no amateur receive you so you process some news on the president's plans for afghanistan according to a.p. they say that ten thousand troops will come home this year. this is big news to let's not forget this is now america's longest war it's one that americans have said in polls that they feel isn't worth fighting and quite frankly there is no end game there's no victory in this battle let's face it instead what we're seeing is waste we've seen death the death of thousands of u.s. and coalition forces the death of thousands of afghanis civilians and those in security roles and all the while there are only about one hundred al qaeda even left in the country it's time for talks with the taliban people it's time to realize that one hundred thousand troops on the ground is neither sustainable nor smart let's go back to the mainstream media see they're at least covering the fact that the president is going to make an announcement and for that i guess i have to applaud them but the problem is it's still not really what i would call analysis i think a few print articles that we saw on this were just a perfect example of how they just get it so so wrong major troop reduction that's

what they have to say on the l a times major afghan drawdown come on people when you have one hundred thousand troops in the country and you hear talks of five ten thousand out that's not a major troop reduction neither is removing thirty thousand troops by the fall of two thousand and twelve and do you want to know why because that will still mean the by the end of obama's term as president there will still be more u.s. troops in the country that when george w. bush left office it was that little thing called a thirty three thousand troops search don't we see a real reduction in the ten year long war that's when maybe you can start throwing the word around but again we come to the most obvious problem the mainstream media doesn't know how to cover wars if they do then they definitely forgot the point is they just don't do it because it's not fun it's not sexy it's not funny it's not the same as talking about pictures of a congressman's junk it's wrong it's dark it's brutal it's graphic it's destructive it's war. now we're going to show you

a report from one of our correspondents who's out on the ground in libya in just a moment but first i'm going to show you a few images of civilians that were killed in the latest nato misfire and i'm warning you that these are incredibly graphic they're hard to look at but it's something that you have to see to understand what goes on. in the. like i said that's not easy to see but that's what the obama administration's not hostilities looks like that's what happens in any military conflict be it a humanitarian intervention or a civil war there are consequences there are lives that are lost there are those that are caught in the crossfire there are flesh and blood victims but the mainstream media would rather focus on the partisan politics and the number of games you know this isn't just about what's whispered in the halls of congress and decided upon in the oval office this is about life and death and that's what the

mainstream media always manages to miss. so now to take a closer look at the real victims of this war in libya nato's latest botched air strike has left more civilians dead and that includes two toddlers so as the airline struggles to defend its credibility some libyans are growing increasingly united against nato artie's marie of a notion that has more from tripoli. another day has brought more death and destruction to leave. a large private compound west of the capital tripoli has been leveled reduced to rubble in an apparent as strike. rescuers have discovered the remains of fifteen people according to libyan officials. but it was. the house destroyed belonged to general who moody one of the people closest to

colonel gadhafi he was among those who took part in the military coup to bring the libyan leader to power forty years ago the general escaped injury but most of his family died in the attack if you would see. this man is talking about little al who will be one of the grandchildren of the general and one of three kids killed in the incident the day of the bombing the family had gathered with friends to celebrate his fourth birthday. libyan civilians from it is when attacked in the air late hours of this morning killing fifteen people including three were children are better there is still the mothers. the number is fifteen people nato has denied these claims just as it's never debated the death of more than eight hundred others believe in government says were

killed by their bombs the nine people killed in sunday's bombing of a residential building in tripoli remain the all the civilian casualties i can buy the alliance which blamed a mistake technical failure a former pentagon official says the only thing clear about the nato campaign is the mountain casualty toll and damage it's inflicting on the even people they try to achieve a certain level of humanitarian effort and initially but the protracted bombing is now increasingly hitting civilian targets and it's creating a very negative reaction i think it does raise the question of what is nato's role continued role going to be there as discontented actions and crazies are the voices become more and more than to the voices of the libyan people. was. and it seems that the more anger they feel about nato the more they support a leader. that believe that that's what this is because seventy was

rising prices that was a. challenge but this is a much it's. best to do that because we can start with the united states is that this was the best that. we will you want to deliver our message. this is. what's certain is that. dying. off to tripoli. now is america's war if it's abroad be they in libya or afghanistan or other places as they become less certain have to wonder how it's affecting the political views of the population c.n.n.

