three. three. three. three. three vote. for your drug free card. but in the law to show well get the real headlines with none of them are sick or can live out of washington d.c. now so i will ask what the i.c.c. is a showing of an arrest warrant on one market off it will mean for the war in libya because dean baker deficit talks in washington are misguided and if the american worker has already lost and will look into what could be next perhaps for this after lol security announce this saturday. or to have all of that and more faded i prefer as let's take

a look at what the mainstream media has missed. well today we all learned what we already knew was going to happen because she already announced to the g.o.p. debate in new hampshire a few weeks ago that michele bachmann would be running for president that is by already knowing this for a number of weeks apparently the mainstream media thought it was breaking surprising jaw dropping news my name is michele bachmann and i stand here in the midst of many friends and many family members to announce formally my candidacy for president of the united states it was right here that she made that announcement and repeatedly tried to make that connection to iowa voters saying that everything she ever needed to learn in life she learned here proclaiming herself a daughter of waterloo and that's a big question mark and you talk to any political analyst looking at this field and we always put the caviare out there that this is very. very early and even though

these polls are showing one thing that can completely change by the time we get to the iowa caucuses. yeah you know what i wish they would have been talking about in regards to should michele bachmann running for president what she would do with the war in afghanistan i don't know ask why it is that the economy concerns are so much yet when it comes to our wars abroad with the exception of libya because let's face it that's an easy in a very particular attack coming from conservatives these days while they hypocritically still support all of our other wars by it is that the road as we like it is when it comes to defense spending does she really not have a whole lot of oh yeah that's because the mainstream media doesn't have a whole lot to say when it comes to defense spending either but i forget let me give you just a few numbers that might put things into perspective for you n.p.r. the u.s. spends twenty point two billion dollars a year on air conditioning alone in the wars in iraq and afghanistan if you hear that air conditioning that doesn't even count weapons troops infrastructure rebuilding projects the training of afghan security forces about

a million other things you can put on that list n.p.r. even put together a nice list of everything that costs that that program costs more that and that includes are finishing it at rock in afghanistan is more than nasa's budget it's more than b.p. has paid so far for damage during the gulf oil spill it's more than what the g eight has pledged to help foster new democracies and egypt and tunisia those should make you pause for just a moment but if they don't let me give you the examples that we came up with on this show air conditioning in iraq and afghanistan is costing us more than domestic programs that are being cut or targeted by republican lawmakers domestic programs that could really be making a difference it's more than national school lunches it's more than heating assistance it's more than a try v. and aids funding federally so i get super say that that's probably something we argue about to write just like we already knew the michele bachmann is going to run for president but the thing is that most americans don't know because it. the

mainstream media doesn't report it and that's what they missed. well today the international criminal court issued arrest warrants for libya's leader moammar gadhafi as well as his son safe and military intelligence chief of duels and to see how the warrants are for alleged crimes against humanity from february fifteenth to the twenty four judges at the hague said that there was sufficient evidence they could offer his two relatives ordered the killing and imprisonment of hundreds of civilians and the white house has already responded saying that this is another indication that when mark it off he has lost his legitimacy funny considering that the u.s. doesn't find the i.c.c. legitimate enough for the countries sign onto but how could these arrest warrants change the course of what's going on in libya from legitimizing more attacks to throwing a political deal out the window let's get to the bottom of it or discuss it with me is drunk the assistant editor and blogger for antiwar dot com john thanks so much

for being here tonight for starters let's think about this right moammar gadhafi isn't the only one out there with an arrest warrant out for his name you could say same thing sudanese president omar al bashir and that the west war was put out in two thousand and nine and yet he's still in power so does that make this kind of a non threat. yeah i think so i don't think it changes the calculus very much for qaddafi he had an incentive before to stick around as much as possible maybe hold out until congress starts to defund the war or something whatever happens and he still has that incentive but this is sort of the i.c.c. in this respect is sort of acting as a tool of u.s. foreign policy sort of a way to say look even if you will go yourself out of this he's still going to be hunted by the international community for trial at the i.c.c. so yeah i don't think it changes the calculus very much but even say also that part of u.s. foreign policy as well as foreign policy is mixed in this regard right because on

