in seeing from the streets of canada. for asians to rule the day. welcome back here's a recap of the main stories on our t.v. the now former head of the international monetary fund is granted bail and placed under house arrest on charges of attempted rape but there are fears the euro won't survive without him. regime replacement president obama says he wants an immediate transition of power in syria he was giving a keynote speech outlining america's policies in the middle east. outrage in the

belly reuss over the cases of opposition leaders jailed for allegedly inside to rest on election day their supporters say it was a start up like a country seemingly permanent residents of the middle east of the rest of the fall of regimes law loyal to the united states have left washington scrabbling to revise its foreign policy well up next cross-talk discusses where america's future focus might lie. lowing walking across town computor a little a loveless marriage or

a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american relations probably can't get any worse barring a complete breach where is this troubled relationship going and can both sides find a common language regarding the fate of afghanistan. you can. start. to cross talk pakistani u.s. relations i'm joined by our men my g.d.r. in washington he's a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute and islamabad we have seen a sad case she is a security analyst and columnist and in tucson we cross the labor hudson she's an associate professor at the university of arizona all right folks this is cross talk means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at where this troubled relationship stands now. pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on the collision course both say they're committed to fighting

terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but i can hear us navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact that the world's most wanted was discovered in the camp owned near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the us have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some about colleagues in the oceans. have deep reservations about whether it. is the same goals were prepared to be a full partner in pursuing those schools and there are calls in some quarters in progress for a shift in. april. less

there is an improvement in the current situation while american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani counterparts pakistanis have paired all of his asians and denounced washington's unilateralist according to slam of the us us time and again violated pakistan's sovereignty and not only this back instantly nightly in avoiding all qaeda it has in fact equally reminded big us that it too has been a victim of terrorism such baseless speculation may make exciting cable news but it doesn't reflect fact pakistan has as much reason to despise al qaeda as any nation and the war on terrorism is as much pakistan's war as it is america's recently the obama administration and its allies in congress have been scrambling to keep sanctions from spiraling out of control i mean washington say they want to reconsider aid to pakistan approximately twenty billion dollars over the last decade but if you want to provoke pakistan into shutting down transit routes but

supply u.s. troops stationed in afghanistan. our partnerships including our close cooperation with pakistan have helped put. pressure on al qaeda and its leadership continued cooperation will be just as important in the days and those days ahead are all about a renewed focus on afghanistan where there is little evidence that foreign troops can capture and kill more insurgents than their presence helps to recruit and the obama administration knows that the status quo in its relations with pakistan is unlikely to remain and also realizes that since you're in pakistan's cooperation is vital to its strategic goals in the region. charnel across talks are. ok i'd like to go to you first in tucson you got up first this morning for the program we just heard some words from my u.s.

secretary of state clinton about how important this relationship is but a few hours ago we had defense secretary gates say the following if i were in pakistani shoes i would say i've really i've already paid a price i've been humiliated it's been shown that the americans can come in here and do this with impunity now that is gloating here so even within the administration there seems to be a huge difference in how to approach this where do we go from here because the americans are saying this is an important relationship but you should feel humiliated and we will do it again if we want how do you how do you square the circle there. well i think what's going on first of all is that we're on the eve of an obama administration reset of american policy not only in pakistan afghanistan but also throughout the whole middle east so we are coming up on what we think will be a major speech by obama in which he doesn't actually directly address this

particular case but using the example of egypt shows how he wants to read the gauge the leverage that the united states exerts over some of its military partners in this case namely egypt i think the stage is being set for this reset with a kind of a good cop bad cop routine within the the american administration some people are acting as the good cops carry perhaps clinton. tending to their traditional allies the relationship with pakistan and emphasizing you know that this codependent relationship is still central and very important while others obama himself. gates and mullen are emphasizing the harder and in their bad cop role emphasizing. an attempt to put america in the

driver's seat and to use their our military aid and leverage. to pummel the pakistanis into. a more compliant relationship with us in test whether that will work remains to be seen well it remains to be seen if if i get out my washington if i am pakistanis will like their good cop bad cop approach because they can do exactly that to the united states if they wish they have a lot of cards actually don't pick. yes indeed they do have i think it is important to highlight the fact that the united states and pakistan they have conflicting interests in afghanistan and also into region and that has been the nature of the relationship between islamabad and washington for the past five decades indeed during the cold war we noticed. pakistan as main enemy was india india and i said allied with pakistan because of the soviet union and it is the

same today the united states is fighting the taliban and al qaeda and its associated and i've ganesan why pakistan and its army and intelligence service support some of the groups who are killing americans and afghans inside afghanistan and also are victimizing the people inside pakistan as well so what's important at this time is for both sides what what's important now for both sides is to align their interests and rethink their relationship because this is not sustainable. and above all it's important for pakistan to rethink its policy into a region to our east india and afghanistan as well suck using terrorism as a policy tool and instead cooperate with the united states and the international community to eliminate the terrorist group which is. operating freely on its soil and i think that the killing of that

a large and provides very good opportunity to start with again i think it is lima but what about i mean we talk about. obama tried that before there wasn't much success that was before the great awakening and what kind of reset this islamic jihad want to have with washington again we know it takes two to tango in this relationship and is it was just pointed out islam and has a lot of cards to play. there is some of our parents have a lot of cards to play but is from about also is in a bind its internal security situation is inch chatter it's. terror attacks all over the country and the us drone strikes in the tribal belt and now crossing over into have been carrying out a unilateral military operation go against the sentiments of a population that is not about to take into account this is a democratic government. also the entire us.

