the global economy is causing reports on our t.v. watchers that so much in a big huge decision. to mark the united nations tribunals he's indicted some members of the liberty she has pulled off the assassination of former lebanese prime minister. it's now a half past the hour here in moscow you with art see a quick summary now of the headlines japanese police arrest a gang of suspected militants thought to be targeting homes in the fukushima nuclear evacuation zone meanwhile there's concern over the health of those living in the area with more than half of the children bad testing positive for radiation . pressure is released a previously confidential index of people and groups thought to be involved in all funding terrorism in the country the list contains names of foreigners and international islamic organizations operating in the north caucasus. and

a new if sexual assault charges against a former i.m.f. chief dominique strauss kahn are filed in france as the new york case against him falls apart a french writer says she was attacked a decade ago but strauss kahn's lawyers say it's slander and they will see. more of what i do stay with us here at c next it's cross talk and it's time the guest will be looking into lebanon and whether the political and military group hezbollah is finding its reputation bolstered by being more closely linked some murder this is a party. you can. follow and welcome the crosstalk i'm peter lavelle a united nations tribunals has indicted some members of the lebanese shia movement

has pulled off the assassination of a former lebanese prime minister is this special tribunal looking for justice or is it a tool is attempting to take advantage of the country's deep political divisions and is lebanon the ultimate loser in this legal process. can. still live. crosstalk lebanon's trial i'm joined by our job are in beirut she's a british lebanese journalist and author in jerusalem we cross all make seran he is a writer for commentary magazine and in cairo we have mona evades she is a professor at the american university in cairo ok folks crosstalk rules in effect but first let's have a show report on the tribunals findings today. days ago a united nations tribunal delivered its long awaited indictment before hezbollah officials in lebanon accused of assassinating the country's former prime minister rafik hariri and a roadside bomb six years ago the indictments now risk reigniting sectarian

violence in a country already rattled by decades of bloodshed and these political establishment now faces a tricky challenge it needs to find a compromise that both honors its international obligations and prevents a dangerous political split with a shiite has along with many currently enjoying great political clout and lebanon but that's where we are today in front of a new reality that request a wise approach putting the supreme interest of the country peace our national unity and knowing the truth concerns ever since it was opened in two thousand and nine the year one tribe you know has divided the country along a sectarian lines for the sunni it has represented a chance of serving justice in the murder of a prominent sunni leader meanwhile hezbollah and its constituents have denounced the tribunal as an american israeli conspiracy to foment civil unrest and sabotage the group itself. we reject everything from the tribunals including its faults

indictments and false judgments we will not allow it to drive lebanon toward strife or civil war. and earlier this year hezbollah brought down the u.s. backed government of late prime minister son her eerie when several of its members were there from the cabinet and defiance of the investigation suspicion of involvement of the sus nation has also fallen on shiite syria one of hezbollah's key allies and patrons syria to deny disconnection with the killing the accusation led to mass protests that ended syria's decades long military presence in the country syria like libya is part of an alliance and that i answer is very wide it begins in iran some elements in iraq's government are part of the syrian regime has one on love and on how in gaza. some experts warn that if syria becomes too embroiled in the investigation and now break of sectarian violence in lebanon will be almost unavoidable and especially alarming prospect given the spike in the sunni

share clashes of the arab spring presently lebanese authorities have less than a month to execute their arrest warrants and hezbollah leader hassan nasrallah has sworn retribution for anyone who tries to do this moshe charney across our team. ok to go to you first since here in beirut this is been going on a long time and there's a number of people that are accused of this crime that happened in two thousand and five first it was being brained on the syrians a number of men were held they were lit released then we hear it's hezbollah then people say it's around and then there are others that will say it's israel i mean is it gotten down to he said she said because there's a lot of people that contest a lot of the evidence in this case and there are many people expression in lebanon they don't trust the tribunals so who dunnit. that's the one million question dollar. who did what right from the beginning the investigation started on false

grounds or wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. it was it was amazing when i was watching it to see for example of the time that within minutes within minutes of the of the explosion that killed on former prime minister hariri the finger of accusation immediately went to syria and not just from lebanon but you know within hours the entire world followed suit and without any evidence without any proof without any anything of the time you know syria was being the prime so syria was looked at seen as the prime suspect and was accused of such and events followed after. syria continued to be accused for many years and then suddenly out of the blue that changed and the finger was pointed at has a lot. even in the early days you know before the tribunal was ever involved here. if you want the locals that were investigating the case i mean there were there was evidence tampered with removed when they should have been ruled from the scene of