has been conducting a poll on libertarian views since one nine hundred ninety three asking two questions of their respondents if they think the government's trying to do too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses or if they think it should do more and whether the government should promote traditional values in society or not favor any particular set and this year those numbers have shot up sixty three percent of respondents said that the government was doing too much fifty percent said the government shouldn't favor any particular values so as we see increasing frustration with washington increasing frustration with wars abroad as well as wars waged here at home is america really becoming more libertarian or is putting a name on it just because it's not fully democrat or republican the wrong way to go about looking at the scenario here to discuss this with me is david kirby associate policy analyst at the cato institute david thanks so much for being here tonight thanks for having me starters what do you say some people are saying that this is the year of the libertarian you've got two of them really now as presidential candidates yeah that's right i mean nation building has been

a long complain of libertarians within the republican party and it seems just transitioning from your previous segment that this idea that nation building is expensive and doesn't work is yours but rick perry and like ron paul have been making an argument like this for many years starting to catch on in the political polls and one other example of how libertarianism might be right at the moment but i think you know one of the things about it too is it's not like i mean democrats used to be your guess you could say at one point were the anti war party but i think that part of the problem is we're not really seeing that from either party anymore and i actually have a clip that i want to play you from barbara boxer that this is something maybe you wouldn't expect her to say let's take a look. we're going to support of the administration's response right now for a position where should we go for. here well i think that what you're doing. and i think we have to be sure that we stay close to the. rebels because you want to make sure they understand what you see. i mean from everything that

was released just highlight of the ground and i think that many analysts will tell you it's not working in libya it's not going anywhere but tell me if you think that this is true are people just sick of both parties telling the line whenever they have to because if it was a republican president who is waging a war in libya then obviously the democrats will be up in arms about it and the way we see many republicans up in arms about the moment but are they just sick of everybody going along with what the president what the party has to say certainly seems to be i mean libertarians have long been a sort of political faction that's neither really republican or democrat they tend to be independent maybe call them moderate fiscally conservative socially liberal there are sort of always looking for a political home and so you see a pattern of when republicans don't do the right thing they vote them out of office when democrats don't do the right thing they that vote them out of office so they've been looking for leaders who can represent them. the tea party for instance has been

a libertarian force for good i would say at least half the people in the tea party are libertarians and their complaints against the same pattern of business as usual as you were describing in washington has started to catch on but i'm going to tea party i think you could say is pretty socially conservative at least on a lot of a lot of issues and that's something that terry anzur not well so the interesting thing when you actually look at the data is the tea party is split between people who are libertarian and who let the social issues i care about spending that's what i want from politicians to lower spending lower deficits and the bailouts and then you also have a half that's more socially conservative so there's definitely both parts within the tea party but it seems like this kind of libertarian half of the tea party is sort of driving some of the. within the debate both within the republican party and broader and that's what you're starting to see in some of these polls where the libertarian sentiment seems to be catching on well that's what i'm wondering though is it necessarily do we have to call it libertarian do we have to put a label on it just because people's ideas are not so black and white as as i think

the media always tries to portray them as being oh it's a good point i mean in the polls they almost never use the word libertarian so there's not an option to chip check the box and i'm a libertarian so instead people are typically dining room service as independent or moderate as they said sometimes conservative the capital l. libertarian party is something that a lot of even libertarian leaning people don't want to affiliate with so there's a lot of confusion about the word libertarian people don't know exactly what it means a couple guests that have been on your show recently nick gillespie and matt welch of reason magazine are trying to define libertarian not as a as a noun but as sort of an adjective a prepare little instinct it's sort of an attitude that you bring to politics that i'm just skeptical of government in general and i'd rather just have my individual choices about the way i do business now if you define it that way broadly you can see a much larger group of americans willing to identify themselves that way well since you brought up actually there's

