dozens are getting what they want because they have the money and pretty soon we're going to be spending some time in prison for minor offenses so there needs to be a revolution when it comes to situations like this all right there you have it an equestrian calling for revolution of the young turks thanks so much for being with us and that's going to do it for now for more on the stories we've covered or r.t. dot com slash usa and i'll see you right back here for more news shortly. more news today violence is once again flared up. these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. showing corporations around the day.

mission is. pretty sure three. four chargers three. arrangement three. three. three. golds live video for your media project a free. download the official allocation. i pod touch from the. video. world comes. with the palm of your. machine on the. market here broadcasting live from washington d.c. coming up today on the big picture.

the you can. lead. alone and welcome to cross talk i'm peter lavelle freedom flotilla two point zero the risk thousand pro palestinian activists from twenty two countries for such a joint freedom flotilla two in a bid to break israel's five year blockade on gaza where one point five million palestinians live what we may be seen is whether they'll be a violent repeat of last year's flotilla to gaza.

you crossed out the second freedom flotilla i'm joined by cots in jerusalem he's a military correspondent and defense analyst for the jerusalem post also in jerusalem we have chris gunness he is a spokesperson for the united nations relief and works agency a neutral humanitarian organization with over ten thousand workers on the ground in gaza who's neutral work is based on the united nations charter and universal declaration and in chicago we cross the ali abunimah he is co-founder of the electronic intifada and author of one country a bold proposal to end the israeli palestinian impasse all right gentlemen this is cross talk and i mean cross talk rules in effect but first let's have a look at what is called the second attempt to break the gaza blockade. at the interest provocation or a bold move in defiance of a blockade freedom flotilla two sets of sails for troubled waters again only

a year after its predecessors tragic attempt to deliver humanitarian aid to the gaza strip ignoring grave warnings from those railway government convoys carrying some one thousand activists from twenty countries determined to break an israeli blockade of the palestinian territory but after the recent political breakthrough in cairo and the easing of passage through the rougher crossing on the egyptian border to allow passage of people and goods a flotilla campaign will look more like an attempt on television and corner it security forces into aggression despite last year's debacle that's online activists killed and forty more wounded israeli government has vowed to continue intercepting any vessels that proceed to gaza shores intrinsic your concerns we've already introduced to this she's gone four and four miles from the role and turning hundreds of thousands of workers and you simply cannot. work them somewhat. almost from the ship but this time it seems to be more about

a tug of war between israel and pro palestinian forces as well as israel's resolve to avoid a presence that would undermine its grip on gaza that we see here this is over there and the u.s. has made it clear that it stands by its traditional ally and has even warned american citizens to stay clear of the second photo rights of gaza we do not believe therefore to you it is a necessary or useful effort to try to see the people of gaza and we'll see that it's not for there to be for to us try to prove all connections back and to israeli warships and create a situation in which these are really the right to defend themselves. in the us the organizers of the flotilla remain determined even in the face of possible violence it would seem that breaking the blockade of gaza is the key to alleviating but the united nations says has led to a humanitarian crisis in gaza. bain's

. suffering. such a long hike in freedom flotilla to gaza faces many of the same political and security issues of the first flotilla the palestinians and their international supporters demands an end to what they deem as an illegal blockade of gaza but israel stands more isolated and street move gazans than ever would choose to avoid the kind of catastrophic p.r. it received over its confrontation with the first full tele or will it remain as uncompromising about its security as it's always been. a crosstalk. ok chris if i can go to you in jerusalem in preparing for this program you get two different points of view what is this is this a political provocation or is it a humanitarian mission because depending on what you want to read in western media it's one of the other and mostly it is

a provocation how do you react to that being on the ground and knowing gaza so well . well the position of the united nations relief and works agency for which i speak is very clear on this if there were no humanitarian crisis if there weren't a crisis in almost every aspects of life in gaza there'd be no need for the fertility if there were blockade there be no need for the fertility let's look at the basic humanitarian facts on the ground ninety five percent of all water in gaza is undrinkable forty percent of all disease is water borne is caused by poor water forty five point two percent of the labor force is unemployed eighty percent a dependency a tripling of the abject poor since the blockade there is clearly a crisis in every aspect of life in gaza we're trying to build schools one hundred new schools big problems there there's a crisis of education there's a crisis of public health millions of gallons of untreated sewage floating into the sea every day because there's a crisis of public health let's get rid of this blockade and there be no need for

