yes it says it's also you know it's celebration it's life or into life for some and death of death for others just like an eddie can't say the same they worry that their three daughters won't follow them to have it wary because they're still young they're small but we paid for them and said he was sleeping with them and for the listeners of family radio see it's impossible the world won't end tomorrow but for now we'll have to see which tomorrow brings you in for an artsy washington d.c. we'll have to see so enjoy your evening and hopefully your weekend but that's going to do it for now so in the meantime follow me on twitter before we have more news next week it's at lauren lyster and have a fantastic night. culture is that so much there's a huge with. the mark of a loveless marriage or a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american relations probably can't

get any worse barring a complete break. the same issues free credit stations three times for charges free amazement free risk free. free. download free broadcast live video for your media projects and free media don carty dot com. you can. follow in loving crosstown i'm peter local a loveless marriage or

a dangerous embrace take your pick but pakistani american relations probably can't get any worse barring a complete breach where is this troubled relationship going and can both sides find a common language regarding the fate of afghanistan. can still live. to cross-talk pakistani u.s. relations i'm joined by our men my g.d.r. in washington is a senior research associate at the american enterprise institute in islamabad we have seen assateague she is a security analyst and columnist and in tucson we crossed elaine hudson she's an associate professor at the university of arizona all right folks this is crossed out that means you can jump in anytime you want and i very much encourage it but first let's take a look at where this troubled relationship stands now. pakistan and the us two strategic allies on the collision course both say they're committed to fighting

terror though each in its own way and both have divergent ideas about geo political interests pakistani american relations have rarely been described as good but after the u.s. navy seal raid killed osama bin laden on may second the shaky alliance is finally in question the fact of the world's most wanted was discovered in the campaign near islamabad has deepened american distrust of pakistan even some of pakistan's biggest supporters in the u.s. have had to put on a brave face coming to terms with the five that pakistan may have been harboring bin laden for years it is fair to say that some of my colleagues in the house and senate deep reservations about whether it. is committed to same goals were prepared to be a full partner in pursuing those girls and there are calls in some quarters for a shift in. a program.

less there is an improvement in the current situation while american lawmakers may be losing faith in their pakistani counterparts pakistanis have pared all its positions and denounced washington's unilateral ism according to islamic the us this time and again value of pakistan's sovereignty and not only this pakistan tonight even in the vetting al-qaeda it has in fact equally reminded the us that it too has been a victim of terrorism such baseless speculation you make exciting cable news but it doesn't reflect the fact pakistan has as much reason to despise al qaeda as any nation the war on terrorism is as much pakistan's war as it is america's recently the obama administration and its allies in congress have been scrambling to keep tensions from spiraling out of control when washington say they want to reconsider aid to pakistan approximately twenty billion dollars over the last decade but few

want to provoke pakistan into shutting down transit routes if the player's troops stationed in afghanistan. our partnerships including our close cooperation with pakistan have helped put. pressure on al qaeda and its leadership continued cooperation will be just as important in the days and those days ahead are all about a renewed focus on afghanistan where there is little evidence that foreign troops can capture and kill more insurgents than their presence helps to recruit and though the obama administration knows the status quo in its relations with pakistan is unlikely to remain it also realizes that securing pakistan's cooperation is vital to its teaching goals in the region. cross-talk are. ok i'd like to go to you first in tucson you got up first this morning for the

program we just heard of some words from one u.s. secretary of state clinton about how important this relationship is but a few hours ago we had defense secretary gates say the following if i were in pakistani shoes i would say i've really i've already paid a price i've been humiliated it's been shown that the americans can come in here and do this with impunity now that is gloating here so even within the administration there seems to be a huge difference in how to approach this where do we go from here because the americans are saying this is an important relationship but you should feel humiliated and we will do it again if we want how do you how do you square the circle there. well i think what's going on first of all is that we're on the eve of an obama administration reset american policy not only in pakistan afghanistan but also throughout the whole middle east so we are coming up on what we think will be

