plum jobs are going to washington d.c. and here's what's coming up tonight on the big picture just minutes ago president obama delivered his speech on u.s. troop withdrawal in afghanistan will america be satisfied with only a partial withdrawal and still having to get stuck with the expensive tab meanwhile it's the people versus the state of michigan residents fed up with governor rick snyder's decision to have emergency for the financial managers hold all overlooked local municipalities are fighting back with an offer seems rule in the world we're

in spain and greece is on the brink of defaulting on their ious that happens what's to become of the euro and most importantly the entire european economy. you need to know this president obama just finished laying out the start of his afghanistan withdrawal plan to the american people ten thousand troops or one tenth of our military force over there will be sent home by the end of this year and by the end of next year a total of thirty three thousand and twenty thousand or one third of our force on the ground in afghanistan will come home president stressed that this is just an initial drought drawdown and that after twenty twelve more troops will be leaving president touted success of the afghanistan troop surge in two thousand and nine as a reason why we can afford to bring troops home starting this year. it is this

chart shows even if thirty three thousand troops leave afghanistan by the end of next year it will still be more boots on the ground over there than before president obama took office so is this really the bold step the american people are looking for that will put an end to a war that is growing more and more unpopular and looking more and more like another vietnam hero offer his take is robert greenwald filmmaker and political activist as well as the founder and president of brave new films robert welcome back thank you tom good to be with you great to have you with us it does the president's plan in your mind go far enough. you know it doesn't go far enough either as a tactic or as a strategy tom in terms of a tactic this certainly the possibility of more troops pulling them out quicker and saving a million dollars or true but you bring on cause we know it costs one million dollars for one troop for one year and in terms of a strategy a fundamental strategy we're in this awful situation where nobody really nobody

seems to believe that was safer because of this war so every day that the workers are americans are killed after the secure begins our lives are so the ins of dollars are spent and we're not safer we're not better off so if the far as logic that it just keeps going on and on and on it seems to me robert that the turning point in this war was one the president killed osama bin laden and that after that i mean even before that probably both of us would agree that there was no justification to bomb afghanistan particularly after mullah omar offered to give. to arrest and send up bin laden for trial way back in the day you know but whatever fig leaf of irrational was left is largely gone and we're propping up arguably one of the most corrupt regimes in the world what possible well let me

rephrase that it seems that he's balancing the president as this is balancing on the one hand the screaming demands of the hawks there with the military industrial machine and all the republicans who are going to claim that he lost the war if he moves out really fast and that will you know be very i think he thinks politically destructive and on the other in the fact that this war is not helping us it's it's been some driving us into the into the poor house isn't there some i mean how does how does he get how does he do that dance out of the balances to. well we know it's it's a tough job and certainly not one that i would want but i think in all seriousness that we need to first of all recognize that you and your listeners and your viewers have really made a profound difference over the two years that you and we have been talking about this from a quite where you know whatever it was ninety percent of the country would have a believed in this war and supported it we're now you know sixty seventy eighty

percent are against it so that's a positive but we really should take a moment in embrace that positive that we will help turn public help educate them and let them know that through rethink afghanistan and your work this should not continue having said that we still have a fundamental problem which again you're talking about which is we're spending two billion dollars to every week on the war in afghanistan. without. even that our people cannot come up with a logical reason why we're there and does anyone get up in the morning and say you know we're spending took billion dollars this week boy i feel so much more safer and so much more secure right or instead i think people are saying we're spending two billion dollars this weekend why is my school crumbling down the street there why are desires where why would we do we have potholes in the roads if we do suspect that if the president wins reelection in two thousand and twelve that we're

going to see a rapid much more rapid drawdown when the political pressures on. you know i don't know tom because you could make a good case that the political republicans are turning against this war right now it's a war that has nobody like him except lieberman and mccain and they're practically a joke you know they've never seen a war a military that they didn't know war of so there's really i would argue it is really a great opportunity for him now in terms of political capital to be braver to be courageous to you know to take a stronger position if he's reelected i don't know what goes through his mind but certainly he's a. person who's got incredible intellect and you would hope and believe that the filter around him is not preventing him from hearing how badly the war is going from understanding is fundamentally a simple war that we did to be. possible chance that that government in

