welcome back here's a recap of the main stories we're covering here are the former i.m.f. chief who is accused of sexual assault all the time for house arrest after you graduate in one million dollars but there are concerns the scandal surrounding his resignation might jeopardize the financial aid given to the economies and even the survival of the euro currency. is really the u.s. relations are being tested ahead of prime minister netanyahu calling me to the president obama is really neutered last night obama sternly your call for

palestinian borders to be stopped what they were indictment sixty seven. japanese for the world's worst nuclear crisis since for noble has posted a record loss of fifteen billion dollars while the head of the company's resigned as workers and battle of the fukushima power plant where meltdowns been recorded in its reactors. well the middle east all the rest of the fall of regimes law loyal to the united states subgraph washington scrabbled to revise its foreign policy a lot next cross-talk discusses where america's future focus might lie. hungry for the full story we've got. the biggest issues get a human voice ceased to face with the news makers on the party. kick.

to. follow in welcome across town i'm peter little a loveless marriage or a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american relations probably can't get any worse barring a complete breach where is this troubled relationship going and can both sides find a common language regarding the fate of afghanistan. he. crossed out pakistani u.s. relations i'm joined by our men my g.d.r. in washington he's a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute and islamabad we have seen a sad case she is a security analyst and columnist and in tucson we cross the hudson she is an associate professor at the university of arizona all right folks this is crossed out that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at where this troubled relationship stands now. there are pakistan and the

u.s. strategic allies on a collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geopolitical interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but after the u.s. navy seal raid that killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the campout near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some will go to colleagues in the oceans . deep reservations about whether it. is the same goals or prepared to be a full partner in pursuing those goals and there are calls in some quarters in

chorus for a shift in the aid program. less there is an improvement in the church iteration while american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani counterparts pakistanis have shared all it is asians and denounced washington's unilateralist according to islam of the us this time and again valuing pakistan's sovereignty and not only dispatches don't deny even in the vetting or qaeda it has infallibly reminded the west that it too has been a victim of terrorism such baseless speculation may make exciting cable news but it doesn't reflect the fact pakistan has as much reason to despise al qaeda as any nation the war on terrorism is as much pakistan's war as it is america has recently the obama administration and its allies in congress have been scrambling to contentions from spiraling out of control mean washington say they want to

reconsider aid to pakistan approximately twenty billion dollars over the last decade but if you want to provoke pakistan into shutting down transit routes that supply list troops stationed in afghanistan. our partnerships including our close cooperation with pakistan have helped put precedented pressure. and its leadership continued cooperation will be just as important in the days ahead and those days ahead are all about a renewed focus on afghanistan where there is little evidence that foreign troops can capture and kill more insurgents than their presence helps to recruit and the obama administration knows that the status quo in its relations with pakistan is unlikely to remove it also realizes that securing pakistan's cooperation is vital to its strategic goals in the region. across the are.

ok i'd like to go to you first in tucson you got up first this morning for the program we just heard some words from one u.s. secretary of state clinton about how important this relationship is but a few hours ago we had defense secretary gates say the following if i were in pakistani shoes i would say i've really i've already paid a price i've been humiliated it's been shown that the americans can come in here and do this with impunity now that is gloating here so even within the administration there seems to be a huge difference in how to approach this where do we go from here because the americans are saying this is an important relationship and you should feel humiliated and we will do it again if we want how do you how do you square the circle there. well i think what's going on first of all is that we're on the eve of an obama administration reset american policy not only in pakistan afghanistan but also throughout the whole middle east so we

are coming up on what we think will be a major speech by obama in which he doesn't actually directly address this particular case but using the example of egypt shows how he wants to read the gauge the leverage that the united states exerts over some of its military partners in this case namely egypt i think the stage is being set for this reset with a kind of a good cop bad cop routine within the the american administration some people are acting as the good cops carry perhaps clinton. tending to the traditional allied relationship with pakistan and emphasizing you know that this codependent relationship is still central and very important while others obama himself. gates and mullen are emphasizing the harder and in their bad cop are all

emphasizing. attempts to put america in the driver's seat and to use their our military aid and leverage. to pummel the pakistanis into. a more compliant relationship with us in test whether that will work remains to be seen well it remains to be seen if washington if the arab pakistanis will like their good cop bad cop approach because they can do exactly that to the united states if they wish they have a lot of hard for actually go. yes indeed they do have i think it is important to highlight the fact that the united states and pakistan they have conflicting interests and in afghanistan and also in the region and that has been the nature of the relationship between islamabad and washington for the past five

deek it's indeed during the cold war we notice that pakistan has i mean enemy was india but in the united states allied to it pakistan because of the soviet union i mean it is the same today the united states is fighting the taliban and al qaeda and its associated and i began to stand pakistan and its army and intelligence service support some of the groups who are killing americans and afghans inside afghanistan and also victimizing to any people inside pakistan as well so what's important to decide for both sides what what's important now for both sides is to align their interests and retain their relationship because this is not sustainable and for above all it's important for pakistan to rethink its policy in the region to our east india and afghanistan as well stop using terrorism as a policy tool and instead cooperate with the united states and international community to eliminate the terrorist group which is. operating freely on

