video. just for you. welcome back it was from moscow here's a look at the top stories japanese police arrest a gang of suspected looters thought to be targeting homes and of a human nuclear evacuation zone meanwhile there is concern over the health of those living in the area with more than half the children they're testing positive for radiation. russia has released a previously confidential index of people and groups thought to be involved in or funding terrorism in the country the list contains names of foreigners and international islamized organizations operating in the north caucasus. and new

sexual assault charges against war i.m.f. chief dominique strauss kahn are filed in france as a new york case against him falls apart french riders as she was attacked a decade ago by strauss kahn's lawyers say it slander and. next looks to lebanon and to whether the political and military group has ball is finding its reputation bolstered by being more closely linked to murder. can you. live. alone and welcome the cross-talk i'm peter lavelle the united nations tribunals has indicted some members of the lebanese shia movement hezbollah for the assassination of the former lebanese prime minister is this special tribunal looking for justice or is it a tool

a campaign to take advantage of the country's deep political divisions and is lebanon the ultimate loser in this legal process. can. still live. to cross-talk live announced trial i'm joined by how a job are in beirut she's a british lebanese journalist and author in jerusalem we cross all makes arun he is a writer for commentary magazine and in cairo we have mona evade she is a professor at the american university in cairo ok folks cross talk was in effect but first let's have a show report on the tribunals findings today. these ago a united nations tribunal delivered its long awaited indictment before hezbollah officials in lebanon accused of assassinating the country's former prime minister rafik hariri and a roadside bomb six years ago the indictments now risk reigniting sectarian violence in a country already rattled by decades of bloodshed and these political establishment

now faces a tricky challenge to find a compromise that both honors its international obligations and prevents a dangerous political split with a shiite has a belong with men currently enjoying great political clout and lebanon but that's where we are today in front of a new reality the quest and wise approach putting the supreme interest of the country civil peace our national unity and knowing the truth above all concerns ever since it was opened in two thousand and nine the u.n. tribunal has divided the country along a sectarian lines for the sunni it has represented a chance of serving justice in the murder of a prominent sunni leader meanwhile hezbollah and its constituents have denounced the tribunal as an american israel a conspiracy to foment civil unrest and sabotage the group itself and. we reject everything from the tribunals including its face indictments and false judgments we will not allow it to drag living on toward strife or civil war. and

earlier this year hezbollah brought down the u.s. backed government of late prime minister son saw her eerie when several of its members withdrew from the cabinet in defiance of the investigation suspicion of involvement of these us nation has also fallen on shit syria one of has of the us key allies and patrons on the syria to deny disconnection with the killing the accusation led to mass protests that ended syria's decades long military presence in the country syria like libya is part of an alliance and that iran's is very wide it begins in iran some elements in iraq's government are part of the syrian regime has one on love and on hamas in gaza. some experts warn that if syria becomes too embroiled in the investigation and i'll break of sectarian violence in lebanon will be almost unavoidable and especially alarming prospect given the spike in the sunni share clashes of the arab spring presently lebanese authorities have less than

a month to execute their arrest warrants and hezbollah leader hassan nasrallah has sworn retribution for anyone who tries to get us russia trying a across our team. ok let me go to you first since here in beirut this is been going on a long time and there's a number of people that are accused of this crime it happened in two thousand and five first it was being framed on the syrians a number of men were held they were lit released then we hear it's hezbollah then people say it's around and then there are others that will say it's israel i mean is it gotten down to he said she said because there's a lot of people that can test a lot of the evidence in this case and there are many people expression in lebanon they don't trust the tribunals so who dunnit. that's the one million question dollar who who did what right from the beginning the investigation started on false grounds or wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. it was it was amazing when i was watching

it to see for example at the time that within minutes within minutes of the explosion that killed former prime minister hariri the finger of accusation immediately went to syria and not just from lebanon but you know within hours the entire world followed suit and without any evidence without any proof without any anything at the time you know syria was being the prime so syria was looked at seen as the prime suspect and was used as such and events followed after that and syria continued to be accused for many years and then suddenly out of the blue that changed and i think it was pointed at hezbollah. now even in the early days you know before the tribunal was ever involved here. if you want the locals that were investigating the case i mean there were there were there was evidence tampering. removed when they shouldn't have been ruled from the from the scene of from the scene of crime. it was not sealed off within seconds and then dealt with properly