a point that he made when also writing about this this poll today and he said that basically americans have always been more radical than the people of they actually elected to office we just never really see that manifest into any kind of action do you agree with that that's a very good point and almost seems like the radicalism even catches up two or three election cycles late so for instance libertarians have been complaining since the bush years about all this spending and low and behold all the republican politicians are finally catching on and saying oh i think i want to end spending to well congratulations about eight years too late but they're there so it seems like the electorate tends to be more radical and pushes politicians you're always playing catch up to culture and sort of the social atmosphere so how do you really see this playing out now do you see the libertarian movement big. coming a libertarian party becoming a third party we had at the at the mean time even people like ron paul like gary johnson they still to run on the republican ticket it's hard to say i mean there's been a point in us political history where third parties have been possible they're more entrenched the two political parties are more entrenched today than they have been

previously to campaign finance restrictions in other words so i'm not sure i see that in the next few years but it's always possible right now it seems like libertarians are having the most traction through the tea party affecting the debate and the conversation so they've really been able to change the tone of the conversation in washington about spending that's the first issue that's kind of on the minds of voters around the country and i really think that's a tribute to libertarians who've been making this argument for so many years and you're starting to see an uptick among other groups of people catching on as well but see that's where i get a little bit skeptical because i think that when it comes to social issues when it comes to things like gay marriage maybe even you could say legalization and start spreading in a number of states that's where out of tubes are really changing people are becoming a little more relaxed in america i wondering if we get out of this economic crisis is at any point soon whether you know people will not go so far in the libertarian sense because they say if they want to cut spending but any time you do a poll asked about social security or medicare nobody wants to see it but i guess

time will only tell david thank you so much for being here tonight thanks which i mean. that's sort of come police claim that they've arrested another major hacker in the u.k. but is the arrest just a p.r. move by police after being embarrassed time time again by hackers in recent months and speculation on wall street is that the reason for major spikes in oil food and metal prices looking to the issue in just a moment. for the. we've got to. the biggest issues did the human voice cease to face with the news makers. the issues. similar to the huge decision. mark from spring to be a great change in the police. becoming the city. all

governments across the world are on heightened alert about hackers it seems as if a few countries in europe of amped up their efforts to take down those who battle governments and corporations online just two weeks ago spanish police announced they had apprehended three people who they said were members of anonymous anyone has yet to prove it the spanish beauty is alleging that these individuals are responsible for the massive data breach on sony's playstation network as well as hacking into governments banks and other businesses they claimed that tips in an online chat room led them to the three hackers turkey also arrested several hackers who they claim a members of anonymous however all twenty three of them have since been released after they failed to find any convincing evidence linking them to any cyber attacks now meanwhile in the u.k. the f.b.i. is responsible for capturing nineteen year old brian cleary who they say is a member of the hacking group low security. his mother has reportedly sued a dozen police officers raided the family home ten thirty last night in

a joint operation by the f.b.i. and school. however shortly after cleary was detained the hacking community gave a very clear response the big teenager was not heavily involved anon sect we did the good news everybody right has little to do with it besides running i.r.c. all six members of law sick or find safe before anyone gets confused out there i.r.c. stands for internet relay chat it's one of the original designs for online chat rooms and even though it was created in one nine hundred eighty eight it's still used today over i.r.c. is one of the main methods of the hacking world he uses to keep in touch because of the ability for users to remain anonymous confirmed clear his role saying that ryan cleary is not part of all sickly house one of our many legitimate chat rooms on his i.r.c. server but that's it now to top it all off scotland yard released a press statement on this teenager's arrest and it they set the teenager was arrested on suspicion of the computer misuse act and fraud act offenses and was taken to a central london police station where he currently remains in custody for questioning

and the statement continues on saying at this point there is a no confirmation that the person arrested is a member of law however as the statement said he was arrested during a sting operation after attacks on intelligence agencies and international businesses now i'd just like to take a moment here point out what i think anyone who is on top of the activist movement might already know that it's damn near impossible to capture any one leader of the hacktivist movement not only do groups like anonymous and security purposefully work in a loose community without a strict hierarchy they're also really good at not getting caught remember that whole communicating using i.r.c. thing but let's draw a comparison here i know the hackers in the taliban are two completely different issues when it comes to u.s. security but i think it's safe to say if the u.s. or any other military or police organization is clearly incapable of taking them down terrorists and hackers are different things not equating them. but it's the way of the author already is treat them sometimes the same if the lying about it that gets to me we already pointed out how the f.b.i.