its soil and i think that the killing of a large and provides very good opportunity to started again i think it is lying about what about i mean we talk about our research obama tried that before he wasn't much success that was before the great awakening but what kind of reset this is bad want to have with washington again we know it takes two to tango in this relationship and it's really just pointed out islam has a lot of cards to play. there is some of our does have a lot of cards to play but islam about also is in a bind its internal security situation is inch tatters there are terror attacks all over the country and the us drone strikes in the tribal belt and now crossing over into abbottabad and carrying out a unilateral military operation go against the sentiment of the population that is

now about to take into account this is a democratic government. also the entire us. sort of agenda against the intelligence community in pakistan the strategic intelligence community in pakistan has been against it background of these strikes which are considered aggressive by the pakistani population so rather than giving the democratic. community in pakistan a chance to actually reset the relationship internally between the civil and the military and redefine it for all times to come it has made them come to the edge of the intelligence community to try to protect them because the intel is the people of pakistan are also the same working and they think this is a conspiracy against pakistan they're trying to cut off the head of the pakistan military and a headless body as you know is useless very easy to conquer so the manner in which

the u.s. is operating inside pakistan is not helping any of the stakeholders in pakistan that's one thing if i am i going to if i go to tucson here well what do you think about that because congress is threatening to take money away from the base the huge age package that was given last year i mean again i mean is this just treating pakistan is a truant child because the sentiment in pakistan is very anti-american as was pointed out. yeah well i think it's a very it's a very tricky game to play i think. salut correct to say that to the extent that the united states is perceived to be is acting unilaterally gloating taking a heavy hand one of the risks that his run is of alienating the palace of the pakistani oculus and trenching support within the military intelligence establishment i think this is not the goal i think the end game in fact of the

obama administration is to try and preserve some of the larger structure of the alliance while again shifting some of the internal support a way from the most unpredictable and erratic elements of the military intelligence structure. towards other elements in the pakistani establishment again it is a very tricky policy and i think the reflection of this good cop bad cop approach to the problem shows the obama administration is trying again to lead from behind trying to push its leverage in certain ways without inflaming the situation further but again it's a very difficult role to play i come back again to the case of egypt where in fact we were let me hear it really let me. break. this down.

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we've got the future covered. kick. start. the funny. welcome back to cross talk i'm curious about remind you we're talking about u.s. and pakistan after bin ladin. if you can. still. ok i've not had to go back to you in washington here we haven't mentioned the eight hundred pound gorilla in this discussion that's getting out of afghanistan the u.s. wants to get out of afghanistan now the pakistanis want the americans out of pakistan but they just have different visions and doing that that's what's causing all this tension here isn't it least at this stage where we're going to all of the gloating that we've heard. yes absolutely afghanistan. is

a very contentious issue between the united states and pakistan as and i mentioned before the united states and pakistan have conflicting interests in afghanistan. the taliban and its associates are the enemies of americans and the afghan government while they are supported by certain circles within the pakistani establishment this year two thousand and eleven will be a very critical year in afghanistan in july the obama administration is planning to withdraw. begin withdrawal of troops from the country and also it is a beginning of transition of security responsibilities to security forces i'm after been allowed in scaling now the critical software here in the united states as well they're there they're trying to convince an ministration to call it mission accomplished. leave afghanistan but i think that that will be very much huge

mistake because i've been allowed and it's gone the terror infrastructure and the ideology is still there as we saw the taliban announces july first spring off incentive and we've seen a spike of violence all across the country and there are even foreign fighters in eastern afghanistan fighting so if the united states prematurely that would be very much huge mistake that washington abandoned afghanistan in one thousand nine hundred nine and when it comes to the relations between the united states and pakistan there are also misconceptions. did elations will improve if the united states withdraw from afghanistan but i believe that the opposite holds true here if the united states. leaves afghanistan bethell confidence pakistan and its military. to continue its support for the taliban because they will see the taliban

. future of afghanistan so what it's needed now for washington to do is to show. commitment to afghanistan because to succeed in afghanistan means that pakistan also will change its calculus from supporting the taliban instead of that it was. legitimate ways to have strategic influence in the country ok if i go back to one of my so i guess it's all about who controls afghanistan not the afghans themselves are never mentioned in all this it's going to come from islamabad where it's going to be washington ok and they have their puppet there's karzai they do want to support so i mean what is the vision from the pakistani establishment but how do they want to see the americans leave destabilizing the country even more. when you know the pakistani establishment. has clearly shown his preference for the establishment of a trade corridor through afghanistan connected to pakistan connection to the