a fertility ok i know you are so in jerusalem so there is a need for this photo just for more awareness reasons than any other purpose according to what christians said. well i think that in general the people of gaza definitely to some extent are suffering but i think that there are different ways to be able to insert humanitarian aid to the gaza strip we saw recently the decision by the egyptian government to open up the rougher crossing in gaza shares a link the border with egypt which they would be able to use see if anyone would ask to be able to transfer goods from egypt into gaza israel maintains land crossings that are used almost on a daily basis for close to two hundred trucks if not more to transfer medicine supplies and humanitarian goods to the gaza strip and as chris mentioned before schools are being built in gaza approved dozens of schools for some reason is

dragging its feet and not working and taking action on some of those permits that it's been approved to move forward with inserting the building equipment but since last year's flotilla israel is definitely lacks step the restrictions on the gaza strip i don't think that this is the way to do it we've seen most recently in february was the victoria ship interest caring a rainy in arms sophisticated missiles in radars to hamas in the gaza strip israel has said it cannot allow for ships to sail freely to gaza because they will carry weapons for hamas which will then use them to attack israeli cities and therefore if you really care for the palestinians use either egypt or israeli courts and land crossings to bring in humanitarian goods why you do it through the sea when israel says it won't allow it to happen because of its security unless you really are seeking a provocation ok ali if i go to you in chicago why would this photo under any circumstances at all bring arms as part of a humanitarian endevor i mean this is so counterintuitive i don't understand why the israelis are so upset about this unless they just don't want to see

a precedent to be set where a photo look can break the blockade that's what it's all about not security breaking the blockade is that right or wrong. well nobody believes that there are going to be arms on these ships not even the israeli government and it's reported yesterday and i quote verbatim security officials and and foreign ministry representatives informed the cabinet on sunday that israel has no information indicating that terrorists or anyone affiliated with a terror group is planning to take part in the flotilla and according to the same israeli government sources. the flotilla participants will be european peace activists and american peace activists and others presumably not interested in violence and will quote present a more difficult public diplomacy challenge so not even the israelis believe that this flotilla is a threat and in fact it's

a mistake to reduce this to an issue of humanitarian aid because for example the u.s. boat to gaza is not carrying humanitarian aid it's carry only letters written by americans directed to people in gaza letters of solidarity and deplored the u.s. spoke to gaza is eighty seven year old holocaust survivor had the epstein pulitzer prize winning american novelist alice walker and a number of other americans all of whose names and faces are available on the u.s. boat to gaza website so we have the absurd situation now where israeli commandos are training to prevent an eighty seven year old holocaust survivor from reaching the gaza strip and the real problem here is that israel is trying to present the fla tilla as a military threat to the military situation when absolutely nobody not even the israeli government believes that and the power point about the blockade and why

people are seeking to break it is because israeli officials themselves for example israeli foreign minister i think though lieberman in june. last year have stated clearly that the purpose of the blockade is collective punishment and political ok sure that's a very very important point here if i go to you kate how do you react to that because it is we hear this a lot from members of the international community this is collective punishment against the people of gaza how do you respond to that. i you know personally i find it to be a little absurd you know israel pulled out of the gaza strip in two thousand and five with a hand extended for peace pulled out of the international borders instead of having the houses that are left behind and the settlements that are left behind to be used to to build agriculture and to build industry hamas which trial he took over gaza in two thousand and seven decided to continuously attack israel with the reigning arms that it obtains through ships that try to sail to gaza or to egypt and smuggle

drugs into the gaza strip he pulled from the tunnels that from the tunnels under under under under until recently the israel gaza commission so i think that excuse me i think that once again i think all the important and yet israel has fired it is that israel is a sovereign states has the right and israel is a sovereign state has israel is a part of professor existence and to protect is because a part of israel want to go to the british before the break i want to get a simple i want to go to chris before the break that we just heard an interesting comment by chris christie i did go to chris please forward one of the for you why police legal because before the break there is how much more is how much is how much autonomy does the gazans have ok if israel isn't in control very little because although you are close enough that although mr katz is talking precisely there's been no exports of goals of in the month of may there is a there's a blockade there is an occupation israel controls the land the sea in the airspace

in international that means there is an occupation going on and if i could just respond to one thing that mr katz said earlier that people like you and so dry good for your good those along with ashley young life christmas day council utilized here at least if you speak for those of us who are used to young katz's i don't see how you start to be using water without your we've just heard from him is a classic of the genre the idea that under is dragging its feet all right gentlemen i mean right now we'll continue this question discussion right where we left off after a short break we'll continue our discussion on the phone. stay with are to. pull up the taken against such among the few who want to come up. twenty years ago the largest country in the suitcases was.