sort of agenda against the intelligence community in pakistan strategic intelligence community in pakistan has been whipped up against a background of these strikes which are considered aggressive by the pakistani population so rather than giving the democratic. community in pakistan a chance to actually reset the relationship internally between the civil and the military and redefine it for all times to come it has made them come to the embassy introduce community to to put try to protect them because the intel people of pakistan are also the same opinion they think this is a conspiracy against pakistan they're trying to cut off the head of the pakistan military and a headless body as you know is useless very easy to conquer so the manner in which the us s. r. rating inside pakistan is not helping any of the stakeholders in pakistan that's one thing if i don't know if i got

a truce on here what do you think about that because congress is threatening to take money away from the bridge the huge age parkas that was given last year i mean again i mean is this just treating pakistan is a truant child because the sentiment in pakistan is very anti-american as was pointed out. you know i think that's a very it's a very tricky game to play i think it's absolutely correct to say that to the extent that the united states is perceived to be is acting unilaterally gloating taking a heavy hand one of the risks that is run is of alienating the palace of the pakistani opulence and trenching support within the military intelligence establishment i think this is not the goal i think the endgame in fact of the obama administration is to try and preserve some of the larger structure of the alliance

while again shifting some of the internal support away from the most unpredictable and erratic elements of the military intelligence structure. towards other elements in the pakistani establishment again it is a very tricky policy and i think the reflection of this good cop bad cop approach to the problem shows that the obama administration is trying again to lead from behind trying to push its leverage in certain ways without inflaming the situation further but again it's a very difficult role to play i come back again to the case of egypt where in fact let me jump in here with really let me. go to a break after the break you discussed afghanistan r.t. .

if you will. i. didn't start all of a sudden. it's a long story of destroying the living down there how much out. there are constant or something down here when they get done like that. if you took every fisherman out of the water and you do something about that water. protecting the habitat the fisheries it's going to collapse nature's steps making way for the talks are just as you look around museum and see that all the solar. obviously everybody here must be well off income to speak road systems to great number that's true. and yet billions of dollars oil and gas state.

real baby drill. one needs from their two clusters and one type of pressure will consider potential areas for development in south atlantic and the gulf of mexico. and. hungry for the flu we've got. the biggest issues get a human voice ses to face with the news makers on the party. and. welcome back to our computer a little to remind you we're talking about u.s.

and pakistan after in life. you can. ok i've got to go back to you in washington here we haven't mentioned the eight hundred pound gorilla in this discussion that's getting out of afghanistan the u.s. wants to get out of afghanistan now the pakistanis one thing americans out of pakistan but they just have different visions and doing that that's what's causing all this tension here isn't it least at this stage here with all of the gloating that we have heard. yes absolutely afghanistan. is a very contentious issue between the united states and pakistan as and i mentioned before the united states and pakistan have conflicting interests in afghanistan. the taliban and his associates are the enemies of americans and the afghan government while they are supported by certain circles within the pakistani establishment this year two thousand and eleven will be

a very critical year and afghanistan in july the obama administration is planning to withdraw. begin withdrawal of troops from the camp three and also it is a beginning of transition of security responsibilities to security forces and after have been allowed in scaling now the critical software here in the united states as well they're there they're trying to convince and ministration to call it mission accomplished and leave afghanistan but i think that will be very much huge mistake because i've been allowed and it's gone the terror infrastructure and the ideology is there as we saw the taliban announces july first spring offensive and we've seen a spike of violence all across the country and the dead are even foreign fighters in eastern afghanistan fighting so if the united states withdraw me prematurely

that would be very much a huge mistake as washington abandoned afghanistan in one thousand eight hundred nine and when it comes to the relations between d. and isis and pakistan there are also misconceptions that did elations will improve if the united states withdraw from afghanistan but i believe that the opposite holds true here if the united states prematurely leaves afghanistan that will convince pakistan and its military. to continue a support for the taliban because they will see that the taliban. future of afghanistan so what it's needed now for washington to do is to show. a commitment to afghanistan because to succeed in afghanistan means that pakistan also will change its calculus from supporting the taliban instead of that. legitimate ways to have strategic loss or influence in the country ok if i go back to islam about so i guess it's all about who controls afghanistan not the afghans themselves are never

mentioned in all this it's going to come from islamabad where it's going to be washington ok and they have their puppet there is karzai that they want to support so i mean what is the vision from the pakistani establishment how do they want to see the americans leave destabilizing the country even more. where you know the pakistani establishment. has clearly shown his preference for the establishment of a trade corridor through afghanistan connecting to pakistan connecting to the arabian sea and they want it done in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility and harmony between all this they called us and all the states in the region they want friendly government in afghanistan they want a friendly government in india and of course friendly governments in central asian states that connector afghanistan. in this entire matter pakistan does not see the us helping the us has done absolutely nothing to.