afghanistan can do anything other than be hold us up for more money for and rethink afghanistan is i think your work is a very important part of why we're to at least the point where the president is drawing down troops so it's better than cranking him up is was you know during the bush administration and the early obama administration robert greenwald brilliant work you've been doing thanks so much for being with us tonight my pleasure president obama needs to take the same advice senator george aiken he of lyndon johnson back in nineteen sixty six and heard the vietnam war declare victory and then get the hell out of there. it's time for our daily poll your chance to tell us what you think here's today's question top scientists are warning that af if the percent of ocean life could die are we on the verge of seen

a mass extinction in earth's oceans your choices are yes because of pollution and climate change the oceans are losing oxygen and becoming more acidic or know if the ocean dies so what all. of us know what you think the pole will be open until tomorrow morning. raise the alert there is a reason why the amish stay away from technology or should stay away from technology and knowledge man was arrested last week after sending hundreds of explicit sex to an under age girl the man willard yoder of indiana since six hundred sexual texts and anthony weiner like photos of himself to the girl and promise through that they would have a tryst inside his horse and buggy well inside the buggy anyway the girl's parents caught wind of what was going on arranged a meeting with yoder at a nearby restaurant in order for the police to arrest him and sure enough you are showed up driving his horse and buggy to the rendezvous only to find the police

waiting for him when asked why he was sexting a twelve year old daughter answered that he thought she was thirteen unfortunately it's pretty clear that sexting is more than just a passing fad and has been picked up by the community. well you know what residents of michigan be able to maintain a democracy or will it fall totally under the dictatorship of governor rick snyder and his rights. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime.

i think it is even funny well. whenever the government says they're for the keep you safe get ready because their freedom. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else here sees some other part of it and realized everything you saw you don't i'm sorry welcome to the big picture.

and this is why three weeks of rioting in the streets greek prime minister george pop and radio is keeping his job as he narrowly survived a no confidence vote in the greek parliament yesterday the world watched the vote closely as greece is on the edge of defaulting on its debts and must pass austerity measures like spending cuts and state privatization to receive a bailout from the european union and the international monetary fund if greece defaults it could trigger

a financial crisis across all of europe and the greek people have expressed outrage at the sturdy agenda of the targets mostly working class families but less the banks toure's who caused the financial mess off without altogether an austerity measure or agenda i might add that is similar to conservative policies that were put in place in the u.k. earlier this year and are already shrinking and damaging the british economy people of greece are not having it shut down their country was strikes and violent unrest in the streets so what's next for groups and for the rest of europe for the. and are austerity measures really the best way to deal with fiscal crises here offer some answers a subpoena to one director of globalization and international employment at the center for american progress sabina welcome thank you to have you with us here how did this greek problem start but it was greece one of the one here in the situation where i think the important thing to remember here is that this is a crisis of revenue collection the problem was that the government was not

collecting and after tax revenue and the problem was not on the spending side although now we do see the government taking austerity measures it's important to remember that it's a revenue collection problem i've i've read various accounts in various places you know over usually the financial times that that there was an enormous problem with the tax collection mechanism that it was corrupt or that it was incompetent or all of the above also tell you b. i believe it was wrote at some length about how greece was one of many countries that got basically ripped off badly by our banks toure's by goldman sachs and other companies that you know blew up their economy by selling them exploding investments are those is that is that the core of the problem here either of these or both yes i think the that you really nailed the core of the problem but it's exactly the problem and now we're seeing it is unsustainable levels of debt and

a very very high deficit greece really needs to figure out how it's going to start to balance its budget and its economy it's seeing you know given that it seems that there are a couple of possibilities beyond just cutting everything i mean cutting the economy is going to kill your enemy one would be dropping the euro going back to the drachma it was the drucker it was. because then they would have a currency that they could inflated deflate they could change the value of relative to other currencies and basically get their own economic. it was an order. and others have been talking about this for a long time is that and then the other thing of course is cleaning up the cash question recognised yes are either of these things being seriously considered or is greece looking at alternatives well i think the issue is that greece is in a very very dire economic situation right now and they certainly need to consider you know tax reform and better tax collection mechanisms but the austerity measures

