratic regimes in the region distance themselves from washington and how is the arab spring changing the islamic republic. ok. to cross the fate of iran in the storm of the arab revolutions i'm joined by mohammad marandi in toronto is a professor at the university of toronto in london we go to jonathan paris he's a security specialist in senior fellow with the atlantic council and author of the recent report prospects for iran and in irvine we crossed the serai so poor ehrlich she's an independent research writer and political commentator all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's look at iran and its neighborhood. though face to its toughest sanctions this year iran appears no less than bold and in the face of the west as the service is trying to

adjust to the ongoing democratic tsunami there in the savor and washington's diplomatic predicament the revelers and things are highly praised public are also welcome for vaules crane and leave. the room isolated iran may actually find your partners and build new alliances so long as a residence in your page has dealings with. going their relations was highlighted. went to worship sailed through the suez canal for the first time in thirty one tears the shit uprising and crane also works to iran's advantage to run speaks out and support of protesters who struggle against this so no ruling class society in place number claim and proportional to his behavior was strongly condemned by this . why should a monarch family. people each not really should cast their vote in the ballot boxes and anyone who is elected. will be the leader. whether the sense of

justice is not supplied to ceiling which continues to suppress dissent is cluing not interested in losing one of his allies in the region as has been reported that iran has provided the syrian authorities. dealing with wide scale dissent all the while washington is watching we are watching very closely what iran is doing in the region. we hear and praising the uprisings in the middle east and north africa. except it doesn't praise what happens inside iran and it doesn't praise what is happening in syria it is a further example of the hypocrisy of the iranian regime both countries a visit using their other crissy there were fears that the sunni and fear divide will intensify even further and clones of the arab spring did much of the

revolution ariston can spell with basic ideas both politically and such of course is hardly attractive the projections that arab spring will eventually spread to iran and general jones will fall in mubarak's footsteps however the scale of the recent protests cannot become passed to what's missing in egypt maybe not yet and that's a patrol for crosstalk. all right so i always go to the person that gets up earliest for the program that's you in california so i'll go to you first here how is the standing of the united states in the region now and visa v.-e. around because for the last thirty years the united states has just been at odds with the islamic republic almost to the point of fanaticism and we see these these revolutions are revolts being played out in north africa and other parts of the region which you know we don't know if they're going to be anti-american but it's clearly they're not going to be as pro-american as the dictators that have fallen

is that to iran's advantage or is it really and on separate question. good morning thanks for having me on your show and to be frank with you i am not certain that i would call them revolutionaries in the region and i am very out of the term the arab spring because that was first applied to the two thousand and five comments made by various reporters thinking that after the illegal invasion of iraq the democracy of progress and democracy would follow and is now being applied to the uprisings in various countries in the region and had his uprisings been totally independent of outsiders. i would say that they would end up being the making the countries more sovereign and rhythm of their various dictators but they're not independent they've been there are just haters this are taking

advantage of people's dissatisfaction and we know for a fact it's everywhere and many experts believe that national environment for democracy and freedom house has been training people to be on the streets and revolt against her various regimes and it was it's actually interesting that the revolutions that i was there nob become to known exactly how i'm not sure but the this started in tunisia and egypt the two countries were the puppet dictators friends of the united states had terminal illnesses and i think that perhaps it was to america's advantage to control its democracy program by initially getting rid of these two dictators and replacing them controlled chaos and then they're on going to the other countries while boosting its own image in the in the area in the region where you are so that's one interpretation was going on because jonathan how

do you think the rand plays and all just is this a net gain or a net loss for them. it's hard to say right now if you if you're keeping score in a kind of conventional like power point of view military power and alliances you would have to say iran is doing well because they haven't yet lost an ally and they their enemies have lost a few or actually so i as a interesting point maybe america hasn't lost egypt or tunisia but it's certainly not the same kind of knee jerk support that you could count on from mubarak and ben ali that you have now you have a much more chaotic situation for america so i would say right now we ron is winning however the big question mark is syria although i have something contrarian to say i hope people will jump in which is that on syria in a way saudi arabia iran and the united states. and even israel

here kind of see eye to eye in trying to keep assad going i mean nobody's really pulled the plug on assad least of all the united states ok mohamed if i go to you in toronto i mean united states israel and saudi arabia working together or do you see that in regard to syria and iran and iran go ahead. well i i think that with regards to syria. the turks are also concerned because they are they have the form of islam that dominates in turkey is is not the islam and it's much more mild and there is a large population and a minority population inside his well as well as as well as a kurdish population so turkey two does not have an interest in syria falling if syria falls i think as your previous case pointed out correctly. no one

will really win even i think perhaps even the saudis would be the biggest lou. because if the salahi's in syria are much more hardcore then. than in egypt and if if syria falls then jordan will i think definitely i think fall and saudi arabia will be more surrounded than before because right now the saudis have very poor relations with iraq with iran with back rein obviously. in yemen things are very unstable there is a weak central government the north of yemen but who have poor relations with the saudis because of the bombing of their villages by the saudi regime last year and in the south there and their salahi's which will be hostile towards the saudis despite the fact that the saudi ruling family aside life itself so i think that if jordan falls this o.d.s. will be in a lot of trouble especially with the situation in egypt they're not very friendly with the saudis now either so serious that you're very. good job