one hand we're being told that perhaps they do want to come to a political solution they would like to find a nice cozy luxurious place for more to retreat to benefit same time we have u.s. officials we've had an admiral last friday that even admitted on record yeah we've been trying to kill him the whole time so do you think that you know if you want to say that it's a tool of u.s. foreign policy is that legitimizing the assassination attempts yeah i think so i mean it's a stablish fact by this point that the u.s. is aiming specifically at regime change they've aimed at places. where they thought he was numerous times very mystical and then have their hands in libya for as long as possible to try and set up some client state that would be ideal for the u.s. so you had certainly justifies further attacks but it is that also i mean as you say there's some kind of a psychological game here right because a lot of people say that any political negotiations for him to step down will completely fall apart if he issue an arrest warrant that's going to make him dig

his heels in because once they say he doesn't have that many options of where he could go so they know he's going to dig his heels in they know they're going to get more chances to bomb away yeah that's why i think it doesn't change the calculus that much he knows he's in big trouble the world's only superpower is after him and the fact that. arrest warrant like you said bashir in two thousand and nine there's no head under. after him yeah it's just it doesn't change the calculus isn't it hypocritical though how come nobody looks at what jay carney today said of the white house press person when they say that this means that gadhafi isn't as legitimate and ask why it is then that the us is not part of the international criminal court well that's a really good question but if the u.s. were part of the international criminal court they'd have to sort of come to grips with the fact that many of their client states through the. support to commit the same crimes that gadhafi has been committing we were was the i.c.c.

in yemen when saleh who was enthusiastically supported by us was committing all sorts of atrocities to take care of the who could have been in rebellion in the north where was the i.c.c. in bahrain for example when it was opening fire on innocent nonviolent protesters. so you know the u.s. is inherently contradictory in their stances and thus they can't lend legitimacy to organization that wants to keep people in check what do you say where is the i.c.c. as well as in syria in fact congressman dennis kucinich is in syria right now what do you think of that what do you think the fact that he. he's flying all the way to syria to try to take care of this or whatever you want to call it and so it's interesting it's sort of surprising too because he's not he's sort of marginalized in the senate and the fact that he got to meet with someone like assad is sort of surprising i'm not sure you know what'll come out of it bashar is making assad is making the same promises he made in years past oh you know we need some reform i'm

going to stop the protests peacefully so on so forth and he's making them today as well for a change now in regards to libya of course the thing that we've heard repeatedly not as if promises mean anything anymore but this war is that there will be no troops on the ground the admiral locklear josh rogin from farm. see i had to have seen what he said to a congress member which then kind of put everyone on the spot because he not only said they have been trying to murder me since the beginning he also said that if they do that they're going to need troops on the ground do you think that that would be taken in with them finally get them people to start revolting and you know it is it would be nice if it did but it's sort of a long progression it's going the same direction we could have said before when the united states was still saying oh we just want to protect civilians before they said ok we actually want regime change we could have said oh once they say we want regime change everyone's going to get through ups will be out of the war but once

if gadhafi is taken out of power and then the u.s. wants to send in troops i'm afraid too many americans will just passively accept it as sort of mission creep they always do yeah it's a concern but i don't think that americans find that there is some kind of different you know the administration is trying to paint it as if there's a difference between hostilities where troops are involved and where they're not but i think that the americans might see it that way too as long as they think that we don't have men and women on the ground actually putting their lives at risk and they're just playing some operational role in the background gathering intelligence maybe i can be cool with that but then it a certain point what do you say it's possible but a lot of this sort of sentiment you're talking about should have been coming from obama supporters back before he surged in afghanistan the way bush did in iraq i'm skeptical in giving the american people a little bit too much credit in this regard we have a global military empire we're running five wars and they're still not upset enough