the first one how did you choose to follow such began a journey. where did it take the. extra. gave police. chief to leave we've come. to the. next step. the luck in egypt since the founding. of the pledge. welcome back to cross talk i'm here old ultra mind you we're talking about freedom flotilla two point zero. plugs the game

sled. ok chris so you're starting that far away the break started to explain the situation now but if i could say the relationship between israel and gaza i mean how much autonomy does the gaza strip have and isn't it just israel wanting to german the economic development of it i mean they there seems to be this incantation control everything that is done in gaza to make sure that it's no threat to israel and they can have no independent policy of its own to either domestically or with other palestinians or abroad. thank you peace of give me the stars i think you've said it all israel is patient because israel controls the land sea and air space of gaza effective control means there's not patient but if i could address something which mr katz said earlier about why not bring things in through rafa i'm afraid this is yet another example

of his evidence free of journalism completely lacking any acquaintance with the situation on the ground i've actually been through the rough across and it's one small road going north it's one small road going south if you like under a need to feed seven hundred fifty thousand people each day it is hopelessly inadequate that is why we say to israel allow us to do our humanitarian work the poorest of the few weeks severely europeans on a finish trail the elderly and costing israel's heard hundreds of tons of humanitarian goods to gaza through rafa just a few weeks ago it was europeans should not sail away to run trains with these things for. gentlemen an olive branch i mean here you are seeing a judge here is a god only in chicago to the gentlemen i didn't go to chicago right now i'm going to chicago is how is the blockade of gaza counterproductive for israel's own interests how would you address that because it doesn't seem to get israel and its

core any points whatsoever ok what does it get from blockading gaza. well let's step back for a minute and if you listen to what pat says he's representing very well the israeli government viewpoint it's very clear what the agenda is the only agenda is to disconnect gaza which is part and parcel of historic palestine and its people to disconnect it completely to hermitic the ceilidh and to dump it into egypt that's why he's saying why don't you bring the goods through egypt but what is gaza really it is a giant prison for one point six million people eighty percent of them refugees from towns and villages destroyed towns and villages the in what is now israel and israel wants nothing to do with them for one reason only and that's because they're not jews that's the fundamentally racist nature of this blockade because if

the people of gaza who are native and indigenous to palestine know what mr katz would call israel israel would open the prison gates of gaza and welcome them home so this is why the blockade is fundamentally political fundamentally of racist and fundamentally b.s. you're going to have a chance to respond to them israel wants to throw them all into egypt and they're not palestinians are part of egypt they're part of palestine and i noticed the can you something i should respond right now you can go ahead in jerusalem go ahead go ahead replied the alley i apologize but i think ali is completely falsifying the fact that israel has continuously offered the palestinians in negotiations a palestinian state built on an established land in the gaza strip and the west bank with continuity in a way of connecting those two persons even though is this is really three parts of new in the deep eyes and if there are twenty percent of the error of their latest

israeli citizen stresses the trial is going. to resume in because there she ripped through all this. his role in the only evidence raising ours is because they are this gentleman we're all talking over there else quietly go ahead. chris go ahead i want chris to go you are saying something i have example i have you have going because you disagree chris christie gentlemen israel has the right to do this it's ok we're happy about it if you can begin to build a state this idea that garza can become part of a state and that israel is opening its arms wide to that possibility simply is not borne out in reality to begin with the policy of isolating blockading both politically and economically of course does not sit with what mr katz is saying you cannot possibly think that you could have a viable state in the situation the gaza is in there is a policy of collective punishment and that has been condemned as

a violation of international that's why israel is finding itself illegitimate because it's on the wrong side of international law if israel wanted to the just might itself and as a member state of the un i sincerely hope that israel does and i would support the process then it has to get on the right side of international law that means lifting this blockade which is a violation of international law it's a collective punishment and send the idea that collective punishment can somehow lead to statehood is an absurdity is the cat's messed up gentlemen gentlemen we have to be fair here because going here you know go ahead because it's two against one here go ahead i want to give you the paratime go ahead. i'm in the middle ritual to be going to say that. that that the. look at the numbers in the fact that the term blockade is is just it's not accurate because if you look over the past year and the past half a year at least over ten thousand to fifteen thousand palestinians have been allowed into israel for medical treatment trucks over two hundred crossing to gaza