has clearly flubbed their investigation again into a non sect let's go back to a few weeks ago it was discovered that gen petraeus if a lot of stats when it came to the us capturing members of the taliban on june thirteenth i interviewed investigative reporter gareth porter on this show about those mismatching numbers on taliban detainees the notion that somebody is free because of something you know in consequential just doesn't doesn't make any sense then for the criteria for holding them are so broad that it's very easy to keep these people in detention for a long time so the fact that twenty percent of those detainees who were cycled through the main detention center were actually released after a review of their files means that they just didn't have anything. so just like the u.s. military and general petraeus failed to detain any militants justly we find the f.b.i. and european intelligence groups are able to justly detain those they've just

captured especially ryan cleary those are the police's way of easing the worries of governments all over the world making a big show of arrest of people and trumping up their importance and then just quietly releasing them when the media spotlight has faded if so i take pleasure in calling them out for it if there's a force you can't fight don't pretend to be winning just for appearances. now more fingers are being pointed at goldman sachs and this time it comes from another big business name the fifth largest u.s. bank is now being accused of manipulating the metals market by coca-cola he says the prices have become artificially high and the london metal exchange is investigating that issue but you could say that it looks like we might be seeing a strong pattern emerging here when it comes to those accusations of market manipulation goldman sachs definitely isn't the only player but their trail makes it a little easier to follow according the wall street journal in may goldman raise its forecast for metal commodities. that prices went up and may go but also predicted that oil prices would rise and prices went up and so i would argue that the goldman

sachs commodity index has played a long lasting role speculators trading on food and energy and cost in food prices to rise globally so is there any way to stop it all or discuss this with me as tyson slocum research director for public citizens energy program thank you so much for being on this you have my pleasure now like i said ever going to break these down one by one in just a minute but what do you say are we seeing at least some kind of a pattern emerging here where goldman sachs likes to make a prediction a lot of prices will often go up but a lot of people say well because that's what you're doing is you're fueling the speculation or you know question we've seen this for years now where analysts with goldman sachs will release public research saying they expect to see prices go up and then we see prices trail exactly what they were predicting when you've got an entity like goldman sachs that is such a significant player in these commodity markets and there are a significant player in three different ways one they have their own proprietary trading desk they're also managing bets on behalf of end users like airlines and

other folks like that and then they're also managing money through index funds or they're taking pension money in other managed fund and other managed funds and that was also in huge market share and there are no clear rules that disallow these banks like goldman sachs to not communicate with all three of those different divisions and so you see a lot of opportunities for a bank like goldman sachs to play games in this market and i think that we're seeing prices in metals in food in energy like oil go beyond the supply demand fundamentals and in fact federal regulators in the states have concluded that more than eighty percent of the volume trade is being conducted by speculators led by goldman sachs let's talk about coca-cola as complain specifically here when they talk about these metals they said goldman sachs j.p. morgan also you can say is involved in this they just buy up warehouses and then they come. plan is that it they just hold on to the material they don't release it you may get it all in very quickly but it takes ten months to get it out tell us

more about it yeah i mean that practice is actually for the most part very legal and so the question is is what regulations are needed to prohibit or limit the ability of a pure speculator like a bank from hoarding physical supplies especially when the hoarding of those supplies is affecting the end users like a coca-cola or other manufacturer supplier of retail products that in turn those prices are going to be raised for end consumers and that's the last thing we want to see in this economy so what we've got to do is put together some very simple rules that limit the role of speculators to do this one would be limiting a pure speculator like a goldman from engaging in physical hoarding of the supplies another issue would be in acting firm position limits that would limit the amount of trades that a pure speculator can do in this market that will limit their ability to control a huge chunk of the market and therefore reduce their leverage and third would be increasing margin requirements so you have to put up more money in order to