arabian sea and they want it done in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility and harmony between all the stakeholders in all the states in the region they want friendly government in afghanistan they want a friendly government in india and of course friendly governments in central asian states the connector of the sun. in this entire matter pakistan does not see the us helping the us has done absolutely nothing to. sort of bring about a more harmonious relationship between india and pakistan in fact every time they just sort of you know they they're like this is none of our business we don't have to do this they're very much involved in the region they're right in the middle between pakistan and the central asian countries trade relationship with the central asian countries can actually bring a lot of prosperity to pakistan and the u.s. lending his troops right smack in the middle there has ended up hurting pakistan's

economic. prospects so given their their activity in the region given their deep involvement in the region given its impact on pakistan and its economy and its politics america saying we don't have to interfere into a park relations this is a bilateral matter they should carry it out between themselves does not in darr american position to that of the pakistani position the pakistani government the pakistani people the pakistani military looks at it in a very suspicious way you know they then of course like i said before the american military conduct in the region the american drone strikes the american lack of respect for pakistan's sovereignty to new was continuous criticism of the pakistani military intelligence continuous. fissions voice about it well if you are so suspicious why do you call it at the front line state why do you call it an alliance against terror i mean my skin not built on suspicions you i don't have to

be suspicious you either have to say you're not with us or you have to say you are with us and it's actually a united states of america which is constantly not it has not taken a clear position on this issue and it's causing a lot of confusion inside pakistan also. it is coming to a point we're quite honestly if you ask me the relationship has broken down it's a question of time before both per side are going to have to take you laid it out right. it's very needy and its leader can also use your head very. just just a response to my colleague from islam about. the pakistani government the pakistani people want friendly relations and all systems anything in sneakers both in india and i would agree with that but i think there she is talking about the civilian government and now run by the president out of the id but unfortunately the

civilian government in pakistan is in no position to run its foreign policy and decide on major national issues but it is usually decided by the army and intelligence service probably says that the army and television service are pursuing is not in line with the civilian government policies for example the existence of osama bin ladin to number one terrorists around the world just one mile from. pakistan's main military academy which is their. version of point chose the to what extent they are supporting terrorism in the region so i believe that when we are saying that this villian government supports stability that means nothing when they have no say in major foreign policy well if i can go to you into something and i mean. really quickly you want to retire.

you know i just wanted to say even in the handling of the bin ladin that's had if united states of america had just shown body yes that party it would have enabled the civilian government in pakistan to go after they're all going to mince in the i.s.i. if there are any it would have been able to take the nation on board and say you know we are going to question our own intelligence agencies but what is going on inside our country everybody would have said that we're not showing the body rushing into the sea dumping it there is giving birth to what the americans last book called the conspiracy theories you know something we have to look at what it is of this operation so what i'm saying is the amount of contact in. south central asia right now is rather clumsy or damn glad you got it i want to go to you in tucson i mean it's only a matter of time before the united states leaves afghanistan and we can put out another ten years or so but the pakistanis are and the taliban are various elements of the taliban they're just waiting there waiting for that ok and they've shown

a lot of a lot of staying power here so again you know i mean the americans have fewer and fewer cards there's a lot of bluster and gloating and maybe it's all about domestic politics and budgets and things like that but a candidate the americans will leave it will be the people on the ground good people or bad people or indifferent people that will decide the outcome well i think we've already heard the beginnings of this process happening so there's more and more talk about accommodating the taliban in the long run again after this decade. of the war on terror in fact the end game does involve. you know a merging of the pakistani vision of afghanistan and the u.s. mission in afghanistan in order to do that however that's where i think we're getting this bluster and this gloating and. the bad cop part of the u.s.

strategy in order to do that for domestic purposes within the united states. there is this strategy of ramping up. the incursions ramping up the drone strikes ramping up the gloating and again to the stand that. undermines. the seville that the rather weak civilian structures in pakistan it's a very dangerous game to what extent does this american strategy really sideline the military intelligence complex and to what extent does it actually increase the confusion increase popular support increased animosity and the accidental the so-called accidental guerrilla syndrome on both sides of the border it's hard to tell at this point again you have two different options here will the obama administration leverage its considerable influence in pakistan.

again on the egyptian model in which it seems to have come around leverage the egyptian military into a much more sustainable situation going forward or will it continue to look like the israeli model in which the beast continues to be fed and which netanyahu is literally looking over obama's shoulder as he makes this reset speech for the middle east and in which the regional so-called u.s. proxy actually continues to drive the relationship so will it go ok i want you to hear our words we want to hear you the only way in washington will you be the last word we got about twenty five seconds go ahead. but just quickly i'd like to mention that i think that we are overstating the power and also influence of the american policy is that inside pakistan i think that most off the problems that we see inside pakistan it's not as a result of the u.s.

policies it's because of the domestic policies so it's a very good opportunity for pakistan to do some soul searching turkey five thousand innocent pakistani people have been murdered by a terrorist activities over the past nineteen years so it is time fardy i certainly haven't seen around the area with rome in time to run out of time here many thanks my guest today in washington islam about and in tucson and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember crosstalk. if. you want. more than a month. one of the most extreme environments on the flyers this is antarctica and

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