are also a requirement in order for them to get the bailout that they need from the other european countries and from the international monetary fund and so at this point at this urgent juncture right now greece really has to consider both the revenue and the spending cuts in order to get its economy back on track why does the i.m.f. always go with this chicago school economic model you know the chicago school of economics from the one nine hundred forty s. thirty's forty's the milton friedman model when when milton friedman himself tried to chile it produced a disaster and virtually every other country around the world with the chicago boys as they call themselves when they show up countries implode why why the montreux why is that model still being believed and used why imposed on others i think the important thing to start with here is that the u.k. and the u.s.

are not greece and greece is not the u.k. or the u.s. the united kingdom and the united states are both big dynamic economies austerity measures are not the answer for these economies greece however is in a very different situation they have really believing levels of debt interest payments on those that are killing them right now and it's really important that they you know to everything in their power both on the spending and on the revenue tax collection side in order to get their economy back on track and the international monetary. fund and the european countries you know france germany they need to get behind supporting greece because if greece goes down and defaults on its loans we're going to see a domino effect that is going to affect the rest of europe ireland portugal could be next and that's a very frightening prospect of a time when the global economy is really. in a very fragile state of recovery it is this could be a tipping point for a global depression i i'm afraid so i think this is

a very dire situation. i'm wondering how much of this you know greece ever since participation in the e.u. and the world trade organization since basically mid ninety's greece manufacturing their manufacturing sector has dropped significantly just as ours rose and we're importing things largely from china but from all over the world and i'm wondering if maybe they will be looking at protectionist measures for example to restore manufacturing to try to rebuild their economy there doesn't seem to be anything left there right i think that we have to be very careful when we think about when we talk about protectionist measures. i think that trade can actually be a very positive mechanism the problem in greece right now is this you mentioned earlier is that they can't tell you their currency because they're part of the euro and i think right now prime minister pop and drew is really struggling to just get the economy back on track before they can think about long term strategies and

protectionism is not a long term strategy or it is it's not exactly it's not a good long sabina thank you for being with us thank you very much if you're not willing to crash your own economy then the i.m.f. the toughest of the banks economic hitman will step up and do it for you after all . goldman sachs' always happy to ruin your own i mean fear itself billions done before the ridicule. michigan governor rick snyder's financial managers will face their first legal test as the sugar law center for economic and social justice filed suit today arguing his financial managers law violates that state's constitution earlier this year republican governor snyder passed a bill that allows him to take over any city in michigan struggling financially fire all the local like local elected officials and put in place

a crony of his own personal choosing what's called a financial manager handle the city's finances that financial manager has the power to do pretty much anything from void in union contracts to cutting local government services and even selling off huge chunks of the city public parks and power plants to his buddies in private corporations at a fire sale price it is the sugar law center says about it in a press release about the law it is a power grab by lancing politicians ideologically committed to reward in the private sector at the expense of the common good it is an attack on the very core of democracy and now the sugar law center is fighting back for more on their efforts to fire governor snyder's financial manager and injures i'm joined by john phyla legal director of the sugar law center for economic and social justice and the lead attorney suit filed against michigan john welcome. thank you thank you for having great great to have you with us first tell us a little bit about your organization why you're filing the suit well the sooner law

center is you were nonprofit was or not that's organized around the idea is that people's economic and social rights are basically human rights their civil rights and we don't respect him in this country under the law we we're going to use our nation to to make that recognized within the law but also to bring broader social change. with respect to the law so we're doing is putting it right in front of the court they're going to have to make a decision of whether or not people have the right to a democratic form of government in the state or is there a new form of government that's allowed in this country we are by a single politician in our state capitals can establish a murder where they work on their calling emergency manager who has absolute authority and control over the local government over the city or village without any accountability to local reporters. in any way this seems like