jumping jonathan go ahead i didn't i think that's a big leap to say that because there is this term that. for and used as they call the opposition in syria solid fist that's a pretty binary look i mean it's syria has a lot of people opposed to assad right now there are variances brews in the south there are there are we very. very sunni ruled sudanese in the villages and banias who are being massacred there the city for cool going home so i mean to say it is very sad i see there now is all of this and i didn't mean to say that it was anything but i miss it i mean there is a gentlemen gentlemen let's go there let's. go ahead. thank you when when the tears speakers believe their eyes to the interests of both america saudi

iran israel and what have you to in a way back syria i tend to disagree because then i would have to ask why is it that the united states is funding the opposition and funding a satellite television in london the television to broadcast anti regime propaganda into syria and i just hate the people against the regime so it's very hard for me to believe that. i mean. let's go back to let's go back to before we go to the break i think to be honest i think that the americans and the israelis are are somewhat confused in their position because as you could guess in the united states pointed out the americans are playing a role here and so are american allies in lebanon. is funding groups within syria and the saudis are deeply involved in all of this but as i pointed out earlier i wasn't saying the opposition to the syrian government is just

sanity but what i'm saying is that the concern in turkey is is that the overthrow of the government would have very negative consequences for them that is how they apparently feel about it but i don't think the americans are i think pointed out americans their allies they've had a role in the us in syria and i'm not saying that the syrian government is is that ordinary people who are killed a good thing but the fact that there are soldiers who are also being killed show that it's not simply a revolution or an uprising in the sense and i think again your guest in the new. job you know we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on iran's state with r.t. . if you can. see .

yes my name is daniel schmidt this is julian assange we're here to make a short presentation of all the we can fix project. the first step in the fourth day is to get information out about the real world. to him war on you and i'm. sure he will because you are going to be able to market three. to five up and you saw as this danger here would hunt me down think oh. this is exactly one of the reasons why we left the project because it has become more about this all claims fund with than up all the actual information. but thank you. so

a whole big will around the won't. they be. known for. bringing you the latest in science and technology from the ground floor should. we go into the future of coverage. welcome back to crossfire util remind you we're discussing what's next for a round in light of the week. ok jonathan i'd like to go back to you in london we were talking about the nature

of the syrian regime in opposition and who benefits when things go wrong there go ahead jonathan well i think it's important to note that what's happening in syria in the villages and cities of syria is not something that the americans or areas are cooking up or even the saudis it is really an indigenous revolt against what i call a mafia rule of about twenty five persons just about twenty five persons no more that have but run that run this country like it's their own a.t.m. machine that's the real fundamental problem i agree that the americans and the israelis have been very slow and uncertain to support the opposition i think the saudis likewise but clearly the fall of saddam would hurt iran and therefore iran has every interest in portraying this as more of an evenhanded battle between tanks on the one hand and arm on arm civilians on the other it's simply not even and i don't think that's trying it a ok mom i just have just very briefly i just want to say that he that's not what

he how iran is putting it in iran is calling on the syrian government to move forward with reforms but at the same time there is absolutely no doubt that the saudis are deeply involved and that doesn't mean that since then ball there is no legitimate grievances in syria but you have to keep in mind that unlike mubarak. a sad person is assad was has been able to bring huge crowds into damascus and. other major cities so he is not without its of course his foreign policy has been popular among his own people and. a seller segments of his own people at least so it's not as if it's a one sided game he is popular and he has many enemies but i think i'm no expert on syria so i have to wait and see what happens so i i'd like to ask you a question it's interesting i like a point you brought up earlier in the program about intentions in. making syria unstable for a possible regime change is there just maybe the united states and its allies are

just looking for it playing out a number of different options simultaneously and seeing which one is most attractive when they get to a point where they find it is attractive but it's not contradictory to have different different approaches. that's very true i mean it would not be very wise to have just one plan there was have a plan b. and c. but they united states clearly failed when he was when he invaded countries and made it bankrupt now is fond of much cheaper way of undermining the regimes that are not friendly towards it and in fact in two thousand and ten head if israeli security address that can ask then said that syria is the biggest threat to israel and if they continue on the path they're continuing they would. send israel by two thousand and six and seven borders and so syria is a huge concern and israel's for one thing they want the golan heights back and

israel will not negotiate on that and i think any analysts would agree that the united states foreign policy is there to cater to israel as a national interest and that there'd be ok also i didn't see the vicarious country i disagree for some reason jonathan i thought you would go right ahead. i think that's ludicrous that's absolutely nonsense israel has enjoyed thirty two years of peace with syria on the golan heights they are absolutely delighted with the stability they have was syria and that's precisely the reason why they're not pushing to have thrown under the truck the way obama threw mubarak under the truck there are different situation each country is different but it's already got the way it was mined in syria you know likes to sort of support it right. and good point well i think that the israelis definitely do not like the syrian president.