so i'm not sure that ground troops in libya would sum up too much overhead so what do you think about some of the congressional action that we saw last friday i think seemed a little confusing for people is that we saw the house vote down vote against a resolution to defund the war and we also saw them vote against a resolution that would allow the war to continue to feel like there hasn't been enough explanation there in the census as to why these people actually voted no against against you finding it. i think congress enjoys being impotent that way they don't have to you know be accountable they don't have to claim responsibility for any rash decisions they enjoy the fact that the imperial presidency can make war with impunity you were ever and whenever you want and that's why there's sort of you know all the gagging and trying to figure out which in my position be and how do i hedge this and why would i be moderate why do i you know be strong. and effective institution at this point when it comes to keeping

the president in check in terms of war powers and i think he'll continue to be i think the frustrating thing about that is that you know if you go back and you speak to some of the people like represented around paul that have been against this war since the beginning and it seems confusing upin voted. against defunding it but it's because the funding it in fact in the resolution involved finding a few programs you had even the anti-war people voting against because they plain and simple didn't want to give the obama administration any leeway because they always just say they entered unli congress did kind of approve this that right exactly there was all these exceptions within the bill that said you know we will be funding unless it's this or be funded unless it's that and it essentially. legitimated every action that's being taken right now things like funding for insight arming nato things like doing you know targeted attacks drone things like this so yeah that was the reason the anti-war bill which really wasn't was working

around well in the meantime i guess congress isn't doing. warrants issued for a rocket off he's a rast and we'll see if that really changes anything at this point thanks so much for joining us tonight our thanks. also to come tonight as relations a strong warning to any journalists covering a planned flotilla to gaza first this week when that story when we come back and also says that so long after a fifty day fast society look back at their work and we'll ask if this really isn't just the beginning. even the more hacks there are parts that i think is not. lead get up sometimes you see a story and it seems so for sleep you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear or see some other part of it and realize everything is off

you don't know i'm charging welcome to the big picture the first. early are broke. and yet still. plenty. fuck fuck fuck fuck.

let's not forget that we live in apartheid. i think. either one is well. whenever the government says they're keeping safe get ready for freedom. last year we brought you the story the flotilla that was attacked by israeli forces

as it was heading to the gaza strip to deliver eight out of the details of that specific attack remain contentious throughout much of the world looks like another flotilla is heading towards the region but israel and the united states are not wasting any time making very firm statements when it comes to the real purpose of these humanitarian aid ships for starters israel has come forward saying that any members of the press who actually cover the journey all being on this trip could be banned for the next ten years in the country and their equipment will be confiscated either already mixed reports coming out today as to whether or not israel is actually going to hold on to that threat to the media but one thing is clear the u.s. is going to continue to stand behind israel when it comes to this decades old conflict take a look at secretary of state hillary clinton take on the news of a new flotilla of the bout you embark. well we do not believe that the flotilla is a a necessary or useful effort to try to assist the people of gaza just this week the

israeli government approved a significant commitment to housing in gaza that there will be construction materials entering gaza and we think that it's it's not helpful for there to be flotillas that you know try to provoke actions by entering into israeli waters and. creating a situation in which the israelis have the right to defend themselves. so although she tends to touch on the issue delicately clinton that's not a point to say that these flotillas are seen as more a political statement than anything else she then goes on to support israel's right to defend itself and we should also note a point decline in greenwald from salon dot com highlights that they couldn't statement prove that the u.s. government is preemptively defending the possible violent attacks on the people who will be on this flotilla including american citizens no matter what your opinion is

on the flotilla as they head towards gaza where they help the situation or pay her for situation it should make everybody pause when you hear statements from the u.s. government but it's a case where attacks on their own citizens just might be ok of course if you interpret it that way and hopefully there will be no violence of this time around a flotilla said to reach gaza some time later this week and we're going to keep you updated with all the latest on all this saturday the hacktivist group also announced that after fifty days their crews have come to an end maybe saying goodbye for we get into what that may mean a let's take a little bit of time to walk through a quick timeline of their online presence and we did leave a few details out there's a lot of they did but in terms of the attacks on the government and their affiliates here it is and early may they first came out of the scene. they launched their twitter page and quickly demonstrated their skills by hacking the database for contestants on the talent show x. factor on may thirtieth the group hacked into p.b.s.

