so there you are choosing to r t the headlines are for you now the greek capital is braced for more violence amid a general strike and huge protest where forty six were injured in clashes with police the rest comes just ahead of parliament's key vote on that even harsh austerity measures to avoid defaulting on debt. the greek economic turmoil is the first challenge from a new international monetary fund chief christina god the first woman to head the

organization faces the tough task of fighting off a perception that i.m.f. is biased in favor of western countries. and fears grow that on the rest in syria might try the militant group has been a lot of weapons its border into lebanon threatening to stoke up further trouble in the region meanwhile israel is reportedly deploying a new missile defense systems in its border with lebanon. and are debating a program of course talk with people about is next. you can. follow and welcome to cross talk among people about the freedom flotilla two point zero over a thousand protocol is to be an activist from twenty two countries are said to join freedom flotilla two in a bid to break israel's five year blockade on gaza where one point five million

palestinians live what remains to be seen is whether they'll be a violent repeat of last year's flotilla to gaza. strip. to cross-talk a second freedom flotilla i'm joined by jack of hearts in jerusalem he's a military correspondent and defense analyst for the jerusalem post also in jerusalem we have chris gunness he is a spokes person for the united nations relief and works agency a neutral humanitarian organization with over ten thousand workers on the ground in gaza who's neutral work is based on the united nations charter and universal declaration and in chicago we cross to ali abunimah he is co-founder of the electronic intifada and author of one country a bold proposal to end the israeli palestinian impasse hi gentlemen this is cross talk and i mean cross talk rules in effect but first let's have a look at what is called the second attempt to break the gaza blockade. a dangerous

provocation or a bold move in defiance of a blockade freedom flotilla two sets of sales for troubled waters again only a year after its predecessors tragic attempt to deliver humanitarian aid to the gaza strip ignoring grave warnings from the israeli government the convoys carrying some one thousand activists from twenty countries determined to break an israeli blockade of the palestinian territory but after the recent political breakthrough in cairo and the easing of passage through the rougher crossing on the egyptian border to allow passage of people and goods the flotilla campaign may look more like an attempt to talk on television and corner its security forces into aggression despite last year's debacle that saw nine activists killed and forty more wounded there is really government has vowed to continue intercepting any vessels that proceed to gaza shores due to security concerns we've already introduced this. time for hamas from the role and training hundreds

of tons of weapons israel simply cannot. work and some more mature for more from the city but this time it seems to be more about a tug of war between israel and pro palestinian forces as well as israel's resolve to avoid a presence that would undermine its grip on gaza that will see you know this is all about and the u.s. has made it clear that it stands by its traditional ally and has even one of american citizens to stay clear of the second quarter or to gaza we do not believe that it would too it is a necessary useful for to try to see the people of gaza and we think it's not going to be free to us try to. enter into is really waters and creating a situation in which these are really scared of the right to be found. nonetheless the organizers of the flotilla remain determined even in the face of possible violence it would seem that breaking the blockade of gaza is the key to

alleviating will the united nations says has led to a humanitarian crisis in gaza. pains . are suffering. the second freedom flotilla to gaza faces many of the same political and security issues of the first rotella the palestinians and their international supporters demand an end to what they deem as the legal blockade of gaza but israel sounds more isolated and st move gazans than ever choose to avoid the kind of catastrophic p.r. it received over its confrontation with the first for tila or will it remain as uncompromising about its security as it's always been. for across top our team. ok chris if i can go to you in jerusalem and preparing for this program you get two different points of view what is this is this

a political provocation or is that noble humanitarian mission because depending on what you want to read in western media it's one of the other and mostly it is a provocation how do you react to that being on the ground and knowing gaza so well . well the position of the united nations relief and works agency for which i speak is very clear on this if there were no humanitarian crisis if there weren't a crisis in almost every aspect of life in gaza there'd be no need for tailor if there were a blockade there'd be no need for the fertility let's look at the basic humanitarian facts on the ground ninety five percent of all water in gaza is undrinkable forty percent of all disease is water boarding is caused by poor water forty five point two percent of the labor force is unemployed eighty percent a dependency a tripling of the abject poor since the blockade there is clearly a crisis in every aspect of life in gaza we're trying to build schools one hundred new schools big problems there there's a crisis of education there's

