you know we want to put these people out of sight and out of mind and torturing them in this way really is a mark of shame on our society and something that i think that people are going to look back on in future times and and you know judge us according to how we've been treating these people but they're not getting certainly not getting better in solitary confinement and in many cases they're getting worse and they may you know what may have been a temporary condition may turn into a permanent condition is as you said suicide is a problem you know in the case of bradley manning it was interesting because he was put on suicide watch actually against the recommendations of the psychiatry is that the brig in quantico and as a result of that he was subjected to all kinds of deprivation he was not allowed to sleep with a pillow and a blanket he was forced for a period of time to stand naked in front of the guards in the morning and this by the way is is treatment you would never see in a mental health facility. that would have been absolutely unthinkable and yet

he was exposed to it and finally you know it got to the point where there was a public outcry and international outcry and this one person thank goodness has been moved to a different kind of the cillit a but you know again there are so many that are suffering from this kind of treatment whose names we don't know and whose faces we don't know and they're locked away and it's it's it's our shame and online you can catch archie's christine for sauza full feature report on solitary confinement i'll give you that website address in just a moment that would link her more of those roosevelt institute and founding editor of the new blog i'm more or less for that does it for now but r.t. dot com usa for more and have a fantastic weekend. culture is that so much different and therefore you should be sitting. in the market is the

arab spring campaign used to speak the arab middle east where does this leave iran with a new and democratic regimes in the region now just to cease. to keep. the old. fellow and welcome to crossfire computor lavelle as the arab spring continues to sweep the arab middle east where does this leave here around with a new and democratic regimes in the region now deceased themselves from washington and how is the arab spring changing the islamic republic. ok. cross-talk the fate of iran in the storm of the arab revolutions i'm joined by mohammad marandi into round he's a professor at the university of toronto in london we go to jonathan paris he is

a security specialist in senior fellow with the atlantic council and author of the recent report prospects for iran and in irvine we crossed a serai set up or ehrlich she's an independent research writer in political commentator all right crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but first let's look at iran and its neighborhood. though faced with tougher sanctions where iran appears no less in the face of the west. is trying. to get on going democratic. it was a very well sometimes diplomatic predicament the revolutions and things are praised public are also welcome. and. something isolated and full of fine your partners. and your line says has already turned in your page and it's still in sort of interim authority in their relations was highlighted and went to war ship sailed through the suez canal for the first time in for warmth

here's the shit uprising and crane also works to iran's advantage to run speaks out in support of protestors who struggle against the sunni ruling class inflation of the brain and of course from his behavior was strongly condemned by this namak republic why should a monarch family really really good people each not really should cast. the anyone who is elected. will be the leader whether the sense of justice is not supplied to ceiling which continues to suppress dissent is cluing not interested in losing one of its allies in the region it has been reported that iran has provided the syrian authorities with valuable advice in dealing with wide scale dissent all the while washington is watching we are watching very closely what iran is doing in the region. we hear and praising the uprisings in the middle east and north africa

. except it doesn't praise what happens inside iran and it doesn't praise what is happening in syria it is a further example of the hypocrisy of the iranian regime when both countries are busy accusing the other of kapok recy there are theories that the sunni and shia divide will intensify even further and clones of the arab spring did much of the revolution the risk would basically doing is. politically such of course has attracted the reproductions the arab spring will eventually spread to iran and. will fall in mubarak's footsteps however the scale of the recent protests cannot become passed to. it's. not that. crosstalk are. all right so i always go to the person that gets up earliest for the program that's you in california so i'll go to you first here how is the standing of the united

states in the region now and visa ve around because for the last thirty years the united states is just been at odds with the islamic republic almost to the point of fanaticism and we see these these revolutions are revolts being played out in north africa and other parts of the region which you know we don't know if they're going to be anti-american but it's clearly they're not going to be as pro-american as the dictators that have fallen is that to iran's advantage or is it really and i'm secular to question. good morning thanks for having me on your show and to be frank with you i are not certain that i would call them revolutionaries in the region and i am very apprehensive of the term the arab spring because that was first applied to the two thousand and five comments made by various reporters thinking that after the illegal invasion of iraq the democracy oprah western