his website after they were disappointed by the frontline documentary on wiki leaks they're even posted a link to a big story declaring that he was still alive on the public news website and early june the hackers stole passwords from infor guard a firm who works with the f.b.i. after they learned that the pentagon declares them cyber attacks as tools of war but on june thirteenth they went directly after the government this time web site cited and well they didn't steal any information they did gain access to one of the main servers for that senate site i just gaze later they also went after the cia website however they did not steal any information from that's night site it was more of a denial of service attack and was probably more of an inconvenience and an embarrassment than anything else now this is also around a time when the seem to start teaming up with another hapless organization anonymous june twenty first nineteen year old brian cleary was arrested in the u.k.

on the allegations that he tied was tied to the group and took to their twitter pages to say the clear was not involved in their efforts and the f.b.i. also conducted a raid on a firm in located in virginia where they obtained a rack of servers that they deemed were suspicious and some people speculated that that raid may have also had to do with security on june twenty fourth also when after arizona in protest of their contentious immigration law s.b. ten seventy the group hacked the state's department of public safety and repose to e-mails passwords and other private information belonging to members of the department and then finally this past saturday like announced that they were quitting but is this really the end of the half of us group or are they just assimilating themselves and the larger framework of the anti security operation with anonymous joining me the disk. system our studio in new york is john young the webmaster of cryptome dot org john thank you so much for joining us tonight. for

starters. some people out there are just speculating that maybe lol psych hasn't actually quit and they were just doing this to get a little attention or for more lowell's to get a lot of people what do you say. i think the question will not go away i think they will use different kinds of. operations to do what they do and that i think that they're just the tip of the iceberg i think there are thousands of people doing this activity so if they did not seek publicity. why have you no i think that's interesting that you say that as the most of these people do not seek publicity what do you make of the very public matter in which first anonymous and then well security which i guess you could say even more conducted their hacking campaigns. well it's a better personal style some folks like to work in public and to teach you know this right to work right make a decision through the security field as well so the loudest melcher in the security field are not very good the best people keep it quiet and this is true in military service will do just fine so that the people who get close to it you are

not the best people so are you saying that perhaps a little saying is not the best. not at all. but your but they are quite good at getting published in show that there is a style of doing this for publicity and attention eventually quite a number of celebrated people do things like history teachers but most accomplished people do not seek to teach and they do it quite obviously than here in that case who is the best out there that perhaps we don't know about where are they working for the government you and i was talking about this before the possibility of many hackers working as a informants or are they in the end. i would call the bigoted it's the best way to read it to figure notice when it was government or with commerce or with education they keep it to themselves or they are available to to work with institutions like this because to particularly inept incompetent incompetent. and that's why they

probably need a new city they put more money into press releases than they do to technology. on this wondering you know there was a lot of speculation that perhaps there was some infighting within the law security of course there are other groups of hackers that threaten to expose some of their names do you think that sometimes i mean they claim that there is only six and that is easier sometimes they just become a part of a a larger loose collection people like anonymous rather than only having six people be all security where you put yourself at more risk for exposure. well i'll just say that to remember wishing you could come down there is you know wolf small groups or it's the largest group there is the queue for your sleeve that aligns with different people and they state the best people stay on the news they do not sadly really capable of any predictable pattern. because they don't like to be traced that way and show that those six i think just moved on to a different formation. do you think if they got they may have gotten scared off