there's been a lot of you know information over the years about various pieces of evidence that have appeared here and other. but have not been looked into proper properly but were. you know missed investigated at the time and then looked at again so the whole thing about the. former prime sort of. has been marred with problems right from right from the minutes after hearing he died all right i'm referring to you in jerusalem is this a legal farce speakers i've heard these arguments or for that to be evidence is tainted now in fingers were pointed so early i mean is this really just a different agenda at play i guess really what i'm trying to say go ahead. well i mean we we should we should distinguish between a couple of things the first is just because it was obvious from the start what kind of coalition was behind the murder doesn't mean that once all of the evidence

was assembled that that evidence was wrong we most crimes the vast majority of crimes we have a general sense of who done it and then the job of investigators and subsequently the prosecutors is to work through the rule of law in order to demonstrate that the initial intuitions were correct so just because fingers were pointed early is no evidence that the fingers weren't pointed correctly and in fact one of the reasons that fingers are pointed so early is because there was plenty of motive for syria and for their allies in lebanon to commit the murder and another reason is that it bore the hallmarks of the kinds of hits that we know syrian security officials have committed against lebanon lebanese officials they attempted to resist syrian rule of lebanon so just because fingers were pointed early doesn't mean that they were wrong and it doesn't mean that there weren't good reasons for it now as to the substance of the investigation i think it's way too early to be talking about evidence that was tampered with the evidence that was removed from the scene all of

that is until it's presented at trial rumor margaret and the international community has called upon lebanon and the new lebanese government under prime minister mcclatchy to launch an investigation and then to serve the arrest warrants the questions of evidence are questions for trial not questions for rumor mongering and i'm confident that an international tribunal an international investigation from the netherlands which worked as long as it did has all of its ducks in a row and will see that the trial ever should be a trial of a merchant oh man i think we don't i mean there's i don't want to listen a lot of rumor mongering about this mona feingold do you trust this tribunals. do i trust this tribe. not really no but i want to say here is one of the biggest mistakes was to remove said heavy duty as a prime minister he is the only one who could have judged this so thing in a balanced way because he might have just pardoned you know not to really pardon

the s.s. ns but at least let go of this sort of thing which is very divisive and the evidence could become a flashpoint down the road these things become more tense so while it is gun in lebanon today that's i've been finding is going to easily be exploited in a much more emotive way and we're already have these tensions between the sunnis and shias so ideally if things are only one who could have saved the day would have been prime minister's son teddy and not minister mikati it's a heavy burden on his you know how are you going to hold here because it's very interesting point was brought up here and i think it's like the eight hundred pound gorilla in the corner all the time is it what do we juggle here what's most important stability or justice because we've got not my car to me today on this program a few seconds ago stability versus justice and can we find

a compromise between the polls. you can't have sure you can't have justice you can't have justice without stability an account of stability without justice however going back a few things i mean just because saad hariri is prime minister or not you know the case is still there whether his promise or not he was not removed his cabinet or his government was voted out of confidence. as for the earlier guest who said you know about of all the evidence i will come through and obviously some of the thousands and was being you know was being discovered over the years for the more you know it surprised that she says or he says that the finger you know pointed to syria meaning that because syria was in town and had other similar. incidents in lebanon that that means automatically it is it is it is the culprits but it but it trees to mention all the things from mention that israel and also there are there are there are hidden marks but are also the same as other attacks that were carried

out in assassinations that were carried out in lebanon over the years by israel by israeli secret services almost that's just me and the fact that there is resistance to best just going through the military isn't true and the fact that israel can benefit out of this and was never even suspect is actually begs the question in lebanon where the prisoners ok. let's go to jerusalem there's been trouble you mean you're only going here just really answer go ahead and let's let's let's let's deal with both of those charges very very early the first charge is that the attack or the hallmarks of the messiah you know we did mossad home are simply confirmation of the killed lots of agents targeted a single person. specific kinds of and most when the mossad allegedly killed. in syria that was one person when they killed. when they gave the army who here in dubai there was a good one person it's not the case now there are people who will say. the fact

that this didn't bear the hallmarks of a messiah here but rather than. the hallmarks of a syrian hit was the massage attempts to make it look like syria did it ok listen if the argument is that it's them aside when it looks like them aside and it's them aside when it doesn't look like them aside then that's not an argument that can be answered that's that is the essence of an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory the second charge which is that israel benefited is an absurd charges are all did not benefit by putting his bala by eliminating his ball as opposition and eliminating syria's op and eliminating syria's opposition now it could be that gentleman right there or would you continue later this hour a short break walk through a short break we'll continue our discussion on the u.n. tribunals for levanon state with r.t. .

