welcome back you're watching r.t. live from moscow these are the top stories the imam throws egypt a three billion dollar bailout bone but it's feared it will only line the pockets of the former president's prodigies who continue to run the country some observers suspect the west is trying to bribe the big shots in cairo retain an influence over egypt. america's unemployment rates risen back over nine percent leaving college graduates learning some harsh lessons about life despite investing thousands of dollars in their own education just one in five students will find more. plus an

international crew of three is preparing to blast off from castle stan in a few hours and the man behind the mission are in high spirits a russian and american and a japanese astronaut will spend half a year on the space station. as g twenty energy ministers are gathering in paris to discuss nuclear safety in the wake of japan's fukushima disaster up next the host of our interview show spotlight algor na asks world nuclear association had john bridge what the future holds for atomic energy. we'll. bring you the latest in science and technology from the realms of russia. we've dumped the future covered.

yellow welcome to spotlight the interview siobhan party time algernon then today my guest on the show is john rich. the g. twenty ministers are gathering there is to discuss the global threats new ferengi make and it. has been instigated by the disaster at the for the shilling nuclear power plants and. the tragedy makes several european countries think out entirely giving up nuclear energy that is the devil really so black chasms faint here's the secretary general of the world nuclear association mr john rich. the earthquake and tsunami that hit the japanese coast damaged nuclear power plant the disaster happened four months ago but the echo is only getting louder with time

germany says it will give up you've got energy in ten years switzerland among some other countries are full of it but the majority is not ready to say farewell to cheap energy generated by the nuclear power plants they say nuclear fears do not hold water and careful unproductive planning could bring more benefits than a policy of not. oh mr mitchell welcome to the show thank you very much for being with us it's a pleasure to have you alexander it's a pleasure to be here well first of all as. the forum that we're talking about what's that not so let me idea behind them this forum is it is it you say to parents as i would guess it should be this year the form that's being held in moscow now is an extension of previous events and it basically is an opportunity to showcase the expanding capabilities of the russian nuclear industry which are indeed very proud impressive. those of us who watch nuclear affairs around the

world. are deeply impressed by the commitment of the the russian government backed by the the opinion of this country to chart a whole new era of advanced nuclear power for russia and also to step out on the world stage and lead the world help lead the world in the expanding use of this technology all around the world and there are many countries with or without the events of fukushima who are content to apply i'm exploring this technology to produce clean energy in the twenty first century and expects any any practical outcome any any practical results were just declaration intentions or whatever the list is the purpose of this conference is to exchange views and to develop business contacts we're not here to work just wait policy this is this is essentially an opportunity for the people of the global nuclear industry to get to know each other

better and for companies to showcase their capabilities. well another question the atom expert to twenty eleven is where. competitors from the world new to the market they get together they discuss discuss issues that are of common interest so all of them does that mean that that fukushima and the situation. is a challenge to the future of the interests of the. as well. the nuclear industry is constantly challenged to demonstrate that it represents a safe and responsible means to meet the clean energy needs of society. now what happened in fukushima is a very sad event indeed because the nuclear industry had compiled a twenty five year record of almost impeccable performance in the thirty countries around the world that make nuclear power and it was truly

a sad day march eleventh of this year when the worst earthquake in japanese history combined with an incredibly large tsunami. to disable unfortunately and ironically to disable a non nuclear part of the fukushima plant the plant the nuclear power reactors there had shut down successfully in the face of the reactor it would be earthquake . but they needed as all nuclear reactors needed they needed some extra assistance some extra no power to assist them in cooling down to normal atmospheric ambient temperatures and this was lost due to poor planning that allowed the the backup diesel generators to be flooded by a tsunami that exceeded all expectations and so we have this irony that. the loss of a simple set of diesel generators such as night we found on a russian farm have been. caused to this highly publicized

event and event that hasn't yet been responsible for a radiation fatality but which has cast and the doubt the safety of the nuclear industry well you said e.u. said that the scale of the. tsunami it was beyond expectations well. listen it's. just he has to live for the physician really doesn't agree and one of the things to remember about the nuclear industry is that in every country where nuclear power operates there is a national governmental regulatory authority now all of those regulatory authorities have gone back to the drawing boards now and in every country around the world they are reexamining the question of are the reactors in our country prepared to. operate their post shutdown cooling systems even under big