a crisis of public health millions of gallons of untreated sewage floating into the sea every day because there's a crisis of public health let's get rid of this blockade and there be no need for a fertility ok i'm going to you are so in jerusalem so there is a need for this photo flotilla to just for more awareness reasons than any other purpose according to what christians say. well i think that in general the people of gaza definitely to some extent are suffering but i think that there are different ways to insert humanitarian aid to the gaza strip we saw recently the decision by the egyptian government to open up the rougher crossing in gaza shares a lengthly border with egypt which they would be able to use if anyone were to ask to be able to transfer goods from egypt into gaza israel maintains land crossings that are used almost anything really basis for close to two hundred trucks if not more to transfer medicine supplies and humanitarian goods to the gaza strip and

as chris mentioned before schools are being built in gaza israel has approved dozens of schools for some reason is dragging its feet and not working and taking action on some of those permits that it's been approved to move forward with inserting the building equipment but since last year's flotilla israel is definitely lax up the restrictions on the gaza strip i don't think that this is the way to do it we've seen most recently in february was the victoria ship carrying a rainy in arms sophisticated missiles and radars to hamas in the gaza strip israel has said it cannot allow for ships to sail freely to gaza because they will carry weapons for hamas which will then use them to attack israeli cities and therefore if you really care for the palestinians use either egypt or israeli ports and land crossings to bring in humanitarian goods why do it through the sea when israel says it won't allow it to happen because of its security unless you really are seeking a provocation ok only if i go to you in chicago why would this flotilla under any

circumstances at all bring arms as part of a humanitarian and never i mean this is this a decent so counterintuitive i don't understand why the israelis are so upset about this unless they just don't want to see a precedent to be set where a flotilla can break the blockade that's what it's all about not security breaking the blockade is that right or wrong. well nobody believes that there are going to be arms on these ships not even the israeli government and as it's reported yesterday and i quote verbatim security officials and and foreign ministry representatives informed the cabinet on sunday that israel has no information indicating that terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the fla tilla and according to the same israeli government sources. the flu tiller participants will be european peace activists and american peace activists and others presumably not interested in file and and will quote present

a more difficult public diplomacy challenge so not even the israelis believe that this flotilla is a threat and in fact it's a mistake to reduce this to an issue of humanitarian aid because for example the us boat to gaza is not carrying humanitarian aid it's carrying only letters written by americans directed to people in gaza letters of solidarity and aboard the us go to gaza is eighty seven year old holocaust survivor haiti epstein pulitzer prize winning american novelist alice walker and a number of other americans all of whose names and faces are available on the u.s. boat to gaza website so we have the absurd situation now where israeli commandos are training to prevent an eighty seven year old holocaust survivor from reaching the gaza strip and the real problem here is that israel is trying to

present the fla tilla as a military threat to the military situation when absolutely nobody not even the israeli government believes that and the point about the blockade in white people is seeking to break it is because israeli officials themselves for example israeli foreign minister avigdor lieberman in june. last year have stated clearly that the purpose of the blockade is collective punishment and political ok sure that's a very very important point seriously if i go to you how do you react to that because it is we hear this a lot from members of the international community this is collective punishment against the people of gaza how do you respond to that. i know personally i find it to be a little absurd you know israel pulled out of the gaza strip in two thousand and five with a hand extended for peace pulled out of the international borders instead of having the houses that are left behind and the settlements that are left behind to be used to to build agriculture and to build industry hamas which vialli took over gaza in

two thousand and seven decided to continuously attack israel with reigning arms that it pains through ships that try to sail to gaza or to egypt and smuggled into the gaza strip pulled from the tunnels that time was under under under under under listen to the tree was a commission so i think that excuse me i think that once again i think although i think it was years israel has fired it is that israel is a sovereign state has the right israel is a sovereign state has israel is supposed to protect your citizens and to protect its gaza part of israel want to go to prison before the break i think it is and i want to go to chris before the break that we just heard an interesting comment chris chris i devoted christian please before we go to the freeway please please universe before the break then is how much christmas how much is how much autonomy does faith because of this have ok if israel isn't in control very little because although you're close enough that although mr katz is talking precisely there's

been no exports you can go in the month of may there is a there's a blockade there is an occupation israel controls the land the sea in the airspace in international all that means there is an occupation going on and if i could just respond to one thing that mr katz said earlier it's a drag it's for your good those along with ashley young called life chris mr counselor utilizing here the belief you speak for those of us who are used to yeah because katz's norman i don't see how you start you'll be using water without your we've just heard from him is a classic of the genre the idea is striking it's gentlemen i'm really just mean right now we'll continue this gosh discussion right where we left off after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the phone. hiller stay with artists . it's the british see come up. the beach.

