it's you know the the joplin missouri is of the world the katrina is the hurricanes the tornadoes i mean we're seeing it we're seeing texas on fire zone on to all of these things joplin aggressing none of these extra nowadays are being paid for by the welcome who's paying for all of. you and me now tell me what's right with this picture the oil companies make all the profits called internalizing the profits externalizing the costs there extra allies in all of the quests there saying ok you know the cancer's you guys you guys get to pay for the syrup pail and set alaska's oil was owned by alaska twenty five percent went to the state she was spending over she gave out over thirty two hundred dollars per citizen per year from around nine hundred when she was elected in june of two thousand and eight congressman reese when she proposed legislation that would nationalize all u.s. oil i think oil companies just the oil say all the ground oil under the ground that

we the people rasmussen this is the conservative polling organization in that month june sixteenth two thousand and eight came up this is the headline just forty seven percent oppose nationalizing oil twenty seven percent of all americans are in favor of nationalizing r.l. and twenty four percent between the two of them a majority are not sure i think frankly it's time to nationalize or to say like sarah palin did you know this is our oil we're going to take a chunk off the top and we're going to use that money to green the world. after the break the death penalty debate is heating up again in america as one state outlaws in another state a long star state creeps closer to causing an international incident with their death.

let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right. i think. even one well. whenever the government says they're very confused safe get ready if you can forgive your freedom. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so sleep you think you understand it and then you glimpse

something else hears you some other part of it and realized everything you thought you knew you don't know i'm sorry is a big issue. for . five.

what about the big picture i'm tom hartman coming up in this half hour state illinois pulls the plug on the death penalty the texas governor rick perry is pushing ahead with the execution of a mexican man who was denied his civil rights so the question remains in our nation to kill or not to kill plus should prison inmates in arizona be subject to shoe melting heat as part of their sentence if you're a show and so for the white collar criminals suffer in the same way and are we becoming one nation under. the tales of how atheists use independence day promote their anti-religious message and in the process all of the same religious tract. death row is closed for business new state law policy in the death penalty took

effect last week saving fifteen inmates from execution since two thousand there's been a moratorium on the death penalty in illinois after then governor george ryan called the system haunted by the demon of error because of how many times death row inmates convictions have been overturned illinois is now the fourth state to kill the death penalty in the last two years over thirty four states around the nation still use of the united states ranked fifth in the world in two thousand and nine and the number of people who were put to death right behind china iraq iran and saudi arabia it company a while illinois starts killing people texas governor rick perry loves it despite concerns from foreign diplomats judges the united nations president obama and even george w. bush governor perry is pushing full steam ahead with the execution of barito lee al garcia a mexican national who was convicted in one thousand nine hundred four of rape and murder the obama administration is warning texas garcia's execution will do

irreparable harm to the nation and break international laws because garcia was not given a right under the geneva convention to contact the mexican consulate when he was arrested the concern is that now americans may not have that right if they get arrested around the world so isn't the death penalty causing more problems than it solving in america today shouldn't other states take illinois lead and ditch death here to offer his take on the issue is bruce fein constitutional attorney and former deputy attorney general under president ronald reagan he's also the author of the book american empire before the fall bruce welcome thank you for inviting me nice to see a person and the times of the radio the northeastern united states has the lowest murder rate in the country and also the lowest rate of executions the smallest number of states we don't allow executions doesn't that blow apart any notion at all the there's a term. and so for the executions i think the evidence is inconclusive and i certainly wouldn't justify the death penalty on the argument that it has any

significant deterrent effect you still have other instrumental arguments i think one if you're a prisoner already under a life sentence without possibility of parole they can be then commit mayhem and there's no possibility of increasing the punishment to death second there have been instances i don't know if you're suppose that you're a prisoner where you've got a life sentence with no possibility of parole or in the prison you commit another homicides but why would you say that well aren't you can increase the sentence beyond life well what was the one possibility for our prisoners as they put them in solitary confinement that they could send they so they could as it was the supermax prison in kansas i mean there you know several hundred people who are in lifetime solitary confinement yes that's the possibility there is that other p.s.u. is whether or not just the threat of a death penalty will enable prosecutors to obtain confessions by some implicating others maybe even more in but that seems true have to have actually led to more false confessions but there is