stored unary in national natural disaster situations and the tsunami that hit japan is a rare event indeed but i think in every country around the world there are are there. we thinking about a natural disaster might cause a reactor we already believe but we've got the real world reaction fleet fairly well protected against earthquakes because of the reactors in almost every locale. that might have an earthquake i've already been situated and designed to withstand bad as were the good reactors in japan it was the loss of posted on cooling that brought the japanese reactors into their troubled area and that's being examined everywhere as we speak so it's not only a lesson for the nuclear industry and it's a lesson for nuclear regulators and big industry and regulators everywhere knockoff we're going through to ensure that there's more to happen again well i want to get back to this beyond expectations ago you said that people are back to the drawing

boards but there's been focus shima show there that our expectations can always be exceeded something may happen i'm expect that still happens whatever our knowledge is well i mean for example a lot like light. an asteroid hits a satellite a satellite goes down the g.p.s. is not working somebody happens because of that satellite failure at any or we go well well isn't the main lesson is that no power plant is one hundred percent safe and if so it should become more and more expensive every admittedly did as the requirements go higher her research was no i would disagree with that basic philosophy i think it is possible to imagine the events that could happen at a nuclear power plant. there is we have to just look back at the the the history of humankind for the last thousand years or are so as we can just comprehend it and imagine all of the different things that might happen earthquakes floods tsunamis

airplanes could hit reactors meteors could hit reactors we can imagine that the reactor. could either be the victims of the earth movement or of water or a high impact really that's the that defines the full range of possibilities and if we can protect the reactors against the earth movement against water and against impact then i think we can be confident that we're safe now. we are already very very far along on this path by japanese made a simple but very very unfortunate design error in not water proofing their diesel generators because they thought their water could never reach them so it's waterproof which is which if he were to see it and because of that they have suffered a horrible calamity that has brought the reputation of nuclear power everywhere

into question but i think as long as authorities around the world really examine the safety of the nuclear power plants in their sovereign domain they are coming largely to the conclusion that they are already fairly well protected against earth movement against water and against impact and where they have new questions as a rising from this fresh reexamination they are taking actions with regard to that but i don't think we can we can worry that we just haven't well unable to imagine all the things that could happen if we guard against those basic concepts then we've got safe reactors well if we continue making do we actually are safer and safer in the new regulations and that is to make them safer. that still will mean that there will they will be becoming who looks pensive this is that me nuclear energy will still continue to be as cheap as its supporters say it is well that's a good question but i think that the changes that will be made as

a consequence of the global rethink after fukushima are not going to be very expensive you have to remember that reactors are already. extremely expensive to build cheap to operate and expensive to build so this fresh rethink is not going to cause a fundamental redesign in nuclear power plants it's going to cause some some questions on the margin do we really have complete waterproofing for our diesel generators do we really have the best possible alternating current backup systems available these are these are relatively simple questions to answer they're very important as the japanese have demonstrated but they're not costly questions to answer even if you get killed in more defensive in depth as if it were you happy with the japanese are they telling us how they tell you all the truth but i think you don't have to take my word for it you can take the word of the international atomic energy agency an investigative team an inspection team that just came back from japan there's more

inspection to be done there's more analysis to be done but these people who are representative of a variety of countries nuclear experts have gone to japan and they have given a an extremely positive report on the performance of the japanese government and the performance of the japanese nuclear operator in responding to this very very difficult circumstance where four reactors were suddenly in great jeopardy that cooling systems were absent and emergency measures had to be prepared on the on the on the spot and spontaneously this was a an unprecedented situation and that and the japanese government for its honesty and the and the japanese operator for their proficiency have gotten from very very high marks now this does not absolve the japanese of having made the fundamental design mistake and they are ashamed of that they are embarrassed by it and they and they reasonably should be says john rich six the general of the world you criticise