has been alone all supported and backed by syria and syria is the only neighbor of israel besides lebanon which is a very different case altogether. or that hasn't signed a border agreement with with israelis they are in the see if i could be in a state of war and the situation changes in egypt and of course it's complicated who knows what's going to happen in egypt but i think that whether the americans like it or not there are forces at play in egypt will that will cause more pressure on the government to to support the people in gaza and i think that in general when you have a situation with them like that with syria which is supporting these groups and then you have a new situation in gaza and israel is will definitely be feeling more and more uncomfortable to say the least so our goal here is really going on with the way his mind boggling. it's mind boggling that jonathan should say they've lived in peace

with thirty two years with syrian israelis and syrians who as a private couple of years ago they bombed illegally the syrian nuclear program and again as professor marandi in tehran said they have never never been there have never had a good relationship with syria and what bothers israel more than anything in fact is the fact that syria has always been remade in our life you run and iran for israel is being a man and. an iranian threat that their own creates an. israel wouldn't be getting the aid from the united states it wouldn't be acting the way it does without anybody stopping their illegal activities and their murders and their. encroaching on palestinian lands ok jonathan i want to change gears here i just think about a paper that you wrote your research paper on iran and it's not about how if we call it a revolution a revolt or

a weakening or screen or whatever it we want to collectively call it what's happening in north africa and how is it going to affect iran. on the ground on the ground well that's a that's a piss that's a different quote one to say i think iran had found a formula for crushing the opposition in two thousand and nine after the fraudulent elections are allegedly fraudulent elections where ahmadinejad's allegedly won sixty five percent of the vote and then you had an amass outpouring of people in the cities of tehran but ultimately through a combination of group force. and in any event what happened in north to in north africa is is really quite different they may have learned some twitter techniques from the iranian revolution but what happened in iran what happened in tunisia and egypt were fundamentally kind of clandestine he said take me with a trace back to israel has suddenly well i thought i was right here sort of was

a hero here he was not you ron you. druck look i could make a point either all of them or your memory does one thing while i try and i married or where i didn't finish my point i didn't finish my point i mean here you're so obsessed with america and with israel i'm trying to say that what the arab spring is a crowd is it's about the lack of governance is about the lack of personal freedom it's about a lot of things that the tunisian and egyptian people felt so i wouldn't say that it was impacted by iran however i would say that the problems that the people of tunisia and egypt are suffering from are not different from the problems that people iranians are in iran are suffering from a professional and i want to completely i jump in go well first of all very quickly in iran the i didn't vote for mr ahmadinejad i'm not a fan of mr ahmadinejad but he won the elections legitimately there was absolutely no fraud the polls carried out by americans showed at the polls carried out by

iranians showed it and even mousavi as representative in the ministry of interior who had thought he thousand volunteers said specifically five days after the election that there was no fraud but regardless of iran what is hot with north africa they should have good governance is very important i agree with you completely on that and the issue of corruption and dignity but also i think what is very important regardless of who is managing these revolutions in which direction it is taking the people of the region are very angry towards their leaders for blindly supporting the united states and aiding. the united states in its support for apartheid policies in palestine the people of the region dislike israel immensely and not because they are jewish but because there is a zionist ideology that dominates the land and the people of palestine are treated as dirt they're not treated as human beings and that is very central to how people

in this region feel so ryan we want to chime in on that for the. i do agree with professor marandi one hundred percent i also want to point out that yes iran does deal with protests but also i'm just stunned that the support for the regime in iran comes from the people i don't like the. scenario oh it's an easy oh where was the united states and is it all the support of this country's so if if even if there is an uprising in iran it to me tours if the people do support the regime and the president and it's just self numbers ok jonathan i can find of i.q. in london of course at the center of american foreign go go right ahead thunderstruck write a bill head malices but i don't know where to begin i think it's art or nonsense art or nonsense and the iranian people do not support your idea of people do not support going to be in a job that's art or nonsense and human rights violations of my leisure are never

met right away excuse me i'm speaking now you listen yes human rights violations compare compared to tanks and syria shooting unarmed civilians compared with a posse as you did to poor nato in tehran that compared to whatever you think israelis are doing and i'll tell you just me is it bloody hard trying to write a song or say you are going propaganda this is the care of profit margins are wonderful. friend yeah. if you care marshall they share marshall when osama bin ladin there was a caption last week on sky news osama bin ladin says there were not be peace in palestine until the rights of palestinians there interrupted care marshall who was watching the massacre in homs of syria and supported by iran by the way of syrian

tanks and to martial such come off it everybody i talk to from bank. see through to cairo to to to tunisia and now here and holmes says we reject the big lie the big lie that says it's israel is probably going to be able to get professional randi don't worry what america just air marshal explained this is pretty widely is where you can't trust the. people freedom of choice i'm sorry we've run out of time. time we're just run out of time thank you for this very spirited debate many thanks to my guest today in turan london and in irvine and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember crosstalk rules. keep.

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