a way people dress that and i've always been in favor of raising you certainly don't want to take a risk of convicting and sentencing someone to death who may be innocent but there is certainly circumstances in which that possibility can be eliminate you probably run side jack ruby kill the harvey oswald on television like three hundred million people did in those kinds of circumstances there's no risk that you're got the wrong person and i am not in favor of the death penalty just because these crimes are horrendous but i do think there are certain circumstances if you can contemplate perhaps the nuremberg defendants what are you going to do sends hermann goering will he committed suicide that khalid sheikh mohammad someone simply kadal has in total in jail that it has spent i mean get it together but he was not as implicated as herman goering was that energy level but let's take a look at the situation of khalid sheikh mohammed here's somebody who may go to trial if he's convicted of implication to make an. yes the being involved in killing three thousand americans we're going to sentence him to life in prison in

some sense by not having a death sentence reserved for the most heinous crimes you cheapen the deaths of those who perished in those circumstances knowing that we still have you you're not going to find a lot of nine eleven victims' families who disagree with you and be tim mcveigh who you know did pretty much the same thing just on a smaller scale was looking forward to die he didn't want to be alive in jail anymore but you know if he had to say that we are where we authorized that gary gilmore i think was the first one after these you supreme court cliche about me and he undertook the death sentence now i don't think that that's an encouragement to others to commit homicide because they will there's actually a school psychologist the suggests that it is the i know you know in other words we're talking to her if i you know but i think we're trying to be too clinical or gruesome motivations behind these people who say they are if even with a simple algorithm if the first law of humanity. that is in front of every every religion in the world and even people who scribed you know religion would be

the very first to say this is the first rule of the new mary is to not kill. why why what possible reason would we as a society want to kill because you're overlooking the fact it's a little bit like asking here human nagasaki without pearl harbor it is the response to express the moral more than with a moral reprehensible any of what was done in the first instance it's not the government doesn't go on pick people off the street and next to keep them it's because and i certainly believe you've got to have a trial gotta have due process you have to have security that's you know or excuse me you're quoting this with war no i'm just saying that it's wrong to just look at the public and we've had an isolation from not because of the the the sentence to be against but if if a life sentence in prison is actually more painful if our goal is retribution and if there's a possibility of rehabilitation if rehabilitation is our goal. i do i just.

i don't see any possible rationalization for a society that calls itself civilized to say we teach that it's wrong to kill but we're going to kill but i don't think that we're teaching bad it's wrong to kill without justification tom if i was attacking you you would have a right of self-defense to kill me that doesn't make you wrong you're not teaching society to kill because you defend your own life but society that is not a risk when this one when a person is convicted of. murder of this society you know there's a prison that you can put them i understand but the point is that simply by killing is not an automatic lesson in teaching this is sidey that killings ok self-defense is a clear example so you're speaking too broadly and moreover if everyone on death row really crave death over life sentences they'd all volunteer there wouldn't be any challenges to the death and say that's what we want to do it maybe well the some of the case no i decided but again i think if you were trying to figure out

a fairly gruesome and very painful one i can't imagine personally you know wanting to go through that. but it's still i think the biggest issue in the reason why you know it's like you know some of the saudi arabia you know who are still executing people most most developed countries around the world have said we're not going to do this anymore most states have said we know we had just new united states and seventy three was two hundred people who were on death row who were going to be put to death and found to be innocent when d.n.a. again that's one story raised that we're going to be yeah i would raise the standard of proof so that we don't do it the way we are now have the truth an absolute certainty we're going to do this because we're civilized but i'm saying that that net is not necessarily just so your mark of civilized people i do not believe if there is a trial and it's proven by confession or otherwise that khalid sheikh mohammed wanted in for dissipated in the killing of three thousand americans on nine eleven i don't think the death penalty shows that that's an uncivilized response to that

kind of savage behavior and that's that's where we're just going to have to undergo a disagreement because i i would say it is but. really appreciate your drought ok thanks guys to see. as much as i'd like to see the death penalty abolished that would only scratched the surface of the numerous problems with our judicial system i'll touch on this topic more intimate stealing take. yesterday was the fourth of july i do celebrate our nation's independence with fireworks barbecues and flashy red white and blue clothing or if you're one atheist organization a day to promote your godless agenda some of you may have noticed yesterday planes flying around the nation dragging banners that read god bless america and atheism is patriotic it was a message in stunt put on by atheists or a nationwide organization committed to curing civil rights for atheists and promoting the separation of church and state the group's president david sullivan