the spotlight who will do that shortly we'll continue this interview in less than a minute. while kings go mad their people suffer. the body count some to good advantage of power that was given to them. secret some big dirty money. on our team. sure than a month. in one of the most extreme environments on the planet this is antarctica and people have to be aware that they're far away from civilization sean thomas

discovers what makes antarctica so special and instructive for many the wildlife in antarctica is the both. the. expedition to the bottom of the earth arctic. welcome back to the spotlight and al green of in just a reminder there my guest on the show today is john rich secretary general of the world nuclear association we're talking about nuclear safety you mentioned that for twenty five years nuclear power plants have been absolutely safe you know major problems well i actually thought she might happen but on the eve of the twenty fifth anniversary of chernobyl these two disasters can they be i know they were different but can they be that i mean in the in the trial in terms of the

consequences for your industry. the damage they made to business to continue to. i think. that will be less severe in its health consequences and i think it will be less severe and its consequences for the nuclear industry like. chernobyl reasonably raise the question about whether or not nuclear power plants were doomsday machines. this reactor seemed to go completely out of control under the supervision and management of its operators and know what we know about life that has occurred in the history of nuclear energy either before or after fukushima was out and and about. really different character the reactors had been properly shut down they simply needed to receive outside cooling assistance while they moved down to ambient temperature and they lost it because of the force of the tsunami. this

was a very very severe lapse in design but not in operational terms and i think that we are going to be able to go back through the nuclear nuclear regulatory authorities all over the world and make sure that this is not liable to happen again the meltdown of three reactors at fukushima will lead to opinions split over nuclear energy spotlights and energy needed for. the first nuclear power plant in the world was created by the scientists of the portrait of the institute here in moscow being the pioneer in the field russia has stayed faithful to nuclear energy even after the truly noble disaster and also after what happened at four she much the philosophical attitude is not shared everywhere in the world the reaction to the news of the fukushima accident was immediately newark people were out on the streets protesting against the use of nuclear energy then to nuclear feeling has grown so strong in germany it has

a very in shoot choose to yield to public opinion if you sit for hours of the day we will abandon nuclear power company italy step by step until the end of transatlantic two and his path is a big challenge for germany but above all it means huge chances for the future generations as a country we think that we can become pioneers on the way to create energy renewable banters. the decision has already created we should not true city angel money and you prices went up from the very start it became this germany's. will be a long and winding road internationally can a g g n c has a clue. the confidence in nuclear energy has been damaged but it is sure the situation can be reversed there is a need to rebuild the confidence of the public towards the government when governments have decided to use nuclear energy but also in between governments

those who use nuclear called plan in a g and their neighbors whether they use or they do not use nuclear energy. not countries are ready for a tickle measures ransomware. to gain momentum as a result of what happened at the fukushima plant isn't given up on nuclear power just like many other countries including britain sweden spain and belgium despite barely caused by the accident nuclear energy stoop incentives amount of blue green and keep all of that does not prevent germany's green party from maine in high getting ready for a complaint to make the whole of europe free. or this is do you believe that the whole of europe can ever become nuclear free world well we know that germany has has decided to to phase out nuclear issue by the year

twenty twenty two switzerland's there is some of this with the french despite the position of the government are very anti-nuclear as we just saw will this trend spread do you think this is serious or is just just the first reaction we did not see in this the french or. of france has the most advanced and constructive and if you policy of many nations in the world precisely because they have chosen to make you know percent overall atrocities with nuclear power they still that they say they export nuclear power trust me across borders and the consequences of germany's rather strange and you're responsible decision would probably be ironically some. french nuclear electricity going across the border to germany as well as russian natural gas being imported as well as more german coal being burned. or votes. it's

i think it's important to look at the the major countries of the world and if you do that i think you see that germany is an exception in that almost proves the rule let's take the world's two largest countries. india and china both of those countries are set up on the path of very very large scale nuclear building programs for the twenty first century and they are not wavering on their commitment to that objective russia is not wavering britain is not wavering the united states is not wavering brazil is still committed to nuclear energy so too is france so too in south africa a major major or even even japan has announced its renewed commitment to nuclear power along with a new interest in renewables but the fundamental support for nuclear power is there everywhere in the world except for this strange locale in the center of europe where the swiss are continuing to wonder whether they should continue with it or