on a daily basis in israel sea blockade has been confirmed to be reaffirmed approved by pa international organizations by the united nations and by different allies of israel. as it was fairly soon since and security purposes right now a guy here for a guy who you can look at this and you'll see i mean you bring up a very interesting one ali and i to you is to blockade legal or illegal under international law let's clear this out go ahead colleagues that really bothers you should you go you try to please go ahead on personal helping me in chicago go ahead i would think that the united nations would have spokespeople. go ahead. well if mr katz will allow me the international committee of the red cross last june. see. to see the siege and the blockade is illegal numerous un and other bodies have declared that it's illegal and of course israeli officials themselves have stated that the purpose is collected collective punishment i can read you the bait

in quotes from the israeli foreign minister avigdor lieberman among others saying the us for example is to apply political pressure to force palestinians to release the single israeli prisoner of war held in the gaza strip which understandable that israel might want him freed that it's absolutely illegal under international law to apply collective punishment to a civilian population in order to free prisoners of war but that's what israeli officials themselves explain that they're doing and these are crimes by the way punishable under international law under the third and fourth geneva conventions so we don't need to even wait for what mr gun is so other u.n. officials have to say i have to say we can just listen to israeli officials like avigdor lieberman explaining the punitive and illegal intent of this blockade and as i mentioned and i stress this israeli officials themselves say one thing in

english to the international press and another thing in hebrew in english they're talking about all the scary things that might be on the ship with holocaust survivor heavy epstein in hebrew there briefing the cabinet that we have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of any threat coming from this split so mr katz's husband may may walk in far right wing circles in israel but it's it's why israel is in such a bad bind in terms of our oblate deploring public. and you completely should sex relations you just don't have when i want you guys like i don't ask you a question years and i ask you a question do you think that even fired at israeli said he will be honest if you think he's really dilatory will tell i'm sorry gentlemen his highness keep to see shells which keep this orderly here if i could ask you if the israeli government doesn't think that this photo is a threat do you think it will use military force to stop it in the next few days. i

think that israel israel plans to enforce the sea blockade over the gaza strip because if it allows the ships to sail freely into gaza first of all yes there is a chance that they are carrying weapons that they are carrying terrorist we saw that in last year's flotilla there were armed mercenaries aboard the much turkish passenger ship mavi marmara which lynch to try so he was really sold and israel holding this allows ocean to sail relieved because it was the best concerns and for the same to this experience he has his hands on these journeys of these rules were to allow these ships to sail into gaza then it would create a precedent that would then allow a ship like victoria which is several months ago tried to sail to gaza with the rainy and anti charedi. yes the fuel in the rain you may have brought up an interesting word precedent here and i think that's what everybody's looking at a precedent chris is this what the israelis are most afraid of ok is that the blockade will be broken if it's broke a broken once in a big p.r.

way they'll be no way for it to enforce it in the future. well peter if you want to unpack israeli paranoia and hysteria you should really be speaking to your cats mr kurtz and not to me but certainly i think that what he was talking about about the pines in terms of international p.r. that israel is in is a very interesting point because on the international stage israel is looking increasingly diligence in my eyes and again one can quote lieberman and other israeli officials one doesn't have to make an argument up it's all here and i think that this blockade and this flotilla that is in response to it i think is a real danger for israel's international reputation and so far israel is really floundering it showed it show no real response and i think convinces the world audience out there that it really is acting in a manner which is legitimate and it's the kind of behavior that one expects from a state and i think the fact that it still is in response to an illegal collective punishment considerably weakens on already weakens case right now and where your

last word in the program go ahead in chicago is where we go from here now ali you didn't say as much as everyone else go ahead. peter i think if we if we can obviously is really unfolds by chris and we look at the fact that ships have been carrying weapons to the gaza strip for holly go ahead jump in what you personally you know that israelis solid state has for us and it was just based journalism miracle well israel you know israel needs to end its occupation of blockade of the gaza strip it needs to end it needs to end its occupation and colonize ation and settlement of the west bank it needs to and that system has and use terminations to tell us the sentences are owners of israel all right gentlemen this is very much what i see from this. time many thanks to my guess in a jerusalem and in chicago and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time and remember cross talk will.

keep you. twenty years ago in the largest country. to certain places of. what had been known. to speak on a journey. where did it take the. emission

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