culture is that so much given to each musician because of the mark of a loveless marriage or a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american religion is probably can't get any worse barring a complete. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from the realms of. the future. lynn issues three liquidations three. four charges three arrangement three risk free. free.

download free market live video for your media project a free media dog to our teeth dot com. you can. follow him loving rostock i'm cuter a little a loveless marriage or a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american relations probably can't get any worse barring a complete breach where is this troubled relationship going and can paul sides find a common language regarding the fate of afghanistan live can. still live. to cross-talk pakistani u.s. relations i'm joined by argument my g.d.r. in washington is a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute and islamabad we

have seen a sad case she is a security analyst and columnist and in tucson we crossed the hudson she's an associate professor at the university of arizona all right folks this is crosstalk that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at where this troubled relationship stands now. pakistan and the u.s. strategic allies on the collision course both say they're committed to fighting terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but after the u.s. navy seal raid killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the compound near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on

a brave face coming to terms with the fact that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some of our colleagues in the oceans. deep reservations about whether it. is true but at the same goals we're prepared to be a full partner pursuing those girls and there are calls in some quarters in congress for a shift in. aid for. unless there is it improvement in the current situation while american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani counterparts pakistanis have paired all of his asians and denounced washington's unilateral as according to islam of the us this time and again value of pakistan's sovereignty and that only despite his don't deny it even in the betting al-qaeda it has and that equally reminded the us that he too has been a victim of terrorism such baseless speculation may make exciting cable news but it

doesn't reflect the fact pakistan has as much reason to despise al qaeda as any nation the war on terrorism is as much pakistan's war as it is america's recently the obama administration and its allies in congress have been scrambling to keep tensions from spiraling out of control many washington say they want to reconsider aid to pakistan approximately twenty billion dollars over the last decade but few want to provoke pakistan into shutting down transit with split supplies u.s. troops stationed in afghanistan. our partnerships including our close cooperation with pakistan have helped put precedented pressure on al qaeda and its leadership continued cooperation will be just as important in the days ahead and those days ahead are all about a renewed focus on afghanistan where there is little evidence that foreign troops

can capture and kill more insurgents than their presence helps to recruit and the obama administration knows the status quo in its relations with pakistan is unlikely to remove it also realizes that securing pakistan's cooperation is vital to its strategic goals in the region. across the are. ok i'd like to go to you first in tucson you got up first this morning for the program we just heard some words from one u.s. secretary of state clinton about how important this relationship is but a few hours ago we had defense secretary gates say the following if i were in pakistani shoes i would say i've really i've already paid a price i've been humiliated it's been shown that the americans can come in here and do this with impunity now that is gloating here so even within the administration there seems to be a huge difference in how to approach this where do we go from here because the americans are saying this is an important relationship but you should feel

humiliated and we will do it again if we want how do you how do you square the circle there. well i think what's going on first of all is that we're on the eve of an obama administration reset of american policy not only in pakistan afghanistan but also throughout the whole middle east so we are coming up on what we think will be a major speech by obama in which he doesn't actually directly address this particular case but using the example of egypt shows how he wants to read the gauge the leverage that the united states exerts over some of its military partners in this case namely egypt i think the stage is being set for this reset with a kind of a good cop bad cop routine within the the american administration some people are acting as the good cops carry perhaps clinton. tending to the traditional

allied relationship with pakistan and emphasizing you know that this codependent relationship is still central and very important well others obama himself. gates and mullen are emphasizing the harder and in their bad cop role emphasizing. an attempt to put america in the driver's seat and to use their our military aid and leverage. to pummel the pakistanis into. a more compliant relationship with us in test whether that will work remains to be seen remains to be seen if washington if i am pakistanis will like a good cop bad cop approach because they can do exactly that to the united states if they wish they have a lot of hard factually don't think. yes indeed they do have i think it is

important to highlight the fact that the united states and pakistan they have conflicting interests. in afghanistan and also in the region and that has been the nature of relationship between islamabad and washington for the past five decades indeed during the cold war we notice that pakistan has i mean any new us india but india and i'd say it allied with pakistan because of the soviet union and it is the same today the united states is fighting the taliban and al qaida and its associates and i vanished and. it's army and intelligence service supports some of the groups who are killing americans and out of here. inside afghanistan and also victimizing to practice any people inside pakistan as well so what's important in the distance for both sides what what's important now for both sides is to

align their interests and retain their relationship because this is not sustainable . and above all it's important for pakistan to rethink its policy in the region to our east india and afghanistan as well stop using terrorism as a policy tool and instead cooperate with the united states and international community to eliminate the terrorist group which is. operating freely on its soil and i think that the killing of a large and provides a very good opportunity to start it up again i think it islamic on what about that i mean if you talk about reset obama tried that before there wasn't much success before the great awakening but what kind of research because islamabad want to have with washington again we know it takes two to tango in this relationship and is it was just pointed out islam has a lot of cards to play. where islamic are girls have a lot of cards to play but islam about also is in