a major speech by obama in which he doesn't actually directly address this particular case but using the example of egypt shows how he wants to read the gauge the leverage that the united states exerts over some of its military partners in this case namely egypt i think the stage is being set for this reset with a kind of a good cop bad cop routine within the the american administration some people are acting as the good cops carry perhaps clinton. tending to their traditional allies the relationship with pakistan and emphasizing you know that this codependent relationship is still central and very important while others obama himself. gates and mullen are emphasizing the harder and in their bad cop are all emphasizing. an attempt to put america in the

driver's seat and to use their our military aid and leverage. to pummel the pakistanis into. a more compliant relationship with us in test whether that will work remains to be remains to be seen if oh if i go back in washington if the pakistanis will like their good cop bad cop approach because they can do exactly that to the united states if they wish they have a lot of cards actually don't think. yes indeed they do have i think it is important to highlight the fact that. it is c. and pakistan and they have conflicting interests and in afghanistan and also in the region and that has been the nature of relationship between islamabad and washington for the past five decades indeed during the cold war we notice that pakistan has mean any new us india but india and i said pakistan because of the

soviet union and it is the same today the united states is fighting the taliban and its associates in afghanistan. and its army and intelligence service supports some of the groups who are killing americans out here. inside afghanistan and also victimizing the pakistani people inside pakistan as well so what's important to decide is for both sides what what's important now for both sides is to align their interests and retain their relationship because this is not sustainable . and above all it's important for pakistan to rethink its policy in the region to our east india and afghanistan as well stop using terrorism as a policy tool and instead cooperate with the united states and international community to eliminate a good terrorist group which is. operating freely on its soil and i think that the

killing of a large and provides a very good opportunity to start with again i think it is lima but what about that i mean we talk about our research obama tried that before there wasn't much success before the great awakening but what kind of research because islamabad want to have with washington again we know it takes two to tango in this relationship and it was just pointed out is one that has a lot of cards to play. there is some of our parents have a lot of cards to play but islam about also is in a bind its internal security situation is inch tatters there are terror attacks all over the country and the us drone strikes in the tribal belt and now crossing over into abbottabad and carrying out a unilateral military operation go against the sentiment of the population that is not about to take into account this is a democratic government. also the entire u.s.

. sort of agenda against the intelligence community in pakistan's a strategic intelligence community in pakistan has been whipped up against a background of these strikes which are considered as aggressive by the pakistani population so rather than giving the democratic. community in pakistan a chance to actually reset the relationship internally between the civil and the military and redefine it for all times to come it has made them come to the aid of the intelligence community to try to protect them because the intel the people of pakistan are of the same opinion they think this is a conspiracy against pakistan they're trying to cut off the head of the pakistan military and a headless body as you know is useless very easy to conquer so the manner in which the u.s. is operating inside pakistan is not helping any of the stakeholders in pakistan

that's one thing if i you know i don't know if i'm going to tucson here well what do you think about that because congress is grading it to take money away from the very huge aged package that was given last year i mean again i mean is this just treating pakistanis or truant child because the sentiment in pakistan is very anti-american as was pointed out. you know i think it's a very it's a very tricky game to play i think. salut correct to say that to the extent that the united states is perceived to be is acting unilaterally gloating taking a heavy hand one of the risks that is run is a alienating the palace of the populace and entrenching support within the military intelligence establishment i think this is not the goal i think the endgame in fact of the obama administration is to try and preserve some of the

larger structure of the alliance while again shifting some of the internal support a way from the most unpredictable and erratic elements of the military intelligence structure. towards other elements in the pakistani establishment again it is a very tricky policy and i think the reflection of this good cop bad cop approach to the problem shows that the obama administration is trying again to lead from behind trying to push its leverage in certain ways without inflaming the situation further but again it's a very difficult role to play i come back again to the case of egypt where in fact let me. let me just we're going to go to war break and after the break we discussed afghanistan r.t. .