speculate that's going to increase the cost of speculation and that's going to reduce the levels of speculation look speculation is always been in markets and it serves a necessary role the problem that we have a public citizen is when speculators are driving the market volume they are determining the prices rather than the supply demand fundamental what happens that when they're not physically hoarding i think we know that they're not physically hoarding food supplies and yet you could say the global food prices are rising thanks to a lot of this market manipulation what do you do there a lot of that is just through the paper trades that are going on i mean in oil markets for example ninety nine percent of all of the trading activity never results in the physical delivery of a barrel of crude oil and so the way that you can get at that paper trading rather than the physical hoarding is again the reacting the position limits that reduces the market share because right now. company like goldman sometimes controls forty sixty seventy percent of the market that's not very competitive so if you limit

their ability to control the size of the market that's going to limit their ability to unilaterally set prices and again in acting stricter margin requirements that would require them to put up more capital that's going to reduce the level of speculation as well really goldman isn't the only one at that guilty in this situation like i said even j.p. morgan you could say that they buy up these warehouses when it comes to the metals prices but who else are some of the big players and we've also talked about the koch brothers on this show and the large role that they play an oil speculation but it's almost every single wall street bank involved oh yeah absolutely i mean i mean barclays you've got morgan stanley citi group spun off its energy trading business to occidental petroleum so you've got a number of financial players and some. oil companies and then you've got agricultural concerns like cargill that are also big players but really the banks dominate the market and going after the tactics that goldman sachs uses is going

to be important if we're going to rein in the speculators and bring prices back down to the supply demand fundamentals is that what you think of the london metals exchange is doing right now i mean they say that they're investigating the situation but i feel like it's just frustrating for average people right because they only investigate when another huge corporation like coca-cola happens to complain are we at least heard president obama mentioned he was going to start a task force to look into possible illegal oil speculation but like i said you never see the same when it comes down to affecting real people around the world when it comes to food prices and the fact that people are actually starving out there right absolutely it's definitely not heartening when a regulator relies on a third party to bring issues to its attention the role of the regulator is to police these markets now we have to make sure that more of the trading activity occurs in markets that are directly real regulated by these exchanges we've had a number of the regulatory. moves over the last decade that have moved a huge volume of trading away from the exchanges regulated by central governments

onto exchanges where only the banks control the access to the information so we've got to make sure that all of the trades that end up affecting prices occur on exchanges that are fully regulated by the government that would also help a great deal well it sounds nice we'll see if that actually happens in the meantime some people say that you know we're just seeing new bubbles emerge as well tyson i want to thank you so much for joining us tonight my pleasure. now coming up next we have a show and tell and then he's back keith olbermann return to t.v. last night with a new show on current t.v. but it's changing channels really mean that he's gone alternative. just.

i'm broadcasting live from our studios in central moscow and we're certainly glad to be with russian investigators are to shortly begin. killing forty four people survived the disaster with serious injuries and with the tragedy being blamed on bad weather and human error. libyan officials say at least fifteen is civilians and celebrating a child's birthday to be killed by nato strike just twenty four hours earlier. mistake an attack in which the. greek government. vote in a deeply divided parliament with

a margin of just four. currently demonstrating in angry protests outside the building his decision opens the new austerity cuts needed for another new bailout loan but is likely to face continued public opposition. to the. war in the. but in june one hundred forty one these walls were the first barriers will announce new troops on the way to moscow. sunders umbrellas were done one by one under siege the sun cooler water. cooler. in the last shelter an unnamed soldier left

a few simple words farewell motherland i'm dying but i'm not sure rendering. would be soon which will brighten the moola balance song from silence to the pressure these. moves for instance on t.v. dot com. are it's time for show and tell on tonight's program the last time we discussed the legal justification of the white house.