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welcome back to cross talk i'm peter all about to mind you were talking about the un investigation of the killing of a former lebanese prime minister. to take. ok mona i'd like to go to you again another issue that's being brought up in this program is that who benefits the most from this crime ok and there's so many different variations here some people say it's the israelis the americans other say it's syria certain factions within lebanon of course has blocked you know logically in your mind who benefited from this why it was done. those who benefited is those who go into one to see a stable lebanon and this has been going on for twenty five years and we don't know who it is but we know at the same time that there are people who can be held responsible. until now we don't know who are the read people who are and this bunch

of it is possible that there are other indictments identifying individuals in other countries and that's what we were trying to say area there has been speculation that syria could be shrewd with men but it's not clear. that our speculation is that israel could be indicted also so nothing is clear but what i want to see is that beyond lebanon and syria this is a global judicial process and doesn't only belong to levanon because they flip it on does not address the thought or his will or take this if they are indicted then tensions with the international community could arise and action could escalate on a soft trajectory and then maybe we could justify what has was saying that the tribunal is completely politicized instrument of the united states and israel but nobody wants to have a six head in war in lebanon and that's the main point. we should see also what is

a little a subset a b.s. in salute ok jump in there go ahead and we're going to move on to that seems a little bit. seems a little bit over the top to save it because lebanon doesn't need its international obligations because hizbollah won't let it but that's evidence that it's an american israeli part seems like it's a hizbollah plot to destabilize lebanon and to undermine the obligations that lebanon has been placed under by the international community there was a resolution the resolution passed there was a prosecutor with an investigation the investigation concluded it's hardly fair to blame anyone other than the people stopping the investigation and let's not forget what we heard in the introduction which is that the last government brought was. down over the government's refusal to disavow the hurried trade you know the government was broke his ball of brought down the government because the government failed was meeting its international obligations it's ok it was new to me please because he believes it is a lot of people would say this is part of the plan to destabilize lebanon i think

all of us would agree that this is what's going to happen and why and who's behind it is totally different go ahead i'll go ahead i think i think i think as an observer as a journalist i've been covering this country even though i've been nice but i live abroad for many years and you know i can i can i can say that if hezbollah or any other faction for that matter that i don't want to destabilize the country they can has been one of the factors and i've been on so far and i'm sorry if people disagree but that's a thought on the ground that has made sure that this that the state you know that this country continues to be stabilized and refuses to participate and i sectarian war or conflict or to cause this that is ation and and i've been on. down here government let me. know free you know. the government learn to let me learn to love my nonvoters and what of no confidence like any other country can because it does have some form of a democratic system and then routed and then do the government down there and it's

as simple as that you know i'm not going to have a one hundred families all if you like the respect i am nearing its end you say has bought up brought down the government i mean when you look at any particular government has the lies about two members and that's not what i'm saying doesn't even it doesn't even happen in a surety in a government or an isolated so it can i just want to hear i'd like to go to mona there's there's one interesting scenario out there is nature and i'm not going to point a finger at anyone right here but there are some people in the in the region and i'll be honest something about israel are very pleased to see that lebanese are squabbling among themselves because they don't want to see another. war with hezbollah because of the. has the lies been very very careful and i expanding its influence in the country in maintaining its grassroots stronghold which it has i mean it does have a lot of popularity in lebanon that something that would bother the israelis and throw in the mix what's going on in syria. city has to hire is now in her.