a bind its internal security situation is inch tasher it's there are terror attacks all over the country and the us drone strikes in the tribal belt and now crossing over into abbottabad and carrying out a unilateral military operation go against the sentiment of a population that islamabad has to take into account this is a democratic government. also the entire u.s. . sort of agenda against the intelligence community in pakistan the strategic intelligence community in pakistan has been a great talker against a background of these strikes which are considered aggressive by the pakistani population so rather than giving the democratic. community in party star a chance to actually reset the relationship internally between the civil and the military and redefine it for all times to come it has made them come to the aid of

the intelligence community to to cry to protect them because the intel is the people of pakistan are also the same or kenyan they think this is a conspiracy against pakistan they're trying to cut off the head of the pakistan military and a headless body as you know is useless very easy to conquer so the manner in which the u.s. is operating inside pakistan is not helping any of the stakeholders in pakistan that's one thing if i live i don't know if i go to tucson here well what do you think about that because congress is threatening to take money away from the day to the huge age power garbage that was given last year i mean again i mean is this just treating pakistan is a truant child because the sentiment in pakistan is very anti-american as was pointed out. you know i think it's a very it's a very tricky game to play i think. salut correct to say that to the extent that the united states is perceived to be is acting unilaterally gloating

taking a heavy hand one of the risks that this run is of alienating the palace of the pakistani populous entrenching support within the military intelligence establishment i think this is not the goal i think the endgame in fact of the obama administration is to try and preserve some of the larger structure of the alliance while again shifting some of the internal support a way from the most unpredictable and erratic elements of the military intelligence structure. towards other elements in the pakistani establishment again it is a very tricky policy and i think the reflection of this good cop bad cop approach to the problem shows that the obama administration is trying again to lead from behind trying to push its leverage in certain ways without inflaming the situation

further but again it's a very difficult role to play i come back again to the case of egypt where in fact let me jump in here with me we're going to go to a break and after the break you discussed afghanistan. rachel martin you're broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

getting started all of a sudden. it's a long story of destroying the living there how much on. there are constant feels something leaks out here when they get done with it it's just if you took every fisherman out of the water and do something about that water and. protect you can't attack the fisheries it's going to nature's steps making way for the talks just to see look around museum and see the solar system obviously a lot of humans well lost income must be road systems bigger number that's true.

and you have billions of dollars oil and gas space. real baby drill. one needs from there to plus some so someone my freshman consider potential areas for development in south atlantic the gulf of mexico. you can see. the full.

welcome back to cross talk i'm going to go to remind you we're talking about u.s. and pakistan after going live. to the streets. ok at night i go back to you in washington here we haven't mentioned the eight hundred pound gorilla in this discussion it's getting out of afghanistan the u.s. wants to get out of afghanistan now the pakistanis one thing americans out of pakistan but they just have different visions and doing that that's what's causing all this tension here isn't it lisa at this stage here with all of the gloating that we've heard. yes absolutely afghanistan. is a very contentious issue between the united states and pakistan as and i mentioned before the united states and pakistan have conflicting interests in afghanistan.

the taliban and its associates are the name is off americans and the afghan government while they are supported by certain circles within the pakistani establishment this year two thousand and eleven will be a very critical year and afghanistan in july the obama administration is planning to withdraw. begin withdrawal of troops from the country and it is a beginning of transition of security responsibilities to security forces and after have been allowed in scaling now the critics of the are here in the united states as well they're there they're trying to convince and ministration to call it mission accomplished and leave afghanistan but i think that will be very much huge mistake because i have been allowed and it's gone the terror infrastructure and the ideology is still there as we saw that the taliban announces july first spring offensive and we've seen

a spike of violence all across the country and the dead are even foreign fighters in eastern afghanistan fighting so if the united states army prematurely that would be very much a huge mistake that washington abandoned afghanistan in one thousand nine hundred nine and when it comes to the relations between the united states and down there are also misconceptions. did elations will improve if the united states withdraw from afghanistan but i believe that the opposite holds true here if the united states. leaves afghanistan that will convince pakistan and its military. to continue its support for the taliban because they will see the taliban. future of afghanistan so what it's needed now for washington to do is to show an enduring commitment to afghanistan because to succeed in afghanistan means that pakistan also will change its calculus from supporting the taliban instead of that it was

the. legitimate ways to have strategic tell also influence in the country ok if i go back to islam and so i guess it's all about who controls afghanistan not the afghans themselves are never mentioned in all this if it's going to come from islamabad or it's going to be washington ok and they have their puppet there is karzai that they want to support so i mean what is the vision from the pakistani establishment with how do they want to see the americans leave destabilizing the country even more. you know the pakistani establishment. has clearly shown his preference for the establishment of a trade corridor or through afghanistan connecting to pakistan connecting to the arabian sea and they want it done in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility and harmony between all display calder's and all the states in the region they want friendly government in afghanistan they want a friendly government in india and of course friendly governments and central asian