democracy would follow and is now being applied to the uprisings in various countries in the region and how is uprisings being totally independent of outsiders . i would say that they would end up being the making the countries more sovereign and rhythm of the various dictators but they're not independent they've been there are two taters this are taking advantage of people's dissatisfaction and we know for a fact it's everywhere and many experts believe that national indictment for democracy and freedom house has been training the people to be on the streets and revolt against her various regimes and it's what it's actually interesting that the revolutions out of their knob become too known they're exactly harm not sure of the this started in tunisia and egypt the two countries where the pockets of taters

friends of the united states had terminal illnesses and i think that perhaps it was to america's advantage to control its democracy program by initially getting rid of these two dictators and replacing them controlled chaos and then their on. going to the other countries but while boosting its own image in the in the area in the region are you and so is one interpretation was going on because jonathan how do you think you ran please and all this is a net gain or net loss for them. it's hard to say right now if you if you're keeping score in a kind of conventional like power point of view military power and alliances you would have to say iran is doing well because they haven't yet lost an ally and their enemies have lost a few or i actually soraya has a new interesting point maybe america hasn't lost egypt or tunisia but it's certainly not the same kind of knee jerk support that you could count on from

mubarak and ben ali that you have now you have a much more chaotic situation or america so i would say right now iran is winning however a big question mark is syria although i have something contrarian to say i hope people will jump in which is that in syria in a way saudi arabia iran and the united states. and even israel here kind of see eye to eye and trying to keep it going i mean nobody's really pulled the plug on assad least of all the united states ok mohamed if i go to you in toronto i mean united states israel and saudi arabia working together or do you see that in regard to syria and iran and iran go ahead you know. well i i think that with regards to syria. the turks are also concerned because they are they have the form of islam that dominates and turkey is is not the islam

and it's much more mild and there is a large allawi population and a minority population in sort of his well as well as as well as a kurdish population so turkey two does not have an interest in syria falling if syria falls i think that as your previous case pointed out correctly. no one will really win even i think perhaps even the saudis would be the biggest flu. because if the salahi's in syria are much more hardcore then. than in egypt and if if syria falls then jordan will i think definitely i think fall and saudi arabia will be more surrounded than before because right now the saudis have very poor relations with iraq with iran with bahrain obviously. in yemen things are very unstable there is

a weak central government the north of yemen who these have very poor relations with the saudis because of the bombing of their villages by the saudi regime last year and in this out there and they're salahi's which are there hostile towards the saudis despite the fact that the saudi ruling family is itself so i think that if jordan falls the saudis will be in a lot of trouble especially with the situation in egypt they're not very friendly with the soviets now either so serious that you're very busy. go ahead john jump in jonathan go ahead i didn't i think that's a big leap to say that because there is this term that my aronian for and use as they call the opposition in syria solid fist that's a pretty binary look i mean it's syria there's a lot of people opposed to assad right now there are variances druze in the south are there although we've religion there are sunni sudanese in the villages and

banias who are being massacred there the city for cool going home so i mean to say it is very sad i see that now is all of this and i don't mean to say that it was anything but i miss it i mean there was a gentleman gentlemen we're. going to jump jumping. thank you when going to his speaker is believes that it's to the interests of both america and saudi iran israel and what have you to in a way back syria i tend to disagree because then i would have to ask why is it that the united states is funding the opposition or funding a satellite television in london the television to broadcast anti regime propaganda into syria and i just hate that people against the regime so it's very hard for me to believe that. i mean. let's go back to let's go back to go ahead before we go to the break i think to be honest i

think that americans and israelis are are somewhat confused in their position because as you could guess in the united states pointed out the americans are playing a role here and so are american allies in lebanon. really is is is fun being groups within syria and the saudis are deeply involved in all of this but as i pointed out earlier i wasn't saying that the opposition to the syrian government is just some method but what i'm saying is that the concern in turkey is that the overthrow of the government would have very negative consequences for them that is how they apparently feel about it but i don't think the americans i think that as pointed out the americans and their allies they've had a role in the us in syria and i'm not saying that the syrian government is is that you know ordinary people who are killed that's a good thing but the fact that there are soldiers who are also being killed show

that it's not simply a revolution or an uprising in the sense and i think again your. job you're going to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on iran state with r.t. . says . it's one. download the official t.m. placation phone the i pod touch from the i choose i'm still. the jaunty life on the go. see video on demand keys money fuel costs