sort of bring about a more harmonious relationship between india and pakistan in fact every time they just sort of you know they are like this is none of our business we don't have to do this but they're very much involved in the region they're right in the middle between pakistan and the central asian countries trade relationships with the central asian countries can actually bring a lot of prosperity to pakistan and the u.s. lending is troops right smack in the middle there has ended up hurting pakistan's economic. prospects so given their their activity in the region given their deep involvement in the region given its impact on pakistan and is in katine and it's politics america saying we don't have to interfere in part relations this is a bilateral matter they should carry it out between themselves just not in their american position to that of the pakistani position the pakistani government the

pakistani people the pakistani military looks at it in a very suspicious way you know they then of course like i said before the american military conduct in the region the american drone strikes the american lack of respect for pakistan's sovereignty to new is continuous criticism of the pakistani military intelligence continuous. fissions voiced about it but if you are so suspicious why do you call it at the front line speed why do you call it an alliance against terror and i mean i love my skin or think built on suspicions you i don't have to be suspicious you know i don't have to say you're not with us or you have to say you. guys and it's actually united states of america which is constantly not it has not taken a clear position on this issue and it's causing a lot of confusion inside pakistan also. it has come to a point where quite honestly if you ask me the relationship has broken down it's

a question of time before both sides are going to have to articulate it right it gets it's very needy and i can also use your. brain. just to just response to my colleague from islamabad. the pakistani government the pakistani people want friendly relations and all systems. in india and afghanistan i would agree with that but i think there she is talking about the civilian government and now run by the president's out of body but unfortunately this of indian government in pakistan is in no position to run its foreign policy and decide on major national issue is but it is usually decided by the army and intelligence service policy and television service are pursuing is not in line with the civilian government policies for example the existence of osama bin ladin the number one terrorist around the world just one mile from. pakistan's main

military academy which is this. year's version off with quite chose that to what extent they are supporting terrorism in the region. so i believe that when we are saying that this villian government supports stability that means nothing when they have no say in major foreign policy as well if i can go to you into something and i mean if i carry through really quickly i want to go. you know i just wanted to say even in the handling of the bin ladin's hand if you're not a space of america had just shown our body just that of body it would have enabled us to begin conference in pakistan to go after there or going to meant in the i.s.i. is there are any it would have enabled it to take the nation on board and say you know we're not going to question our own intelligence agencies but what is going on inside our country everybody would have said that but we're not showing up body

rushing into the sea dumping it there is giving birth to what the americans love to call the conspiracy theories you know something we have to look at what is of this operation so what i'm saying is the american contractor in. south central asia right now is rather clumsy ok i'm glad you got it i want to go to you and to sign i mean it's only a matter of time before the united states leaves afghanistan and we knew we could put it out another ten years or so but the pakistanis and the taliban are various elements of the film and they're just waiting and waiting for that ok and they've shown a lot of a lot of staying power here so again you know i mean the americans are fewer and fewer cards there's a lot of bluster and gloating and maybe it's all about domestic politics and budgets and things like that but if you end of the day the americans will leave it will be the people on the ground good people or bad people or indifferent people who will decide the outcome well i think we've already heard the beginnings of this process happening so there's more and more talk about accommodating the taliban in

the long run again after this there. the war on terror. in fact the end game does involve. a merging of the pakistani vision of afghanistan and the u.s. mission in afghanistan in order to do that however that's where i think we're getting this bluster and this gloating and. the bad cop part of the u.s. strategy in order to do that for domestic purposes within the united states. there is this strategy of ramping up. the incursions ramping up the drone strikes ramping up the gloating and again to the extent that. undermines. the civilian of the rather weak civilian structures in pakistan it's a very dangerous game to what extent does this american strategy really

sideline the military intelligence complex and to what extent does it actually increase the confusion increase popular support increase animosity and the accidental the so-called accidental guerrilla syndrome on both sides of the border it's hard to tell at this point again you have two different options here will the obama administration leverage its considerable influence in pakistan. again on the egyptian model in which it seems to have come around leverage the egyptian military into a much more sustainable situation going forward or will it continue to look like the israeli model in which the beast continues to be fed and which netanyahu is literally looking over obama's shoulder as he makes this resets each for the middle east and in which the the regional so-called u.s.

proxy actually continues to drive the relationship so will it go ok i want you to hear a word we want to hear you the only way in washington will you be the last word you got about twenty five seconds go ahead. just quickly i'd like to mention that i think that we have overstating the power and also influence of the american policy is that inside pakistan i think that most of the problems that we see inside pakistan it's not as a result of the u.s. policies it's because of domestic policies so it's a very good opportunity for pakistan to do some soul searching turkey five thousand innocent pakistani people have been murdered by a terrorist activities over the past nineteen years so it is time for the. real with the of time your time here many thanks my guest today in washington islam about and in tucson and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you

next time and remember prostate. if you want to.