states that connect with afghanistan. in this entire matter pakistan does not see the us helping the us has done absolutely nothing to. sort of bring about a more harmonious relationship between india and pakistan in fact every time they just sort of you know they they're like this is none of our business we don't have to do this but they're very much involved in the region they're right in the middle between pakistan and the central asian countries trade relationship with the central asian countries can actually bring a lot of prosperity to pakistan and the u.s. lending is troops right smack in the middle there has ended up hurting pakistan's economic. prospects so given their their activity in the region given their deep involvement in the region given its impact on pakistan and is in katine and it's politics america saying we don't have to interfere in the

park relations this is a bilateral matter they should carry it out between themselves does not in their american position to that of the pakistani position the pakistani government the pakistani people the pakistani military looks at it in a very suspicious way you know they then of course like i said before the american military conduct in the region the american drone strike the american lack of respect for pakistan's sovereignty when he knew was continuous criticism of the pakistani military intelligence continues. suspicions worst about it but if you are so suspicious why do you call it at the front lines be it why do you call it an alliance against terror and i mean i love my skin or be built on suspicions i could have to be suspicious you know i don't have to say you're not with us or you have to say you. guys and it's actually united states of america which is constantly not it has not taken a clear position on this issue and it's causing

a lot of confusion inside pakistan also. it is come to a point where quite honestly if you ask me the relationship has broken down it's a question of time before both sides are going to have to articulate it right if it's very neatly and it peter can also european go ahead very. just just a response so my colleague from a slow about. the pakistani government the pakistani people want friendly relations and our sister believe the end state her support in india and afghanistan i would agree with that but i think that she is talking about the civilian government run by the president's out of body but unfortunately this indian government in pakistan is in no position to run its foreign policy and decide on major national issues but it is usually decided by the army and intelligence service probably says that the

army and television service are pursuing is not in line with the civilian government policies for example the existence of osama bin ladin the number one terrorist around the world just one mile from. pakistan's main military academy which is the. us version off with spy and chose that to what extent they are supporting terrorism in the region so i believe that when we are saying that this villian government supports stability means nothing when they have no say in major foreign policy is if i can go to you and do something and i mean if i marry the real quickly i want to go. you know i just wanted to say even in the handling of the bin not enough hand if united states of america had just shown our body just that of body it would have enabled the civilian government in pakistan to go after they're all going to ments in the i.s.i. if there are any it would have enabled it to take the nation on board and say you

know we are going to question our own intelligence agencies but what is going on inside our country everybody would have said that we're not showing our body rushing into the sea dumping it there is giving birth to what the americans last called the conspiracy theories you know something we have to look at the core what is of this operation so i want to i'm saying is the american context in. south central asia right now is rather clumsy or glad you got it i want to go to you and to sign i mean it's only a matter of time before the united states leaves afghanistan and we knew we could put out another ten years or so but the pakistanis are in the. various elements of the film and they're just waiting and waiting for that ok and they've shown a lot of a lot of staying power here so again you know i mean the americans have fewer and fewer cards there's a lot of bluster and gloating and maybe it's all about domestic politics and budgets and things like that but if you end of the day the americans will leave it

will be the people on the ground good people or bad people or indifferent people who will decide the outcome well i think we've already heard the beginnings of this process happening so there's more and more talk about accommodating the taliban in the long run again after this day. of the war on terror. in fact the end game does in goals. you know merging of the pakistani vision of afghanistan and the u.s. mission in afghanistan in order to do that however and that's where i think we're getting this bluster and this gloating and. the bad cop part of the u.s. strategy in order to do that for domestic purposes within the united states. there is this strategy of ramping up. the incursions ramping up the drone strikes ramping up the gloating and again to the extent that.

undermines. the seville the rather weak civilian structures in pakistan it's a very dangerous game to what extent does this american strategy really sideline the military intelligence complex and to what extent does it actually increase the confusion increase popular support increase animosity and the accidental the so-called accidental guerrilla syndrome on both sides of the border it's hard to tell at this point again you have two different options here will the obama administration leverage its considerable influence in pakistan. again on the egyptian model in which it seems to have come around leverage the egyptian military into a much more sustainable situation going forward or will it continue to look like

the israeli model in which the beast continues to be fed and which netanyahu is literally looking over obama's shoulder as he makes this resets each for the middle east and in which the regional so-called u.s. proxy actually continues to drive the relationship so will it go ok i want you to hear our words we want to hear you the only way in washington will you be the last word we got about twenty five seconds go ahead. just quickly i'd like to mention that i think that we are overstating the power and also influence of the american policy is inside pakistan i think that most of the problems that we see inside pakistan it's not as a result of the u.s. policies it's because of domestic policies so it's a very good opportunity for pakistan to do some soul searching turkey five thousand innocent pakistani people have been murdered by terrorist activities over the past

nineteen years so it is time for the really really enjoyed being here in the area we've run out of time to be around the time here many thanks my guest today in washington islam about and in tucson and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember crosstalk means. they'll. still. be. download the official t.m.p. cation to your hi phone or i pod touch from the i.q. saps to. see life on the. video on demand parties mindful of costs and r.s.s.

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