a little bit because of course brian cleary was arrested in the u.k. although they said that they were only loosely affiliated with him there were stories coming out. indeed the government was trying to create some sort of investigation to go after them and find them. so the government would have a hard time. it became clear that between. more than your number than they are they actually could be given in this room different forms. they're coming to and i'm sure the like hearing out what do you think of the way that the media really has on the story i mean we hear on they want to show we've been covering anonymous we've covered all security since they first came onto the scene but then you even have you know the mainstream news organizations suddenly start reporting on them every single day. it's pretty shuttle stuff. it's kind of

a character in but there's very little information in most of the stories maybe i'm still providing a referral from nation that kind of reports stuff that's already been reported elsewhere ok so you'll find someone who gets some people information most of it. do you think that some people are are in fact concerned i've read a few critique sang of the media has been too kind to anonymous and whole security because they're simply just too scared to critique them because they themselves might get hacked do you think that hackers or somebody that should scare journalists. i know it's i think journalists probably don't understand much of this and they're they're doing the best they can but i think it takes some technical skills that most journalists don't have to understand this stuff so they do it in a shallow way now i should say that readers prefer to shout away to visually they'll be more and more people who have the skills of hackers and then become an ordinary skilled just like you don't need to read that's an inch of generational

thing an educational things a lot of this stuff is taking place outside of formal schools of education and these young people are teaching themselves and they do have some older people working with them but the best people are self-taught why does care as to how far do you think the government might go if we do indeed keep seeing more of these hacks in terms of trying to crack down and go after them do you think of actually have any idea what they're doing. i think they ought to publish a campaign right now to to inflate the threat they're actually seeking greater funding for cyber warfare several initiatives going on around the world for this and i think the table but only through it but the chill accounting office the other day reported that most of the g.o.p. to show up are totally inept about these numbers but they're going to put this city argile i want to thank you very much for joining us tonight and of course we'll have to wait and see if we also like really is done and whether as a kerry operation an anon do you keep leading the charge thanks so much. and

welcome. all stories of impending disaster usually capture the hearts and minds of both the media and the american people there was this story we haven't really seen your typical amount of coverage the state of nebraska is dealing with major floods and fears are now as collating after rising waters had reached a protective a temporary berm for the fort calhoun nuclear facility. as far as the. tourist. you can read it. so you can story. now all fish will say that there's no potential threat to the public the floodwaters have forced the facility to shut down and stop producing electricity meanwhile wildfires are to blame for a shutdown at the los alamos facility in new mexico and all of the fire there is currently a mile away fish was there say the plant has been closed to the public and all radioactive material is accounted for on the labs website says l a n l's emergency operations center remains operational observation aircraft are currently conducting

aerial surveys to gauge the fire's growth and current size overnight as a precaution the lab cut natural gas to technical areas in l.a. and remote southwest area all hazardous and radioactive materials remain accounted for and are appropriately protected as are key lab facilities such as protonix celebrator and supercomputing centers although both of these facilities facilities emphasize safety under the threat of natural disasters a maries of a push you know plan japan are still pretty fresh in people's minds and the earthquake. facility the government failed to tell the public about the real health threats now causing a lot of people to question that although america hasn't yet faced a record breaking earthquake a lot of people here in the u.s. are also questioning how safe is nuclear facilities in new mexico and brass they really are and why we aren't hearing more about it so what word finally get out years later the people living near this missile. in los alamos and for example when

our fact in danger only time is going to tell but one thing is for sure it's just this is a is growing fast. now sort of constant our monday edition of if you said it i read it respond to some of your comments about the show online and then talks over raising the debt ceiling are heating up again on the white house and congress repealed for august but in from the topic and more with dean baker co-director of the center for economic and policy research in just a moment. into a little bit with three mechanisms you don't work to bring justice or accountability. i have. to go with my government if you want to know why i. would characterize obama as the charismatic. of american exceptionalism.