from the scene of crime. it was not sealed off within seconds and then dealt with properly there's been a lot of you know information over the years about various pieces of evidence that appeared here and other. that have not been looked into proper properly that were. you know missed investigated at the time and then looked at again so that the whole thing about their feet. from a promise of a courier was assassinated. has been marred with problems right from right from the minute. he died all right i'm referring to you in jerusalem is this a legal farce speakers i've heard these arguments reported to be evidence is tainted now in fingers were pointed so early i mean is this really just a different gender play i guess really what i'm trying to say go ahead. well i mean we we should we should distinguish between a couple of things the first is just because it was obvious from the start what

kind of coalition was behind the murder doesn't mean that once all of the evidence was assembled that that evidence was wrong we ate most crimes the vast majority of crimes we have a general sense of who done it and then the job of investigators and subsequently the type of prosecutors is to work through the rule of law in order to demonstrate that the initial intuitions were correct so just because fingers were pointed early is no evidence that the fingers weren't pointed correctly and in fact one of the reasons that fingers are pointed so early is because there was plenty of motive for syria and for their allies in lebanon to commit the murder and another reason is that it bore the hallmarks of the kinds of hits that we know syrian security officials have committed against lebanon lebanese officials attempted to resist syrian rule of lebanon so just because fingers were pointed early doesn't mean that they were wrong and it doesn't mean that there weren't good reasons for it now as to the substance of the investigation i think it's way too early to be talking

about evidence that was tampered with evidence that was removed from the scene all of that is until it's presented a trial rumor margaret and the international community has called upon lebanon and the new lebanese government under prime minister mikati to launch an investigation and then to serve the arrest warrants the questions of evidence are questions for trial not questions for rumor mongering and i'm confident that an international tribunal an international investigation from the netherlands which worked as long as it did has all of its ducks in a row and will see that the trial ever should be a trial of a merchant oh my i think wait a minute think we all i mean it is i don't want to live in a lot of mood rumormongering about this moment if i know do you trust this tribunals. do i trust the struggle. not really know what i want to see here is one of the biggest mistakes was to remove heavy duty as

a prime minister he is the only one who could have juggled this so thing in a balanced way because he might just but didn't you know not really pardon the s.s. ns but at least let go of this sort of thing which is very divisive and the evidence could become a flashpoint down the road if things become more tense so while it is gone in lebanon today this i didn't findings can easily be exploited in a much more emotive way and we're already has these tensions between the sunnis and shias so ideally if things are only one who could have saved the day would have been prime ministers levy and not minister mukherjee it's a heavy burden on his you know how are you going to hold here because it's very interesting point was brought up here and i think it's like the eight hundred pound gorilla in the corner all the time is that what we juggle here what's most important stability or justice because we've already got that dichotomy today on

this program a few seconds ago stability versus justice and can we find a compromise between the both. you can't have justice you can't have justice without stability an account of civility without justice however going back a few things i mean just because saad hariri is prime minister or not you know the case is still there whether he's promised or not he was not removed his cabinet or his government was altered out of confidence. as for the earlier guest who said you know about all the evidence i will come through and obviously some of the tiles and was being you know was being discovered over the years furthermore you know it's surprise that she says or he says that the finger you know pointed to syria meaning that because syria was in town and had other sen. incidents in lebanon that that means automatically it is it is it is the culprits but it but it treats the mansion or the place to mention that israel also there are there are there are hidden marks

that are also the same as other attacks that were carried out in assassinations that were carried out in lebanon over the years. israeli secret service is almost that's just me i mean there's been the fact that there is resistance to this just untrue the military is untrue and the fact that israel can benefit out of this and was never even suspect is actually begs the question in lebanon where. it is ok let's have a bulldozer let's go to jerusalem there's with you mean you know mary snow here just really answer go ahead let's let's let's let's deal with both of those charges very very early the first charge is that the attack or the hallmarks of them aside you know we did homeworks include confirmation of the killed lots of agents targeted a single person in the include specific kinds of ammos when the my son allegedly killed. in syria that was one person when they killed. when they did the almost

two years in dubai it was aimed at one person it's not the case now there are people who say that the fact that this given period of hallmarks of a messiah here but rather than. the hallmarks of a syrian hit was the messiah's attempts to make it look like syria did it ok listen if the argument is that it's the my side when it looks like the my side and it's the messiah when it doesn't look like the messiah then that's not an argument that can be answered that's that is the essence of a non-fossil fiber conspiracy theory the second charge which is that israel benefited is an absurd charge israel did not benefit by putting his bala by eliminating his call as opposition and eliminating syria's up and eliminating syria's opposition now it could be a gentleman right here only to continue later when times are a short break with the short break we'll continue our discussion on the u.n. tribunals for later on stage with r.t. .