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. and. welcome back to talk i'm peter lavelle three mines you were talking about u.s. and pakistan after bin. i. can. say. ok i'd not like to go back to you in washington here we haven't mentioned the eight hundred pound gorilla in this discussion it's getting out of afghanistan the u.s. wants to get out of afghanistan the pakistanis want the americans out of pakistan but they just have different visions and doing that that's what's causing all this tension here isn't it least at this stage here would go all of the gloating that we've heard. yes absolutely afghanistan. is a very contentious issue between the united states and pakistan as and i mentioned before the united states and pakistan have conflicting interests in afghanistan.

the taliban and its associates are the enemies of americans and the afghan government while they are supported by certain circles within the pakistani establishment this year two thousand and eleven will be a very critical year in afghanistan in july the obama administration is planning to withdraw. begin withdrawal of troops from the country also it is a beginning of transition of security responsibilities to security forces and after have been allowed in scaling and now the critics of the are here in the united states as well. they are trying to convince and ministration to call it mission accomplished and leave afghanistan but i think that that will be very much huge mistake because i've been alive and it's gone but the terror infrastructure and the ideology is still there as we saw the taliban announce is july first spring offensive and we've seen

a spike of violence all across the country. there are even foreign fighters in eastern afghanistan fighting so if the united states withdraw me prematurely that would be very much huge mistake that washington abandon afghanistan in one thousand eight hundred nine and when it comes to the relations between the united states and pakistan there are also misconceptions that did elations will improve if the united states withdraw from afghanistan but i believe that the opposite holds true here if the united states prematurely leaves afghanistan that will convince pakistan and its military and i say stop the shrines you can keep your support for the taliban because the was he the taliban. future of afghanistan so what it's needed now for russia to do is to assure ensuring. afghanistan because to succeed in afghanistan means that pakistan also will change its calculus from

supporting the taliban and instead of that there was the. legitimity ways to have the strategic and also influence in the country ok if i go back to one of my so i guess it's all about who controls afghanistan not the afghans themselves are never mentioned in all this if it's going to come from islamabad or it's going to be washington ok and they have their cars i do want to support so i mean what is the vision from the pakistani establishment with how do they want to see the americans leave with destabilizing the country even more. when you know the pakistanis tabish meant. has clearly shown his preference for the establishment of a trade corridor through afghanistan connected to pakistan connection to the arabian sea and they want it done in an atmosphere of peace and tranquility and harmony between all the stakeholders and all the states in the region they want friendly government in afghanistan they want a friendly government in india and of course friendly governments in central asian

states that connector afghanistan. in this entire matter pakistan does not see the us helping the us has done absolutely nothing to. sort of bring about a more harmonious relationship between india and pakistan in fact every time they just sort of you know they they're like this is none of our business we don't have to do this but they're very much involved in the region they're right in the middle between pakistan and the central asian countries trade relationships with the central asian countries can actually bring a lot of prosperity to pakistan and the u.s. lending its troops right smack in the middle there has ended up hurting pakistan's economic. prospects so given their their activity in the region given their deep involvement in the region given its impact on pakistan and is synchrony and it's politics america saying we don't have to interfere in the

park relations this is a bilateral matter they should carry to are between themselves does not in dare american position to that of the pakistani position the pakistani government the pakistani people the pakistani military looks at it in a very suspicious way you know they then of course like i said before the american military conduct in the region the american drone strikes the american lack of respect for pakistan's sovereignty to new is continuous criticism of the pakistani military intelligence the continuous. missions voiced about it but if you are so suspicious why do you call it to the frontline state why do you call it an alliance against terror i mean my skin not big on suspicions i don't have to be suspicious you know i don't have to say you're not with us or you have to say you. guys and it's actually united states of america which is constantly not it has not taken a clear position on this issue and it's causing