justified for the july campaign by saying the purpose of the banners is to highlight the fact that atheists are everywhere every parade in every beach in every state city and town atheism is alive and growing in the u.s. so this approach by atheists were the right way to convince americans to ditch organized religion are they just as guilty of proselytizing as any other organized religion or that religion rick when rove joins me now to discuss this issue is the virginia state director of near american atheists a recall from the program thank you thanks for joining us first of all i want to say very much share your goal of separation of church and state i think that the this is an important one but it seems to me that what you have done is created another church you know and for example when did you come to your. being saved by the religion of atheism. well model not loaded words in that question i'm a lifelong atheist and so i lost any tendency to believe in deities when i found

out santa claus wasn't real so seven years old maybe younger. what makes you so sure of your belief system. well. i read science or read things other than the bible and it seems obvious to me that the bronze age deities are obvious mythology but this was bad guesswork people who did not have science available to him were the body of work but beside which brought would not disagree with that and yet they still find solace in their religion and they find meaning in spirituality and encourage sagan for example very famous atheist i interviewed his rifle while back he he would have the sense of the mystery around looking through a telescope albert einstein talked about it we didn't believe in any particular deity that science or that religion is blind religion without science is dahmer

deaf or something in the exact boat that. it isn't possible to separate the religious experience from a spiritual ality of some i suppose but as far as proselytisation goes we're not proselytizing we're just making ourselves and you know in a very able to closeted atheists that want to come out and through. to the general atheist community so you know how is flying a banner with a plane with a banner that says god bless america in a different light a plane with a banner that says jesus saves well what we were trying to do it was a little bit of a coming out party for us we were reaching out to claus yes to let them know that we are a large and rapidly growing community and that it's not merely ok to come out as me it's really a good thing are you a nonprofit five one c three thing just like churches are yes so you're a nonprofit organization you've got a belief system. well pretty actually

a non belief system well no it's actually a belief system i mean the only the only real tenet we have is that we do not believe in the bronze age deities. they were in the christian god or any god but you know we can't you and i right now can't see t.v. waves and there's a lot of things that we we believe because we now see the effects of them but we could have used to detect t.v. would we do away we do and but two hundred years ago we did not have two hundred years ago you know we're having this conversation and i said you know someday you'll be able to see me in the other countries at it if you've got a crazy belief system how do you know i mean why i understand my you know my father was an atheist his entire life and i didn't know until a few months before he died but he never he it was never evangelical about it it was just you know he died this which gets pulled and and that was that

. why why the why the outreach why that what you know it sure looks like a religion well we're in countering a lot of. resistance that a lot of the hard push from the right from from the christian community claiming for instance this is a christian nation and. that's just not going to push back against that chorus is not a christian nation it is not a christian nation and our constitution guarantees that no religion will have any special status or special privileges that our constitution guarantees separation of church and state our constitution is a bar where we get the ocracy yes there's also the issue of what we're trying to do another set of that speaks to to saying that your belief system and i have to you know i have to say you know it. there are other people who would say they have detected spiritual person and you say you haven't been so well they haven't done it

with science but those are proper for all apocryphal generally perhaps they have or have science i don't expect if you want to get into into the subtleties of that i mean we're not actually seen each other or the retinas of our eyes or are converting photons into intellectual impulses that are being converted into chemical impulses in our brains or reassembling these things where you know we're not actually hearing things i mean every so how do you know anything as. well we just have to assume that we are actually here and that's my point you live in a you're material universe right that's ability really any point in assuming anything else. we are here i'm quite sure of it yeah. so. organized evangelical a belief system and you're not a church we're not sure you're not a religion we don't care about religion we have no tenets itself selecting two

people come to us we're in a break i salute your work on behalf of the separation of church and state thank you and you know i wish you well ok thanks for coming i think you just need to it's interesting to see atheists getting organized putting down the talents of their belief system assembling institutions and hierarchy in collecting money just like all the other organized religions. after the break inhumane prison conditions are rampant around the united states but it's a nice family take i'll tell you how we can restore human rights to the prison population lifespan.