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agency free risk free. types free. old free broadcast quality video for your media projects for free to our tom. plate you can. welcome back to cross talk on peter lavelle truman show we're talking about the u.n. investigation of the killing of a former lebanese prime minister look ok. ok mona i'd like to go to another issue that's being brought up in this program is that who benefits the most from this crime ok and there's so many different variations here some people say it's the israelis and the americans others say it's

syria certain factions within lebanon of course has you know logically in your mind who benefited from this why it was done. those who benefited is those who see a stable lebanon and this has been going on for twenty five years and we don't know who it is but we know at the same time that there are people who can be held responsible. we don't know who are the really people just bunch of it is possible that there are other indictments identifying individuals in other countries and that's what we were trying. there's been speculation that syria could be should with men but it's not clear. speculations that israel could be indicted also so nothing is clear but what i want to see is that beyond lebanon and syria this is a great addition gross's that doesn't only belong to levanon because if lebanon

does not address the fortress if his goal a status if they are indicted then tensions with international community could arise and action could escalate on a soft project and then maybe we could justify what hezbollah is saying that the tribunal is completely politicized instrument of the united states and israel but nobody wants to have a sectarian war in lebanon that's the main points. we should see also what is a little or some here a b.s. in salute ok jump in there go ahead i'm going to move on to that seems a little bit seems a little bit over the top to save it because lebanon doesn't meet its international obligations because hizbollah won't let it but that's evidence that it's an american israeli clar it seems like it's a hizbullah plot to destabilize lebanon and to undermine the obligations that lebanon has been placed under by the international community there was a resolution the resolution passed there was a prosecutor was an investigation the investigation concluded it's hardly fair to

blame anyone other than the people stopping the investigation and let's not forget what we heard in the introduction which is that the last government was brought. down over the government's refusal to disavow the really tried you know the government was brought to his ball of brought down the government because the government failed was meeting its international obligations it's ok for you but you know for me please please please use it means a lot of people would say this is part of a plan to destabilize lebanon i think all of us would agree that this is what's going to happen why and who is behind it is totally different go ahead i'll go ahead i think i think i think as an observer as a journalist and i've been covering this country even though i'm getting is that i live abroad for many years and i. you know i can i can i can say that if hezbollah or any other faction for that matter haven't wanted to destabilize the country they can has been one of the factors and loving them so far and i'm sorry if people disagree but that's a fact on the ground that has made sure that this state you know that this country

continues to be stabilized and refuses to call it spades and i sectarian war or conflict or to cause this that is ation and and lebanon. governments lebron should. you know the number one job in the government learned let alone lebanon voters everyone of no confidence like any other country can because it does have some form of the democratic system and then go out and them do the government there and it's as simple as that you know and one who has been one hundred percent is holy you know the worst i mean it's amazing how you say has my love brought down the government i mean when you look at any particular government has been lies about two members and that's not what i'm saying doesn't even it doesn't even have a surety in our government i still don't know it can i just leave them on here i'd like to go to mona there's there's one interesting scenario out there is that and i'm not going to point a finger at anyone right here but there are some people in the in the region i'll

be honest something about israel are very pleased to see that the lebanese are probably among themselves because they don't want to see another. war with hezbollah because of the. has belies been very very careful in expanding its influence in the country and maintaining its grassroots stronghold which it has i mean it does have a lot of popularity in lebanon that something that would bother the israelis and throw in the mix what's going on in syria. city has to hire is now in her. you know in the international issues. and that's why she said yes keeping a distance from the details of the indictment if you notice. so the government is obviously of has the most cause kidney supporters go learn the current government so it is obviously present politically but it will try to be as far away from the discussion about the war on terrorists as possible syria says