you know in the international issues. and that's why she just it's serious giving him distance from the details of the indictment if you noticed . so the government is obviously both has the must just clear list supporters of the current government so it is obviously present politically but it will try to be as far away from the discussion about the war on terror as possible syria says this is an internal lebanese issue and if any syrians out and i did they would be dealt with internally that's what syria says now many other countries as you said maybe. not have been better. not on had he. has let me go let me go let me go back to beirut let me go back to the would i want

one of the thinking given this era that we live in now called the arab spring and i'm thinking about libyan planes like that yeah you think. hollowing are you worried about are you worried that if the current government in in lebanon doesn't . fulfill the execution of these these warrants here it will be used as a pretext for regime change or pressure on the regime and try to isolate the current political elite in lebanon i mean that seems to be the flavor of the moment now in dealing with dealing with political change in the greater middle east what do you think if it's difficult to say regime change in lebanon because lebanon contra you know in contrast to say syria and egypt and libya you know where they were ruled by a one man one party scenario lebanon is not is not the case so it's very hard to apply regime change in lebanon as such you know you have governments governments going governments come people with no confidence now the new government is because his governments down the line i mean there is an attempt as we speak and then there . three days and they declared it the march fourteenth if you want the opposition

at the moment said that it aims to bring down this particular government and they're in session for the next three days starting today. in parliament to see whether they would vote for or against now the likelihood is that they will not be able to bring it out on this round but they could do that you know maybe another time. the fact of the matter is you know there won't be as. you know it's because i mean spring revolutions that are happening around the world we must we must be very careful not to stereotype them all as the same you know each country is different you know with its own with its own characteristics and its own systems and they apply accordingly you cannot take one and apply it to the rest of the region it doesn't work as well as we've seen i mean frankly you it looks very likely they'd be lebanese government isn't going to give up these four people who've been indicted what do you think the result should be is that i mean what kind of message does that send and i'm not asking you to speak for israel but how do you think media will react to it. sure i mean. i think that israel will take it in stride the

same way that lebanon will take it in stride the same way that the region will take it in stride nobody expects the hezbollah government which before they control the government when they were merely the opposition to when they were merely a coalition partner said that they would cut off the hands of anybody who tried to arrest anybody indicted by the internationally sanctioned prosecutor investigation so the question is not whether or not we're going to hand him over but what in lebanon will do for and i think that on this issue probably is the only issue that the panelists agree which is that there is no taste in lebanon for sectarian conflict and if there was a case for sectarian conflict and this is what the other panelist won't say but is the fact that the march fourteenth movement would get that would lose his ball as would the u.s. trained lebanese armed forces would lose to his ball his ball is just the most powerful militia and most powerful military force if you will in lebanon and so the country is going to roll with it because nobody can do anything else it's an

interesting way of mana when what do you think about i mean he gets a lot of media coverage there's a lot of hype everybody wants to keep the peace go ahead. absolutely and you know we already as it can have i personally think that there could be tensions with the international community. as this as i said is a global tradition of process it's not only limited to living on and syria and we already saw the movement us to wreak i think in the u.s. congress which wanted to stop military aid to lebanon so this is development that will impact on our many steps the other thing is i'm wondering why you didn't ask about the role of saudi arabia i think saudi arabia has quite an important role to play and i think it was although it was very unhappy when the highway to government was failed this earlier this year. it's clearly started to lead

in on its allies in lebanon not to escalate the situation against syria because so did a viewer is one of the countries that certainly doesn't want the speed of the arab spring to spreads that's a very good point. how is michael if i can ask you i mean it's quite interesting here and we're in this program we've seen that how lebanon remains just a pawn of so many other countries and we can name the white if you will to me it's been mentioned here i mean is lebanon strong enough politically its political establishment to make sure it doesn't become victim of outside forces to stir up these troubles that we've seen over the last few decades i think many years ago before during you know during the civil war and before the civil war that was the case and yes many factions in lebanon have various if you want support from from from from other countries or allies in other countries however i think lebanon also has come a long way from from those days of you know when they went on the street and took

to the gun it's a different generation and you just have to go around and realize that this kind of generation at the moment is not interested. and taking up arms and fighting each other now yes every now and then they go on the street and then shot them scream and demonstrate and then my books and kick kick kick kick each other a little bit but that's about as far as it goes there's no intention by anybody to let you know to allow lebanon or war but more important more importantly he's just one more thought as you know everyone is going and again you know these these are not things one you know not not everyone says. hezbollah for example does not want for this for this you know prosecution for to go ahead now there is that this is like the first year of confusion right from the beginning has well i was part and parcel of this and it was part of the government i'm sorry we've run out of time i like to thank. many thanks to my guests today in jerusalem cairo and in beirut and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r t c next time and remember.

keep. walking.

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