let's not forget that we had an apartheid regime right. i think from a readable one well. we never government says the british can you say get ready because you know their freedom. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so you think you understand it and then you glimpse something else you hear see some other part of it and realize that everything you saw. on tarp is

a big. fat . crazy alert the ultimate eye witness among the other mysterious talents of pigeons researchers at the university of paris have discovered that those pesky birds don't forget people's faces the research team for two similar looking people had been

going to a park with pigeons one person would ignore the pigeons the other would chase them around and sure enough when the people return to the park the next day the pigeons knew exactly which person was the one terrorizing them and ran away from that person both people were of similar age build and skin color and both people switched clothes the next day meaning only factor the pigeon had to recognise them or their facial features of course people who are familiar with my take on pigeons shouldn't be surprised by this new study but they should be worried because now we know the robotic pigeons on the planet xenu can recognize us there's no hiding from whatever enough areas plots they're up to. our nation is addicted to throwing people in prison we have the highest incarceration rate in the developed world which if you ask me is pretty ironic as a distinction for the land of them free. and since we have an insatiable thirst for

locking people up we run into a little problem when it comes to having enough actual prisons to put people in which brings us to sheriff joe arpaio tent city prison in arizona now during jail incarcerating fourteen hundred nonviolent prisoners as you can imagine summers get pretty hot arizona and on saturday the temperature in our pios tent city prison shot up to an inhumane one hundred forty five degrees about ten degrees shy of being hot enough to cook an egg on a bench outside so what happens to our pios prisoners and the temperature spike is their backup facility people can be housed in where they can avoid heat stroke or go to for a few minutes every hour to cool down nope to beat the heat prisoners were given a six ounce cup of ice and told to get over it or pile him self with question about

the conditions of his prison to which he responded what am i going to do take him out of jail because it's too hot but inhumane conditions aren't exclusive to arizona they're just becoming the norm in a nation that strongly influenced by a private prison lobby the lobbies for longer and longer sentences for more and more minor crimes because they make more money every time a new person is thrown in jail or kept there longer just last month for example the united states supreme court ruled the prison system in california was inhumane because of overcrowding and his ruling conservative justice anthony kennedy described prisoners living quarters as telephone size cages without toilets and wrote a prison but deprives prisoners of basic sustenance including adequate medical care is incompatible with the concept of human dignity and has no place in civilized society. so there is

a prism it forces inmates to sit in one hundred forty five degree heat fit into a civilized society luckily for sheriff joe and the rest of the prison ox i have a way to solve their inhumane prisons problem let's throw some banks there's a corporate c.e.o.'s in the prison it'll do doing so. throw some some some of these c.e.o.'s and there's some of these bankers who brought on the work to do so is going to gentrify the prisons are pios tent city is filled with nonviolent but by and large blue collar criminals people who got smoking pot or stealing a slurpee at seven eleven yet today you can count on one hand the number of banks troops who are doing time for their role in stealing trillions of dollars in the middle class during the financial meltdown and even if they hammer does fall on some of these banks or in the future don't expect them to be doing time in our pios

tent city prison. this is just going to show up in our view we really do have a two tiered criminal justice system in the united states rich people by and large either get out get away with their crimes or they go to friendly places kind of mansions and poor people by and large go to pretty awful prisons that are getting more and more awful by the day as the private prison industry is out there building prisons and pain guards lousy and trying to move as many people through as possible but i can promise you the second we do start taking a hard line on corporate crime especially against c.e.o.'s who hire those illegal immigrants that give share of joe his purpose in life you will suddenly see prison conditions or rack illicitly improve. just as run down city blocks crippled by crime and poverty are gentrified with you high rise condos and high class steak houses let's gentrify our prisons with corporate executives then maybe we can get

some air conditioning in our tent city and twilights for the inmates in california after all our banks need their amenities. as a big picture person i for more information on the stories we covered this is our web sites of child hartman dot com free speech dot org and our team dot com also check out our two youtube channels there are links to thom hartmann dot com entire shows also available as a free video podcast on i tunes and we have a free time our of an i phone and i pad app at the app store you can send us feedback at twitter at tom underscore arbonne on facebook at tom underscore on our blogs message boards and telephone comment lines all listed over time or of a dot and don't forget the mocker see begins with you get out there and get active tag your it will see them are.

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