this is an internal lebanese issue and if any syrians are in they did they would be dealt with internally that's what syria says now many other countries as you said may be. better. not under head being. let me go let me go let's go back to beirut let me go back to beirut i want one of the thinking given this area that we live in now called the arab spring and i'm thinking about libya and things like that yeah you think that. following are you worried about are you worried that if the current government in in lebanon doesn't. fulfill the execution of these these warrants here it will be used as a pretext for regime change or pressure on the regime in trying to isolate the current political elite in lebanon i mean that seems to be the flavor of the moment now in dealing with dealing with political change in the greater middle east where

you think it's it's difficult to say regime change in lebanon because lebanon contra you know in contrast to say syria. egypt and libya you know where they were ruled by a one man one party scenario lebanon is not is not the case so it's very hard to apply regime change in lebanon as such you know you have governments governments go and governments come they with no confidence now the new government is because his governments down the line i mean there is an attempt as we speak and then there. three days and they declared it the march fourteenth if you want the opposition at the moment said it's aims to bring down this particular government and they're in session for the next three days starting today. in parliament to see whether they would vote for or against now the likelihood is that they will not be able to bring it out on this round but they could do that you know maybe another time. fact of the matter is you know there won't be as. you know it's because i mean spring revolutions that are happening around the world we must we must be very careful not

to stereotype them all as the same you know each country is different you know with its own with its own characteristics and its own systems and they apply accordingly you cannot take one and apply it to the rest of the region it doesn't work as well as we've seen i mean if i go to you it looks very likely that the lebanese government isn't going to give up these four people who've been indicted what do you think the result should be is that i mean what kind of message does that send and i'm not asking you to speak for israel but how do you think media will react to it. sure i mean. i think that israel will take it in stride the same way that lebanon will take it in stride the same way that the region will take it in stride nobody expects the hizbullah government which before they controlled the government when they were merely the opposition and when they were merely a co coalition partner said that they would cut off the hands of anybody who tried to arrest anybody indicted by the internationally sanctioned prosecutor investigation so the question is not whether or not they're going to hand him over but what in lebanon will do for and i think that this issue probably is the only

issue that the panelists agree which is that there is no taste in lebanon for sectarian conflict and if there was a case for sectarian conflict and this is what the other panelist won't say but is the fact that the march fourteenth movement would get that would lose his ball as would the u.s. trained lebanese armed forces would lose to his ball his ball is just the most powerful militia the most powerful military force if you will in lebanon and so the country is going to roll with it because nobody can do anything else and it's an interesting way of mana when what do you think about that i mean it's a lot of media coverage there's a lot of hype but i mean everybody wants to keep the peace go ahead. absolutely and you know we already as it can have i personally think that there could be tensions with the international community. as this as i said is a global tradition a process that's not only limited to living on and syria and we already saw the movement us to eat i think in the u.s. congress which wanted to stop military aid to lebanon so this is development that

will impact on the many steps the other thing is i'm wondering why you didn't ask because the role of saudi arabia i think saudi arabia has quite an important role to play and i think it was although it was very unhappy when they had a government who was failed this earlier this year. it's clearly started to lean on its allies in lebanon not to escalate the situation against syria because so did a b a is one of the countries that certainly doesn't want the arabs of the arab spring to spreads that's a very good point. though mike and if i can ask you i mean it's quite interesting here we're in this program we've seen that how lebanon remains just a pawn of so many other countries and we can name them are quite a few of them may be mentioned here i mean is lebanon strong enough politically its

political establishment to to make sure it doesn't become victim of outside forces to stir up these troubles that we've seen over the last few decades i think many years ago before you know during the civil war and before the civil war that was the case and yes many factions in lebanon have various if you want support from from from from other countries or allies in other countries however i think lebanon also has come a long way from the from those days of you know when they went on the street and took her to the gun it's a different generation and you just have to go around and realize that this kind of generation at the moment is not interested. and taking up arms and fighting each other now yes every now and then they go on the street and then shot them screamin and demonstrates and then my box of kick kick kick kick each other a little bit but that's about as far as it goes there's no intention by anybody to let you know to allow lebanon into war but more importantly more importantly he's just one more thought as you know everyone is going and again you know these these

are not things one you know not not everyone says. hezbollah for example does not want for this for this you know prosecution to to go ahead now there's a slight difference your confusion right from the beginning has well i was part and parcel of this and it was part of the government i'm sorry we. don't like to think the rest of our panelists are many thanks my guest today in jerusalem cairo and in beirut and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are keep to next time and remember. to keep. the.

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