twenty years ago in the largest country in some observatories it was. the. slums held him it's come up to the general church. where did it take. the luck. of the are lucky. lucky. this is a. the beauty of mum a mum.

can. still. welcome that cross time people don't remind you we're talking about freedom flotilla to point out. you can. say. ok chris you're starting before the the break started to explain the situation of. if i could say the relationship between israel and gaza i mean how much autonomy does the gaza strip have and isn't it just israel want to determine the economic development of it i mean the there seems to be this intends to control everything that is done in gaza to make sure that it's no threat

to israel and they can have no independent policy of its own but i did domestically or with other palestinians or abroad. thank you peace of give me this chance i think you've said it all israel is. because israel controls the land sea and air space of cause effect of control means there's no completion but if i could address something which mr katz said earlier about why not bring things in through russia i'm afraid this is yet another example of his evidence free of journalism completely lacking any acquaintance with the situation on the ground i've actually been through the roof across and it's one small road going north it's one small road going south if you like under a need to feed seven hundred fifty thousand people each day it is hopelessly inadequate that is why we say to israel allow us to do our humanitarian through the poorest of the few weeks severely he's trying to finish a trail the elderly and costing israel's heard hungary's are tons of humanitarian goods to gaza through iraq just

a few weeks ago europeans should not say the way to run trains we've been saying for. gentlemen john we hear you are going to jump in here illegally in chicago to the gentlemen i'm going to go to chicago right now i'm going to chicago how is the blockade of gaza counterproductive for israel's own interests how would you address that because it doesn't seem to get israel and score any points whatsoever ok what does it get from blockading gaza. well let's step back for a minute and if you listen to what yacov katz says he's representing very well the israeli government viewpoint it's very clear what the agenda is the the israeli agenda is to disconnect gaza which is part and parcel of historic palestine and its people to disconnect it completely to him it thickly seal it and to dump it on to egypt that's why he's saying why don't you bring the goods through egypt but what

is gaza really it is a giant prison for one point six million people eighty percent of them refugees from towns and villages destroyed towns and villages the in what is now israel and israel wants nothing to do with them for one reason only and that's because the jews that's the fundamentally racist nature of this blockade because if the people of gaza who are native an indigenous to palestine know what mr katz would call israel israel would open the prison gates of gaza and welcome them home so this is why the blockade is fundamentally political fundamentally of racist and fundamentally if you're going to have a chance to resist them israel wants to throw them all into egypt and then knock palestinians on the parts of egypt on their part of palestine and i notice the can yes i mean unless you respond right now you have to go ahead in jerusalem go ahead

go ahead replied the alley i apologize but i think i'll use is completely falsifying the fact that israel has continuously offered the palestinians in negotiations a palestinian state guilty and establish land in the gaza strip and the west bank with continuity in a way of connecting those two parts of the play is this israel. new in the deck eyes and if there are twenty which is into the air ventilation is this really so it is interesting as the photo is really the reason is because it's a sure it. did. because they are this gentleman we're all talking over there else quietly go ahead. chris go ahead i want chris to go you are saying something i have an example i have no idea where he is going. to go ahead chris here gentlemen israel has the right to do this it's ok we'll talk about it if you can begin to build a state this idea that because they can become part of a state and that israel is opening its arms wide to that possibility simply is not

borne out in reality to begin with the policy of isolating blockading both politically and economically of course does not sit with what mr katz is saying you cannot possibly think that you could have a viable state in the situation in gaza is in there is a policy of collective punishment and that has been condemned as a violation of international that's why israel is finding itself did it in my eyes because it's on the wrong side of international law if israel wanted to the just might itself and as a member states the un i sincerely hope that israel does and i would support the process then it has to get on the right side of international law that means lifting this blockade which is a violation of international law it is a collective punishment and it will send the idea that collective punishment can somehow lead to statehood is an absurdity is the cat's nose that gentlemen gentlemen we have to be fair here yes of course here you know go ahead because it's