this is disaster capitalism on steroids. you know use an opportunity to to privatized things to sell things off to do away with the mocker see is there what is the legal basis of your lawsuit is there other than the you know it seems that what you just described is a is a general perspective is there a specific law that they are violating or are you calling on the court to say that this is a violation of the spirit of the constitution or the spirit of a small democracy right that's a good question because it's so untested in our country right we all assume we have a right to a local democratic form of government so where is it actually written. we have a brilliant. former we should supreme court justice and sort of the oliver wendell holmes mistake in beauty hundreds who's written on it beautifully it's not thomas cool who said. there's an absolute right to instigate here right of the people to have a democratic form of local government and to

a lack of local officials he struggled for we are is that found in the could cast addition but he found it since that time we've had approximately three revisions to our state constitution which have only strengthened citizens' rights with respect to the local government and granted further home rule and put the power in really in the people of the state to have their own forms of local government superior to that of the state legislature. so we think there's a sound basis based on his reasoning and more he's found it but also a lot of additional provisions that are coming to the state constitutions sense beyond that we also have a state constitutional provision that says you can't in that unfunded mandates over local municipality it's best explicit in the constitution and in this situation where we have our our poorest communities. who are being

required to pay for her to be managers all the staff all the accountants all the financial review teams all the costs of their operations right now benton harbor is there already of the money managers eleven thousand dollars per month before we even get to the consultants before we even get to the costs and there is no dish no revenue streams being provided to these localities and he you know this is a really it's an assault on our constitutional rights and it is the and it's an idea that really should be repugnant to everybody is that the stand your majesty you're going to be allowed in our state is condition and your financial fortunes and not we seem to see a lot of concern within the constitution that would never make that case also a political version of debtors prison and had dennis knowles commissioner goodman on our city commissioners on on the program a number of times and he makes a compelling case. for you know hey i was elected democratically and and they threw me out how though do you respond to the governor snyder and those around

him who say well you know the city wasn't wasn't being managed well it was falling apart and so we had to do something this is what we're doing. now there's two two points i'd like to make in africa hard first the economic and crisis in michigan is throughout the state and is really this is a national economic crisis that was caused by the failure to regulate the financial industry it was caused by national policies that at the industrial midwest doubly hard know what is really this isn't a case of one look at only having bad finances this is a case of working a huge factory closes the who's that's basically who's when they lose jobs. but this last few is not what we're what we are most at issue and he's not the idea that the state doesn't have not to do something to stabilize local communities finances but rather this lawsuit goes well beyond disputes powers to be emergency

managers to decide where scrip would be how close we would be to a church to decide who on the building commission will be removed or replaced and determine which buildings of historical significance will be safe here demolished those are political decisions and those are policy decisions they are not financial decisions in any sense and in natchez it's just going way too far. if a kid is speaking together and actually craft a good legislation to dress the financial emergency and it would be a very difference of her ok john thank you so much for what you're doing and for being our program tonight paid your big you very much for having us and keeping this issue out there because i think it is an important one not for the whole country i agree republicans like rick snyder scott walker and john cases didn't campaign on a pledge to destroy democracy that's exactly what they're doing in the nation is suffering reza pair a case of voters or morse let's hope efforts like those undertaken by sharia law

center to check on this radical right wing agenda just long enough for us to vote the bums out of office next year. after the break my conservative guest analyst daniel helper and heather servo will take me out. in our little over a liberal weekly debate. let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime. i think. even one well. we haven't got that says to feel safe get ready because of their freedom.

you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so bleak you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything you saw you don't i'm sorry welcome to the big picture. for. fun.

but about the big picture i'm tom hartman coming up in this half hour a man desperate to receive medical treatment robs a bank for just a measly buck so you can see a doctor in jail so we finally discover the republican health care plan and the nation's corporations are taking out a new form they're actually merging into a legion of decepticons aimed at destroying the reforms.

it's was this time for the lone liberal when i debate to exploit conservative commentators on some of the big issues of the week on our panel tonight daniel helper on line editor the weekly standard and heather servo conservative strategist managing owner of the for forty public group public relations. thanks to start. this week the nation heard the story of james verona and so desperate for medical care he walked into a bank stole one dollar and sept only couch and waited for the cops to arrest him and throw him in jail just so he could finally receive some healthcare there's over own justifies the city. with my logic. if you really should then added fretfully because i need medical care then i guess i am medically of course to get medical care republicans nationwide ran into.