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your media projects and free media and on the hard teat on tom. the for. her. playing the game system. and. welcome back to crossfire. to remind you we're discussing what's next for a round in light of the arab awakening. ok jonathan i'd like to go back to you in london we were talking about the nature of the syrian regime in opposition and who benefits when things go wrong there go

ahead jonathan well i think it's important to note that what's happening in syria in the villages and cities of syria is not something that the americans are still high rereads or cooking up or even the saudis it is really an indigenous revolt against what i call a mafia rule about twenty five persons just about twenty five persons no more that have a run that run this country like it's their own a.t.m. machine that's the real fundamental problem i agree that the americans and the israelis have been very slow and uncertain to support the opposition i think the saudis likewise but clearly the fall of saddam would hurt iran and therefore you iran has every interest in pro-trade this is more of an evenhanded battle between tanks on the one hand and arm on arm civilians on the other it's simply not even handed i don't think that's trying it a ok mom and dad this are just very briefly i just want to say that he that's not what he how he was putting it iran is calling on the syrian government to move

forward with reforms but at the same time there is absolutely no doubt that the so these are deeply involved and that doesn't mean that since then there is no legitimate grievances in syria but you have to keep in mind that unlike mubarak. a sad president assad would has been able to bring huge crowds into damascus and other major cities so he is not without his supporters his foreign policy has been popular among his own people and. make statements of his own people at least so it's not as if the. it's a one sided game he is partner and he has many enemies but i think i'm no expert on syria so i have to wait and see what happens so i i'd like to ask you a question it's interesting i like a point you brought up earlier in the program about intentions and what. making your syria unstable for a possible regime change is that just maybe the united states and its allies are just looking for it playing out

a number of different options simultaneously and seeing which one is most attractive when they get to a point where they find it is attractive but it's not contradictory to have different different approaches. that's very true i mean it would not be very wise to have just one plan they always have a prime b. and c. but they the united states clearly failed when he was when he invaded countries and made it bankrupt now it's time to run cheaper way of undermining the regimes that are not friendly towards it and in fact. in two thousand and ten head of israeli security interests i can ask then said that syria is the biggest threat to israel and if they continue on the path they're continuing they would. send israel back to this nine hundred sixty seven borders and so syria is a huge concern if israel's for one thing they want the golan heights back and israel will not negotiate on that and i think any analysts that would agree that

the united states foreign policy is there to cater to israel as national interest and that there'd be chaos and obviously the foreign country i disagree for some reason jonathan i thought you would go right ahead. i think that's ludicrous that's absolutely nonsense israel has enjoyed thirty two years or peace with syria on the golan heights they are absolutely delighted with the stability they have with syria and that's precisely the reason why they're not pushing to have thrown under the truck the way obama threw mubarak under the truck there are different situation each country is different but it's already got he was going in syria you know it's a struggle to support it right go ahead good point well i think that the israelis definitely do not like the syrian president hamas this time we. are all

supported in fact by syria and syria is the only neighbor of israel besides lebanon which is a very different case all to. gather that hasn't signed a border agreement with with israelis they are in a still affectively in a state of war and the situation changes in egypt and of course it's complicated who knows what's going to happen in egypt but i think that whether the americans like it or not there are forces at play in egypt will that will cause more pressure on the government to to support the people in gaza and i think that in general when you have a situation with them like that with syria which is supporting these groups and then you have a new situation in gaza israel is will definitely be feeling more and more uncomfortable play the least so. go ahead is really going on with the way ahead mind boggling my it's mind boggling that jonathan should say they've lived in peace for thirty two years the syrian the israelis and syrians whereas in fact