two against one here go ahead i want to give you the paratime go ahead. well i'm in the middle little to be honest i think i'll say that grant that that that the. look at the numbers and the fact that the term blockade is is just it's not accurate because if you look over the past year and past half a year at least over ten thousand to fifteen thousand palestinians have been allowed into israel for medical treatment trucks over two hundred crossing to gaza and a daily basis in israel sea blockade has been confirmed reaffirmed it approved by international organizations by the united nations and by different allies of israel . as of the security zones in security purposes right now a guy who for a guy. i mean you bring up a very interesting one ali and i go to you is the blockade legal or illegal under international law let's clear this up go ahead holly i really don't think you should cause you know you're trying to please go ahead you find personal helping me in chicago go ahead i would think that the united nations would have spokespeople who can go ahead. well if mr katz will allow me the

international committee of the red cross last june. see. to see the siege and the blockade is illegal numerous un and other bodies have declared that it's illegal and of course israeli officials themselves have stated that the purpose is collected collective punishment i can read you data in quotes from the israeli foreign minister avigdor lieberman among others saying the caucus for example is to apply political pressure to force palestinians to release the single israeli prisoner of war held in the gaza strip which understandable that israel might want him freed but it's absolutely illegal under international law to apply collective punishment to a civilian population in order to free prisoners of war but that's what israeli officials themselves explain that they're doing and these are crimes by the way

punishable under international law under the sudden fourth geneva conventions so we don't need to even wait for mr gun is so other u.n. officials have to say i have to say we can just listen to israeli officials like leave them and explaining their punitive and illegal intent of this blockade and as i mentioned and i stress this israeli officials themselves say one thing in english to the international press and another thing in hebrew in english they're talking about all the scary things that might be on the ship with holocaust survivor had the epstein and hebrew there briefing the cabinet that we have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any threat coming from this patella so mr katz's husband may may walk in far right wing circles in israel but it's it's why israel is in such a bad client in terms of arguably pichler ratio public. when you complete sex

relations you just don't. i mean you have just like i did ask you a question years can i ask you a question do you think that even fired at israeli cities will be as good you think he's really dilatory will tell i'm sorry gentlemen this is my miscanthus seashells we keep this orderly here you know if i could ask you if the israeli government doesn't think that this hotel is a threat do you think it will use military force to stop it in the next few days. i think that israel israel plans to enforce the sea blockade over the gaza strip because if it allows the ships to sail freely into gaza first of all yes there is a chance that they are carrying weapons that they are carrying terrorist we saw that in last year's flotilla there were armed mercenaries aboard the motorcade that's your ship mavi marmara which lynch to try saline to israeli soldiers and israel holding only had allowed him to sell really just because of that concerns and the same just as good as his hands. were to allow these ships to sail into

gaza then it would create a precedent that would then allow a ship like victoria which is several months ago tried to sail to gaza with the rainy and anti she already has a really. tough you know green you may have brought up an interesting word precedent here and i think that's what everybody's looking at a precedent chris is this what the israelis are most for afraid of is that the blockade will be broken and if it's broken broken once in a big p.r. way they'll be no way for it to enforce it in the future. well peter if you want to unpack israeli paranoia and hysteria you should really be speaking so yaakov katz mr kurtz and not to me but certainly i think that what he was talking about was about the binds in terms of international p.r. that israel is in is a very interesting point because on the international stage israel is looking increasingly dealerships in my eyes and again one can quote be told even and other israeli officials one doesn't have to make an argument at all here and i think that this blockade and this flotilla that is in response to it i think is

a real danger for israel's international reputation and so far israel is really floundering it show it show no real response that i think convinces the world audience out there that it really is acting in a manner which is legitimate and is the kind of behavior that one expects from the state and i think the fact that the full till is in response to an illegal collective punishment considerably weakens already weakened the case right now and where your last word in the program go ahead in chicago is where we go from here now ali you can say as much as everyone else go ahead. heater i think if we call him in the israeli unfolds by chris and we look at the fact that ships have been carrying weapons to the gaza strip for only go ahead jump in what you've said here at least solid state has for us and it will displace journalism well it israel you know israel needs to end its occupation of blockade of the gaza strip it needs to end it needs to end its occupation and colonize ation and settlement of the west

bank it needs to end its system ask me to scale a nation as a talisman since arose of israel all right gentlemen this is very much what i see from this group of time many thanks my guess a dangerous limb and in chicago and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk rules. keep. warm.