the germans have mis educated themselves out of any rational approach to nuclear energy and where. prime minister berlusconi is efforts to bring italy back into the nuclear around and italy being the only country in the world that ever had nuclear power and abandon that have now been put on the shelf by italian reaction to fukushima but in except in that strange locale in the center of europe i think we have a continued commitment worldwide to nuclear power you called the german decision responsible do you think this is what makes you think so do you think that germans will not be able to make it live b.m.w.'s to pay for to pay for additional electricity and why i don't think they're going to be able to make an offer new of the energy to fulfill their. if you hate it it's not possible in the twenty first century for a major industrial economy to power itself with clean energy without a considerable reliance upon nuclear power and it can need belief but that is part

of all is based upon a fantasy and the germans already recognise that they're going to be burning more coal importing more gas importing some nuclear from france and there simply are operating on our own and on a blind faith that somehow this new decision will open the way to or a few future of renewables they have they have even after it strenuous efforts they get seven percent of their electricity from when they get one percent from solar can you possibly imagine that those numbers are going to go way way up and suddenly we're going to have it germany powered by wind mills you already have major opposition forces growing in germany two to seven percent of the electricity being generated by wind because it already is marring the work of the german countryside imagine trying to double or triple that you're going to you're going to get an environmentalist trying to protect the countryside against renewables and they're going the way that the these windows they're very expensive this is their world and

they're and what do you do with the with the with the batteries. you have to dispose of the batteries and these are also a problem just as the nuclear waste turned experts from the international energy agency predicts a quilt that following the fukushima disaster the share of nuclear plants in the production of electricity will be diminishing by twenty thirty five it will be only ten percent is it is fourteen percent predicted before fukushima and i quote do these figures coincide with your estimation no no i don't think that there will be a bump in the road blix described at the former head of the but precisely because we have a renewed commitment on all of the major new. of the world except germany and italy i think that you're going to see that the path unfolds much as it would have before fukushima a number of analysts say that the fukushima disaster not the end you can you clear

innocence what can the world through place nuclear energy with is this a replacement for nuclear energy today that we are progressing developing here we we have an urgent environmental and human need let's just look at the the the the the context in which we're talking you know when i was a young student in one nine hundred sixty there were three billion people in the world today there are nearly seven billion and we're moving rapidly toward nine billion by the middle of this century as we make that continued growth in population world economies like those of japan and india are catching up and we're going to see me saying a tripling in world energy consumption over the next forty or fifty years at the very time when our climate scientists are telling us that we must curtail carbon emissions by eighty percent triple energy consumption reduce carbon by eighty percent how do you do that there's only one major expandable clean energy

technology now available to countries and that's a nuclear power and this is precisely the reasoning that has is maintaining the commitment to nuclear power in all nations that are engaged in responsible rational debate about it germany is the exception and there were no questions really serious critics of climate change have changed her mind after fukushima and you know supporting you clear prior work well well this sounds as a paradox to me can you explain it. well it is a bit of an irony but i would say that that fukushima helps to underscore the essential safety of nuclear energy imagine that we've had now in the year trolly eleven a worst case of nuclear of that. nature of salted those reactors with the worst earthquake in japanese history and to solve those reactors one hour later with an enormous tsunami that flooded the the post shut down cooling systems and yet

despite all of this highly placed public publicized work and effort that's gone into bringing those reactors under control we still have every reason to expect that there will not be a single radiation fatality from fukushima at the very same time that we've had twenty four thousand japanese citizens killed by the natural disaster it's its own reasonable to talk about fukushima as a disaster when not a single thing talent he has resulted good for you thank you thank you very much for being with us and just a reminder that my guest on the show today was john reach sixty general of the world need to say something and that's it for down for zero tolerance if you want to have yourself god like grab someone in a bar and see if he takes that to mean it's time just to realize that i'll do not see the damage to our years that steve's wildlife interact. with until when they start seeing him take it. take.