a couple of years ago they bombed illegally the syrian nuclear program and again as professor marandi in tehran said they have never never been there have never had a good relationship with syria and the what bothers israel more than anything in fact is the fact that syria has always been remade in our life iran and iran for israel is approving that and the other an iranian threat that their own creates an israel wouldn't be getting the aid from the united states it wouldn't be acting the way it does without anybody stopping their illegal activities and their murders and their. encroaching on palestinian lands ok jonathan i want to change gears here i'd like to think about the paper that you wrote your recent paper on iran let's talk about how if we call it a revolution a revolt or awakening or spring or whatever it we want to all collectively call it

what's happening in north africa and how is it going to affect iran. on the ground on the ground well that's a that's a piss that's a difficult one to say i think iran have found a formula for crushing the opposition in two thousand and nine after the fraudulent elections allegedly fraudulent elections where ahmadinejad's allegedly won sixty five percent of the vote and then you had an amass outpouring of people in the cities of tehran but ultimately through a combination of group force. and in any event what happened in north to in north africa is is really quite different they may have learned some twitter techniques from the iranian revolution but what happened in iran what happened in tunisia and egypt were fundamentally found this really is going to take traced back to israel has suddenly. well i think last night what are your sort of he's a hero here he was not even on here. look look i could make appliances i mean i'd

probably wait every just once a while cranked right there where i didn't finish my point i didn't finish my point i mean you're you're so upset with america and with israel i'm trying to say that what the arab spring is a proud it's a proper lack of governance is about the lack of personal freedom it's about a lot of things that petunia asian of the egyptian people so i wouldn't say that it was impacted by iran however i would say that the problems that the people of tunisia and egypt are suffering from are not different from the problems that people iranians are in iran are suffering from a professor marandi i want you going completely i jump in well first of all very quickly in iran i didn't vote for mr ahmadinejad i'm not a fan of mr ahmadinejad but he won the elections legitimately there was absolutely no fraud the polls carried out by american showed at the polls carried out by iranians showed it and even mousavi as representative in the ministry of interior

who had forty thousand volunteers said specifically five days after the election that there was no fraud but regardless of iran what is heart with north africa they should have good governance is very important i agree with you completely on that and the issue of corruption and dignity but also i think what is very important regardless of who is managing these revolutions in which direction it is taking that people of the region are very angry towards their leaders for blindly supporting the united states and aiding. the united states in its support for apartheid policies in palestine the people of the region dislike israel immensely not because they are jewish but because there is a zionist ideology that dominates the land and the people of palestine are treated as target they're not treated as human beings and that is very central to how people in this region feel so ryan we want to chime in on that. i do agree with

professor marandi one hundred percent i also want to point out that yes iran does deal with protests but also i understand that the support for the regime in iran comes from the people like the. scenario it's an easy where was the united states and israel in support of this country's so if if even if there is an uprising in iran it to me george if the people do support the regime and the president and this so if number ok jonathan and i get wind of i.q. and one of course at the center of american foreign go right ahead thunderstruck write a bill and alice says but i don't know where to begin i think it's utter nonsense or nonsense the iranian people do not support your army and people do not support medina giada it's art or nonsense and human rights violations of my leisure i are not read right away excuse me sir i am speaking now you listen yes human rights

violations compare compare tanks in syria shooting unarmed civilians compare with a question as you did to poor neda in tehran that compared that to whatever you think israelis are doing ok what does that mean is it legal to train your dragon already sold are sorry you are saying property this is the heroin problem your wonderful job i put off your friends yeah yeah i do for a laugh if you care to show they share marshall when osama bin ladin there was a caption last week on sky news or some of bin ladin says there were not be peace in palestine until the rights of palestinians there be interrupted care marshall who was watching the massacre in homs of syrian supported by iran by the way of syrian tanks and to march or so come off it everybody i talk to from bank. see

through to cairo to to to tunisia and now here and holmes says we reject the big lie the bedroom lies that says it's israel is for paul ryan only your money is on the. way what america took their martial arts right this is pretty high way years ago you got to. go for a dome that's what all right i'm sorry we're running out of time so some time we're just running out of time thank you for this very spirited debate many thanks to my guest today in turan london and in irvine and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. can .

download the official t.m.p. cation q on the phone the i pod touch from the consumption. of life on the go. video on demand keys mindful of costs and says features now in the palm of your. question. call.