a lot of confusion inside pakistan also. it has come to a point here quite honestly if you ask me the relationship has broken down it's a question of time before both sides are going to have to take you later right. now so it's very nice to be on its feet or kind of also has been great great. just just . my colleagues as seen from islamabad. the pakistani government the pakistani people once friendly relations and also the stability and neighbors in india and afghanistan i would agree with that but i think there she is talking about the civilian government and now run by the president's out authority but unfortunately this indian government in pakistan is in no position to run its foreign policy and decide on major national issues but it is usually decided by the army and intelligence service policies that are the intelligence service are pursuing is not

in line with the civilian government policies for example the existence of osama bin ladin the number one terrorist around the world just one mile from. pakistan's main military academy which is the. us version of west point chose that to what extent they are just supporting terrorism in the region. so i believe that when we are saying that this villian government supports stability that means nothing when they have no say in major foreign policy well if i can go to you into something and i mean. really quickly you want to go. you know i just want to say even in the handling of people in large enough that if united states of america had just shown our body that our body it would have enabled the civilian government in pakistan to go after their organic ments in the i.s.i. if there are any it would have enabled it to take the nation on board and say you

know we're not going to question our own intelligence agencies but what is going on inside our country everybody would have said that we're not showing up body rushing into the sea dumping it there is giving birth to what the americans like to call the conspiracy theories you know some say we have to look at the core what is of this operation so what i'm saying is the american contacts in. south central asia right now is rather clumsy glad you got it i want to go to you in tucson i mean it's only a matter of time before the united states leaves afghanistan and we knew we could put out another ten years or so but the pakistanis and the taliban are various elements of a home and they're just waiting there waiting for that ok and they've shown a lot of a lot of staying power here so again you know i mean the americans have fewer and fewer cards there's a lot of bluster and gloating and maybe it's all about domestic politics and budgets and things like that but at the end of the day the americans will leave it will be the people on the ground good people or bad people or indifferent people

who will decide the outcome well i think we've already heard the beginnings of this process happening so there is more and more talk about accommodating the taliban in the long run again after this decade. of the war on terror in fact the end game does involve. you know a merging of the pakistani vision of afghanistan and the u.s. invasion of afghanistan in order to do that however that's where i think we're getting this cluster and this gloating and. the bad cop part of the u.s. strategy in order to do that for domestic purposes within the united states. that there is this strategy are ramping up. the incursions ramping up the drone strikes ramping up the gloating and again to the extent that.

undermines. the civilians of the rather weak civilian structures in pakistan it's a very dangerous game to what extent does this american strategy really sideline the military intelligence complex and what extent does it actually increase the confusion increased popular support increased animosity and the accidental the so-called accidental guerrilla syndrome on both sides of the border it's hard to tell at this point again you have two different options here will the obama administration leverage its considerable influence in pakistan. again on the egyptian model in which it seems to have come around leverage the egyptian military into a much more sustainable situation going forward or will it continue to look like

the israeli model in which the beast continues to be fed and which netanyahu is literally looking over obama's shoulder as he makes this reset speech for the middle east and in which the regional so-called u.s. proxy actually continues to drive the relationship so will it go ok i want you to hear me i want to hear you know you weigh in washington want to be the last we're going to twenty five seconds go ahead. just quickly i'd like to mention that i think that we have overstating the power and also ensuing so if the american policy is inside pakistan i think that most of the problem that we see inside pakistan is not as a result of the u.s. policies it's because of domestic policies so it's a very good opportunity to pakistan to do some soul searching thirty five thousand innocent pakistani people have been murdered by terrorist activities over the past

nineteen years so it is time far to be as they really want to. deal with time your time here many thanks my guest today in washington islam about and in tucson and thanks to our viewers for watching us here darkie see you next time and remember crosstalk means. they'll be. in the. pacific. download the official and see how we can show you on the phone on called touch from the arch exams to. watch on t.v. life on the go. video on demand cheese mine comes an r.s.s.

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